John A: Team needs a vocal leader

[MilfordHusky]

Mel published a book that part of the content said C Houston was purposefully resisting the scheme Geno was implementing. This sort of thing happens on teams.

I think it was more that Charde was unable to do things, rather than her exerting effort not to follow Geno's guidance.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I think this is Caroline's role. She has the tough personality for it. She is also the senior player, along with Tiffany, and is more outgoing than Tiff or Kelly. Bria certainly has the competitiveness, so she may emerge. Kaleena seems to be deferring to others, but she is more than capable of doing it. As we've seen before, this group may be "too nice." They need a different personna on the court.

Regarding Renee, I am reminded of something Geno said before her first season (paraphrasing): "She walks around Gampel as if she own the place." Renee was never one to be shy about anything.

 

[UConnCat]

Regarding Renee, I am reminded of something Geno said before her first season (paraphrasing): "She walks around Gampel as if she own the place." Renee was never one to be shy about anything.

I'll never forget the game against Rutgers when Prince fouled Maya hard while Maya was going up for a layup. After checking on Maya, Renee walked right up to the huddle of Rutgers players and asked Prince if she intended to foul Maya that hard. That's a leader.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'll never forget the game against Rutgers when Prince fouled Maya hard while Maya was going up for a layup. After checking on Maya, Renee walked right up to the huddle of Rutgers players and asked Prince if she intended to foul Maya that hard. That's a leader.

The mugging that hurt Maya's butt and may have impacted her game vs. Stanford in 2008!

I can see Caroline in the same role. She'd be looking for someone to punch and then ask questions.

 

[Kibitzer]

It would be hard for someone with physical challenges like C Doty to be a vocal leader. I wonder if Kelly Faris can take up the slack. Hartley is still learning the offensive and defensive schemes.

"Hartley is still learning the offensive. . . schemes."

Yeah, so is Chris Daily.

 

[Icebear]

The mugging that hurt Maya's butt and may have impacted her game vs. Stanford in 2008!

I can see Caroline in the same role. She'd be looking for someone to punch and then ask questions.

Caroline has already done that type of thing.

 

[VAUConnFan]

The mugging that hurt Maya's butt and may have impacted her game vs. Stanford in 2008!

I can see Caroline in the same role. She'd be looking for someone to punch and then ask questions.

Of course, you are entitled to hold that opinion, but Maya scored 20 points on 8-19 shooting with 9 rebounds. Candice Wiggins, generally acknowledged as the difference for Stanford, scored 25 points on 7-19 shooting while collecting 13 rebounds.
Between the Rutgers game to which you refer and the Stanford game, there was a period of 33 days during which Maya Moore and UConn played seven other games; The Big East Tournament and the first four rounds of the NCAA Tournament. Maya's stats briefly:
DePaul 6-16, 15 rebounds, 14 pts
Pittsburgh 3-6, 6 rebounds, 7 pts
Louisville 5-14, 4 rebounds, 13 points
Cornell 7-16, 8 rebounds, 17 points
Texas 10-15, 12 rebounds, 24 points; (Who can forget the four consecutive threes she drained in the first half? or the nifty one hand over the head catch of a Kaili McLaren pass for a layup? Or, the play of the game when Maya chased down the Texas fastbreak and blocked the layup out of bounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWukBrbBjGE
Old Dominion 10-20, 11 rebounds, 25 points
Rutgers 3-7, 5 rebounds, 7 points

While I do not expect these stats to quell the bad feelings toward Epiphany Prince and Rutgers, maybe it will put to rest any notion of Maya being adversely affected over a month later by the hard foul.

 

[Olde Coach]

Mel published a book that part of the content said C Houston was purposefully resisting the scheme Geno was implementing. This sort of thing happens on teams.

With all due respect, Cafe, Mel said no such thing in her book.
Nor has she ever thought such a thing about Charde.

I speak as the editor of Mel's book. I have read her entire manuscript (very carefully) at least ten times, and many parts of it more than that. I know very precisely what is in Heart of a Husky.

The language you have chosen ("purposefully resisting the scheme that Geno was implementing") implies an intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals. This point of view has no basis in fact regarding Charde's experience at UConn. Nor is it relevant to the search for leadership on this year's team -- the central subject of this thread.

Charde was inconsistent and unpredictable in her relationships with teammates, coaches, UConn fans and the press. But she was never an intentionally negative participant in the program.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

With all due respect, Cafe, Mel said no such thing in her book.
Nor has she ever thought such a thing about Charde.

I speak as the editor of Mel's book. I have read her entire manuscript (very carefully) at least ten times, and many parts of it more than that. I know very precisely what is in Heart of a Husky.

The language you have chosen ("purposefully resisting the scheme that Geno was implementing") implies an intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals. This point of view has no basis in fact regarding Charde's experience at UConn. Nor is it relevant to the search for leadership on this year's team -- the central subject of this thread.

Charde was inconsistent and unpredictable in her relationships with teammates, coaches, UConn fans and the press. But she was never an intentionally negative participant in the program.

Well, The reading of the book says what I said, you perceive me as saying "intentional undermining of Geno's coaching etc, I never used those words or said what you are saying, what I said is "C Houston was purposefully resisting the scheme Geno was implementing" exact words not your interpretation of them, I never said she was trying to undermine Geno as you insinuate, I do understand your perspective, but you are adding on intent and words I never used, it is a bit unbecoming to purposefully reword and then redefine the actual statement made.

 

[Icebear]

Well, The reading of the book says what I said, you perceive me as saying "intentional undermining of Geno's coaching etc, I never used those words or said what you are saying, what I said is "C Houston was purposefully resisting the scheme Geno was implementing" exact words not your interpretation of them, I never said she was trying to undermine Geno as you insinuate, I do understand your perspective, but you are adding on intent and words I never used, it is a bit unbecoming to purposefully reword and then redefine the actual statement made.

Good communication practice requires restatement in different words to ascertain the meaning of a statement as given. Clearly, you understood the words you used differently than OC read them and I would say as I read them, too. His restatement made you object and give further clarification. That is helpful. The phrase "purposefully resisting" does smack of working against the team goal and that can easily be termed "consciously undermining" you have said that isn't how you understood it. That helps tremendouslyto clarify what you saw the words to imply. OC, consciously or unconsciously, did exactly what was necessary in communication process. Once common understanding of the content of words is achieved dialog has a means to an end.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

Good communication practice requires restatement in different words to ascertain the meaning of a statement as given. Clearly, you understood the words you used differently than OC read them and I would say as I read them, too. His restatement made you object and give further clarification. That is helpful. The phrase "purposefully resisting" does smack of working against the team goal and that can easily be termed "consciously undermining" you have said that isn't how you understood it. That helps tremendouslyto clarify what you saw the words to imply. OC, consciously or unconsciously, did exactly what was necessary in communication process. Once common understanding of the content of words is achieved dialog has a means to an end.

Well Said Sir

 

[DaddyChoc]

Of course, you are entitled to hold that opinion, but Maya scored 20 points on 8-19 shooting with 9 rebounds. Candice Wiggins, generally acknowledged as the difference for Stanford, scored 25 points on 7-19 shooting while collecting 13 rebounds.
Between the Rutgers game to which you refer and the Stanford game, there was a period of 33 days during which Maya Moore and UConn played seven other games; The Big East Tournament and the first four rounds of the NCAA Tournament. Maya's stats briefly:
DePaul 6-16, 15 rebounds, 14 pts
Pittsburgh 3-6, 6 rebounds, 7 pts
Louisville 5-14, 4 rebounds, 13 points
Cornell 7-16, 8 rebounds, 17 points
Texas 10-15, 12 rebounds, 24 points; (Who can forget the four consecutive threes she drained in the first half? or the nifty one hand over the head catch of a Kaili McLaren pass for a layup? Or, the play of the game when Maya chased down the Texas fastbreak and blocked the layup out of bounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWukBrbBjGE
Old Dominion 10-20, 11 rebounds, 25 points
Rutgers 3-7, 5 rebounds, 7 points

While I do not expect these stats to quell the bad feelings toward Epiphany Prince and Rutgers, maybe it will put to rest any notion of Maya being adversely affected over a month later by the hard foul.

are these FACTS?

bad feelings toward EPip & Rutgers, who would feel that way?
that was soooooo long ago, its over and forgotten by everyone on the BY so there's no need to bring this up ever again.

thanks!

 

[DaddyChoc]

Well Said Sir

so are you going to clarify or should I continue to assume Charde was "purposefully resisting"?

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

so are you going to clarify or should I continue to assume Charde was "purposefully resisting"?

She for her own part resisted Geno's scheme, I said she resisted Geno, I did not say that she was trying to undermine the team or the coaching staff, those words were the invention of someone else, the words I used in the context used can not mean anything other than what I said if read and understood. That is as far as I go on this. You by no means need to agree with me on this and that is fine. Mels book made it plain that she did not buy into the team scheme Geno used at that time.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours, Enjoy the Solstice as the days get longer, Spring is just around the corner.

May the sun be on your face and the wind at your back.

Go UCONN !!!!!!!

 

[Husky68]

KML and Heather need to be leaders. Surprised? They knows how to play ball and makes efforts to make plays all the time (I don't mean they are the only one who play hard, no, I said "make an effort to make plays all the time").
Since that won't happen, I'll take over the role and here is what I say:

Geno - play Heather, don't play zone, play more two bigs at same time, teach how to press and stop dribbler (Sims and Diggins will kill Uconn otherwise), make Tiff the point guard.
Dailey - teach Stef to rebound out of her area, get her have wider base and more balance.
Shea - make Harley carry Stef twice around the gym for every time she walks or carries the ball in a game and it gets called (once for each time it doesn't get called); teach all guards to dribble; make all guards watch ND vs. Baylor game and how ND players used rim/reverse shots to free themselves on drives.
Marissa - teach Stef to be aware of where opposing players are so when she catches ball she doesn't freeze up not knowing what to do, advise Kiah that its ok to get close enough to opponent to get their sweat on her uni.

Stef - lose some weight and get in better shape, spread that butt and those legs out to make space, move, jump.
Tiff - don't step up by making bad plays early and late in games when you teammated hide, go find them; keep working on that mid range game, aim on layups; drive down middle so better angle for dish to bigs.
Doty - you will not play another minute if you pass up another opportunity to fast break or make a move on player isolated one on one from the wing; shoot the Sue/Renee mid range shot more.
KF - stop over passing and putting pressure on other players to make shots, finish, finish, and when in doubt finish.
Hartley - walk = sit; carry ball = sit.
KML - freshman can lead.
Heather - red shirt juniors who know how to play and are effective in what they know how to do and keep at it at all times, can lead; regardless of how the coach uses you against ND or Stanford or anyone else. Playing right is on you, not playing you is on Geno.
Kiah - call Tina.
Lauren - stop playing like a girl, stop dribbling over your shoulders, play like you are trying to win not run the clock, play like team needs you.
Michala - keep at it, seeing signs of getting job done, Bonner was skinny too and she did alright at Auburn.
Banks - watch Dixon defensive tapes, make layups.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

Husky68, you make some interesting and valid points, You also have a sense of humor.

 

[DaddyChoc]

She for her own part resisted Geno's scheme, I said she resisted Geno, I did not say that she was trying to undermine the team or the coaching staff, those words were the invention of someone else, the words I used in the context used can not mean anything other than what I said if read and understood. That is as far as I go on this. You by no means need to agree with me on this and that is fine. Mels book made it plain that she did not buy into the team scheme Geno used at that time.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours, Enjoy the Solstice as the days get longer, Spring is just around the corner.

May the sun be on your face and the wind at your back.

Go UCONN !!!!!!!

not purposefully tho?

so purposefully resisted DOESNT mean the person meant to resist? is that what you're saying?

 

[Icebear]

Cafe, I think that DC is correct the disagreement rests on the use of "purposefully." To do something "purposefully" implies acts of consciousness and will. That is consistent with intentially undermining if unconscious resisting without purpose it is something very different.

Note: Let me be clear. I have no problem at all believing that Charde was resistent to something being set up by Geno. I simply question whether it was intentional or a conscious act as the word "purposefully" implies.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

not purposefully tho?

so purposefully resisted DOESNT mean the person meant to resist? is that what you're saying?

I guess I don't get what you don't get, so be it I guess.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

Cafe, I think that DC is correct the disagreement rests on the use of "purposefully." To do something "purposefully" implies acts of consciousness and will. That is consistent with intentially undermining if unconscious resisting without purpose it is something very different.

You guys are killing me of course it was purposeful, It is not rocket science guys, that is what the words I used in the first post I made about this say, go back and read them again it may help, only those words, do not add in your own predisposed attitude about it and it will then be clear,

 

[JS]

You guys are killing me of course it was purposeful

You guys are never going to get to the bottom of this, because there's no clear answer -- not for you, not for Mel, not even for Charde.

I can easily buy into Cafe's use of the word "purposefully." DC, who tends to defend the player (be it a UConn player or opposing player, e.g. Prince) doesn't like it. And I don't either if you interpret it in the macro sense that OC did ("intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals").

However, it's not hard to conclude that Charde was intentionally at some point resisting Geno's attempts -- in the interest of his macro goals -- to change her personal game. I'm quite sure she tried to do what he wanted, even over a prolonged period of time. But like Milford I also suspect that she was entertaining the thought that she just couldn't do it.

Remember the context. Charde was an immensely successful high school player -- shattered Cheryl Miller's California scoring records and all. She was recruited during a lull when she figured to be the only possible superstar on the team. With that background and those expectations, of course she'd want to continue doing what had brought her such success.

So then she faces pressure to change all that. She gets called for traveling every time she twitches a muscle. Geno wants her to play differently, not just be a scoring machine. She becomes confused. So she tries different things. She tries to do what he wants. It's not easy to break old, very successful habits. It's not easy to just forget them and try to add new dimensions.

She goes from someone who received adulation and approval to someone who gets criticized, like most players in the UConn pressure cooker but with extra high expectations.

So from time to time she succumbs to the temptation to keep trying the things that used to work. She gets in a funk. At this point she's not trying to undermine the system. Far from it.

But she's purposefully resisting the requested changes to her personal game, because they don't seem to work to bring her success and approval no matter how hard she tries, and she's got a ton of muscle memory of things that did work wonderfully for so long.

Now you can take another view of "purposefully" if you want, and say she wanted to be a big star scorer and never did buy into the team concept because she wanted to freelance and have a perpetual green light to score. So her ego made her purposefully resist the staff's teaching.

I don't buy that theory, which may be the one DC is shooting at. But I also don't know Charde, wasn't there, and can't rule it out.

Point is, Charde's experience at UConn was an enigma that has received so much attention and analysis over the years precisely because it was unique and fairly unfathomable. That she was purposefully resisting at times can't be labeled an unfair interpretation any more than other stabs, from afar, at divining the truth.

 

[John Fryer]

You guys are never going to get to the bottom of this, because there's no clear answer -- not for you, not for Mel, not even for Charde.

I can easily buy into Cafe's use of the word "purposefully." DC, who tends to defend the player (be it a UConn player or opposing player, e.g. Prince) doesn't like it. And I don't either if you interpret it in the macro sense that OC did ("intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals").

However, it's not hard to conclude that Charde was intentionally at some point resisting Geno's attempts -- in the interest of his macro goals -- to change her personal game. I'm quite sure she tried to do what he wanted, even over a prolonged period of time. But like Milford I also suspect that she was entertaining the thought that she just couldn't do it.

Remember the context. Charde was an immensely successful high school player -- shattered Cheryl Miller's California scoring records and all. She was recruited during a lull when she figured to be the only possible superstar on the team. With that background and those expectations, of course she'd want to continue doing what had brought her such success.

So then she faces pressure to change all that. She gets called for traveling every time she twitches a muscle. Geno wants her to play differently, not just be a scoring machine. She becomes confused. So she tries different things. She tries to do what he wants. It's not easy to break old, very successful habits. It's not easy to just forget them and try to add new dimensions.

She goes from someone who received adulation and approval to someone who gets criticized, like most players in the UConn pressure cooker but with extra high expectations.

So from time to time she succumbs to the temptation to keep trying the things that used to work. She gets in a funk. At this point she's not trying to undermine the system. Far from it.

But she's purposefully resisting the requested changes to her personal game, because they don't seem to work to bring her success and approval no matter how hard she tries, and she's got a ton of muscle memory of things that did work wonderfully for so long.

Now you can take another view of "purposefully" if you want, and say she wanted to be a big star scorer and never did buy into the team concept because she wanted to freelance and have a perpetual green light to score. So her ego made her purposefully resist the staff's teaching.

I don't buy that theory, which may be the one DC is shooting at. But I also don't know Charde, wasn't there, and can't rule it out.

Point is, Charde's experience at UConn was an enigma that has received so much attention and analysis over the years precisely because it was unique and fairly unfathomable. That she was purposefully resisting at times can't be labeled an unfair interpretation any more than other stabs, from afar, at divining the truth.

This is an excellent analysis!

If I may, I would just like to attempt a small addition:

In a previous post, I reacted strongly to a poster's suggestion that Coach A might attempt to change Moriah's game. And I referenced the horrible experience we all had had to live through when he had tried to change Charde's game.

Most of us are able and willing to accept change, if it comes is small doses. And if it doesn't threaten
things that we consider to be our core and fundamental values.

I would argue that, for highly successful players, their game and their skill sets are essential elements of their core and fundamental values.

For some, any attempt to change their skill sets maybe viewed as an attempt to change and to de-value them.

After all, Charde had been highly recruited because of her skill sets. It most have come as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise for her to be told that those skill sets were inadequate and/or unwanted.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[vtcwbuff]

Anytime the statement is '... other people aren't doing XXX', folks are being called out, IMHO.

I wouldn't characterize it as calling someone out because nobody is identified. However, it will certainly generate fan speculation as to who the player(s) are that "aren't getting it".

I haven't read about anything like this since Charde Houston.

 

[pap49cba]

Geno quote from the CoC write-up on the Uconn website. Haven't seen this elsewhere.

"It's an ongoing process. Three days ago we were beating the No; 1 team in the county with four minutes left in the game," Huskies coach Geno Auriemma said. "Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

 

[Icebear]

I guess I don't get what you don't get, so be it I guess.

Cafe, do know the page or chapter where the incident(s) you are referring to is found?