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John A: Team needs a vocal leader

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Good communication practice requires restatement in different words to ascertain the meaning of a statement as given. Clearly, you understood the words you used differently than OC read them and I would say as I read them, too. His restatement made you object and give further clarification. That is helpful. The phrase "purposefully resisting" does smack of working against the team goal and that can easily be termed "consciously undermining" you have said that isn't how you understood it. That helps tremendouslyto clarify what you saw the words to imply. OC, consciously or unconsciously, did exactly what was necessary in communication process. Once common understanding of the content of words is achieved dialog has a means to an end.

Well Said Sir
 
Of course, you are entitled to hold that opinion, but Maya scored 20 points on 8-19 shooting with 9 rebounds. Candice Wiggins, generally acknowledged as the difference for Stanford, scored 25 points on 7-19 shooting while collecting 13 rebounds.
Between the Rutgers game to which you refer and the Stanford game, there was a period of 33 days during which Maya Moore and UConn played seven other games; The Big East Tournament and the first four rounds of the NCAA Tournament. Maya's stats briefly:
DePaul 6-16, 15 rebounds, 14 pts
Pittsburgh 3-6, 6 rebounds, 7 pts
Louisville 5-14, 4 rebounds, 13 points
Cornell 7-16, 8 rebounds, 17 points
Texas 10-15, 12 rebounds, 24 points; (Who can forget the four consecutive threes she drained in the first half? or the nifty one hand over the head catch of a Kaili McLaren pass for a layup? Or, the play of the game when Maya chased down the Texas fastbreak and blocked the layup out of bounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWukBrbBjGE
Old Dominion 10-20, 11 rebounds, 25 points
Rutgers 3-7, 5 rebounds, 7 points

While I do not expect these stats to quell the bad feelings toward Epiphany Prince and Rutgers, maybe it will put to rest any notion of Maya being adversely affected over a month later by the hard foul.
are these FACTS?

bad feelings toward EPip & Rutgers, who would feel that way?
that was soooooo long ago, its over and forgotten by everyone on the BY so there's no need to bring this up ever again.

thanks! :rolleyes:
 
so are you going to clarify or should I continue to assume Charde was "purposefully resisting"?

She for her own part resisted Geno's scheme, I said she resisted Geno, I did not say that she was trying to undermine the team or the coaching staff, those words were the invention of someone else, the words I used in the context used can not mean anything other than what I said if read and understood. That is as far as I go on this. You by no means need to agree with me on this and that is fine. Mels book made it plain that she did not buy into the team scheme Geno used at that time.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours, Enjoy the Solstice as the days get longer, Spring is just around the corner.

May the sun be on your face and the wind at your back.

Go UCONN !!!!!!!
 
KML and Heather need to be leaders. Surprised? They knows how to play ball and makes efforts to make plays all the time (I don't mean they are the only one who play hard, no, I said "make an effort to make plays all the time").
Since that won't happen, I'll take over the role and here is what I say:

Geno - play Heather, don't play zone, play more two bigs at same time, teach how to press and stop dribbler (Sims and Diggins will kill Uconn otherwise), make Tiff the point guard.
Dailey - teach Stef to rebound out of her area, get her have wider base and more balance.
Shea - make Harley carry Stef twice around the gym for every time she walks or carries the ball in a game and it gets called (once for each time it doesn't get called); teach all guards to dribble; make all guards watch ND vs. Baylor game and how ND players used rim/reverse shots to free themselves on drives.
Marissa - teach Stef to be aware of where opposing players are so when she catches ball she doesn't freeze up not knowing what to do, advise Kiah that its ok to get close enough to opponent to get their sweat on her uni.

Stef - lose some weight and get in better shape, spread that butt and those legs out to make space, move, jump.
Tiff - don't step up by making bad plays early and late in games when you teammated hide, go find them; keep working on that mid range game, aim on layups; drive down middle so better angle for dish to bigs.
Doty - you will not play another minute if you pass up another opportunity to fast break or make a move on player isolated one on one from the wing; shoot the Sue/Renee mid range shot more.
Kelis Fisher - stop over passing and putting pressure on other players to make shots, finish, finish, and when in doubt finish.
Hartley - walk = sit; carry ball = sit.
KML - freshman can lead.
Heather - red shirt juniors who know how to play and are effective in what they know how to do and keep at it at all times, can lead; regardless of how the coach uses you against ND or Stanford or anyone else. Playing right is on you, not playing you is on Geno.
Kiah - call Tina.
Lauren - stop playing like a girl, stop dribbling over your shoulders, play like you are trying to win not run the clock, play like team needs you.
Michala - keep at it, seeing signs of getting job done, Bonner was skinny too and she did alright at Auburn.
Banks - watch Dixon defensive tapes, make layups.
 
.-.
She for her own part resisted Geno's scheme, I said she resisted Geno, I did not say that she was trying to undermine the team or the coaching staff, those words were the invention of someone else, the words I used in the context used can not mean anything other than what I said if read and understood. That is as far as I go on this. You by no means need to agree with me on this and that is fine. Mels book made it plain that she did not buy into the team scheme Geno used at that time.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours, Enjoy the Solstice as the days get longer, Spring is just around the corner.

May the sun be on your face and the wind at your back.

Go UCONN !!!!!!!
not purposefully tho?

so purposefully resisted DOESNT mean the person meant to resist? is that what you're saying?
 
Cafe, I think that DC is correct the disagreement rests on the use of "purposefully." To do something "purposefully" implies acts of consciousness and will. That is consistent with intentially undermining if unconscious resisting without purpose it is something very different.

Note: Let me be clear. I have no problem at all believing that Charde was resistent to something being set up by Geno. I simply question whether it was intentional or a conscious act as the word "purposefully" implies.
 
Cafe, I think that DC is correct the disagreement rests on the use of "purposefully." To do something "purposefully" implies acts of consciousness and will. That is consistent with intentially undermining if unconscious resisting without purpose it is something very different.


You guys are killing me of course it was purposeful, It is not rocket science guys, that is what the words I used in the first post I made about this say, go back and read them again it may help, only those words, do not add in your own predisposed attitude about it and it will then be clear,
 
You guys are killing me of course it was purposeful
You guys are never going to get to the bottom of this, because there's no clear answer -- not for you, not for Mel, not even for Charde.

I can easily buy into Cafe's use of the word "purposefully." DC, who tends to defend the player (be it a UConn player or opposing player, e.g. Prince) doesn't like it. And I don't either if you interpret it in the macro sense that OC did ("intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals").

However, it's not hard to conclude that Charde was intentionally at some point resisting Geno's attempts -- in the interest of his macro goals -- to change her personal game. I'm quite sure she tried to do what he wanted, even over a prolonged period of time. But like Milford I also suspect that she was entertaining the thought that she just couldn't do it.

Remember the context. Charde was an immensely successful high school player -- shattered Cheryl Miller's California scoring records and all. She was recruited during a lull when she figured to be the only possible superstar on the team. With that background and those expectations, of course she'd want to continue doing what had brought her such success.

So then she faces pressure to change all that. She gets called for traveling every time she twitches a muscle. Geno wants her to play differently, not just be a scoring machine. She becomes confused. So she tries different things. She tries to do what he wants. It's not easy to break old, very successful habits. It's not easy to just forget them and try to add new dimensions.

She goes from someone who received adulation and approval to someone who gets criticized, like most players in the UConn pressure cooker but with extra high expectations.

So from time to time she succumbs to the temptation to keep trying the things that used to work. She gets in a funk. At this point she's not trying to undermine the system. Far from it.

But she's purposefully resisting the requested changes to her personal game, because they don't seem to work to bring her success and approval no matter how hard she tries, and she's got a ton of muscle memory of things that did work wonderfully for so long.

Now you can take another view of "purposefully" if you want, and say she wanted to be a big star scorer and never did buy into the team concept because she wanted to freelance and have a perpetual green light to score. So her ego made her purposefully resist the staff's teaching.

I don't buy that theory, which may be the one DC is shooting at. But I also don't know Charde, wasn't there, and can't rule it out.

Point is, Charde's experience at UConn was an enigma that has received so much attention and analysis over the years precisely because it was unique and fairly unfathomable. That she was purposefully resisting at times can't be labeled an unfair interpretation any more than other stabs, from afar, at divining the truth.
 
You guys are never going to get to the bottom of this, because there's no clear answer -- not for you, not for Mel, not even for Charde.

I can easily buy into Cafe's use of the word "purposefully." DC, who tends to defend the player (be it a UConn player or opposing player, e.g. Prince) doesn't like it. And I don't either if you interpret it in the macro sense that OC did ("intentional undermining of Geno's coaching procedures and goals").

However, it's not hard to conclude that Charde was intentionally at some point resisting Geno's attempts -- in the interest of his macro goals -- to change her personal game. I'm quite sure she tried to do what he wanted, even over a prolonged period of time. But like Milford I also suspect that she was entertaining the thought that she just couldn't do it.

Remember the context. Charde was an immensely successful high school player -- shattered Cheryl Miller's California scoring records and all. She was recruited during a lull when she figured to be the only possible superstar on the team. With that background and those expectations, of course she'd want to continue doing what had brought her such success.

So then she faces pressure to change all that. She gets called for traveling every time she twitches a muscle. Geno wants her to play differently, not just be a scoring machine. She becomes confused. So she tries different things. She tries to do what he wants. It's not easy to break old, very successful habits. It's not easy to just forget them and try to add new dimensions.

She goes from someone who received adulation and approval to someone who gets criticized, like most players in the UConn pressure cooker but with extra high expectations.

So from time to time she succumbs to the temptation to keep trying the things that used to work. She gets in a funk. At this point she's not trying to undermine the system. Far from it.

But she's purposefully resisting the requested changes to her personal game, because they don't seem to work to bring her success and approval no matter how hard she tries, and she's got a ton of muscle memory of things that did work wonderfully for so long.

Now you can take another view of "purposefully" if you want, and say she wanted to be a big star scorer and never did buy into the team concept because she wanted to freelance and have a perpetual green light to score. So her ego made her purposefully resist the staff's teaching.

I don't buy that theory, which may be the one DC is shooting at. But I also don't know Charde, wasn't there, and can't rule it out.

Point is, Charde's experience at UConn was an enigma that has received so much attention and analysis over the years precisely because it was unique and fairly unfathomable. That she was purposefully resisting at times can't be labeled an unfair interpretation any more than other stabs, from afar, at divining the truth.

This is an excellent analysis!

If I may, I would just like to attempt a small addition:

In a previous post, I reacted strongly to a poster's suggestion that Coach A might attempt to change Moriah's game. And I referenced the horrible experience we all had had to live through when he had tried to change Charde's game.

Most of us are able and willing to accept change, if it comes is small doses. And if it doesn't threaten
things that we consider to be our core and fundamental values.

I would argue that, for highly successful players, their game and their skill sets are essential elements of their core and fundamental values.

For some, any attempt to change their skill sets maybe viewed as an attempt to change and to de-value them.

After all, Charde had been highly recruited because of her skill sets. It most have come as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise for her to be told that those skill sets were inadequate and/or unwanted.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Peace,

John Fryer
 
.-.
Anytime the statement is '... other people aren't doing XXX', folks are being called out, IMHO.

I wouldn't characterize it as calling someone out because nobody is identified. However, it will certainly generate fan speculation as to who the player(s) are that "aren't getting it".

I haven't read about anything like this since Charde Houston.
 
Geno quote from the CoC write-up on the Uconn website. Haven't seen this elsewhere.

"It's an ongoing process. Three days ago we were beating the No; 1 team in the county with four minutes left in the game," Huskies coach Geno Auriemma said. "Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."
 
Geno quote from the CoC write-up on the Uconn website. Haven't seen this elsewhere.

"It's an ongoing process. Three days ago we were beating the No; 1 team in the county with four minutes left in the game," Huskies coach Geno Auriemma said. "Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Could someone please explain this comment by coach A:

"Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Was that comment intended to be motivational?

IMO, it sounded very hurtful to the entire team.

Peace,

John Fryer
 
Could someone please explain this comment by coach A:

"Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Was that comment intended to be motivational?

IMO, it sounded very hurtful to the entire team.

Peace,

John Fryer
Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.
 
Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.
Totally agree. Just Geno dripping sarcasm in the wake of a listless performance. He is cranking up the mind-games control knob in anticipation of the BE season.
 
.-.
The press wants a comment. They got one. It is doubtful to me that even the coaches prepared for this game like they did for Baylor. It is hard to come down from the mountain and head right back up. As a coach, you just don't want to believe that your guys are capable of laying an egg. Thus a comment rooted in the moment of frustration.
 
Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.
Absolutely. Reading Geno is always a perilous activity since he conveys so much by tone of voice.
 
I wouldn't characterize it as calling someone out because nobody is identified. However, it will certainly generate fan speculation as to who the player(s) are that "aren't getting it".

I haven't read about anything like this since Charde Houston.
Heather comes close but since she plays good D against BG she gets a pass...
 
so are you going to clarify or should I continue to assume Charde was "purposefully resisting"?

Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".
 
Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".
vtc, page and chapter?

If what you post is an accurate quote and I have no reason to believe it isn't it strongly calls Cafe's choice of words into question unless he is speaking of different material and makes JS analysis based on less than solid footing.

What you posted is closer to material I remember.
 
Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".
so does this explain "purposefully resisting"... I mean if Geno told Charde to dribble left and hand it off to Ketia BUT she was dribbling right and handing off to Renee and then giggled about it I would agree she was "purposefully resisting".

If Geno was telling her to set a pick at the top of the key then roll into the paint, look for the pass then kick it out to Renee for the open 3.... but Charde could never get it because she thought she was open and twirl to the basket and get called for the charge. I wouldnt call that "purposefully resisting"... she would be thinking at the time her option looked better IMO.

I could live with "didnt get it" before I would agree on "purposefully resisting"

BTW JS Im for the player MOST of the time because as adults we think as 60yr old educated adults and not 19yr olds... so its woulda coulda shoulda etc. If we never went thru what they went thru at 18 we have no clue on how it is. If you did but it was in the 60's and you want to compare it to 2007 thats not fair to the child.
we have no clue on their upbringing, sexual issues, financial needs, family illnesses etc. All we know is that Charde didnt bring a championship home to Storrs and thats a shame IMO

thats sort of why I defend the player, any player... EDD, AStrother, McCormick, Samarie or EPip
 
.-.
The quote is at the top of page 151.

DaddyChoc - I don't know if you read Thomas' book but there are a few paragraphs describing an off court meeting between team captains Mel Thomas, Renee Montgomery with Charde Houston. According to Thomas they went to Houston to offer their help. After asking several questions about how she was doing or if anything were wrong - and not getting any response, Thomas admits she sort of lost it. "She just sat there and stared at me. I wanted to punch her." We never figured out what was wrong with her. So it seems that the fans that were puzzled by Houston's behavior were not alone.

In any case this thread has wandered a long way from the original leadership topic. My own personal feeling is that there may not be a floor leader (at least how I think of one) on the team.

I can still see diminuative Montgomery all up in Tina Charles' grill - and Charles paying attention to her. That last part is the leadership bit.
 
Insight...Walking in another's shoes...I really like JS' post about Charde, because it offers well thought out insight on what possibly may have gone on with Charde during her tenure at UConn. For me the reader and fan, I think that it also illustrates why the UConn program is for some players, but not for others. There is no ill intent against Charde in this last sentence at all. It just is what it is.

I would like to take a crack at Caroline's predicament, from a personal experience of my own.

Last year around this time, I lost my voice completely. I was unable to utter any sound whatsoever - if I needed to give a cabbie instructions, I had to write them down (and hope that the driver could read english), I couldn't use the telephone, and as it was during that bad stretch of weather in NYC, if I fell down and got hurt, I could not call out for help. Let me add here that I am a professional singer. Needless to say, I was unable to sing and lost quite a bit of work, not to mention that singing was something I did all the time, where ever I went. It is as much a part of my existance as breathing.

Four weeks after the onset of this illness, I was able to make myself understood, but my voice as I knew it was still a long way from returning. In fact, I didn't start to speak in a semi-normal voice until about late March, and as for singing, to this day I am still not fully recovered. I started taking singing jobs in early fall, but lost my voice again during Yom Kippur services for which I was hired to sing. My voice is not the same, I do not have the same control oover it or confidence I once had for when it feels like it, the voice just quits on me.

I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating it is to know how to sing properly and with emotion and expression, but when I try, the voice does not cooperate. I have to be careful and cautious when I sing, and I cannot take risks and let 'er rip as I once did. I am limited by this problem.

I feel like a part of me is missing, and I struggle with this every day. Technically I am cured, healthy and able, yet I know that I do not enjoy the facility I once posessed. It is a loss.

I look at Caroline's struggles and I see myself. Part of some of my jobs as a singer is to be a leader of a section or group. I know that from personal experience the difficulty if leading when internally struggling/dealing with technical issues. This makes it easier to understand her situation and sympathize.

When she was recovering, it was easy to lead, but now that she, too must perform her tasks on the floor , it may be asking quite a lot to do both.

Caroline would not accept my sympathy because of who she is so I won't offer it up, yet she certainly has my understanding.
 
The quote is at the top of page 151.

DaddyChoc - I don't know if you read Thomas' book but there are a few paragraphs describing an off court meeting between team captains Mel Thomas, Renee Montgomery with Charde Houston. According to Thomas they went to Houston to offer their help. After asking several questions about how she was doing or if anything were wrong - and not getting any response, Thomas admits she sort of lost it. "She just sat there and stared at me. I wanted to punch her." We never figured out what was wrong with her. So it seems that the fans that were puzzled by Houston's behavior were not alone.

In any case this thread has wandered a long way from the original leadership topic. My own personal feeling is that there may not be a floor leader (at least how I think of one) on the team.

I can still see diminuative Montgomery all up in Tina Charles' grill - and Charles paying attention to her. That last part is the leadership bit.
Renee was an awesome leader... I wonder if Bria has atleast some of her leadership qualities. Bria could definitely lead by exampple on the court, she fearless!
 
Renee was an awesome leader... I wonder if Bria has atleast some of her leadership qualities. Bria could definitely lead by exampple on the court, she fearless!

I think that of the current players, Hartley is the one most likely to mature into a leadership role.
 
This is an excellent analysis!

If I may, I would just like to attempt a small addition:

In a previous post, I reacted strongly to a poster's suggestion that Coach A might attempt to change Moriah's game. And I referenced the horrible experience we all had had to live through when he had tried to change Charde's game.

Most of us are able and willing to accept change, if it comes is small doses. And if it doesn't threaten
things that we consider to be our core and fundamental values.

I would argue that, for highly successful players, their game and their skill sets are essential elements of their core and fundamental values.

For some, any attempt to change their skill sets maybe viewed as an attempt to change and to de-value them.

After all, Charde had been highly recruited because of her skill sets. It most have come as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise for her to be told that those skill sets were inadequate and/or unwanted.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Peace,

John Fryer
Moriah's experience will be completely different because she is an entirely different person than Charde was with all of the different experiences to shape it.

JS 's long post and its postulations demonstrate the impact of two of a number of possibilities of understanding the use of the term "purposeful" that could completely alter the understanding of "purposefully resisting." It is, also, highly likely as in the episode vtc posted that Charde may well have been completely obtuse to the situation as Renee and Mel were to her thoughts. The passage is, also, what leads me to think the resistance was not likely a purposeful resisting at all but was rather a unconscious event.
 
John - IMO it is the coaches primary job to change a high school players game when they arrive at UConn. It's part of preparing the player for big time bball. How much it needs changing is up to the coach. On balance I would suggest that his overwhelming success in player development supports that.

I think that it is a mistake to characterize Houston's problems that way. It wasn't so much changing her game but the demands and the criticism. She was unable to respond the same way as players like Charles, Lobo, Bird Cash and so many others. They grew from it, Houston withdrew. Or maybe she was just "a jerk that didn't care about the team" as Thomas wondered. :(
 
.-.
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