Joe Lunardi now has us as one of the last four in

[tzznandrew]

TZZAndrew, who I think is a great poster, actually said he doesn't like using dictionary definitions to settle arguments. As if the alternative to using dictionary definitions isn't just to fight about what individuals think the word should mean.

I mean, yeah. Fundamentally I don't like using a dictionary because it's an appeal to authority that seems to most as if it were authoritative when it isn't necessarily so. Something like the OED takes multiple snapshots of how a word is used at a given time. It's not telling us what drown must mean in usage, just what it has. From the moment after the snapshot has been taken the word may begin its drift to newer or more subtle uses. Happens all the time. Especially since the definitions are tied to media in some way (has to appear in print/radio/tv/internet) and not the way people may use it in spoken vernacular, often in nonstandard or nonliteral ways like this, certain meanings and uses get lost.

Still, if we want to resort to the OED (which I think is unnecessary), there seems to be a perfectly reasonable usage that fits what he said attested in the Wycliffe Bible, Fanny Burney, and Dickens' Nickelby among others (II.3.b).

The attestation from Robert Pollock's The Course of Time, published in 1827, of "He drowned himself in sleep, / In wine" hardly reads any different than "If we lose out to Duke in making the field, I will drown myself in hot sauce and puke on Coach K" because in both cases we know the speaker is alive.

So, I guess I should say that I think fighting over the precise meaning of a word in most contexts is a complete waste of time. There's a sphere of meaning that most accept, and provided the usage falls within that it's not really a useful or interesting debate beyond pedantry. We all understood what he meant because he used the term in the general sphere of meaning we're familiar with.

 

[87Xfer]

I mean, yeah. Fundamentally I don't like using a dictionary because it's an appeal to authority that seems to most as if it were authoritative when it isn't necessarily so. Something like the OED takes multiple snapshots of how a word is used at a given time. It's not telling us what drown must mean in usage, just what it has. From the moment after the snapshot has been taken the word may begin its drift to newer or more subtle uses. Happens all the time. Especially since the definitions are tied to media in some way (has to appear in print/radio/tv/internet) and not the way people may use it in spoken vernacular, often in nonstandard or nonliteral ways like this, certain meanings and uses get lost.

Still, if we want to resort to the OED (which I think is unnecessary), there seems to be a perfectly reasonable usage that fits what he said attested in the Wycliffe Bible, Fanny Burney, and Dickens' Nickelby among others (II.3.b).

The attestation from Rober Pollock's The Course of Time, published posthumously in 1857, of "He drowned himself in sleep, / In wine" hardly reads any different than "If we lose out to Duke in making the field, I will drown myself in hot sauce and puke on Coach K" because in both cases we know the speaker is alive.

So, I guess I should that I think fighting over the exact meaning of a word in most contexts is a complete waste of time. There's a sphere of meaning that most accept, and we all understood what he meant because he used the term in the general sphere of meaning we're familiar with.

where do you stand on peoples' current usage of "literally" when they mean "figuratively"?

 

[tzznandrew]

where do you stand on peoples' current usage of "literally" when they mean "figuratively"?

Joyce made fun of it in Dubliners over 100 years ago. It's right in the opening sentence of "The Dead." Which means it was essentially standard English then.

If a student put it in a paper or I saw it in a formal setting I would correct it. Register matters. In conversation, classroom discussion, message boards, whatever else, I don't think it matters. Everyone in the conversation knew what it meant. It seems more a faux pas on my end then on theirs if I corrected them. There's no need for that sort of pedantry other than to suggest I'm somehow better and smarter than them.

 

[Stinger92860]

CBS has UConn up on the 8 seed line. I'd rather be 11.

2021 NCAA Tournament Bracket Predictions - Bracketology - College Basketball - CBSSports.com

if we play like we can, a 7 seed is possible and with some luck a 6. Obviously I’d rather get a 7, otherwise 10 is better.

 

[Stinger92860]

Is water wet?

only in liquid and gas form.

 

[Greathusky]

I’m loving the drown or not drown debate. Just riveting

Did you ever post something and then have the Boneyard take it down a road you would have never guessed? It happens!

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

 

[Kolumbo]

Did you ever post something and then have the Boneyard take it down a road you would have never guessed? It happens!

And that has made all the difference.

 

[Dooooooomed]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

Their final game is at Minnesota. Lose that and a first round Big10 tourney exit, and they may be in trouble.

 

[SportsFan88]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

The big10 is so “great” that with a win even Nebraska will enter the bubble talk LOL

 

[Drew]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

The big10 is so “great” that with a win even Nebraska will enter the bubble talk LOL

NU definitely stinks but with the win gets to 92 in KenPom which is only Q2. Weird quirk of the B1G this year.

 

[mauconnfan]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

Huskers leading scorer left the program and didn’t play but they still hammered RU in what should’ve been a huge game for the Scarlet Knights. Should be last 4 in with a lot to prove.

 

[CTBasketball]

Rutgers getting absolutely annihilated by a brutally awful Nebraska team. About to fall to 13-10. Somehow no one talks about them as a bubble team or a team in any kind of danger.

They beat Illinois back in December, and by Big 10 logic that means they’re a lock unless they finish below .500

 

[AuRevoirAAC]

They beat Illinois back in December, and by Big 10 logic that means they’re a lock unless they finish below .500

Exactly. What have they accomplished besides a win at home against Illinois before Christmas?!? They now have 10 losses. This is the definition of a bubble team.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Their final game is at Minnesota. Lose that and a first round Big10 tourney exit, and they may be in trouble.

They’d be 13-12. That’s not even NIT

 

[ScottVib]

Luanardi has moved UConn out of the play-ins and now has them listed as a 10. (would end up with Virginia Tech as the 7 and Iowa as the 2 seed in the Gonzaga bracket)

 

[billybud]

Luanardi has moved UConn out of the play-ins and now has them listed as a 10. (would end up with Virginia Tech as the 7 and Iowa as the 2 seed in the Gonzaga bracket)

VT is a hard to predict team..a win over Nova early on...then a 20 point loss in Blacksburg to a bad Penn State, an 18 point loss to Syracuse...yet still 9-4 in conference.

The Zags look like a team of destiny....

 

[Tyler2Rings]

Looking at www.bracketmatrix.com Seton Hall is the final at-large team, in about 60% of projected fields. Michigan State first out, in just under 50% of projections.

Bottom line Seton Hall is going to have a lot to play for tomorrow. Won't be easy

 

[Hi-Low]

Looking at www.bracketmatrix.com Seton Hall is the final at-large team, in about 60% of projected fields. Michigan State first out, in just under 50% of projections.

Bottom line Seton Hall is going to have a lot to play for tomorrow. Won't be easy

UConn & Seton Hall both have a lot to play for but Seton Hall definitely in a worse spot. If UConn loses that probably makes the G'Town game a must win....I don't believe they would lose to G'Town but it's best to avoid that scenario.

Seton Hall is not dead with a loss, they still have @ St. John's & BE tourney so they could still sneak in depending on how the bubble teams shake out.

UConn seals the deal with a win so plenty of motivation for the Huskies, should treat tomorrow like a Tourney game.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

VT is a hard to predict team..a win over Nova early on...then a 20 point loss in Blacksburg to a bad Penn State, an 18 point loss to Syracuse...yet still 9-4 in conference.

The Zags look like a team of destiny....

I’ve caught a few (pun intended) Zags games. They are like Nova on steroids. 5 out offense with size everywhere. Extremely well coached and makes limited mistakes. Freshman PG but he’s a lotto pick so that doesn’t matter much.
LMU did give them some trouble speeding them up in the first half last weekend.

 

[aburks41]

I’ve caught a few (pun intended) Zags games. They are like Nova on steroids. 5 out offense with size everywhere. Extremely well coached and makes limited mistakes. Freshman PG but he’s a lotto pick so that doesn’t matter much.
LMU did give them some trouble speeding them up in the first half last weekend.

Gonzaga is #1 for a reason, but they will have gone 3 months without playing anyone remotely decent (not their fault the WCC is full of high school teams). That's going to hurt them when they suddenly start playing real teams again. Their 8/9 match up will be very interesting

 

[Palatine]

I mean, yeah. Fundamentally I don't like using a dictionary because it's an appeal to authority that seems to most as if it were authoritative when it isn't necessarily so.

The dictionary is a neutral arbitrator. It is necessary exactly because the nature of language is fluid. Using it is not an appeal to authority. It is an appeal to objectivity.

If words mean what any writer/speaker wishes them to mean, language will become useless. There has to be some governing authority or communication becomes impossible with each wrtiter/speaker using their own langauge.

 

[billybud]

ahhh...but we do speak our own language in normal colloquial use...since streaming Brit shows...I have come to realize that they don't speak english. Funny innit?

I'm chuffed to bits listening....but do not attempt to order chips in the US expecting to receive french fires. I am not taking the piss here, just noticing.

And here in the South. folks know how y'all is used...

y'all....can be singular

y'all....can be a small group

all y'all....for a larger group.

 

[Waquoit]

ahhh...but we do speak our own language in normal colloquial use...since streaming Brit shows...I have come to realize that they don't speak english. Funny innit?

I'm chuffed to bits listening....but do not attempt to order chips in the US expecting to receive french fires. I am not taking the piss here, just noticing.

And here in the South. folks know how y'all is used...

y'all....can be singular

y'all....can be a small group

all y'all....for a larger group.

I knew there was a reason I had this guy on ignore. I click unignore for one post and this is what I get.

 

[billybud]

I knew there was a reason I had this guy on ignore. I click unignore for one post and this is what I get.

You don't find colloquial language difference interesting? Please do hit the button again. Of course I was responding to

"The dictionary is a neutral arbitrator. It is necessary exactly because the nature of language is fluid. Using it is not an appeal to authority. It is an appeal to objectivity." in the post above mine.