Jewell Loyd Leaving for WNBA

[RockyMTblue2]

To me it sorta sounded like laying the foundation for an excuse for losing the NC game to UCONN again ("We were without the "full" capacity of Loyd.")

That is a credible possibility with that crowd.

 

[iri10]

I started watching ND closely in Diggins's last year. Jewell Loyd is better than Diggins and McBride in my opinion. But Diggins body of work is better as a result of the extra year.

As basketball players, I agree that Jewell is better. But I think Skylar gave her teams that extra boost of swagger and confidence that really helped them win a lot of those games against UConn.

McBride and Loyd, to me, are the more quiet kind of leader. They set an example for their team by being excellent, rather than through the force of their personalities. On UConn, Stewart is this kind of leader as well.

Diggins was at times excellent as well, but she also had the personality, and her team's results against UConn benefitted accordingly. My opinion is that UConn may well have been a better team than ND all of Skylar's senior year...but the head to head results told the opposite story. Not until the national semifinals did UConn finally shake off ND.

I think the lack of a personality like Skylar's was one of the missing x-factors that derailed upset attempts by ND these last few years.

 

[hoophuskee]

Diggins was at times excellent as well, but she also had the personality, and her team's results against UConn benefitted accordingly. My opinion is that UConn may well have been a better team than ND all of Skylar's senior year...but the head to head results told the opposite story. Not until the national semifinals did UConn finally shake off ND.

I think the lack of a personality like Skylar's was one of the missing x-factors that derailed upset attempts by ND these last few years.

I don't think UCONN was better until they figured out the enigma that once was Breanna Stewart.

 

[bballnut90]

This could end up being a blessing in disguise for Notre Dame. Even if Loyd did stay a Notre Dame, chances are they have a season very similar to this one. Minimal loses and a 5th runner up trophy in 6 years. Now that Loyd is gone, Notre Dame is still my pick to make the Final Four, and they are setting themselves up well for 2017. Look at their potential rotation next year:
C-Turner, So
F-Reimer, Jr
F-Mabrey, Fr
G-Allen, Jr
G-Mabrey, Sr
Bench:
Westbeld-So, F
Mabrey-Fr, G/F
Ogunbowale-Fr, G
Patberg-Fr, G


They'll have a full year to gel in the post Loyd era, and return all major contributors going into 2017 besides Michaela Mabrey, who was the 5th option this year. They also have 2 top 15 players coming on board in 2016-17, and are in the mix for Cox, Holmes, and McCoy. That will be their best shot to win a title when UCONN loses Jefferson, Stewart and possibly Morgan Tuck. Additionally, teams like Florida State, South Carolina, Oregon State and Baylor also lose major contributors. Her absence could put Notre Dame in a great spot to be the title favorite in 2016-17.

That said, UCONN could return a lineup of:
C-Butler
F-Tuck
F-KLS
G-Collier
G-Nurse

Which could easily wind up being as good as ND's starting 5.

 

[choochoo]

This could end up being a blessing in disguise for Notre Dame. Even if Loyd did stay a Notre Dame, chances are they have a season very similar to this one. Minimal loses and a 5th runner up trophy in 6 years. Now that Loyd is gone, Notre Dame is still my pick to make the Final Four, and they are setting themselves up well for 2017. Look at their potential rotation next year:
C-Turner, So
F-Reimer, Jr
F-Mabrey, Fr
G-Allen, Jr
G-Mabrey, Sr
Bench:
Westbeld-So, F
Mabrey-Fr, G/F
Ogunbowale-Fr, G
Patberg-Fr, G


They'll have a full year to gel in the post Loyd era, and return all major contributors going into 2017 besides Michaela Mabrey, who was the 5th option this year. They also have 2 top 15 players coming on board in 2016-17, and are in the mix for Cox, Holmes, and McCoy. That will be their best shot to win a title when UCONN loses Jefferson, Stewart and possibly Morgan Tuck. Additionally, teams like Florida State, South Carolina, Oregon State and Baylor also lose major contributors. Her absence could put Notre Dame in a great spot to be the title favorite in 2016-17.

That said, UCONN could return a lineup of:
C-Butler
F-Tuck
F-KLS
G-Collier
G-Nurse

Which could easily wind up being as good as ND's starting 5.

Or better!

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Collier is in no way a guard. Think Swin Cash/Asjha Jones hybrid.

I don't see Nurse playing point either, but that's another topic.

 

[Striper69]

Either she or Diggins is the best ever ND player. They're the first tier.

Jewell is a better player than Skylar was in college in raw basketball talent. Skylar was the most successful.

 

[Striper69]

It was her choice to make and I respect that. It doesn't mean I have to like it. That's basically what it boils down to.

In terms of legacy, she left, very possibly, another final four, All-American team, and ACC POY on the table. So that does have a huge effect on things when you are evaluating her against someone like Diggins. Another All-America season and she was in the discussion for greatest-ever ND player. Another All-America season with a championship and she would have been #1 without a doubt.

Now, she's probably in the 2nd tier with McBride, Achonwa, Peters, Novosel, et al.

That's what I don't like about the college game. Fans think they own the players (at least in women's BB) then some of them don't support them when they move on to the WNBA.
You don't hear people whining about the "One And Dones" in men's CBB.

How about being big about it and thanking her for what she gave to ND/wishing her luck?

I also wonder what would have happened if the shoe was on the other foot and Stewart was eligible to go for the draft and decided to leave early? It's really about the same thing on the UCONN side. UCONN doesn't win the title next year without her (and if Jewell had stayed).

 

[Striper69]

This could end up being a blessing in disguise for Notre Dame. Even if Loyd did stay a Notre Dame, chances are they have a season very similar to this one. Minimal loses and a 5th runner up trophy in 6 years. Now that Loyd is gone, Notre Dame is still my pick to make the Final Four, and they are setting themselves up well for 2017. Look at their potential rotation next year:
C-Turner, So
F-Reimer, Jr
F-Mabrey, Fr
G-Allen, Jr
G-Mabrey, Sr
Bench:
Westbeld-So, F
Mabrey-Fr, G/F
Ogunbowale-Fr, G
Patberg-Fr, G


They'll have a full year to gel in the post Loyd era, and return all major contributors going into 2017 besides Michaela Mabrey, who was the 5th option this year. They also have 2 top 15 players coming on board in 2016-17, and are in the mix for Cox, Holmes, and McCoy. That will be their best shot to win a title when UCONN loses Jefferson, Stewart and possibly Morgan Tuck. Additionally, teams like Florida State, South Carolina, Oregon State and Baylor also lose major contributors. Her absence could put Notre Dame in a great spot to be the title favorite in 2016-17.

That said, UCONN could return a lineup of:
C-Butler
F-Tuck
F-KLS
G-Collier
G-Nurse

Which could easily wind up being as good as ND's starting 5.

ND will not make the Final Four next season.

 

[hoophuskee]

ND will not make the Final Four next season.

I don't know about that.

And secondly, in defense of the ND fan, if a player only plays 3 years while another gives you 4, and the players are close, why wouldn't some fans give it to the paly that played? Four is better than three.

 

[Striper69]

Give what?

 

[Striper69]

I don't know about that.

And secondly, in defense of the ND fan, if a player only plays 3 years while another gives you 4, and the players are close, why wouldn't some fans give it to the paly that played? Four is better than three.

Jewell is the reason ND was even in the NC game. Every team was focusing on her but she got them through every team but UCONN. The other players were missing wide open shots in the NC game.

 

[UcMiami]

Striper - a lot of people complained about the one and done players on the men's side when the rules for the NBA were changed. But fan's have become inured to it over time. But for most fans on the men's side, I think there is more love for those that stuck around for three or four years, than those that visited for 6 months, however talented.

And on the women's side Loyd and Zahui B are the second and third players I am aware of who, in good academic standing, turned pro before they got their degree over the history of that being an option. There may have been another but I don't think so. Parker did leave with eligibility remaining but with her degree in hand, as have a few others that either had to sit out a transfer year or an injury year. So we are not used to players leaving short of their degree, and we are generally not happy with the idea it might be the start of a trend. We are probably more emotionally attached to the players as people, and there is an element of 'betrayal' in their leaving us before we expect them to.

Morgan might well leave after next year with her degree in hand - I hope not, but it would not be all that surprising. She would have completed her academic requirement which is the 'bargain' she made with the school and her fans.

 

[HuskyNan]

Jewell is the reason ND was even in the NC game. Every team was focusing on her but she got them through every team but UCONN. The other players were missing wide open shots in the NC game.

Sometimes when there's a superstar on a team, teammates unconsciously stand back and wait for her to make shots. We've seen it at UConn with the Diana Taurasi-led teams. It's not unusual for really good players, and ND has a lot of them, to rediscover how good they are after the superstar is gone and to play at a higher level.

And we shouldn't underestimate Muffet as a coach. She's almost as good at covering up weaknesses in a team as Geno is.

 

[oneresult]

bballnut90

Did you give up on MoJeff in your starting lineup??????

 

[hoophuskee]

Give what?

Fans identifying one player is greater because of 4 years instead of 3. I could be wrong but it seemed like it bothers you a bit if a fan gives another an edge/ or equates them because of 4 years vs 3. .

 

[hoophuskee]

Jewell is the reason ND was even in the NC game. Every team was focusing on her but she got them through every team but UCONN. The other players were missing wide open shots in the NC game.

I don't agree with this at all. You don't win your own conference - be regarded as 2nd best team in America, get to the finals, keep it close vs UCONN and crush us on the backboards all because of Jewell Loyd. Were Mabrey and Turner missing wide open shots?

 

[easttexastrash]

I bet that's the real reason: the draft and being 1st overall this year instead of being behind Stewie next year. Losing to UCONN per se is irrelevant.

Agreed. This is not about UCONN..it's about Loyd.

 

[winitall]

Striper - a lot of people complained about the one and done players on the men's side when the rules for the NBA were changed. But fan's have become inured to it over time. But for most fans on the men's side, I think there is more love for those that stuck around for three or four years, than those that visited for 6 months, however talented.

And on the women's side Loyd and Zahui B are the second and third players I am aware of who, in good academic standing, turned pro before they got their degree over the history of that being an option. There may have been another but I don't think so. Parker did leave with eligibility remaining but with her degree in hand, as have a few others that either had to sit out a transfer year or an injury year. So we are not used to players leaving short of their degree, and we are generally not happy with the idea it might be the start of a trend. We are probably more emotionally attached to the players as people, and there is an element of 'betrayal' in their leaving us before we expect them to.

Morgan might well leave after next year with her degree in hand - I hope not, but it would not be all that surprising. She would have completed her academic requirement which is the 'bargain' she made with the school and her fans.

Epiphanny Prince left Rutgers in good academic standing to play in Europe before playing in the WNBA.

 

[UcMiami]

Epiphanny Prince left Rutgers in good academic standing to play in Europe before playing in the WNBA.

Yes but a year short of graduating. She may have since, I don't know. But she would fall into the same situation as Loyd and is the third player that I remember.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I think Jefferson became the leader after the Xmas break.

McGraw didn't have a good game plan to get Loyd the open shots she needed to make a difference in the game Monday.

McGraw's game plan was thwarted by Moriah, The Shorter Thwarter.

 

[delawarehusky]

ETT good to see you back . Hope things are ok with you. When you have some time, give us your take on the Baylor team this year.

 

[Striper69]

Sometimes when there's a superstar on a team, teammates unconsciously stand back and wait for her to make shots. We've seen it at UConn with the Diana Taurasi-led teams. It's not unusual for really good players, and ND has a lot of them, to rediscover how good they are after the superstar is gone and to play at a higher level.

And we shouldn't underestimate Muffet as a coach. She's almost as good at covering up weaknesses in a team as Geno is.

With all due respect: when ND has to know that UCONN is gonna key in on Jewell as the main offensive threat- Muffet had better prepare her team to take advantage of that. If the players didn't then it's on them.

 

[Striper69]

Fans identifying one player is greater because of 4 years instead of 3. I could be wrong but it seemed like it bothers you a bit if a fan gives another an edge/ or equates them because of 4 years vs 3. .

Who cares? They weren't paying her to play. She was playing of her own free will.

I don't give a cr@p about the ND "tradition" or whatnot. Yeah, they got a cool venue as Skylar showed us. Maybe Jewell was tired of seeing her Mother struggling etc. I had such a Mother but she didn't struggle cause my Dad took care of her. Maybe Jewel wants to make her life easier.

 

[Striper69]

McGraw's game plan was thwarted by Moriah, The Shorter Thwarter.

Precisely (although Nurse started guarding her).

 

[Orangutan]

That's what I don't like about the college game. Fans think they own the players (at least in women's BB) then some of them don't support them when they move on to the WNBA.
You don't hear people whining about the "One And Dones" in men's CBB.

How about being big about it and thanking her for what she gave to ND/wishing her luck?

I also wonder what would have happened if the shoe was on the other foot and Stewart was eligible to go for the draft and decided to leave early? It's really about the same thing on the UCONN side. UCONN doesn't win the title next year without her (and if Jewell had stayed).

I don't know why you quoted my post, because you certainly aren't responding to it.

I said that I respect her decision. As a fan of Jewell Loyd, I want the best for her. As a fan of ND, we'll really miss her on the court.

I can recognize that she's making the best choice for her and wish her well while at the same time being sad that it isn't also a choice that benefits ND.

 

[UcMiami]

Who cares? They weren't paying her to play. She was playing of her own free will.

I don't give a cr@p about the ND "tradition" or whatnot. Yeah, they got a cool venue as Skylar showed us. Maybe Jewell was tired of seeing her Mother struggling etc. I had such a Mother but she didn't struggle cause my Dad took care of her. Maybe Jewel wants to make her life easier.

Well - they were compensating her to the tune of a very expensive education.
And the fans were paying to watch the team - and with that 'buying' the right to like one player and not another or more than another. And the right to venerate one player more than another.

Geno at Uconn has a simple rule for his former players - you are not allowed back until you compete your degree. No reason fans can't use a similar distinction for their 'hall of fame'.

 

[JSB60]

It's bad for us too and for WCBB.

If you're talking about the general level of competition, ND wasn't all that much better than SC this year with Jewell, and SC with their freshmen will improve. If you're talking about wanting ND to retain a top program for the good of the game, my dislike of all things ND stops me from being objective.

 

[CocoHusky]

That's what I don't like about the college game. Fans think they own the players (at least in women's BB) then some of them don't support them when they move on to the WNBA.
You don't hear people whining about the "One And Dones" in men's CBB.
How about being big about it and thanking her for what she gave to ND/wishing her luck?

Well - they were compensating her to the tune of a very expensive education.
And the fans were paying to watch the team - and with that 'buying' the right to like one player and not another or more than another. And the right to venerate one player more than another.
Geno at Uconn has a simple rule for his former players - you are not allowed back until you compete your degree. No reason fans can't use a similar distinction for their 'hall of fame'.

UC while I definitely don't support the tone of Striper69's post but I support a small sentiment expressed in it. I agree that Jewell is being compensated with a ND education but there are limits on that compensation vs. what she can do with her WNBA compensation/paycheck. The latter allows her to pay her mom's utility bill if she so choose. The former expressly forbids it. Part of a bigger discussion maybe.

 

[UcMiami]

UC while I definitely don't support the tone of Striper69's post but I support a small sentiment expressed in it. I agree that Jewell is being compensated with a ND education but there are limits on that compensation vs. what she can do with her WNBA compensation/paycheck. The latter allows her to pay her mom's utility bill if she so choose. The former expressly forbids it. Part of a bigger discussion maybe.

Agree - it just seems Stripper feels that 'legacy' should be determined only by the quality of time on the court and not by the quantity.
I have no problem with Jewel leaving (I may disagree with the decision, but it is her decision to make) but the fact that she leaves early does have an effect on the legacy she leaves behind - both in raw numbers, and in fan's opinions.