Jeff Goodwin's Big East update
- Thread starter CL82
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Going to shoot Shaka some bail. One thing about not using the portal are these years where your teams may be super young.
Out of the top 7 players getting double digit minutes for Marquette 4 of them are underclassmen.
Only two players (Chase Ross and Ben Gold) are Seniors. This may be one of those rebuilding years for them as they wait for their sophomore class to grow up.
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You just don't understand the Big East.😎
The plan is to let UConn do well OOC, then stiff them in enough games to give others a win or two or three.
The league will look like it has a few more good teams while the others don't have to expend any effort with NIL or revenue sharing or roster building.
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No reason to have these seasons in this day and age. This is not 2008. Why take a year off after multiple disappointing season finishes? They start three upperclassmen and Ross is easily their best player. So you think rolling into next year with the underclassmen is a winning formula?
His sticking with Ben Gold, who is having a terrible year, is enough to tell me this isn’t strategy as much as it is stubbornness. Your team was terrible at rebounding for multiple years running - you think Ben Gold solves for that?
Until they tick off the golden goose enough. Then at the first opportunity, the golden goose leaves.
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Why cut Shaka some slack? My son in law is a Texas grad and a big fan. They hated Shaka and Texas and couldn’t wait to get rid of him. The same thing seems to be happening at Marquette. Once his initial shtick wears off his teams fade. Does he have some KO in him when it comes to recruiting and player development?
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They’re Marquette so they’ve been fine by their standards. Their recent classes have been talented (for them).
They have two sophomore bigs in Hamilton and Clark who are getting a lot of time this year in preparation to replace Gold.
Ross was a guy who averaged 10 PPG last year and he’s averaging 20 this year. Naturally, they’ll have another player step up. Maybe Lowery or Parham. They have a freshmen playing pretty well at PG too.
All of their top 100 recruits are underclassmen.
Sure, they could’ve used the portal to potentially get better. But there’s no guarantee they would’ve been good because of it. Don’t mind a down year while getting valuable reps for young guys for the next year in what is their most talented classes since Shaka has been there.
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It's not fine by their standards, they're usually a ranked tournament team. This season they're flat out bad, they won't make the tournament, and only one of their 5 new players for next season is a top 100 recruit, Alex Egbuonu at #76. Shaka's refusal to use the portal is killing Marquette.
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Just not the system that anyone but Shaka is running with these days. Now he has the media, fans all over him, and that hurts recruiting image. It becomes a systemic issue. There is no reason not to use the portal, and even if it doesn’t work you should try. You don’t need to endure a season when you don’t even have a chance at the tourney.
Even Painter smartened up.
While I hear you on the valuable reps, the problem in today's game is that some of those guys may still transfer out and enter the portal. You just never know the way things are. Coaches need to work both the portal and recruiting in today's game. You should not skew to one or the other, but use both to improve your roster.
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When you have a platform that offers you the opportunity to win every year, why ignore it? The idea is to give your team the best chance of winning every year, not playing for 2-3 years down the road because that's no guarantee either. Guys leave, guys get hurt, guys don't develop at the rate needed. Is rolling back these underclassmen a guarantee of anything? The more you ignore the portal, I would think the more top portal players also avoid you because they don't think you know how to work with them. It's a no win proposition.
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If it stays like this sure. Let’s see how next year and the year after goes though. Think they’ll be much better in those years.
Marquette has built a culture that guys transferring out isn’t a problem. The players there came in with an understanding that they have a coach committed to them and they commit to him in return.
Only reason they’d transfer is if he did change that commitment.
You’ve misread what I’ve said.
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Overall, long term Marquette and Georgetown will be fine.
Marquette is going to be up and down because of Shaka’s strategy unless they start convincing better recruits to go to Wisconsin. He’s relying on a system of grooming fringe top 100 guys which takes time.
Georgetown has shown they are willing to bring in talent through every avenue and has been good doing it. Once they get their footing, I expect them to replace St John’s once Pitino retires as our main rivals.
Think Willard can make noise at Nova once he gets that ship moving.
I have no idea how good McDermott is without Kalkbrenner. It seems like he was there forever.
Everyone else in the conference is meh. I hope Holloway moves on to a team with better resources in conference to compete. Maybe replace Pitino at St John’s when he’s done.
This conference needs great coaches at all of the east coast schools with the history, prestige, and resources to attract the talent to compete with us.
Marquette is going to be up and down because of Shaka’s strategy unless they start convincing better recruits to go to Wisconsin. He’s relying on a system of grooming fringe top 100 guys which takes time.
Georgetown has shown they are willing to bring in talent through every avenue and has been good doing it. Once they get their footing, I expect them to replace St John’s once Pitino retires as our main rivals.
Think Willard can make noise at Nova once he gets that ship moving.
I have no idea how good McDermott is without Kalkbrenner. It seems like he was there forever.
Everyone else in the conference is meh. I hope Holloway moves on to a team with better resources in conference to compete. Maybe replace Pitino at St John’s when he’s done.
This conference needs great coaches at all of the east coast schools with the history, prestige, and resources to attract the talent to compete with us.
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Next year and the year after, lol. Hey, Shaka has something going here - team should be good in 2028. It's a long term plan. Gold Eagle fans, be patient for these two years, we'll be GREAT in that third year. Says no other top coach.
Shaheen moving in conference from his alma mater seems like a long shot.
This is going to be Cooley's third year without a tourney invite? And you think they'll be fine?
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One bad year since he’s been here is not the end of the world. Let’s see if they become a tourney team again next year.
He should. I hope he does for his sake. He deserves better.
There’s context to Cooley missing the tournament. I don’t think people realize how big Vince was for Georgetown this year. They looked really good before he went down.
Health has been the main reason for their struggles and they’re starting to bring in more and more talent.
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Painter smartening up meaning bringing in 1 transfer recruit that’s currently in the rotation.
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He brought the kid in out of S. Illinois for their Final 4 run. I don't think he'll ever go overboard, but he's showing he can flex when needed. Cluff is going to be massive for them this year. What would Marquette look like if they grabbed him? You end up having a true center who can board, maybe swing Gold to a 4 and go big as he's more of a shooter than a paint guy. One piece goes a long way.
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Sure, Shaka has a leash. This looks like a throw away year. But if he keeps throwing up stinkers while avoiding the portal, that leash will shorten fast. His system is kinda cr@p too - typically wears his team out in the early season with the helter skelter TO driving defense, then look broken come March. What's scary for them this year is that usually they come out guns blazin and then teeter off in March.
Maybe he's going in the reverse with it this year!
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I'm a Big East guy, but boy, that's ugly - and not surprising given how ugly the OOC results have been. This is comparable to some of the AAC years.
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Why do you say that? Obviously the more data it collects, the more reliable it is, but it tends to be pretty accurate, at least as a grouping mechanism (which is also what NET is), even this early in the season.
Unfortunately, with conference play fast approaching, the league's fate is already mostly sealed. Some teams will move up and others will move down as the season plays out, but the net result will be the same. UConn's done enough in the OOC to maintain credibility as a possible protected seed, but it will have to win a lot and by the expected margins.
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It’s the trajectory that’s more concerning than just this one year. 29 wins in 2023, 27 in 2024, 23 last year, on pace for less than that this year
They did have the sweet 16 but they beat two double digit seed teams and then got punked by a third one in that run. That’s the outlier instead of the trend as Shaka’s other seasons have been two 1st round exits and a 2nd round exit
Maybe the underclassmen grow up and lead them back to success in the next few years, but in today’s game it doesn’t have to be that way. They easily could have picked up some portal players and developed young guys at the same time for a better season
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Shaka’s system in the current world is a recipe to be pretty good 2 out of every 4 years unless you absolutely crush multiple recruiting classes (which is hard to do when most of your targets are top 100 to 50 guys.
Cooley is a good coach and Georgetown is near the top of the conference in terms of resource commitments, but their ceiling is also “pretty good”.
Creighton is having an off year under McDermott, but they’re done as soon as he is.
Cooley is a good coach and Georgetown is near the top of the conference in terms of resource commitments, but their ceiling is also “pretty good”.
Creighton is having an off year under McDermott, but they’re done as soon as he is.
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That can change awfully quickly when you’re not winning. Good players on a bad team may look to go somewhere where they can win.
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I strongly disagree Creighton will be done when McDermott is done. Huss recruited those guys who have made them so successful and he did a great job at High Point. I think this is a succession plan that will work out very well.
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That’s a very fair point as far as trajectory goes. If they don’t get back to being really good next year Shaka may have to look at some changes.
Thats the issue with Shaka. They really don’t recruit well enough to be consistently good. At best they’re getting the 75th best player in the class.
If he could actually get top 50 recruits who can make a good impact their freshman year it may work better but he’s not.
I’d say Georgetown’s ceiling is as high as anyone’s. They have the history, resources, and they’re in a recruiting hotbed. They don’t have to go more than an hour away from their school to build a great roster.
Before Ewing screwed everything up, they were one of the top programs in the country. Cooley is doing his best Hurley impression to put the pieces back together.
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They also have massive fan support and will pivot if the succession doesn't go well. They're probably the last Big East team I'm worried about long term
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They didn’t make it to a second weekend because they underperformed in the tournament. But they were consistently a top 10 team and had a NPOY as recently as 2012. They also made it to a Sweet 16 that year
I know championships are the only measure of success for us, but other programs aren’t as fortunate and have to look at other factors for success too lol
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Hard to know - McDermott is a culture builder and great in game strategist, he's kind of their brand and that's not really a brand that carries outside of the coach. It's a small Catholic in Omaha in the middle of football country, not exactly what I would call a hoops destination.
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