Jeff Goodwin's Big East update

[HW611]

I think you and @HW611 are cutting Cooley too much slack here. It's not 2018 anymore. New coaches are almost always tasked with replacing an entire roster upon arrival, and most of the good ones have no trouble finding ways to compete immediately. For Georgetown to still be losing to teams like Dayton and Miami in the third year of Cooley's tenure doesn't cut it. Not saying it's entirely his fault because I don't know what kinds of conversations take place between boosters, admin, etc. But we can't have it both ways where Georgetown is one of the top jobs in the country and Cooley gets to be graded with kid gloves.

As I said before, injuries.

They beat Maryland and Clemson previously before Vince went down. He was kind of their anchor off the bench. Averaged more minutes, rebounds, and 2 blocks a game over Julius. It was a huge loss for them.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

As I said before, injuries.

They beat Maryland and Clemson previously before Vince went down. He was kind of their anchor off the bench. Averaged more minutes, rebounds, and 2 blocks a game over Julius. It was a huge loss for them.

Clemson is a good win, Maryland doesn’t really move the needle for me. I hear your point on injuries but at some point he actually has to produce some results, regardless of excuses. Plenty of teams have injuries and are built in a way to play through that.

 

[HW611]

Clemson is a good win, Maryland doesn’t really move the needle for me. I hear your point on injuries but at some point he actually has to produce some results, regardless of excuses. Plenty of teams have injuries and are built in a way to play through that.

If one of his guards had an injury that would be the case. They’re deep on the perimeter.

But both years these injuries have come from his bigs. Could make a case Vince was Georgetown’s most effective one.

Sober, obviously, was a lottery pick last year.

Would’ve liked to see what a healthy Georgetown did against Dayton and Miami.

 

[freescooter]

Overall, long term Marquette and Georgetown will be fine.

Marquette is going to be up and down because of Shaka’s strategy unless they start convincing better recruits to go to Wisconsin. He’s relying on a system of grooming fringe top 100 guys which takes time.

Georgetown has shown they are willing to bring in talent through every avenue and has been good doing it. Once they get their footing, I expect them to replace St John’s once Pitino retires as our main rivals.

Think Willard can make noise at Nova once he gets that ship moving.

I have no idea how good McDermott is without Kalkbrenner. It seems like he was there forever.

Everyone else in the conference is meh. I hope Holloway moves on to a team with better resources in conference to compete. Maybe replace Pitino at St John’s when he’s done.

This conference needs great coaches at all of the east coast schools with the history, prestige, and resources to attract the talent to compete with us.

UConn has that. It isn’t 1983 any more. Georgetown hasn’t been even relevant for 20 years. St John’s has been at best a sweet 16 team for 40 years and rarely that good. Providence well Ernie D is 74. The east coast schools have about as much prestige as LaSalle. Only Villanova and the Huskies have done anything in the past 20 years. The rest have varied between bad and meh . Beginning in the late 1990s the power shifted in the Big East from the Catholic schools to the larger, better funded and better equipped football schools. Syracuse, PITT, West Virginia, UConn, became the powers. When the New Big East was formed in 2013 it looked like the Catholics were back but it was largely an optical illusion. Only Villanova, who had been the only Catholic 7 member to hang with the bigger schools, emerged as the power. The others got bids but were not really that good. Typically they went out in the first or 2nd round just as you’d expect. In the old Big East they’d have likely been mid level programs.

 

[HW611]

UConn has that. It isn’t 1983 any more. Georgetown hasn’t been even relevant for 20 years. St John’s has been at best a sweet 16 team for 40 years and rarely that good. Providence well Ernie D is 74. The east coast schools have about as much prestige as LaSalle. Only Villanova and the Huskies have done anything in the past 20 years. The rest have varied between bad and meh . Beginning in the late 1990s the power shifted in the Big East from the Catholic schools to the larger, better funded and better equipped football schools. Syracuse, PITT, West Virginia, UConn, became the powers. When the New Big East was formed in 2013 it looked like the Catholics were back but it was largely an optical illusion. Only Villanova, who had been the only Catholic 7 member to hang with the bigger schools, emerged as the power. The others got bids but were not really that good. Typically they went out in the first or 2nd round just as you’d expect. In the old Big East they’d have likely been mid level programs.

Again, Georgetown had a NPOY in 2013 and was the #1 team in the country at a point that year.

I’m not sure where the 20 years come from. They were relevant all the way up until the Big East blew up. Pretty much every Big East power has faltered, including us, since then.

 

[freescooter]

They didn’t make it to a second weekend because they underperformed in the tournament. But they were consistently a top 10 team and had a NPOY as recently as 2012. They also made it to a Sweet 16 that year

I know championships are the only measure of success for us, but other programs aren’t as fortunate and have to look at other factors for success too lol

You do know it is 2025-26 right? 2012 was 14 years ago.

 

[HW611]

You do know it is 2025-26 right? 2012 was 14 years ago.

Again, they went through the same tailspin every powerhouse in the Old Big East went through at that time once the conference destructed.

 

[freescooter]

Again, Georgetown had a NPOY in 2013 and was the #1 team in the country at a point that year.

I’m not sure where the 20 years come from. They were relevant all the way up until the Big East blew up. Pretty much every Big East power has faltered, including us, since then.

2013 was 13 years ago. Was that the mighty Georgetown team that lost in the first round to that other national powerhouse Florida Gulf Coast? Good grief. If anything that proves my point. Utterly overrated.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Again, Georgetown had a NPOY in 2013 and was the #1 team in the country at a point that year.

I’m not sure where the 20 years come from. They were relevant all the way up until the Big East blew up. Pretty much every Big East power has faltered, including us, since then.

Otto Porter was a consensus first team AA but he wasn't NPOY.

 

[HW611]

Otto Porter was a consensus first team AA but he wasn't NPOY.

That’s correct and my mistake. Like you said he was still a consensus AA so the point still stands.

Pretty much no Big East powerhouse went through the conference breakup unscathed.

 

[CL82]

Again, Georgetown had a NPOY in 2013 and was the #1 team in the country at a point that year.

I’m not sure where the 20 years come from. They were relevant all the way up until the Big East blew up. Pretty much every Big East power has faltered, including us, since then.

Seems like you may have missed a few of these...

 

[HW611]

Seems like you may have missed a few of these...

Reading comprehension is hard

 

[CL82]

Reading comprehension is hard

Well, keep practicing. I'm sure it'll come to you in time.

 

[freescooter]

That’s correct and my mistake. Like you said he was still a consensus AA so the point still stands.

Pretty much no Big East powerhouse went through the conference breakup unscathed.

You’re kidding right? It was a blessing for most of the Catholics. St John’s, PC, and the rest couldn’t sniff the tournament in the later Big East days. After the breakup they suddenly had a chance. They were THRILLED not to have to play UConn, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt, Louisville, some multiple time, every year.

 

[Lafayette]

World is changing my man - and it's changing fast. The Big10 has 2 of the top 4 teams in the country this year, and the best conference this year. This is not 2018, it's 2025.

Gonzaga can do it because they have a genius at head coach - the Few's are few (get it) and far between.

Did you not see how scratch the Elite 8 was last year? It's going to look more and more like football. The mid majors and low high majors will be minor league systems for the real high majors.

Yet Gonzaga got clobbered by Michigan…game was not even remotely close sorta like our ‘24 march madness beat downs

 

[Tyler2Rings]

I’m not sure where the 20 years come from. They were relevant all the way up until the Big East blew up. Pretty much every Big East power has faltered, including us, since then

Reading comprehension is hard

Help me out. We have won half of our championships since the Big East blew up in 2012. Maybe I'm having trouble comprehending your use of the word "faltered"?

 

[HooperScooper]

Help me out. We have won half of our championships since the Big East blew up in 2012. Maybe I'm having trouble comprehending your use of the word "faltered"?

I think he's referencing the last 2 Ollie years. But it was definitely a short lived downturn. Not like Georgetown's or St. John's.

 

[ctbro1999]

I think he's referencing the last 2 Ollie years. But it was definitely a short lived downturn. Not like Georgetown's or St. John's.

Those last 2 years felt like 20 though. Getting blown out by 30 every other week was rough...
Ollie's last season....I mean grossssssssss. Barely beating powerhouses Stony Brook, Monmouth, and Columbia at home, getting boat raced by Arkansas, Mich St, Auburn, Arizona, etc. Then being Nova's and Houston's whipping boy in conference, along with Wichita St and Temple?! Definitely do not miss those years.

 

[Fan1978]

Going to shoot Shaka some bail. One thing about not using the portal are these years where your teams may be super young.

Out of the top 7 players getting double digit minutes for Marquette 4 of them are underclassmen.

Only two players (Chase Ross and Ben Gold) are Seniors. This may be one of those rebuilding years for them as they wait for their sophomore class to grow up.

Shaka’s strategy is idiotic. His best player on his good times was a transfer (kolik). He is the dabo sweeney of college basketball

 

[HW611]

I think he's referencing the last 2 Ollie years. But it was definitely a short lived downturn. Not like Georgetown's or St. John's.

St John’s was never good. But teams like Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, etc. have all had their share of down moments.

 

[HooperScooper]

St John’s was never good.

Huh? How old are you?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/men/

 

[HW611]

Huh? How old are you?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/men/

Never good was wrong.

I’ll say by the time the Big East broke up it had already been awhile since they were good.

Like in 2013 the powerhouses were all powerhouses and had been for all of the 2000s up until that point.