j im Calhoun Sounds Like He's Nearing Retirement

[freescooter]

Fair points. But you are intellectualizing an emotional issue. No matter who becomes the next coach there will be a wide range of acceptability and disapproval because of the diversity of the expectations amongst the vast fan base and because that coach (or coaches) will always be measured against one of the most successful coaches in his genre. The only way that coach will be universally accepted is to win NC quickly and frequently.

The question you are asking is similar to someone asking which way they prefer their hamburger cooked, raw, medium or well done. The problem is they prefer steak and they got it cooked to perfection with JC and now have to settle for hamburger. It probably won't make any difference how it is cooked unless the person believes it is steak.

Well that was a lot of nonsense...I think it is a pretty simple, straightforward question. I'm not asking you to answer for bizlaw. What are your standards? I'll tell you what I'd expect...I think 2012-13 we won't be very good. Too much turmoil, last minute coaching change, no front court to speak of, and relatively speaking a pretty tough non-conference schedule, little to play for really. So given all that I'd think 16-17 wins would be expected. After that, though, I'd expect to get back to the NCAA by 2014, and would want regularly to win at least 23-25 games, finish in the Top 5 in the Big East and make at least one deep (Elite 8) NCAA run within 3 years, not counting 2012-13. Anything less and its here's you hat, what's you hurry. So lets say this:
2013: 16-14 (I can't actually recall the exact number of games this year but you get the idea.)
2014 21-9 NCAA
2015 25-5 NCAA Elite 8
2016 19-11 NIT
2017 24-6 NCAA Sweet 16.

I'm using an average of 30 games per season and these are regular season records not including post season games. If I recall correctly the NCAA rules are between 29 and 31 regular season games depending on what and how many in-season tournaments you play in. That is more or less what I'm looking for from the next coach. A game or two one way or the other, an NIT in 14 followed by the NCAA in 15 would all be fine...but NIT, NIT, would not be acceptable. Given what he'll be taking over, 3 NCAA trips and 1 deep run in the next 5 years is crucial to maintaining UConn's place as a basketball elite.

 

[EricLA]

My expectations? Legit shot at a final 4 every 5 years or so. in between, average about 20 wins per season. And win the BET every once in a while. A lot of things have to go right for any team to win the NCAA's, but UCONN should be able to put a team together every 5 years or so that's good enough to make a final 4 run, or at the very least, a run to the elite 8...

Historically, we've made 9 elite 8 appearance since 1990. but in the last 12 years, we've been to four final 4's. I get that a new guy may never have the success Calhoun has had (especially NC's), but if a guy like Ollie can recruit as well as we think he can, there's every reason to be hopeful that there won't be a huge drop off.

 

[ctchamps]

I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my dog on March 13 of this year also (he was a rescue from a NYC shelter and passed at 15 1/2 yrs old). Truly devastated and still am. It is interesting that we share such a common bond!

Sorry for your loss as well.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Sorry for your loss as well.

Thank you...

 

[ctchamps]

Well that was a lot of nonsense...I think it is a pretty simple, straightforward question. I'm not asking you to answer for bizlaw. What are your standards? I'll tell you what I'd expect...I think 2012-13 we won't be very good. Too much turmoil, last minute coaching change, no front court to speak of, and relatively speaking a pretty tough non-conference schedule, little to play for really. So given all that I'd think 16-17 wins would be expected. After that, though, I'd expect to get back to the NCAA by 2014, and would want regularly to win at least 23-25 games, finish in the Top 5 in the Big East and make at least one deep (Elite 8) NCAA run within 3 years, not counting 2012-13. Anything less and its here's you hat, what's you hurry. So lets say this:
2013: 16-14 (I can't actually recall the exact number of games this year but you get the idea.)
2014 21-9 NCAA
2015 25-5 NCAA Elite 8
2016 19-11 NIT
2017 24-6 NCAA Sweet 16.

I'm using an average of 30 games per season and these are regular season records not including post season games. If I recall correctly the NCAA rules are between 29 and 31 regular season games depending on what and how many in-season tournaments you play in. That is more or less what I'm looking for from the next coach. A game or two one way or the other, an NIT in 14 followed by the NCAA in 15 would all be fine...but NIT, NIT, would not be acceptable. Given what he'll be taking over, 3 NCAA trips and 1 deep run in the next 5 years is crucial to maintaining UConn's place as a basketball elite.

Losing AD, AO, RS and JL and you lose almost all of the rebounding from last season's team. I like TO's hustle but his hops are limited and his hand strength is questionable. None of the other players have demonstrated things as of yet.

RB and SN are a decent tandem to start with, but without any inside presence, they can be pressured into turnovers. Going with a three guard line up will most likely be the norm but you will be integrating at least one new player and perhaps two at the guard position for much of the game. It takes time to get people on the same page especially when teams incorporate three guards. I like Niels, but he hasn't shown he can be a go to guy.

So on paper this season is very questionable. I would not be surprised with a 16-14 season. But the truth is this team really only has two returnees with significant playing time and two with supporting minutes. So no one knows how good or bad they'll be.

2014: Hard to assess not knowing how 2013 shapes up. I would guess 3-4 more wins than 2013 but I used a glass orb.
2015: Same orb. 3-4 more wins and an NIT appearance.
2016: 23 wins and team makes an early exit from NCAA
2017: sweet sixteen or better.

Of course this is all nonsense because we have no clue what is going on with recruiting and how other teams that UConn faces are recruiting. Furthermore, you are setting the bar high because if it doesn't get met you have ammo to blame JC for the results. And if KO is selected, there will be no convincing you that WM and SH were not pressured into the choice by JC whether it is true or not because your mind is already closed on the issue. And if KO is chosen and exceeds mine or your expectations you won't show up on this board, because the majority of people will be giving kudo's to JC for maintaining the program. Of course if KO is selected and under performs then you will be posting frequently. And if KO isn't selected you'll still come back if the chosen coach underperforms and blame JC and not WM.

And I didn't need a glass orb to predict your future posting. It is etched in stone. You are to JC what Chief is to Dyson.

 

[hungry husky]

My dad texted me today saying that Calhoun retired. He misinterpreted the SI article, but I thought it was a sick joke.

 

[mauconnfan]

The gap was also because the dog of 15 1/2 years decided to retire from life. I've had other pets lost. This one was the hardest. Too much pain to offer advice or help to others. Still hurting actually, which is why I'm a little snarky.

Sorry to hear of your loss.......I get that......awful stuff. They are family, the wag of the tail when you get home and the constant loyalty never wanes......My girl (Black Lab Amber) is my best friend away from the family.....walks every night and morning when possible and never anything but positive!!! Tough times I'm sure and I feel bad for you and do not want that day tocome for me and my family although it will eventually....

 

[CL82]

The gap was also because the dog of 15 1/2 years decided to retire from life. I've had other pets lost. This one was the hardest. Too much pain to offer advice or help to others. Still hurting actually, which is why I'm a little snarky.

I'm sorry to hear it. After a long time without a dog, I got a new rescue this Spring. I had forgotten just how much they become fixture in your life. She's a great dog and will be very tough to say goodbye to when the time comes.

 

[ctchamps]

I'm sorry to hear it. After a long time without a dog, I got a new rescue this Spring. I had forgotten just how much they become fixture in your life. She's a great dog and will be very tough to say goodbye to when the time comes.

Thanks. May she bring you much happiness.

 

[Huskies4ever]

My dad texted me today saying that Calhoun retired. He misinterpreted the SI article, but I thought it was a sick joke.

It's a good thing I don't know where you live! I read that first sentence, and my heart skipped a couple of beats!

 

[Huskies4ever]

The gap was also because the dog of 15 1/2 years decided to retire from life. I've had other pets lost. This one was the hardest. Too much pain to offer advice or help to others. Still hurting actually, which is why I'm a little snarky.

Sorry, Fleud. I know how you feel. I've lost 7 dogs in my life and currently have 12 year old which ties the longest lived dog we have had. It's always hard. They truly are man's best friend.

 

[freescooter]

Losing AD, AO, RS and JL and you lose almost all of the rebounding from last season's team. I like TO's hustle but his hops are limited and his hand strength is questionable. None of the other players have demonstrated things as of yet.

RB and SN are a decent tandem to start with, but without any inside presence, they can be pressured into turnovers. Going with a three guard line up will most likely be the norm but you will be integrating at least one new player and perhaps two at the guard position for much of the game. It takes time to get people on the same page especially when teams incorporate three guards. I like Niels, but he hasn't shown he can be a go to guy.

So on paper this season is very questionable. I would not be surprised with a 16-14 season. But the truth is this team really only has two returnees with significant playing time and two with supporting minutes. So no one knows how good or bad they'll be.

2014: Hard to assess not knowing how 2013 shapes up. I would guess 3-4 more wins than 2013 but I used a glass orb.
2015: Same orb. 3-4 more wins and an NIT appearance.
2016: 23 wins and team makes an early exit from NCAA
2017: sweet sixteen or better.

Of course this is all nonsense because we have no clue what is going on with recruiting and how other teams that UConn faces are recruiting. Furthermore, you are setting the bar high because if it doesn't get met you have ammo to blame JC for the results. And if KO is selected, there will be no convincing you that WM and SH were not pressured into the choice by JC whether it is true or not because your mind is already closed on the issue. And if KO is chosen and exceeds mine or your expectations you won't show up on this board, because the majority of people will be giving kudo's to JC for maintaining the program. Of course if KO is selected and under performs then you will be posting frequently. And if KO isn't selected you'll still come back if the chosen coach underperforms and blame JC and not WM.

And I didn't need a glass orb to predict your future posting. It is etched in stone. You are to JC what Chief is to Dyson.

First off, I am sorry to hear about your dog. Losing a long time pet is always tough...

But on the issue at hand, I'm not asking you to predict how UConn will do under Ollie. As you rightly point out, that is impossible to know. What I really want to know is what you think will be acceptable. Will it be acceptable to become say Cincinatti? Sort of a mid-level Big East team that gets an8-10 seed in the NCAAs and ususally goes down in round 1 or 2? If he doesn't get them inot the NCAAs after 2 seasons will you give him 3? This is UConn and I think the next coach has to be pretty darned successful out of the box. Again I give you 2012-13. I doubt we'll be much of a basketball team this year. But going forward I will be expecting a quick turn around and ongoing success. If we're 3 years in and still going ot NITs, its time to change coaches.

 

[ctchamps]

Sorry, Fleud. I know how you feel. I've lost 7 dogs in my life and currently have 12 year old which ties the longest lived dog we have had. It's always hard. They truly are man's best friend.

Thanks.

 

[ctchamps]

First off, I am sorry to hear about your dog. Losing a long time pet is always tough...

But on the issue at hand, I'm not asking you to predict how UConn will do under Ollie. As you rightly point out, that is impossible to know. What I really want to know is what you think will be acceptable. Will it be acceptable to become say Cincinatti? Sort of a mid-level Big East team that gets an8-10 seed in the NCAAs and ususally goes down in round 1 or 2? If he doesn't get them inot the NCAAs after 2 seasons will you give him 3? This is UConn and I think the next coach has to be pretty darned successful out of the box. Again I give you 2012-13. I doubt we'll be much of a basketball team this year. But going forward I will be expecting a quick turn around and ongoing success. If we're 3 years in and still going ot NITs, its time to change coaches.

Thanks for the condolence.

My hope is that the team goes undefeated every year. I would love that. And I'd hate for the program to become mediocre or worse. But if it turns out that way I wouldn't become one of the many people who will turn into the queen of hearts, which is what I suspect will happen from lots of fans and alumni.

I know I'm a minority by a long shot, but I find it sad that its our nature not to be content by things. My hopes pre JC was one or two victories against the likes of Georgetown, Cuse, Nova or St. John's. And maybe in my dreams I hoped not to be the 8-9 team come tournament time. I never expected UConn to be the premier program in the BE and have three NC's. Every time there is some controversy or the team doesn't meet my expectations, I flash back to my mental state pre JC and relive the events since he became head coach. I'm one happy dude. I have three lifetimes of satisfaction.

Yes I'm sad I lost my dog. I'm sad I've lost friends and family over the years. I'm sad I'm getting older and unable to do the things I did when I was younger. But I'm also happy I had the opportunity to have known the people and animals I've lost and to have had the many wonderful experiences that made up my life. The memories can't (and won't) be taken away from me. So at this moment things are bittersweet. And I expect that if the worse case scenario takes place with the men's bb program I'll feel the same way.

 

[freescooter]

I think your view is representative of a lot of the Olliefiles (and maybe Calhoun too in some ways). They really view the Calhoun era as something of a fluke, if a fairly long running one. Going forward they really don't think that UConn will continue to be among the elite, in some ways they don't even want that. They would be happy to be a mid-level Big East team that occassionally makes a run at the NCAA tourney but without any expectation of ever winning again. They'll happily look back on those days in Camelot, and having an untested inexperienced guy at the helm is perfectly fine. If he's not that good, well, that's fine because he is connected to he legend that was once here...I have a very different view...I think that we have become a national power and we're not going back. I will be exceedingly disappointed if the only thing we have to show in the 30 years after our last title is 2 final four appearances as Georgetown does since their last title. If in the 15 years after Calhoun, if our best is 1 Final four and 2 Sweet 16s, like Georgetown in the post Thompson I era you bet I'll be complaining about the coaches.

 

[caw]

I think your view is representative of a lot of the Olliefiles (and maybe Calhoun too in some ways). They really view the Calhoun era as something of a fluke, if a fairly long running one. Going forward they really don't think that UConn will continue to be among the elite, in some ways they don't even want that. They would be happy to be a mid-level Big East team that occassionally makes a run at the NCAA tourney but without any expectation of ever winning again. They'll happily look back on those days in Camelot, and having an untested inexperienced guy at the helm is perfectly fine. If he's not that good, well, that's fine because he is connected to he legend that was once here...I have a very different view...I think that we have become a national power and we're not going back. I will be exceedingly disappointed if the only thing we have to show in the 30 years after our last title is 2 final four appearances as Georgetown does since their last title. If in the 15 years after Calhoun, if our best is 1 Final four and 2 Sweet 16s, like Georgetown in the post Thompson I era you bet I'll be complaining about the coaches.

Minimum expectations? That can't include wanting a FF or NC, IMO. What is the time-frame for the next coach to achieve a FF or NC, if that is your expectation?

If the next coach has UConn as a top 20 school most every year with second weekend NCAAT runs, and a few bounces from elite eights/final fours, I think he will have met expectations.

This goes for any coach that follows Calhoun. I expect them to hit that pace by their third year. I would want 4-5 sweet sixteens in the next 10 years, minimum, remember I'm giving them 2 bad years to start, so it's really 4-5 sweet sixteens in 8 years.

 

[Waquoit]

Minimum expectations? That can't include wanting a FF or NC, IMO.

I believe former AD John Toner was the master of minimum expectations. He once said there no reason why UConn couldn't be in the Top 5 of the Big East within the next 5 years. And that was when it was a 9-team league.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

After reading all 7 pages of this thread, I keep coming back to my same desire for JC to retire with more wins than Adolph Rupp. He's only one behind.

Then I see it'll take 5 more to beat Dean Smith and think, "Why not? There are enough early season games against light competition."

After that, I start wondering about 28 more wins to beat Bob Knight, and feel a little blue that last season's weirdness and the off-season's impact on the upcoming season have put this one in jeopardy, when it would have seemed like a slam dunk a year ago.

Then I wonder why on earth I'm spending so much foolishness on the future when I simply could have exited this thread and gone in search for something about 2014 recruiting.

 

[CL82]

I believe former AD John Toner was the master of minimum expectations. He once said there no reason why UConn couldn't be in the Top 5 of the Big East within the next 5 years. And that was when it was a 9-team league.

To be fair, that quote was during the Dom Perno era so it might have seemed unreasonably optimistic at the time. In fact members of the Horde were calling for us to leave the Big East as we could never compete with basketball powers like Georgetown and St. Johns.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm in the Fishy camp on this one. If Calhoun is pulling this stunt so that he can circumvent the resistance of the AD and President to name Ollie the coach in waiting, I'll be pissed. We deserve the best coach we can get, not the one he chooses. It's not his decision to make.

So in my mind he's on thin ice. The bike accident leaves him some flexibility, but I think he's milking it now, and possibly to manipulate the university. If I'm Warde Manuel I tell JC straight up that if he retires on the eve of the season, Ollie will not be named the coach. Make Hobbs the interim coach and conduct a search.

 

[Waquoit]

In fact members of the Horde were calling for us to leave the Big East as we could never compete with basketball powers like Georgetown and St. Johns.

I always though that was urban myth. I inhaled all UConn media in those days and don't remember that. I remember people saying that later, after Calhoun started having some success. Maybe one guy wrote one column somewhere along the line. Most folks knew UConn could compete. Hell, we gave G'Town their biggest loss that Fred Brown year, and that was at McDonough.

 

[freescooter]

I always though that was urban myth. I inhaled all UConn media in those days and don't remember that. I remember people saying that later, after Calhoun started having some success. Maybe one guy wrote one column somewhere along the line. Most folks knew UConn could compete. Hell, we gave G'Town their biggest loss that Fred Brown year, and that was at McDonough.

I'm somewhat on your side here. I'm not sure it was exactly an urban myth, but it was not anything anyone was pursuing at UConn. It occassionally came up in conversation and likely in th eodd column in th elocal press, but it wasn't like a serious movement. And it wasn't like UConn was horrible for its entire Big East life. In fact, but "modern" standards, with the 64 team NCAA tourney, there were at least a couple of UConn teams in the earley big East days that would have been liley NCAA teams. But in the 36 and 48 team tourneies, they didn't make the cut.

 

[guyergym]

I always though that was urban myth. I inhaled all UConn media in those days and don't remember that. I remember people saying that later, after Calhoun started having some success. Maybe one guy wrote one column somewhere along the line. Most folks knew UConn could compete. Hell, we gave G'Town their biggest loss that Fred Brown year, and that was at McDonough.

I went to UConn from 1983-87. It wasn't an overwhelming chorus by any means. The biggest "Get out of the Big East" guy was Scott Gray on WTIC. When the program hit its low point in January of 1987, when Phil Gamble and Cliff Robinson were declared ineligible, he beat the drum pretty hard, but I don't think a lot of other guys did.

 

[Waquoit]

I went to UConn from 1983-87. It wasn't an overwhelming chorus by any means. The biggest "Get out of the Big East" guy was Scott Gray on WTIC. When the program hit its low point in January of 1987, when Phil Gamble and Cliff Robinson were declared ineligible, he beat the drum pretty hard, but I don't think a lot of other guys did.

Now I believe that. He is the biggest sports moron in the area. It’s amazing he still has a job. He swore the Rams were moving to Hartford. He defended Dom Perno to the very end. If you recall, they gave him the WTIC Sports Talk gig, but he was so bad they moved him where he is now. I’ll never forget , they had a CBB “expert” on and someone asked him what he thought about Perno. This was about three years after Corny, when Perno was only recruiting guys name Terry. The expert put it just right, “he said sometimes when a program gets to a point where bigger things are expected (talking about the Corny years) and you don’t deliver, it’s very hard to get the momentum going again without a change.” A bit later Grey was going on and on about how Perno was still the guy. Looie loved him, Rollie loved him, etc. I called in and reminded him about the expert. He says, “Out of 100 people, you quote the one guy who says he’s not a good coach.” I gave up calling the numbnut.
And don't forget, when the program hit that low point you mention, the first thing they did was beat BCU at BCU.