Is UConn dying?

[intlzncster]

It's not the same for them, for almost all of them it's a step up from where they were. It's a huge step down for us, zero geographic or cultural fit, and an impediment in recruting.

And yet, we can still pull Top 10-15 classes regularly with the right guy. KO did three years ago. And Hurley's currently got that going.

Jay Wright regularly has #20-35 ranked classes, and yet he rolls. He's in the BE, so really, if what we are talking about is true, he should usually have Top 10 classes?

It's not the conference. It's the coach.

 

[BY06518]

Why doesn't it hurt the other schools to the same degree? Why is Memphis attracting some of the top talent in the land as we speak? In a word, coaching.

And in case we forget, in 2016, we had a Top 10-15 recruiting class. Right now we currently sit at the same for next year.

The other schools aren't trying for east coast kids, who would rather play for an east coast or major conference school.

 

[intlzncster]

The other schools aren't trying for east coast kids, who would rather play for an east coast or major conference school.

East coast basketball players have a different mentality than everyone else in the country?

 

[superjohn]

And yet, we can still pull Top 10-15 classes regularly with the right guy. KO did three years ago. And Hurley's currently got that going.

Jay Wright regularly has #20-35 ranked classes, and yet he rolls. He's in the BE, so really, if what we are talking about is true, he should usually have Top 10 classes?

It's not the conference. It's the coach.

You haven't been paying attention to Jay Wright's recruiting or ours.

 

[Chin Diesel]

CT is a state which is the size of counties in other states. It has 160+ towns, most of which reject any regionalism even when it would make life easier for all.

And people on this board have trouble understanding the fan base's tribalism of supporting some UConn sports while ignoring or hoping for other sports' failures.

 

[BY06518]

East coast basketball players have a different mentality than everyone else in the country?

If given the choice between playing 20-26 games a year where family and friends can attend or having to play in a conference and play in Wichita Kansas or Tulsa where are they going to choose? Not to mention our games are on ESPN U or ESPN News. Our conference doesn't have good national exposure.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Somewhere, Gene DeFilippo Jr. is laughing manically like Lord Voldemort after Moldyshorts got the Elder Wand upon reading this story...

 

[intlzncster]

You haven't been paying attention to Jay Wright's recruiting or ours.

Nova recruiting class rankings:

From 247
2016 - 45
2015 - 29
2014 - 48
2013 - 36
2012 - 27

From ESPN
2016 - 33
2015 - 24
2014 - 37
2013 - 31
2012 - >25

Those classes led to 2 National Championships.

 

[temery]

The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor....

 

[superjohn]

Nova recruiting class rankings:

From 247
2016 - 45
2015 - 29
2014 - 48
2013 - 36
2012 - 27

From ESPN
2016 - 33
2015 - 24
2014 - 37
2013 - 31
2012 - >25

Those classes led to 2 National Championships.

Nova followed up their top 10 class this year with the #2 class next year. We currently have the #17th class, we had a nothing class this year (117th in the country) and 84th the year before. Our one major class was the Gilbert, Durham, Jackson, Diarra, Vital class of which three of the players were injured and two transferred.

 

[HooperScooper]

The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor....

 

[billybud]

UConn's brand IS basketball....nothing wrong with that...as Indiana's once was and Kentucky and Kansas' now are.

But circumstances seem to be pushing UConn fans in a way that they aren't for these other major state universities.

Tough times.....Fans are not without acuity. They see the risk is in becoming like Indiana, their Bob Knight days now long behind them, watching conference mates excelling in your brand sport as you fade from memory.

Or, on the other hand, protecting the brand by moving to what is essentially a one sport league and becoming an athletic program more like Nova or Marquette than Kansas.

Tough times....but winning in the AAC can push those thoughts back. Football will probably not catch up with UCF...but there is absolutely no reason that basketball can't be a conference champ and a national contender,

 

[Waquoit]

The author of that article ought to check his facts. UCONN was never an "FCS contender" as he suggests. In fact, the only real foray we ever made into the playoffs was in Skip Holtz's last season, when we squeaked by Hampton 42-34 only to get clobbered in the next round by Georgia Southern.

We beat that season's national champions twice that year. That counts as being a contender.

 

[J187Money]

https://accountingoffice.uconn.edu/...tes/143/2017/12/2017-Financial-Statements.pdf

Link above to the 2017 financials. On an operating basis - the school loses $497M before state support / etc. Why this has devolved into a "let's kill XC as a way to save the university" conversation is beyond me.

The general state appropriation is $374M, and the debt service commitment from the state is $65M - so a total of $439M comes from the state each year. Of the $40M the athletic department loses, $9M comes from the students, so we are talking about $31M of the $439M coming from the state is devoted to supporting the athletic department.

Yes, the athletic department loses money. So does most of the rest of the school. I know this is a sports board, and I'm not suggesting that the AD shouldn't do whatever they can to close the gap. But to focus solely on sports is the wrong answer. You could kill the entire AD and it wouldn't solve the structural problem in a state that has an upside down budget. And at some point you take away enough money losing programs and it has a negative impact on the bottom line, as giving/applications/etc - decline...

 

[Zissou]

Nova followed up their top 10 class this year with the #2 class next year. We currently have the #17th class, we had a nothing class this year (117th in the country) and 84th the year before. Our one major class was the Gilbert, Durham, Jackson, Diarra, Vital class of which three of the players were injured and two transferred.

Also, Nova classes in that period did not have one-and-dones, and they did have guys like Ryan Arch and Josh Hart that played 4 years before graduating to the NBA. Recruiting class rankings value volume. Nova brought in fewer players in that period as their players stayed longer than typical for top programs.

It's also true that Jay has been successful in coaching up 3 and 4 stars to beat other program's 5 stars.

 

[mussels]

Slogged through 13 pages of this thing and pretty much every angle has been thoroughly beaten to death, with one possible exception - Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.

Programs are being dropped at the lower levels due to increasing insurance premiums and the effect is sure to ripple upward…. For the NFL and all of football, a new threat: an evaporating insurance market

I say we get out ahead of this and become the first major division-one school to drop football; not because we stink, and can’t afford it, and it will never deliver us to a P5, but because of “our recognition of the increasingly indisputable evidence that the young men playing this game are being subjected to an unacceptable level of risk. The University of Connecticut simply cannot, in good conscience, continue to support this endeavor”

We come across as high-minded and principled, rather than incompetent, get national attention, and possibly end up on the right side of history.

 

[Palatine]

UConn will never be able to win in the Big East, the competition is too difficult.

 

[whaler11]

https://accountingoffice.uconn.edu/...tes/143/2017/12/2017-Financial-Statements.pdf

Link above to the 2017 financials. On an operating basis - the school loses $497M before state support / etc. Why this has devolved into a "let's kill XC as a way to save the university" conversation is beyond me.

The general state appropriation is $374M, and the debt service commitment from the state is $65M - so a total of $439M comes from the state each year. Of the $40M the athletic department loses, $9M comes from the students, so we are talking about $31M of the $439M coming from the state is devoted to supporting the athletic department.

Yes, the athletic department loses money. So does most of the rest of the school. I know this is a sports board, and I'm not suggesting that the AD shouldn't do whatever they can to close the gap. But to focus solely on sports is the wrong answer. You could kill the entire AD and it wouldn't solve the structural problem in a state that has an upside down budget. And at some point you take away enough money losing programs and it has a negative impact on the bottom line, as giving/applications/etc - decline...

I wouldn’t say the school loses money... state support is just a big piece of their revenue and budget. Which is how it’s supposed to be.

Only one number matters going forward:

Where does that 439MM go?

$339MM? $239MM?

The tough decisions are going to above and beyond the AD.

 

[billybud]

The tax law changes in 2019...no longer will some athletic donations be 80% deductible...this will impact the programs that require donations for season tickets.

New Tax Law Could Cost Top College Athletic Departments Millions

 

[superjohn]

Also, Nova classes in that period did not have one-and-dones, and they did have guys like Ryan Arch and Josh Hart that played 4 years before graduating to the NBA. Recruiting class rankings value volume. Nova brought in fewer players in that period as their players stayed longer than typical for top programs.

It's also true that Jay has been successful in coaching up 3 and 4 stars to beat other program's 5 stars.

Yes, rankings also aren't the only thing to look at. Brunson, DiVincenzo, Spellman, and Bridges are all better than any players we've brought in the last 4 or 5 years. Alterique is the only guy we've had so far who could turn out to be at any of their level.

 

[J187Money]

I wouldn’t say the school loses money... state support is just a big piece of their revenue and budget. Which is how it’s supposed to be.

Only one number matters going forward:

Where does that 439MM go?

$339MM? $239MM?

The tough decisions are going to above and beyond the AD.

That’s my point. The state supports athletics at the directional state Us. As well as the tech high schools which are run by the state. All of which lose money, if you want to characterize it that way. Intramurals lose money. Jorgensen likely loses money.

So the real question is: what is the appropriate level of state support and how best to spend the money. If you had a view into every penny the school spends you MIGHT conclude that athletics should be eliminated completely, or spared in favor of other cuts, or something in between. But none of us have that visibility. The incoming president has a lot of work to do.

 

[whaler11]

That’s my point. The state supports athletics at the directional state Us. As well as the tech high schools which are run by the state. All of which lose money, if you want to characterize it that way. Intramurals lose money. Jorgensen likely loses money.

So the real question is: what is the appropriate level of state support and how best to spend the money. If you had a view into every penny the school spends you MIGHT conclude that athletics should be eliminated completely, or spared in favor of other cuts, or something in between. But none of us have that visibility. The incoming president has a lot of work to do.

Yes the question at UConn is the balance between sports and academics.

The 40 million is only a few million more than they have been losing for ages.

The reason why it is an issue now is because a pretty solid straightforward case can be made they are losing additional money AND putting the basketball program at risk chasing a ship that sailed.

 

[J187Money]

Yes the question at UConn is the balance between sports and academics.

The 40 million is only a few million more than they have been losing for ages.

The reason why it is an issue now is because a pretty solid straightforward case can be made they are losing additional money AND putting the basketball program at risk chasing a ship that sailed.

Since we "believe" we have solved the coaching situation in the short run, and we are currently sitting on the 11th ranked class in the country, I'll reserve my judgement on whether the basketball program is actually at risk. But I get your point.

 

[pj]

The fan base is clueless. They're worried about what things will look like in 20 years and think we're just fine sitting here until the next expansion when we'll get selected for a P5. We didn't get selected for a P5 back when we were winning basketball championships and going to the Fiesta bowl. They're sure to take us now that we have the worst football team in America and our basketball team sucks.

More significant than the decline of the sports is the decline of the state of Connecticut. Generally, flagship state universities are a prize for athletic conferences, as they have loyalty far beyond their alumni and student networks. If Connecticut were growing in population and wealth, and attracting young residents, UConn would look a lot more attractive.

 

[whaler11]

Since we "believe" we have solved the coaching situation in the short run, and we are currently sitting on the 11th ranked class in the country, I'll reserve my judgement on whether the basketball program is actually at risk. But I get your point.

Maybe it’s in the PDF you posted but I’d love to see the liability they are sitting on for deferred maintenance.

That’s going to be the scandal. They propped up cashflow... I guarantee there is a maintanence bubble that is going to pop.