Is Joe Williams still suspended?

[Carl Spackler]

We are in a region far far away from the lands where judges, district attorneys, and defense lawyers are interested in the health of the local football program.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

The post above yours says that stealing $180 is the same as stealing $180k

So what is the limit on acceptable theft? $200, $500? If $184 isn't a big deal, what is your scale for a young man representing his team and an institution of higher learning? How much can you steal and still be considered trust worthy? I am curious.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

So what is the limit on acceptable theft? $200, $500? If $184 isn't a big deal, what is your scale for a young man representing his team and an institution of higher learning? How much can you steal and still be considered trust worthy? I am curious.

Do you think Osiecki should've been tossed for the Powerbar heist a few years ago?

 

[whaler11]

So what is the limit on acceptable theft? $200, $500? If $184 isn't a big deal, what is your scale for a young man representing his team and an institution of higher learning? How much can you steal and still be considered trust worthy? I am curious.

I have not said there is an acceptable limit. Can you comprehend anything?

If he's not 'trustworthy' then why suspend him - why wouldn't you kick him off the team?

Let me spell it out nice and slowly for you:

Clearly the legal system agrees that the punishment for theft varies depending on the value of the cash or goods stolen. This I imagine you understand.

I think that a full season's suspension for stealing less than $200 is way overboard. Which is what this penalty is going to end up being.

What do you think the proper penalty for stealing $200 is?

Secondly, what could possibly come from the court that would inform the decision on his athletic penalty. Even if he's 1000% guilty - is the whole season not enough? If it turns out he's innocent do they time travel to the past and reinstate him?

 

[Carl Spackler]

It's an interesting question Whaler poses moving forward.

There is no doubt in my mind, that there are football programs and state universities across the country, that would have had Joe Williams on the playing field, while we don't. The question is what the specifics of our disciplinary processes are. If the disciplinary process is such that any player that is arrested for anything, will not be reinstated until the court proceeding is over - that's what it's got to be. I don't have a problem with it actually.

But - as I said before - we are a long, long way away from the lands where the judges, prosecutors, and defending attorneys are going to be conducting business and running their court proceeding timetables, for UCONN football players with any eye on the football season.

And make no mistake, those kinds of things happen in other parts of the country.

 

[whaler11]

The problem with that policy is that you can take away a player with any false accusation.

It's the kind of thing that sounds good at face value but treats every offense the same and puts your program in the hands of every campus police officer.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The problem with that policy is that you can take away a player with any false accusation.

It's the kind of thing that sounds good at face value but treats every offense the same and puts your program in the hands of every campus police officer.

Yup - I was just talking about the Order side of the Law & Order thing- or is the Law?

Not only are we far away from the land where judges, prosecutors and defenders have an eye on the football program and season, we are VERY far away from the land where police officers care. In fact, I think a decent argument can be made that UCONN cops take pleasure in busting athletes - I am confident in saying they did when I was there.

BTW: I'm not justifying or making an argument about anything, just observations.

The conclusion is that there are different ways to go about disciplinary actions that are still ethical/moral/legal - yet don't compromise your athletic programs.

 

[BlueMAB]

Our starting RB struck a woman and missed a quarter (and that was after a previous suspension for weed). This guy stole less than $200. 4 games is more than enough. He should have been available for Michigan.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Our starting RB struck a woman and missed a quarter (and that was after a previous suspension for weed). This guy stole less than $200. 4 games is more than enough. He should have been available for Michigan.

The Rutgers game.....between the joke suspension of McCombs (who should not have boarded the bus), to P's outburst with Bennett, to his completely idiotic and inexcusable clock management at the end of the half........perfectly sums up P's tenure here.

 

[whaler11]

Our starting RB struck a woman and missed a quarter (and that was after a previous suspension for weed). This guy stole less than $200. 4 games is more than enough. He should have been available for Michigan.

We have a winner.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Do you think Osiecki should've been tossed for the Powerbar heist a few years ago?

Yes. Fights happpen, over sleeping and being late to class/practice happens. Stealing is a self-determined act. He is innocent until proven guilty, but if guilty.....Did someone make him steal? I have been hungry before, hell I did an entire month of college once with just three dollars....but stealing never crossed my mind. I wasn't homeless and I had friends. If you will rob your own community, you will rob anyone. Just my feeling. Can't go to battle with people I don't trust. And yes I played.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I have not said there is an acceptable limit. Can you comprehend anything?

If he's not 'trustworthy' then why suspend him - why wouldn't you kick him off the team?

Let me spell it out nice and slowly for you:

Clearly the legal system agrees that the punishment for theft varies depending on the value of the cash or goods stolen. This I imagine you understand.

I think that a full season's suspension for stealing less than $200 is way overboard. Which is what this penalty is going to end up being.

What do you think the proper penalty for stealing $200 is?

Secondly, what could possibly come from the court that would inform the decision on his athletic penalty. Even if he's 1000% guilty - is the whole season not enough? If it turns out he's innocent do they time travel to the past and reinstate him?

Wow, I can't comprehend. You said something to the effect of how long, it was just $184. I simply asked what an acceptable amount is. Has to be quantifiable if you are going to draw a line or match a number games to an amount.

To answer you real question, for stealing a credit card and buying goods...I would suspend him for a season and consider kicking him off the team. The legal system is not the issue. If that is the standard, no player under arrest should miss any time until convicted. Aaron Hernandez should be running routes for Tom Brady right now. He hasn't been convicted of anything (though denied bail). Joe made a choice (allegedly) that the goods he (allegedly) stole meant more to him than the opportunity he had to play. His right to choose. If I was his coach, it would be my right to suspend him.

 

[CTMike]

I tried to steal some cherries when I was a kid. Guess I wanted some cherries. I was scolded. Severely. But well stealing is stealing so I guess I'm a horrible person after all and should never be trusted. Sorry guys.

 

[whaler11]

Wow, I can't comprehend. You said something to the effect of how long, it was just $184. I simply asked what an acceptable amount is. Has to be quantifiable if you are going to draw a line or match a number games to an amount.

To answer you real question, for stealing a credit card and buying goods...I would suspend him for a season and consider kicking him off the team. The legal system is not the issue. If that is the standard, no player under arrest should miss any time until convicted. Aaron Hernandez should be running routes for Tom Brady right now. He hasn't been convicted of anything (though denied bail). Joe made a choice (allegedly) that the goods he (allegedly) stole meant more to him than the opportunity he had to play. His right to choose. If I was his coach, it would be my right to suspend him.

UConn has made the legal dispensation part of the process not me.

Hey if you think kicking someone off the team for $184 is the right call that's fine - what would have done with LM? Tied him to a rocket and launched him into space?

As for $184 - if it's your first offense I'd be fine with 2-3 games. Assuming there aren't extenuating circumstances we aren't aware of.

As for the policy - I'm not saying to play people until their case is settled. I'm saying you can't auto-suspend everyone based on charges.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Yup - I was just talking about the Order side of the Law & Order thing- or is the Law?

Not only are we far away from the land where judges, prosecutors and defenders have an eye on the football program and season, we are VERY far away from the land where police officers care. In fact, I think a decent argument can be made that UCONN cops take pleasure in busting athletes - I am confident in saying they did when I was there.

BTW: I'm not justifying or making an argument about anything, just observations.

The conclusion is that there are different ways to go about disciplinary actions that are still ethical/moral/legal - yet don't compromise your athletic programs.

Should really read the SI "five-parter" on the Oklahoma State FB Program. Had the JW thing occurred in Stillwater, one of the following would have happened.

. A lessor player would have been asked to confess.
. The injured party would have called the whole thing a "misunderstanding."
. Not one game would have been missed.

Somewhere between the above, mildly exaggerated, scenario and the one JW is experiencing there must be some acceptable middle ground.

 

[Devland]

Our starting RB struck a woman and missed a quarter (and that was after a previous suspension for weed). This guy stole less than $200. 4 games is more than enough. He should have been available for Michigan.

Even if he stole it from a teammate? My point being, we don't know all of the dynamics of this case. If it was stolen from one of my kids, I would be demanding he be kicked off the team.

 

[BlueMAB]

Even if he stole it from a teammate? My point being, we don't know all of the dynamics of this case. If it was stolen from one of my kids, I would be demanding he be kicked off the team.

That's your right. I'd be demanding the coach ignore you because that's a ridiculous punishment for a misdemeanor crime.

Apparently on this board it's worse to steal than to hit a woman. That's unbelievable.

Yes. Fights happpen

Fights don't just "happen". Someone makes the decision to throw the first punch. Not every athlete involved in a fight was simply defending themselves.





People make bad decisions all the time. It's called "petty theft" for a reason. Personally I think petty theft is less egregious than assaulting a woman.

 

[huskymedic]

Personally I think petty theft is less egregious than assaulting a woman.

No winning this argument because each person believes what they do based on their internal belief system, but just as a point of reference, LM wasn't charged w/ assault, just breach of peace.

 

[huskysupporter]

That's your right. I'd be demanding the coach ignore you because that's a ridiculous punishment for a misdemeanor crime.

Apparently on this board it's worse to steal than to hit a woman. That's unbelievable.


Fights don't just "happen". Someone makes the decision to throw the first punch. Not every athlete involved in a fight was simply defending themselves.

People make bad decisions all the time. It's called "petty theft" for a reason. Personally I think petty theft is less egregious than assaulting a woman.

I think both offenses warrant long suspensions. I think I was the only one on this board calling out the coaches for the ridiculous slap on the wrist they gave Lyle McCombs. Should have been suspended for the season.

As for Joe Williams, like another poster said, he decided that stealing a credit card (allegedly) and the possible consequences was more important that playing football for UCONN, and representing the university well. A lengthy suspension was warranted.

 

[BlueMAB]

No winning this argument because each person believes what they do based on their internal belief system, but just as a point of reference, LM wasn't charged w/ assault, just beach of peace.

Not trying to win an argument, I'm just sharing my opinion. I don't care what he was charged with, we all know that's what he did.

 

[StoweD210]

I tried to steal some cherries when I was a kid. Guess I wanted some cherries. I was scolded. Severely. But well stealing is stealing so I guess I'm a horrible person after all and should never be trusted. Sorry guys.

Cherries are delicious, so I can see your motive.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to view your posts as steps in a plan to commit more thefts. I'm turning the alarm system on as soon as I'm done with this post just to be safe.

 

[whaler11]

I think both offenses warrant long suspensions. I think I was the only one on this board calling out the coaches for the ridiculous slap on the wrist they gave Lyle McCombs. Should have been suspended for the season.

As for Joe Williams, like another poster said, he decided that stealing a credit card (allegedly) and the possible consequences was more important that playing football for UCONN, and representing the university well. A lengthy suspension was warranted.

You weren't. There were a bunch of people going berzerk including me.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Should really read the SI "five-parter" on the Oklahoma State FB Program. Had the JW thing occurred in Stillwater, one of the following would have happened.

. A lessor player would have been asked to confess.
. The injured party would have called the whole thing a "misunderstanding."
. Not one game would have been missed.

Somewhere between the above, mildly exaggerated, scenario and the one JW is experiencing there must be some acceptable middle ground.

Yeah but Oklahoma State is still in a Power 5 Conference, so maybe the lesson for UConn is . . .

 

[freescooter]

UConn has made the legal dispensation part of the process not me.

Hey if you think kicking someone off the team for $184 is the right call that's fine - what would have done with LM? Tied him to a rocket and launched him into space?

As for $184 - if it's your first offense I'd be fine with 2-3 games. Assuming there aren't extenuating circumstances we aren't aware of.

As for the policy - I'm not saying to play people until their case is settled. I'm saying you can't auto-suspend everyone based on charges.

I agree with milleniumprince on this. Look, the guy has a stolen credit card and some stolen cash apparently, too. Here's the thing about a stolen credit card. You can keep using it, at least until someone cancels it.

Part of this is the difference between the football season, which is basically 3 months long and the basketball season which is 6 months long. And part is when events occurred. If Williams had been picked up in May even with extensions and so forth, he's back by now. If the season went until February he'd probably be back for the 2nd half. That is essentially what happened with the laptop situation.

And of course the elephant in the room is the laptops. Williams was suspended for a bunch of meaningless games, but returned for the Big East. Price was "suspended" for his recuperation period, which was laughable. Olander was "suspended" for the first week of practice. We can complain about the differing standards between UConn and the SEC but their is already a difference in how these things are handled within the university itself.

the other thing that some of you are arguing for is EXACTLY what I have been arguing for for years. there ought to be a distinction between the legal system and its penalties and the athletic department and its penalties. Just because someone's case is essentially dropped, or plea bargained down to community service doesn't mean the coach shouldn't still sit him for some games. Since coaches are loathe to do that, not just UConn coaches but all coaches, sitting guys until the court action is final insures that there are some consequences to breaking the law. I've always argued that just because the court let you off the hook, doesn't mean you're off the hook.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree with milleniumprince on this. Look, the guy has a stolen credit card and some stolen cash apparently, too. Here's the thing about a stolen credit card. You can keep using it, at least until someone cancels it.

Part of this is the difference between the football season, which is basically 3 months long and the basketball season which is 6 months long. And part is when events occurred. If Williams had been picked up in May even with extensions and so forth, he's back by now. If the season went until February he'd probably be back for the 2nd half. That is essentially what happened with the laptop situation.

And of course the elephant in the room is the laptops. Williams was suspended for a bunch of meaningless games, but returned for the Big East. Price was "suspended" for his recuperation period, which was laughable. Olander was "suspended" for the first week of practice. We can complain about the differing standards between UConn and the SEC but their is already a difference in how these things are handled within the university itself.

the other thing that some of you are arguing for is EXACTLY what I have been arguing for for years. there ought to be a distinction between the legal system and its penalties and the athletic department and its penalties. Just because someone's case is essentially dropped, or plea bargained down to community service doesn't mean the coach shouldn't still sit him for some games. Since coaches are loathe to do that, not just UConn coaches but all coaches, sitting guys until the court action is final insures that there are some consequences to breaking the law. I've always argued that just because the court let you off the hook, doesn't mean you're off the hook.

I've been waiting for someone to write something like this!!

Who thinks that the kind of thing that was written about the OSU football program (exagerratted) doesn't apply to our own 3 time national championship basketball program??????

It's all a matter of perspective.