Incoming...

[UConnJim]

The biggest fallacy is that Edsall had a roster full of kids with no other FBS offers. People who bring up Lutrus and Beatty type of recruits selectively forget A) most of the roster had FBS offers and B) the kids who didn’t have any other offers more times than not didn’t contribute much (if anything) at all.

We are taking way more of these kids now than we did in Edsall’s first stint. It’s concerning.

I don't think you are right. I went back and looked at the 2003 to 2007 recruiting classes, 5 classes in all and looked at their listed offers from Rivals. Some kids were listed in 2 classes, so I only included them in the first class listed. And, many of the kids we were getting with P5 offers either didn't make it UConn (Anoai, Nixon, McClellan, Tinney, Pommels, Hicks), or were non-factors or left the team early (Fogarty, Teague, Dorcelus, Jeffrey, Miller, Apostolakos).

Here are the numbers for those classes (Note: from 2003 to 2007, I don't think FCS offers were listed that frequently, so many of the kids with no offers probably had FCS offers):

2003: 5 P5, 2 G5, 13 no offers
2004: 5 P5, 2 G5, 1 FCS, 19 no offers
2005: 10 P5, 3 G5, 2 FCS, 9 no offers
2006: 8 P5, 0 G5, 14 no offers
2007: 5 P5, 7 G5, 16 no offers

Total: 33 P5 offers, 14 G5 offers, 3 FCS offers, 71 no offers.

2017: 6 P5, 11 G5, 4 FCS, 2 no offers
2018: 5 P5, 7 G5, 5 FCS, 2 no offers

Total: 11 P5 offers, 18 G5 offers, 9 FCS offers, 4 no offers.

By %:

2003 to 2007: 27.3% P5 offers, 11.6% G5 offers, 2.5% FCS offers, 58.7% no offers.
2017 to 2018: 26.2% P5 offers, 42.8% G5 offers, 21.4% FCS offers, 9.5% no offers.

To my eyes, the recruits offers look very similar and, it is pretty clear, that Edsall 1.0 rosters were not loaded with players with FBS rosters.

One last point. Since 2007, UConn has had 24 players drafted. Of the 24:

6 had P5 offers (and a total of 9 offers) and 18 had no P5 offers.

UConn is a developmental football program and we need to recruit kids that we can project to be very good football players. Edsall had success doing this and it seems like Diaco totally failed at this.

 

[Hornet22]

But they are watching highlights to decide if entire game tapes are worth their time. It starts with highlights.

And the point remains, tapes are readily available now in all regions unlike 10 years ago.

Coaches buy the subscription from HUDL to get access to any game they want. I think they pay something like 20k.

 

[Hornet22]

I don't think you are right. I went back and looked at the 2003 to 2007 recruiting classes, 5 classes in all and looked at their listed offers from Rivals. Some kids were listed in 2 classes, so I only included them in the first class listed. And, many of the kids we were getting with P5 offers either didn't make it UConn (Anoai, Nixon, McClellan, Tinney, Pommels, Hicks), or were non-factors or left the team early (Fogarty, Teague, Dorcelus, Jeffrey, Miller, Apostolakos).

Here are the numbers for those classes (Note: from 2003 to 2007, I don't think FCS offers were listed that frequently, so many of the kids with no offers probably had FCS offers):

2003: 5 P5, 2 G5, 13 no offers
2004: 5 P5, 2 G5, 1 FCS, 19 no offers
2005: 10 P5, 3 G5, 2 FCS, 9 no offers
2006: 8 P5, 0 G5, 14 no offers
2007: 5 P5, 7 G5, 16 no offers

Total: 33 P5 offers, 14 G5 offers, 3 FCS offers, 71 no offers.

2017: 6 P5, 11 G5, 4 FCS, 2 no offers
2018: 5 P5, 7 G5, 5 FCS, 2 no offers

Total: 11 P5 offers, 18 G5 offers, 9 FCS offers, 4 no offers.

By %:

2003 to 2007: 27.3% P5 offers, 11.6% G5 offers, 2.5% FCS offers, 58.7% no offers.
2017 to 2018: 26.2% P5 offers, 42.8% G5 offers, 21.4% FCS offers, 9.5% no offers.

To my eyes, the recruits offers look very similar and, it is pretty clear, that Edsall 1.0 rosters were not loaded with players with FBS rosters.

One last point. Since 2007, UConn has had 24 players drafted. Of the 24:

6 had P5 offers (and a total of 9 offers) and 18 had no P5 offers.

UConn is a developmental football program and we need to recruit kids that we can project to be very good football players. Edsall had success doing this and it seems like Diaco totally failed at this.

Solid post.
Exactly. Sell UConn. If you come here you have a chance to grow academically and athletically. Edsall targets the kids who have upside. There is nothing wrong with that strategy.
There are so many players out there folks. I believe our program actually puts in work and evaluates talent.
I’m sure there are lots of players RE evaluates and doesn’t offer because he doesn’t think they have upside. It’s almost like some people feel he’s offering guys with no purpose.
You know how easy it is for Rutgers to offer a kid that BC just offered? It’s the lazy form of recruiting. “Well, BC or Pitt just offered so he must be good.” Not realizing that Pitt offered because someone else did.
Smh. All of these guys look at the same small pool of Rivals/Under Armor Camp kids.

 

[Guru13]

But they are watching highlights to decide if entire game tapes are worth their time. It starts with highlights.

And the point remains, tapes are readily available now in all regions unlike 10 years ago.

I remember when my brother Noel was being recruited by Uconn, they asked for more of his game film even though they saw his Highlight film. Usually to get full game access, the highschool coaches have to provide them to the recruiters.

 

[Hornet22]

Does anyone believe all of our incoming players were evaluated by all of these other schools that we wish offered them and were passed up?
Did Syracuse, BC, etc watch our guys game film and decide they weren’t good enough? Or did they watch our guys highlight tape and decide they weren’t good?
Or was it simply we won’t offer a kid unless others have kinda deal? And by the time they got the one from UConn there was already a bunch of other guys on the board ahead of them which meant an offer wasn’t worth it? Perhaps that’s why RE welcomed the early signing period so he can lock all of these guys in before his validation offer took effect and poachers would come looking? I believe a good portion of our skill guys would have gotten some offers after the early signing period as recruiting boards shifted and teams didn’t get their plan A.
The offer business is far more wharped than you think.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I don't think you are right. I went back and looked at the 2003 to 2007 recruiting classes, 5 classes in all and looked at their listed offers from Rivals. Some kids were listed in 2 classes, so I only included them in the first class listed. And, many of the kids we were getting with P5 offers either didn't make it UConn (Anoai, Nixon, McClellan, Tinney, Pommels, Hicks), or were non-factors or left the team early (Fogarty, Teague, Dorcelus, Jeffrey, Miller, Apostolakos).

Here are the numbers for those classes (Note: from 2003 to 2007, I don't think FCS offers were listed that frequently, so many of the kids with no offers probably had FCS offers):

2003: 5 P5, 2 G5, 13 no offers
2004: 5 P5, 2 G5, 1 FCS, 19 no offers
2005: 10 P5, 3 G5, 2 FCS, 9 no offers
2006: 8 P5, 0 G5, 14 no offers
2007: 5 P5, 7 G5, 16 no offers

Total: 33 P5 offers, 14 G5 offers, 3 FCS offers, 71 no offers.

2017: 6 P5, 11 G5, 4 FCS, 2 no offers
2018: 5 P5, 7 G5, 5 FCS, 2 no offers

Total: 11 P5 offers, 18 G5 offers, 9 FCS offers, 4 no offers.

By %:

2003 to 2007: 27.3% P5 offers, 11.6% G5 offers, 2.5% FCS offers, 58.7% no offers.
2017 to 2018: 26.2% P5 offers, 42.8% G5 offers, 21.4% FCS offers, 9.5% no offers.

To my eyes, the recruits offers look very similar and, it is pretty clear, that Edsall 1.0 rosters were not loaded with players with FBS rosters.

One last point. Since 2007, UConn has had 24 players drafted. Of the 24:

6 had P5 offers (and a total of 9 offers) and 18 had no P5 offers.

UConn is a developmental football program and we need to recruit kids that we can project to be very good football players. Edsall had success doing this and it seems like Diaco totally failed at this.

I know with 100% certainty that a lot of kids from the classes of 2006/2007 who are listed as having no offers held multiple offers from FBS programs.

People want to use recruiting info (offer lists) from over 10 years ago to prove a point while also talking about the advances in recruiting in today’s world. People who follow this recruiting nonsense don’t have the first idea how it works. They’ve turned it into their own little cottage industry. I know from first hand info that Isaiah Moore held multiple offers. Where does he fall in this list?

 

[Exit 4]

Does anyone believe all of our incoming players were evaluated by all of these other schools that we wish offered them and were passed up?
Did Syracuse, BC, etc watch our guys game film and decide they weren’t good enough? Or did they watch our guys highlight tape and decide they weren’t good?
Or was it simply we won’t offer a kid unless others have kinda deal? And by the time they got the one from UConn there was already a bunch of other guys on the board ahead of them which meant an offer wasn’t worth it? Perhaps that’s why RE welcomed the early signing period so he can lock all of these guys in before his validation offer took effect and poachers would come looking? I believe a good portion of our skill guys would have gotten some offers after the early signing period as recruiting boards shifted and teams didn’t get their plan A.
The offer business is far more wharped than you think.

Hey man, some of the dudes commenting have been watching this program closely for 20 years - so its not like this discussion is all new to them.

 

[UConnJim]

If Lutrus was playing today he'd be a 3* recruit and have all sorts of P5 offers. This state barely got recruited 10-15 years ago

I totally disagree. The best players in Connecticut have been recruited, it's just that the number of highly developed kids coming out of Connecticut is limited, so you don't get a lot of eyes looking at the players. Going back before the recruiting services, Connecticut kids were recruited. It seemed most went to either Syracuse (like Dwight Freeney) or BC (like Bill Romanowski), but others were going all over the country. Think about guys like Doug Dubose (Nebraska), Tony Ortiz (Nebraska), Jermelle Lewis (Iowa), Steve Young (BYU), Sandy Osiecki (Arizona St.), Andrew Pinnock (South Carolina), Edwin Esson (Missouri), Tony Elliot (Wisconsin), Pete Demerle (Notre Dame),...

Scott Lutrus was a great football player for UConn, but he was listed at 6'1" and 196 pounds as a recruit. That is pretty small for a linebacker and he needed to be developed which is why he was a 2* recruit with only a UConn offer.

 

[Hornet22]

Hey man, some of the dudes commenting have been watching this program closely for 20 years - so its not like this discussion is all new to them.

Got it.
But it just seems like the entire offer game gets lost on some people.
So many offers go out before a true evaluation is even done. And so many offers go out that later become non committable because an evaluation was done and it was determined that the player wasn’t good enough. But the offer still gets reported.
Whether someone offers you or not it all comes down to a coach actually watching your games. And I believe RE is offering guys he believes can be developed.
There’s a market for that.
You just have to have the pieces in place to develop the talent. That’s the true challenge.

 

[freescooter]

Edsall has always gone his own way with recruiting. Even recruiting “guru” Farrell mentioned that it is really hard to evaluate Edsall classes for that reason but he makes it work. Would I like 25 5* guys? Sure but I have some confidence that Edsall knows what he is doing. The list of guys is too long.

 

[UConnJim]

I know with 100% certainty that a lot of kids from the classes of 2006/2007 who are listed as having no offers held multiple offers from FBS programs.

People want to use recruiting info (offer lists) from over 10 years ago to prove a point while also talking about the advances in recruiting in today’s world. People who follow this recruiting nonsense don’t have the first idea how it works. They’ve turned it into their own little cottage industry. I know from first hand info that Isaiah Moore held multiple offers. Where does he fall in this list?

Maybe Moore did. But, he was listed as a 2* rated 5.0 on Rivals and 2* 0.7222 on 24/7. That is about as low as a high school recruit can be rated, so he was not a highly rated recruit. As we all know, the recruiting services can be wrong.

 

[freescooter]

The other thing about Edsall is that he isn’t recruiting for guys who will play in 2018 or 2019. If necessary he will use them like he did this year but he is looking for guys who will be ready as redshirt sophomores or even juniors. I’m sure it killed him to use a 265 pound freshman at tackle this year but it had to be done. In the future those kids will be 290-300 redshirt Frosh before they play.

 

[Hornet22]

I know with 100% certainty that a lot of kids from the classes of 2006/2007 who are listed as having no offers held multiple offers from FBS programs.

People want to use recruiting info (offer lists) from over 10 years ago to prove a point while also talking about the advances in recruiting in today’s world. People who follow this recruiting nonsense don’t have the first idea how it works. They’ve turned it into their own little cottage industry. I know from first hand info that Isaiah Moore held multiple offers. Where does he fall in this list?

Edsall has always gone his own way with recruiting. Even recruiting “guru” Farrell mentioned that it is really hard to evaluate Edsall classes for that reason but he makes it work. Would I like 25 5* guys? Sure but I have some confidence that Edsall knows what he is doing. The list of guys is too long.

So do I
Like I said in an earlier post. Seems like some posters feel Edsall is blindfolding himself and offering a kid. He’s evaluating just like you think other schools are doing and based on what HE wants he’s offering. If you trust RE then you believe in who he brings in. If you don’t trust his pedigree then you’re SOL and will be frustrated for years.

 

[Excalibur]

I know with 100% certainty that a lot of kids from the classes of 2006/2007 who are listed as having no offers held multiple offers from FBS programs.

People want to use recruiting info (offer lists) from over 10 years ago to prove a point while also talking about the advances in recruiting in today’s world. People who follow this recruiting nonsense don’t have the first idea how it works. They’ve turned it into their own little cottage industry. I know from first hand info that Isaiah Moore held multiple offers. Where does he fall in this list?

Rivals didn't have much competition back then, and the services weren't nearly as efficient at tracking offers then as they are now.

 

[Nextmanup]

The other thing about Edsall is that he isn’t recruiting for guys who will play in 2018 or 2019. If necessary he will use them like he did this year but he is looking for guys who will be ready as redshirt sophomores or even juniors. I’m sure it killed him to use a 265 pound freshman at tackle this year but it had to be done. In the future those kids will be 290-300 redshirt Frosh before they play.

Already some of those kids who were undersized have gained at least 10 pounds over the last 4 months....now that games are over and they are in the weight room I'm sure by spring they will be up another 10 if not more by the summer! All those will be ready to go plus what we have.. I think we are looking pretty good this year.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Rivals didn't have much competition back then, and the services weren't nearly as efficient at tracking offers then as they are now.

Not to mention the explosion of social media. Twitter was only created in 2006. The whole recruiting cottage industry is built on hoodwinking people who pay subscription rates. UConn never had a high subscription rate on Rivals (because most of us are smart) and because of this, Farrell didn’t put a whole lot of effort into evaluating these kids or putting together accurate offer lists.

Baffling why people follow this stuff as close as they do.

 

[Nextmanup]

Yes they are. But the highlights draw them to the games.
If you haven’t gone to any of the invited Rivals camps then you don’t have a chance to get stars. No stars means no major programs are sniffing around you.
Doesn’t mean the guy can’t play.
Most of it starts with the rivals camps.

Agree 100%.Hornet. all those stars are from Rivals and other camps.. if you don't attend a bunch of those camps your not highly recruited as far as getting stars.
RE knows that.. I know he could care less about the stars and how many each kid accumulates..He goes on meeting the kid, getting that gut feeling,looking at potential and basic fundamentals on the kid and if he can work with what he has to develop and watching the kids tape..That's how he picks his recruits..

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Maybe Moore did. But, he was listed as a 2* rated 5.0 on Rivals and 2* 0.7222 on 24/7. That is about as low as a high school recruit can be rated, so he was not a highly rated recruit. As we all know, the recruiting services can be wrong.

Yeah, someone mentioned it earlier. Us “offer list” guys put a lot more faith in coaches who make 6 or 7 figure salaries than we do some fat slob sitting behind a laptop watching hudl tape.

 

[Hornet22]

Agree 100%.Hornet. all those stars are from Rivals and other camps.. if you don't attend a bunch of those camps your not highly recruited as far as getting stars.
RE knows that.. I know he could care less about the stars and how many each kid accumulates..He goes on meeting the kid, getting that gut feeling,looking at potential and basic fundamentals on the kid and if he can work with what he has to develop and watching the kids tape..That's how he picks his recruits..

Agreed. So in essence all RE does is what the Rivals Camp directors do. They evaluate talent.
The Rivals guys are usually good at evaluating. That’s never in question. Sure they may miss on a few that they’ve seen or over hyped someone as well.
The same goes for RE. He evaluates and goes with his experience. He may miss on a few or bring in someone that may not pan out. But that’s normal.
Gotta trust the process.

 

[Hornet22]

Yeah, someone mentioned it earlier. Us “offer list” guys put a lot more faith in coaches who make 6 or 7 figure salaries than we do some fat slob sitting behind a laptop watching hudl tape.

And RE is a 7 figure guy who has tons of experience at this level and on Sundays.
I trust that. Seems like you don’t

 

[Exit 4]

So the recruiting agencies have bias - that's old news - but is it a coincidence that we have been finishing in the bottom 3 of the AAC recruiting wise every year thus far which matches our on field performance? No. The services on average have some validity.

Where the recruiting services tend to make the most egregious mistakes i) is overrating kids based on their junior year and failing to drop the kid down based on their senior year (they never drop a kids rating even when its pretty clear they over shot the first time (Bemiy) or ii) when they elevate a kid for the subscriber base (Rigiani) after ignoring the kid prior to said offer. Both of those tend to happen on the fringe, leaving the big picture somewhat accurate.

So will RE 2.0 blow up the star system by elevating us to a 7 or 8 win team while continuing to score at the bottom of the league by the recruiting services? Well- we are poised to find out between now and 2021.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

And RE is a 7 figure guy who has tons of experience at this level and on Sundays.
I trust that. Seems like you don’t

Ok.

 

[Pudge]

This is pretty simple. If they don’t start beating other legitimate programs for players 3-9 is going to be a permanent condition.

If you think you are going to put together some ragtag group of underdogs and win 7-8 games a year in this league it’s time to pull your head out of the sand.

What if I told you ... that HCRE staff is near the best formed for his targeted recruited. With some success, he will recruit better ... but only marginally on the Offer/Star qualification scales. We can get from 3-9 .... to 8-4 and maybe a few 9-3 years in this conference. WHEN we were moving and shaking in 2006-2010, we never got the Offers/Stars that Pitt got ... nor Rutgers or USF; but, we were more than competitive. And I think we are getting a far better quality QB these days.

Sunk? Or can we rebuild the Fanbase. Because, my simple calculation is that goes parallel to improving the recruiting to a better than 8th place in this conference per Offers/Stars.

 

[Hornet22]

So the recruiting agencies have bias - that's old news - but is it a coincidence that we have been finishing in the bottom 3 of the AAC recruiting wise every year thus far which matches our on field performance? No. The services on average have some validity.

Where the recruiting services tend to make the most egregious mistakes i) is overrating kids based on their junior year and failing to drop the kid down based on their senior year (they never drop a kids rating even when its pretty clear they over shot the first time (Bemiy) or ii) when they elevate a kid for the subscriber base (Riagini) after ignoring the kid prior to said offer. Both of those tend to happen on the fringe, leaving the big picture somewhat accurate.

So will RE 2.0 blow up the star system by elevating us to a 7 or 8 win team while continuing to score at the bottom of the league by the recruiting services? Well- we are poised to find out between now and 2021.

Agreed Exit. Valid points. But remember you’re attaching our rankings with how we finished in the AAC minus one factor. RE didn’t bring in these guys. Clearly Diaco was in the same boat as he was forced to search outside the box in order to fill a class. But I reckon to think he wasn’t as good as evaluating/developing talent.
Just look at the strength and agility metrics of the past couple years. And that hasn’t nothing to do with stars or talent. Freakin get in the weight room and lift. Eat more.
What were the coaches doing and how were they holding players accountable?

 

[Pudge]

Most of us concentrating on offers don't care much about stars and rankings.

You can talk about Edsall's first stint all you want, but many if not most of our best players had other offers, even if they weren't ranked by the recruiting services, and the availability of film to evaluate has only increased since then. It's pretty simple -- if multiple coaching staffs think a kid can play, it's more likely that the kid can actually play.

Today ... we are discovering on some Florida kids that they have far more Offers than the services reported. Then ... on Northeast kids who don't go to the combine and are not even called by the service's evaluators nor are their coaches in that network, how do you know who is talking to them. It is a inefficient market with modest public information. Can we know more because of Twitter and Film than 2004-2009? 100%. But, it is what it is. We are speculating. I wonder what we'd find in a 20 minute conversation with Aaron Smith or Jon Wholley; and YES, I find this stuff fascinating in spite of the mystery.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Agreed Exit. Valid points. But remember you’re attaching our rankings with how we finished in the AAC minus one factor. RE didn’t bring in these guys. Clearly Diaco was in the same boat as he was forced to search outside the box in order to fill a class. But I reckon to think he wasn’t as good as evaluating/developing talent.
Just look at the strength and agility metrics of the past couple years. And that hasn’t nothing to do with stars or talent. Freakin get in the weight room and lift. Eat more.
What were the coaches doing and how were they holding players accountable?

When you walked on the hoops team at CCSU did the recruiting guru’s snub of you fuel your fire to win CPOY?

 

[Hornet22]

When you walked on the hoops team at CCSU did the recruiting guru’s snub of you fuel your fire to win CPOY?

Yo I just ate a blueberry muffin that was off the chain!!!!
Wasn’t too sweet. Best ever.

 

[uconnphil2016]

Edsall is in a near impossible situation in that he's pitching a school who hasn't been competitive for nearly a decade and isn't in fertile recruiting ground like UCF, USF, SMU, and Houston. If he can be a good enough evaluator to make this group into a 7 win bunch, then we can build on it and get better recruits in the future.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

Just like his first stint? Seems to me that’s what RE did the first time.

So in other words what you’re saying is he’s not a good judge of talent? That’s what this all boils down to. It doesn’t matter who else offers a kid. There are lots of kids who have multiple offers that don’t pan out either. The NFL is full of guys that got drafted in the way late rounds that turned out ok.
This whole offer crap is annoying. I get it. Four and Five Star guys are shiny and nice. But those aren’t the only good players out there. Period.
Most coaches aren’t blue collar enough to trust their eye and bring in a kid and develop them.
Most programs don’t even allow the signing of a no star kid because they are driven by their 247 and ESPN recruiting rankings and that type of kid will lower that number. Boosters don’t wanna hear that.

So true about NFL players drafted in the late round... Does Tom Brady ring a bell? 6th round...

 

[whaler11]

The allocation of talent isn’t perfect therefore there is no difference in anyone’s class.

Plus Tom Brady got picked in the 6th round.

Sounds like it’s going to work.