In WTIC's "Dailey Recap" CD Expresses Disappointment...

[Alydar]

While the O takedown of KML was visually rough it was a spontanious action that was made to look worse because KML got caught of balance. I thought O made a clean rebound. The CD comment IMO was all about the closelining of the UConn high posts when they tried to release to the low post. Several of the Stanford players used extended arms in the head and neck area of the UConn players who were without the ball. Those plays, since they occurred multiple times (most notably by O against Stewart just before Geno got T'd up) and were done by several tree players, had to have been coached, putting the label of liar and hypocrit to Tara's assertion that the Trees don't play like that. Cheap head and neck shots to players without the ball is the type of physical play the game can do without.

 

[choochoo]

I noticed it most when CO was defending Stewie. It was blatant and intentional!

 

[DobbsRover2]

From viewing the video, I agree with OneTrick and don't think the "take down" was the dirty play it appears to be. Both players went up for the rebound with CO in a better (more balanced) position to get the ball, KML only option was to jump to the side causing her to be easily be pulled down (leverage) as CO tried to get both hands on the ball to take the shot. The ball was in CO's left hand trapped against her hip. Unfortunately, KML's head was in a direct line between CO's right hand and the ball. So when she moved her hand down, KML's head was in the path and she pushed it out of the way. I see no malice in the move. The ref could have seen KML jump in front of and into CO and thought that was also a foul. In any case, there are differences in how we interpret the same event with multiple views in slo-mo at our leisure. I say, give the refs a break on this one.

Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.

Kaleena had an arm on the ball and was pulling it down with her weight...Chiney had to pull the ball toward her body to rebound it...there was no way to go up as you suggest without just ceding the rebound...hardly something you can expect an AA to do in that situation...

Chiney got handled beautifully in this game, there's no need to make this more than it was...

 

[Brad Palmer]

In regards to CD's comment, as Louie Carnesecca once famously told Jim Calhoun: "You can only coach one team at a time." Not to stir up the pot, but should CD be making a comment like that in a game where Geno yelled at a fan to "shut the duck* up"?

Great game by UConn, most likely frustration on the part of Stanford players. Let's not make it out to be more than that.

 

[cardfan]

Well stills don't always tell the story so here are the two video views from ESPNU of the rebound sequence.

One thing I have concluded, there was no foul committed by Breanna on Ogwumike's shot after the rebound.

This still is pretty good. Dolson has Chiney's jersey while KML's hand is on her.

http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/BNeNcDqA/1/5894000#imageID=176669833

 

[cardfan]

Kaleena had an arm on the ball and was pulling it down with her weight...Chiney had to pull the ball toward her body to rebound it...there was no way to go up as you suggest without just ceding the rebound...hardly something you can expect an AA to do in that situation...

Chiney got handled beautifully in this game, there's no need to make this more than it was...

It's funny the difference between the game at Maples in 2010 and 2012. Each year, one team kept the opposing number one scorer in check. In 2010, Stanford thought they played Maya well, yet UConn thought Stanford was too physical, to this year UConn thought they handled Chiney beautifully and we Stanford fans think calls were missed, a few on Dolson in particular. Just an observation, nothing more.

 

[cardfan]

Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.

I never said anything of the kind. My point was the game was physical, although tame by many other games I've seen, but BOTH teams participated in the style. I didn't see any angels flying around Maples.

 

[cardfan]

To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?

exactly. I can't believe all the fuss over this play when players just got tangled up going for the ball.

 

[cardfan]

We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.

again, I agree.

 

[Icebear]

exactly. I can't believe all the fuss over this play when players just got tangled up going for the ball.

It is because several times Chiney threw players down to the floor. Not once, not twice. It is a pattern of how it was done.

 

[cardfan]

It is because several times Chiney threw players down to the floor. Not once, not twice. It is a pattern of how it was done.

Oh please. A pattern of Chiney throwing people to the floor....? How can Dolson dominate Chiney AND Chiney throw people to the floor, several times no less? Makes no sense.

 

[Icebear]

She does it quite easily by hooking arms on players and then swinging them. She did it to Dolson and KML in addition to the other takedown of KML.

 

[OneTrickPony]

It's funny the difference between the game at Maples in 2010 and 2012. Each year, one team kept the opposing number one scorer in check. In 2010, Stanford thought they played Maya well, yet UConn thought Stanford was too physical, to this year UConn thought they handled Chiney beautifully and we Stanford fans think calls were missed, a few on Dolson in particular. Just an observation, nothing more.

I appreciate the symmetry...

I've mentioned that I thought Chiney was allowed to be way too physical with Maya in the 2010 game...although I admit to some bias with regard to Ms. Maya whom I've followed since high school here in Atlanta. It was very gratifying to see the referees let Stef play this year the way they let Chiney play then.

That said cardfan, I have no illusions about Chiney's physical style of play...she uses her hands and arms and takes everything the referees allow. The reason people get concerned about a play like the one where Kaleena went down is that they don't want to see someone hurt. In a pickup game in the gym if a male player did that, he'd be laid out on the very next play. Icebear, being the gentleman he is, settles for a little chiding which I think should be allowed, don't you...?

 

[doggydaddy]

This still is pretty good. Dolson has Chiney's jersey while KML's hand is on her.

http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/BNeNcDqA/1/5894000#imageID=176669833

If they called these off the ball fouls, everyone would foul out.

 

[Bestiarius]

Chiney even has her jersey trained to hold! http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/BNeNcDqA/1/5894000#imageID=176669833

 

[phil sampieri]

I've pretty much had it with O'Brien and Burke. They have become un-listenable.

With all due respect, we don't have Megan or Picozzi to rag on who I thought were not bad to a very astute Doris Burke and very good O'Brien and critics come out. C'mon man

 

[OneTrickPony]

This photo appears to be a still of the rebound where Chiney and Kaleena collided...provides a good perspective...

http://www.stanfordphoto.com/viewphoto.php?albumId=214610&imageId=6484862

 

[semper]

The body language of the crowd is something else....

 

[cardfan]

I appreciate the symmetry...

I've mentioned that I thought Chiney was allowed to be way too physical with Maya in the 2010 game...although I admit to some bias with regard to Ms. Maya whom I've followed since high school here in Atlanta. It was very gratifying to see the referees let Stef play this year the way they let Chiney play then.

That said cardfan, I have no illusions about Chiney's physical style of play...she uses her hands and arms and takes everything the referees allow. The reason people get concerned about a play like the one where Kaleena went down is that they don't want to see someone hurt. In a pickup game in the gym if a male player did that, he'd be laid out on the very next play. Icebear, being the gentleman he is, settles for a little chiding which I think should be allowed, don't you...?

Exactly. I have no illusions about Chiney's play, nor Dolson's. I get the concern, I don't like over physical either. I've seen a lot of physical play over the years, including a take down of Susan King at OU, resulting her tearing her ACL.

 

[cardfan]

The body language of the crowd is something else....

It was. You should have seen me. But no one booed the team, booing was at the refs.

 

[cardfan]

If they called these off the ball fouls, everyone would foul out.

grabbing shirts okay then?

 

[UConnFan23]

Just scanned this entire thread. Interesting how the viewpoints and emotion play out with the benefit of multiple replays, viewing angles, and interpretations, especially compared to what the refs, coaches, and fans see/interpret over the real-time fraction of a second with whatever angle and potentially screened views they have during the game. I'm inclined to file this game away in the following way:

• Players, coaches, and refs, like all humans, not perfect or 100% in control of every movement and reaction
• Home court advantage is called that for a reason
• The game plans were what they were, but I didn't see anything that compelled me to think any individual or play fit the "dirty" criteria
• UConn took the #1 team to the woodshed to a historic extent on their home court. We UConn fans get the glory and incredible satisfaction, the Cardinal get to pick up some ugly looking pieces.... bring on the rest of the schedule (TIME TO MOVE ON, IT'S ALL GOOD FOR US )

 

[doggydaddy]

grabbing shirts okay then?

Happens all the time.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Kaleena had an arm on the ball and was pulling it down with her weight...Chiney had to pull the ball toward her body to rebound it...there was no way to go up as you suggest without just ceding the rebound...hardly something you can expect an AA to do in that situation...

Chiney got handled beautifully in this game, there's no need to make this more than it was...

Wow, you do have an interesting way of looking at photos. As can be seen in that first photo in the thread, CO drove her arms through KML's arms to get control of the ball completely away from KML, and yet you say that somehow KML was pulling down on that ball with her weight? Check that photo again and tell how many ounces KML had "pulling it down,"as you say.

And CO just had to either go "ceding the rebound" or "pull the ball toward her body" to control it? That is so out of an early Alicia Silverstone movie as to be hard to fathom. As if CO was at risk of losing the ball with KML driven toward her backside and all CO had to do was let the ball come down on her left side away from KML.

Look those of use who have played some BB know that there are many ways to control a rebound once you get your fingers on it, and the best way is to sweep it away from another contending player. Or if you have the chance and you have an opposing player extended, you can hook them and then drive your arms and body into them, maybe to send a message or because you know you can get away with it. This is done a lot but it risks losing the rebound because the ball is down low where it is sometimes grabbed away.

And as to CardFan, you did throw up a complaining picture of a UConn player touching a Stanford player and calling it a hold. Perhaps I'm just assuming that you think a touch on a Stanford player is not all right then? Why show the pic then? But OTP is right that there is no reason to make more of all this than there was (whatever that is) -- it's just something to remember for future games.