In WTIC's "Dailey Recap" CD Expresses Disappointment...

[pap49cba]

Check out Geno in the background... he immediately starts chirping at the ref on that side.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Well stills don't always tell the story so here are the two video views from ESPNU of the rebound sequence.

One thing I have concluded, there was no foul committed by Breanna on Ogwumike's shot after the rebound.

I agree with you, Biff...Stewart clearly avoids fouling Chiney on the play...an almost impossible bit of body control!

On the rebound between Kaleena and Chiney, Kaleena jumps to her right to get the rebound and she and Chiney meet at the apex of the jump. My take is that Chiney controlled the ball and Kaleena fell because Chiney was over her center of gravity with the ball and Kaleena was at an angle that made her unstable. I wouldn't call that a purposeful take down, just a hard play where the off-balance player couldn't stay vertical.

The lean Kaleena used is the same lean she employed on the shot she took where she went down and sustained her concussion in the paint. I commented on it in one of the threads. Our players...especially Breanna and Kaleena, have to be schooled on maintaining their center of balance within their feet...most especially in the lane were a fall can be much worse if it results in a collision with a large moving player.

An exemplar of perfect balance is Kelly...she routinely absorbs contact from much larger players but can maintain her feet because of her compact body position...

 

[CCinCT]

How does CO not get called for a foul?? Even more amazing she ends up getting "and 1" . One of worst calls I eve saw. Thanks for posting.

Right up there with June Corteau's call on the Taurasi block -

The ESPN shills (Burke and O'Brien) showed the replay several times, never mentioning the takedown of KML, just sucking up to Tara and Chiney. They did make a point earlier of emphasizing the non-call on Stef, "How is that not a foul !" "That was a foul !!!" "Wasn't that a foul, Rebecca ? "

Pretty soon we're going to find out it's another down year in WCBB.

 

[semper]

THAT is ridiculous...man, she threw her to the ground... and Stewie was clean...

 

[DobbsRover2]

Playing in, and around, the post is not, and in the long glorious history of basketball, has ever been for the faint of heart. It is more like a demolition derby and it matters not who is playing and at what level the game is being played. It seems to me that many fainthearted people are posting in this thread. Meanwhile I will try to decide which nostril of my nose I will attempt to breathe through tonight after many breaks and look down at my feet through a slight permanent closure of my right eye to a funny looking misshape of my right ankle. Probably the frequent KO's made me become a bear. As the great Bill Russell once said that basketball was, indeed, a contact sport; Football is a collision sport.

Considering the past history of these two teams, it li fairly likely that they could meet up again in April, so coaches are always looking to the future and trying to do a little bit of boundary setting for the next encounter and to remind their teams about some actions that can be fired up about. KML will remember that play in the next game.
Though post play is never for the faint of heart, it is also not for the chicken of whistle. Though nothing really crossed any egregious line yesterday, we can all remember a round house crusher to a nose that resulted from increasingly over-the-top post play between two then B12 teams a few years ago that the officials seemed to have no clue about or desire to control.

 

[speedoo]

Right up there with June Corteau's call on the Taurasi block -

The ESPN shills (Burke and O'Brien) showed the replay several times, never mentioning the takedown of KML, just sucking up to Tara and Chiney. They did make a point earlier of emphasizing the non-call on Stef, "How is that not a foul !" "That was a foul !!!" "Wasn't that a foul, Rebecca ? "

Pretty soon we're going to find out it's another down year in WCBB.

I've pretty much had it with O'Brien and Burke. They have become un-listenable.

 

[CCinCT]

I agree with you, Biff...Stewart clearly avoids fouling Chiney on the play...an almost impossible bit of body control!

On the rebound between Kaleena and Chiney, Kaleena jumps to her right to get the rebound and she and Chiney meet at the apex of the jump. My take is that Chiney controlled the ball and Kaleena fell because Chiney was over her center of gravity with the ball and Kaleena was at an angle that made her unstable. I wouldn't call that a purposeful take down, just a hard play where the off-balance player couldn't stay vertical.

The lean Kaleena used is the same lean she employed on the shot she took where she went down and sustained her concussion in the paint. I commented on it in one of the threads. Our players...especially Breanna and Kaleena, have to be schooled on maintaining their center of balance within their feet...most especially in the lane were a fall can be much worse if it results in a collision with a large moving player.

An exemplar of perfect balance is Kelly...she routinely absorbs contact from much larger players but can maintain her feet because of her compact body position...

KML fell because Chiney has her arm wrapped around KML's and yanks down with KML leaning backwards. Unless of course, some dastardly UCONN fan photoshopped the pic in RealHusky's post ?

 

[DobbsRover2]

I agree with you, Biff...Stewart clearly avoids fouling Chiney on the play...an almost impossible bit of body control!

On the rebound between Kaleena and Chiney, Kaleena jumps to her right to get the rebound and she and Chiney meet at the apex of the jump. My take is that Chiney controlled the ball and Kaleena fell because Chiney was over her center of gravity with the ball and Kaleena was at an angle that made her unstable. I wouldn't call that a purposeful take down, just a hard play where the off-balance player couldn't stay vertical.

The lean Kaleena used is the same lean she employed on the shot she took where she went down and sustained her concussion in the paint. I commented on it in one of the threads. Our players...especially Breanna and Kaleena, have to be schooled on maintaining their center of balance within their feet...most especially in the lane were a fall can be much worse if it results in a collision with a large moving player.

An exemplar of perfect balance is Kelly...she routinely absorbs contact from much larger players but can maintain her feet because of her compact body position...

Ah no. What you are avoiding mentioning is that though KML was on a bit of a lean, CO clearly levels the forearm on the forehead and drives KML downward to the floor. It's not dirty, it's just a blatantly hard foul. Saying basketball players have to learn to "keep their feet under them" is just silly. These players know quite well after many years of tough competition in the paint how to keep their balance or they wouldn't still be playing. The issue is when a player wants to be a little extra aggressive in going for a ball and puts an extra force into a vulnerable player who's extended while putting in the extra effort to corral a rebound. It's simple to undercut a player when they're up in the air or to throw them down when they're extended; it's another thing to reward them for it.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Ah no. What you are avoiding mentioning is that though KML was on a bit of a lean, CO clearly levels the forearm on the forehead and drives KML downward to the floor. It's not dirty, it's just a blatantly hard foul. Saying basketball players have to learn to "keep their feet under them" is just silly. These players know quite well after many years of tough competition in the paint how to keep their balance or they wouldn't still be playing. The issue is when a player wants to be a little extra aggressive in going for a ball and puts an extra force into a vulnerable player who's extended while putting in the extra effort to corral a rebound. It's simple to undercut a player when they're up in the air or to throw them down when they're extended; it's another thing to reward them for it.

That's not what I see, and my comments regarding the balance issues stand.

KML is doing a lot more than she's ever done before...particularly down low...and she's already taken two dangerous falls in the first eleven games and suffered one concussion. That should be sufficient evidence of something that needs work.

 

[cferraro04]

Biff's video expresses exactly what I laid out in my comments. CD and Geno have the best seats in the house...they are bound to see things that we sitting at home can't see. If Geno is getting a technical and CD is calling someone out...I have to think that they saw something I was unable to see. Getting on CD for calling someone out without flushing out the facts was a little premature for me, especially given CD's history...she doesn't go off willy-nilly at the mouth...so why now, all of a sudden? The facts favor that she saw something that either she felt was a dangerous precedent or she saw something that went to the integrity of the game and hence she spoke out about it. Her not mentioning names was her way of being courteous but still making her point. She knew those that were curious enough would be able to figure out who she was talking about and she certainly knew that the person whom she was referring to would know it was pointed at them.

With regards to CO's over the back on KML the point here isn't whether or not it was intentional, or whether or not CO is a person one should loss respect for...the issue here is the referees compounded a bad situation by rewarding CO an "and 1". There were three possible calls there to be made:

1. Foul of CO (which was the correct call)
2. A no-call (it would have been incorrect but most would have excused it as simply hard play on COs part and the referees letting them play).
3. A call against Stewart while ignoring the previous foul committed by CO on KML (which was preposterous, incorrect and the reason why people hate watching women's college basketball...because the refereeing is atrocious).

 

[Vowelguy]

The ESPN shills (Burke and O'Brien) showed the replay several times, never mentioning the takedown of KML, just sucking up to Tara and Chiney.

LOL!
You are dead wrong.

They did make a point earlier of emphasizing the non-call on Stef, "How is that not a foul !" "That was a foul !!!" "Wasn't that a foul, Rebecca ? "

It _was_ a foul, and Rebecca said so.

 

[CCinCT]

Agreed it was a foul on Stef - but Burke and O'Brien NEVER mention the takedown on KML, and never questioned the "foul" on CO by Stewart.

 

[cferraro04]

Everybody agrees that the refs blew the foul on Stefanie in the first half...and true that Geno would have put Stefanie on the bench and probably would have resulted in Stanford breaking 40 points. However, this discussion isn't simply about blown calls by the refs as there were blown calls on both sides of the basketball in that game. The issue in this thread was CDs comments post game and were they warranted...and I believe they were. One thing that apparently got under CD and Geno's skin was the pre-game comments made by Tara where she tried to create the narrative that Stanford doesn't play physical and that she saw this game as being just a good basketball game between two talented teams. I think CD's comment about saying something and doing something else was pretty indicative of her motivation for speaking out.

 

[DobbsRover2]

That's not what I see, and my comments regarding the balance issues stand.

KML is doing a lot more than she's ever done before...particularly down low...and she's already taken two dangerous falls in the first eleven games and suffered one concussion. That should be sufficient evidence of something that needs work.

Okay, Marissa will have KML practice getting plainly hooked by an opponent driving through her arms (check the photograph and observe what is happening to KML's right arm), then look at the video to see what happens after CO assumes control over KML's head and yanks the ball downward with the forearm into KML's head. Just keep your feet under you, KML.

Okay, I understand you don't see this, but again saying that players must learn how maintain a sense of balance in these situations is just silly, and I'll stand by that. Just like I'll stand by the fact that when a player crashes into a UConn guard and forearms them in the head (which has happened in times past) is not a situation where you say the guard should be more aware and learn to anticipate that a player will thrust out their arm in the general direction of your cranium as you pass by.

 

[OneTrickPony]

KML fell because Chiney has her arm wrapped around KML's and yanks down with KML leaning backwards. Unless of course, some dastardly UCONN fan photoshopped the pic in RealHusky's post ?

To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?

 

[Icebear]

To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?

Sorry, OTP but Chiney has KML wrapped up at her shoulder and pulls her down. Both were going for the ball KML puts a hand first by a fraction of a second but that does entitle Chiney to pull down KML by physical contact. That contact is readily visible in both the still and the video clip.

 

[CCinCT]

Never said there was any malice aforethought - But it WAS a foul by CO, and the call against Stewart afterwards is just laughable - WCBB officiating sucks big time, and it's too often displayed on national TV (I won't grant ESPNU the distinction of being "national" TV).

All commentators, not just ESPN, shy away from questioning terrible calls even when it's patently obvious even to the casual fan that something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Okay, Marissa will have KML practice getting plainly hooked by an opponent driving through her arms (check the photograph and observe what is happening to KML's right arm), then look at the video to see what happens after CO assumes control over KML's head and yanks the ball downward with the forearm into KML's head. Just keep your feet under you, KML.

Okay, I understand you don't see this, but again saying that players must learn how maintain a sense of balance in these situations is just silly, and I'll stand by that. Just like I'll stand by the fact that when a player crashes into a UConn guard and forearms them in the head (which has happened in times past) is not a situation where you say the guard should be more aware and learn to anticipate that a player will thrust out their arm in the general direction of your cranium as you pass by.

I certainly expect the coaches to work on this, especially after having the benefit of reviewing the film. I'm not sure why that puzzles you...would Kaleena suffering a serious injury be any less worrisome if the other player was called for a foul? Both players grab the ball and at that instant Chiney jerked the ball hard into her body just as she's been taught. The fact that Kaleena was jumping into her path wasn't under her control and doesn't imply any malice on her part as far as I can see.

And, yes, players are routinely coached on how to maintain balance on contact and how to avoid be grabbed and impeded. And players with the talents that Kaleena and Breanna have, need those skills at this level...and I have no doubt they'll be we'll schooled before they graduate.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Sorry, OTP but Chiney has KML wrapped up at her shoulder and pulls her down. Both were going for the ball KML puts a hand first by a fraction of a second but that does entitle Chiney to pull down KML by physical contact. That contact is readily visible in both the still and the video clip.

We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I certainly expect the coaches to work on this, especially after having the benefit of reviewing the film. I'm not sure why that puzzles you...would Kaleena suffering a serious injury be any less worrisome if the other player was called for a foul? Both players grab the ball and at that instant Chiney jerked the ball hard into her body just as she's been taught. The fact that Kaleena was jumping into her path wasn't under her control and doesn't imply any malice on her part as far as I can see.

And, yes, players are routinely coached on how to maintain balance on contact and how to avoid be grabbed and impeded. And players with the talents that Kaleena and Breanna have, need those skills at this level...and I have no doubt they'll be we'll schooled before they graduate.

Of course, players are always taught how not to be injured, and it sometimes still happens. But again, they are also taught to go after balls and extend themselves to get rebounds -- to make the extra effort. Not sure if you noticed but not all caroms come directly to you and instead are outside of your comfort zone and you have to extend yourself if you want to get them. If while doing this, an opposing player hooks your arm and slams her arm into your head to send you to the floor, you can perhaps say that you need to learn how to somehow keep your feet under you -- or you can say that's an foul and maybe you should go off on that player with 30+ points the next time you meet them.

But yes, Marissa will be teaching the automaton "straight-up and feet under-you" only style of rebounding at tomorrow's practice. And while she's at it she will throwing in the old butt-thrust payback technique for players who come over the back and drag you down.

 

[Icebear]

We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.

Both players had lateral movement, not just KML. The foul involves wrapping up and pulling KML down by her arm. That is a clear violation of the rules. Nothing else matters. If one wanted to one might have argued that KML fouled Chiney moving into her but that was not the call and would not have been a shooting foul, but both players are entitled to pursuit of the ball and both moved into each other. What is illegal is pulling down the other player without control of the ball (see the still). Clearly, Chiney did not have control of the ball when she was pulling down KML.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Both players had lateral movement, not just KML. The foul involves wrapping up and pulling KML down by her arm. That is a clear violation of the rules. Nothing else matters. If one wanted to one might have argued that KML fouled Chiney moving into her but that was not the call and would not have been a shooting foul, but both players are entitled to pursuit of the ball and both moved into each other. What is illegal is pulling down the other player without control of the ball (see the still). Clearly, Chiney did not have control of the ball when she was pulling down KML.

I looked at it again to be sure of what I see...here's what I see best in the last super slo-mo...Chiney grabs the ball at its apex with both hands...Kaleena has one hand on the ball and is travelling into Chiney. They both pull down on the ball and Kaleenas hand on the ball pulls downward on Chiney's right arm and her right hand comes off the ball while her left hand controls it. Chiney makes a downward jerking motion with her right hand that you must be interpreting as pushing Kaleena down. To me, it looks like Kaleena may have hooked Chiney's arm going down and Chiney was trying to free herself. Admittedly, I can't see that particular interaction well enough to lay any blame either way. If CD saw that Chiney's arm wasn't hooked and she just shoved down a falling player...that would explain her reaction...but wasn't Chiney's body obscuring her view?

In any event, I can't see enough evidence in this film to level a serious accusation like that and I, consequently, don't think a complaint will be made in the matter.

 

[grizz36]

Considering the past history of these two teams, it li fairly likely that they could meet up again in April, so coaches are always looking to the future and trying to do a little bit of boundary setting for the next encounter and to remind their teams about some actions that can be fired up about. KML will remember that play in the next game.
Though post play is never for the faint of heart, it is also not for the chicken of whistle. Though nothing really crossed any egregious line yesterday, we can all remember a round house crusher to a nose that resulted from increasingly over-the-top post play between two then B12 teams a few years ago that the officials seemed to have no clue about or desire to control.

Nevetheless, the banging will continue as it always has and always will.

 

[Bestiarius]

To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?

From viewing the video, I agree with OneTrick and don't think the "take down" was the dirty play it appears to be. Both players went up for the rebound with CO in a better (more balanced) position to get the ball, KML only option was to jump to the side causing her to be easily be pulled down (leverage) as CO tried to get both hands on the ball to take the shot. The ball was in CO's left hand trapped against her hip. Unfortunately, KML's head was in a direct line between CO's right hand and the ball. So when she moved her hand down, KML's head was in the path and she pushed it out of the way. I see no malice in the move. The ref could have seen KML jump in front of and into CO and thought that was also a foul. In any case, there are differences in how we interpret the same event with multiple views in slo-mo at our leisure. I say, give the refs a break on this one.

 

[Icebear]

I don't think it was a dirty play at all. Just a foul.