In WTIC's "Dailey Recap" CD Expresses Disappointment... | Page 3 | The Boneyard

In WTIC's "Dailey Recap" CD Expresses Disappointment...

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CCinCT said:
The ESPN shills (Burke and O'Brien) showed the replay several times, never mentioning the takedown of KML, just sucking up to Tara and Chiney.
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LOL!
You are dead wrong.

They did make a point earlier of emphasizing the non-call on Stef, "How is that not a foul !" "That was a foul !!!" "Wasn't that a foul, Rebecca ? "
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It _was_ a foul, and Rebecca said so.
 
Agreed it was a foul on Stef - but Burke and O'Brien NEVER mention the takedown on KML, and never questioned the "foul" on CO by Stewart.
 
Everybody agrees that the refs blew the foul on Stefanie in the first half...and true that Geno would have put Stefanie on the bench and probably would have resulted in Stanford breaking 40 points. However, this discussion isn't simply about blown calls by the refs as there were blown calls on both sides of the basketball in that game. The issue in this thread was CDs comments post game and were they warranted...and I believe they were. One thing that apparently got under CD and Geno's skin was the pre-game comments made by Tara where she tried to create the narrative that Stanford doesn't play physical and that she saw this game as being just a good basketball game between two talented teams. I think CD's comment about saying something and doing something else was pretty indicative of her motivation for speaking out.
 
OneTrickPony said:
That's not what I see, and my comments regarding the balance issues stand.

KML is doing a lot more than she's ever done before...particularly down low...and she's already taken two dangerous falls in the first eleven games and suffered one concussion. That should be sufficient evidence of something that needs work.
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Okay, Marissa will have KML practice getting plainly hooked by an opponent driving through her arms (check the photograph and observe what is happening to KML's right arm), then look at the video to see what happens after CO assumes control over KML's head and yanks the ball downward with the forearm into KML's head. Just keep your feet under you, KML.

Okay, I understand you don't see this, but again saying that players must learn how maintain a sense of balance in these situations is just silly, and I'll stand by that. Just like I'll stand by the fact that when a player crashes into a UConn guard and forearms them in the head (which has happened in times past) is not a situation where you say the guard should be more aware and learn to anticipate that a player will thrust out their arm in the general direction of your cranium as you pass by.
 
CCinCT said:
KML fell because Chiney has her arm wrapped around KML's and yanks down with KML leaning backwards. Unless of course, some dastardly UCONN fan photoshopped the pic in RealHusky's post ?
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To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?
 
OneTrickPony said:
To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?
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Sorry, OTP but Chiney has KML wrapped up at her shoulder and pulls her down. Both were going for the ball KML puts a hand first by a fraction of a second but that does entitle Chiney to pull down KML by physical contact. That contact is readily visible in both the still and the video clip.
 
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Never said there was any malice aforethought - But it WAS a foul by CO, and the call against Stewart afterwards is just laughable - WCBB officiating sucks big time, and it's too often displayed on national TV (I won't grant ESPNU the distinction of being "national" TV).

All commentators, not just ESPN, shy away from questioning terrible calls even when it's patently obvious even to the casual fan that something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
 
DobbsRover2 said:
Okay, Marissa will have KML practice getting plainly hooked by an opponent driving through her arms (check the photograph and observe what is happening to KML's right arm), then look at the video to see what happens after CO assumes control over KML's head and yanks the ball downward with the forearm into KML's head. Just keep your feet under you, KML.

Okay, I understand you don't see this, but again saying that players must learn how maintain a sense of balance in these situations is just silly, and I'll stand by that. Just like I'll stand by the fact that when a player crashes into a UConn guard and forearms them in the head (which has happened in times past) is not a situation where you say the guard should be more aware and learn to anticipate that a player will thrust out their arm in the general direction of your cranium as you pass by.
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I certainly expect the coaches to work on this, especially after having the benefit of reviewing the film. I'm not sure why that puzzles you...would Kaleena suffering a serious injury be any less worrisome if the other player was called for a foul? Both players grab the ball and at that instant Chiney jerked the ball hard into her body just as she's been taught. The fact that Kaleena was jumping into her path wasn't under her control and doesn't imply any malice on her part as far as I can see.

And, yes, players are routinely coached on how to maintain balance on contact and how to avoid be grabbed and impeded. And players with the talents that Kaleena and Breanna have, need those skills at this level...and I have no doubt they'll be we'll schooled before they graduate.
 
Icebear said:
Sorry, OTP but Chiney has KML wrapped up at her shoulder and pulls her down. Both were going for the ball KML puts a hand first by a fraction of a second but that does entitle Chiney to pull down KML by physical contact. That contact is readily visible in both the still and the video clip.
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We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.
 
OneTrickPony said:
I certainly expect the coaches to work on this, especially after having the benefit of reviewing the film. I'm not sure why that puzzles you...would Kaleena suffering a serious injury be any less worrisome if the other player was called for a foul? Both players grab the ball and at that instant Chiney jerked the ball hard into her body just as she's been taught. The fact that Kaleena was jumping into her path wasn't under her control and doesn't imply any malice on her part as far as I can see.

And, yes, players are routinely coached on how to maintain balance on contact and how to avoid be grabbed and impeded. And players with the talents that Kaleena and Breanna have, need those skills at this level...and I have no doubt they'll be we'll schooled before they graduate.
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Of course, players are always taught how not to be injured, and it sometimes still happens. But again, they are also taught to go after balls and extend themselves to get rebounds -- to make the extra effort. Not sure if you noticed but not all caroms come directly to you and instead are outside of your comfort zone and you have to extend yourself if you want to get them. If while doing this, an opposing player hooks your arm and slams her arm into your head to send you to the floor, you can perhaps say that you need to learn how to somehow keep your feet under you -- or you can say that's an foul and maybe you should go off on that player with 30+ points the next time you meet them.

But yes, Marissa will be teaching the automaton "straight-up and feet under-you" only style of rebounding at tomorrow's practice. And while she's at it she will throwing in the old butt-thrust payback technique for players who come over the back and drag you down.
 
OneTrickPony said:
We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.
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Both players had lateral movement, not just KML. The foul involves wrapping up and pulling KML down by her arm. That is a clear violation of the rules. Nothing else matters. If one wanted to one might have argued that KML fouled Chiney moving into her but that was not the call and would not have been a shooting foul, but both players are entitled to pursuit of the ball and both moved into each other. What is illegal is pulling down the other player without control of the ball (see the still). Clearly, Chiney did not have control of the ball when she was pulling down KML.
 
Icebear said:
Both players had lateral movement, not just KML. The foul involves wrapping up and pulling KML down by her arm. That is a clear violation of the rules. Nothing else matters. If one wanted to one might have argued that KML fouled Chiney moving into her but that was not the call and would not have been a shooting foul, but both players are entitled to pursuit of the ball and both moved into each other. What is illegal is pulling down the other player without control of the ball (see the still). Clearly, Chiney did not have control of the ball when she was pulling down KML.
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I looked at it again to be sure of what I see...here's what I see best in the last super slo-mo...Chiney grabs the ball at its apex with both hands...Kaleena has one hand on the ball and is travelling into Chiney. They both pull down on the ball and Kaleenas hand on the ball pulls downward on Chiney's right arm and her right hand comes off the ball while her left hand controls it. Chiney makes a downward jerking motion with her right hand that you must be interpreting as pushing Kaleena down. To me, it looks like Kaleena may have hooked Chiney's arm going down and Chiney was trying to free herself. Admittedly, I can't see that particular interaction well enough to lay any blame either way. If CD saw that Chiney's arm wasn't hooked and she just shoved down a falling player...that would explain her reaction...but wasn't Chiney's body obscuring her view?

In any event, I can't see enough evidence in this film to level a serious accusation like that and I, consequently, don't think a complaint will be made in the matter.
 
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DobbsRover2 said:
Considering the past history of these two teams, it li fairly likely that they could meet up again in April, so coaches are always looking to the future and trying to do a little bit of boundary setting for the next encounter and to remind their teams about some actions that can be fired up about. KML will remember that play in the next game.
Though post play is never for the faint of heart, it is also not for the chicken of whistle. Though nothing really crossed any egregious line yesterday, we can all remember a round house crusher to a nose that resulted from increasingly over-the-top post play between two then B12 teams a few years ago that the officials seemed to have no clue about or desire to control.
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Nevetheless, the banging will continue as it always has and always will.
 
OneTrickPony said:
To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?
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From viewing the video, I agree with OneTrick and don't think the "take down" was the dirty play it appears to be. Both players went up for the rebound with CO in a better (more balanced) position to get the ball, KML only option was to jump to the side causing her to be easily be pulled down (leverage) as CO tried to get both hands on the ball to take the shot. The ball was in CO's left hand trapped against her hip. Unfortunately, KML's head was in a direct line between CO's right hand and the ball. So when she moved her hand down, KML's head was in the path and she pushed it out of the way. I see no malice in the move. The ref could have seen KML jump in front of and into CO and thought that was also a foul. In any case, there are differences in how we interpret the same event with multiple views in slo-mo at our leisure. I say, give the refs a break on this one.
 
While the O takedown of KML was visually rough it was a spontanious action that was made to look worse because KML got caught of balance. I thought O made a clean rebound. The CD comment IMO was all about the closelining of the UConn high posts when they tried to release to the low post. Several of the Stanford players used extended arms in the head and neck area of the UConn players who were without the ball. Those plays, since they occurred multiple times (most notably by O against Stewart just before Geno got T'd up) and were done by several tree players, had to have been coached, putting the label of liar and hypocrit to Tara's assertion that the Trees don't play like that. Cheap head and neck shots to players without the ball is the type of physical play the game can do without.
 
I noticed it most when CO was defending Stewie. It was blatant and intentional!
 
Bestiarius said:
From viewing the video, I agree with OneTrick and don't think the "take down" was the dirty play it appears to be. Both players went up for the rebound with CO in a better (more balanced) position to get the ball, KML only option was to jump to the side causing her to be easily be pulled down (leverage) as CO tried to get both hands on the ball to take the shot. The ball was in CO's left hand trapped against her hip. Unfortunately, KML's head was in a direct line between CO's right hand and the ball. So when she moved her hand down, KML's head was in the path and she pushed it out of the way. I see no malice in the move. The ref could have seen KML jump in front of and into CO and thought that was also a foul. In any case, there are differences in how we interpret the same event with multiple views in slo-mo at our leisure. I say, give the refs a break on this one.
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Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.
 
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DobbsRover2 said:
Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.
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Kaleena had an arm on the ball and was pulling it down with her weight...Chiney had to pull the ball toward her body to rebound it...there was no way to go up as you suggest without just ceding the rebound...hardly something you can expect an AA to do in that situation...

Chiney got handled beautifully in this game, there's no need to make this more than it was...
 
In regards to CD's comment, as Louie Carnesecca once famously told Jim Calhoun: "You can only coach one team at a time." Not to stir up the pot, but should CD be making a comment like that in a game where Geno yelled at a fan to "shut the duck* up"?

Great game by UConn, most likely frustration on the part of Stanford players. Let's not make it out to be more than that.
 
OneTrickPony said:
Kaleena had an arm on the ball and was pulling it down with her weight...Chiney had to pull the ball toward her body to rebound it...there was no way to go up as you suggest without just ceding the rebound...hardly something you can expect an AA to do in that situation...

Chiney got handled beautifully in this game, there's no need to make this more than it was...
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It's funny the difference between the game at Maples in 2010 and 2012. Each year, one team kept the opposing number one scorer in check. In 2010, Stanford thought they played Maya well, yet UConn thought Stanford was too physical, to this year UConn thought they handled Chiney beautifully and we Stanford fans think calls were missed, a few on Dolson in particular. Just an observation, nothing more.
 
DobbsRover2 said:
Nah, it's a foul. KML has the carom coming off a little to her right and CO is digging from the middle to get the rebound and they both go for the ball. But CO goes through KML's arm (maybe okay) but then lowers the boom by driving her forearm down on KML's head when that was not the preferred route for a rebound but was if you wanted to floor an opponent. If CO had gotten the ball and swept it upward as a rebounder would normally do, there would be no issue and I would say there was no real foul since the arm contact was just in the battle for the ball (though Cardfan seems to think touching a Stanford player is taboo -- bring on the Card pics), but the foul occurred when CO drove her arms downward on KML's noggin. But like I said, save it up for the next meeting and make CO go 2-22 next time.
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I never said anything of the kind. My point was the game was physical, although tame by many other games I've seen, but BOTH teams participated in the style. I didn't see any angels flying around Maples.
 
OneTrickPony said:
To me it looks like they are both grabbing for the ball simultaneously...not each other...and Chiney's momentum takes Kaleena backward while she's already off balance to her right. Unless Chiney just releases the ball, Kaleena can't stay up. I don't see how this fall can be attributed to any malice...looks like two tough players going at it. Why try to tar Chiney when there's every indication it was unintentional?
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exactly. I can't believe all the fuss over this play when players just got tangled up going for the ball.
 
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OneTrickPony said:
We'll have to disagree...Chiney ripping the ball down is exactly what she's trained to do on a contested rebound. You can argue it's a foul, but even then Kaleena is jumping at an angle into her path so it isn't a classical OTB call...both players have intersecting paths and the only reason Chiney is higher is because she's bigger and jumping on balance vertically. I just can't say this was deliberate and malicious...much as I love Kaleena.
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again, I agree. :)
 
cardfan said:
exactly. I can't believe all the fuss over this play when players just got tangled up going for the ball.
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It is because several times Chiney threw players down to the floor. Not once, not twice. It is a pattern of how it was done.
 
Icebear said:
It is because several times Chiney threw players down to the floor. Not once, not twice. It is a pattern of how it was done.
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Oh please. A pattern of Chiney throwing people to the floor....? How can Dolson dominate Chiney AND Chiney throw people to the floor, several times no less? Makes no sense.
 
She does it quite easily by hooking arms on players and then swinging them. She did it to Dolson and KML in addition to the other takedown of KML.
 
cardfan said:
It's funny the difference between the game at Maples in 2010 and 2012. Each year, one team kept the opposing number one scorer in check. In 2010, Stanford thought they played Maya well, yet UConn thought Stanford was too physical, to this year UConn thought they handled Chiney beautifully and we Stanford fans think calls were missed, a few on Dolson in particular. Just an observation, nothing more.
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I appreciate the symmetry... ;)

I've mentioned that I thought Chiney was allowed to be way too physical with Maya in the 2010 game...although I admit to some bias with regard to Ms. Maya whom I've followed since high school here in Atlanta. It was very gratifying to see the referees let Stef play this year the way they let Chiney play then.

That said cardfan, I have no illusions about Chiney's physical style of play...she uses her hands and arms and takes everything the referees allow. The reason people get concerned about a play like the one where Kaleena went down is that they don't want to see someone hurt. In a pickup game in the gym if a male player did that, he'd be laid out on the very next play. Icebear, being the gentleman he is, settles for a little chiding which I think should be allowed, don't you...?
 
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