I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[Stray_Dog]

You don't have any evidence. You're using a ridiculous premise. Since logic isn't your strong suit, apparently, let me let you in on some secrets.

Signing a document/contract with one entity doesn't prove they aren't interested in another entity, sir. Suggesting otherwise is as idiotic as insinuating that because you buy a Honda, therefore you have no interest in a Toyota.

Furthermore, just because one party isn't already a member of one entity, doesn't prove that they won't be. Strike two, sir. That's as idiotic as saying that because someone signed a new lease for an apartment, they must have no interest in buying a house because if they did, they already would have bought one.

You have no evidence that the Big Ten actually offered Virginia (they didn't, by the way). That they're still in the ACC is immaterial to whether or not they're interested or could be interested.

I understand your need to offer a rebuttal to each of his points, but wouldn't it have been better to make him look-up and define the word possibility??? Just asking!

 

[kyleslamb]

Yeah those are professions where people get paid...

Did you not realize that from 2003-2009, my job was as a beat writer covering college athletics? I still write freelance, but if you want, since I don't use an anonymous screen name you can very easily verify what I did for a living for six years. When working in athletics, you tend to get to know other writers, administrators, trustees, publishers, parents, coaches, athletics, etc. Sometimes some of these relationships wind up becoming friendships.

 

[kyleslamb]

I understand your need to offer a rebuttal to each of his points, but wouldn't it have been better to make him look-up and define the word possibility??? Just asking!

That would have been easier, admittedly lol

 

[Stray_Dog]

Yes, it is as dumb and juvenile as the "Notre Lame", "Notre Dumb" , "Neuter Dumb", "Notre Shame" and other such "idiotic, disparaging terms" used by Big Ten and other fans when discussing ND.

Those terms should never be used by adults (or anyone over 14) on any sports message board. All are equally immature.

Note that I never use such a term, although I always state "Big Ten" instead of that recent "B1G" attempt at rebranding by that conference. Likewise, I never call that school in Los Angeles by the name "USC". I always use the traditional "Southern Cal", but I never use some sort of disparaging moniker when discussing schools/conferences.

so the Judas University would be....???

 

[billybud]

Oh gawd...we have Kyleslamb trying to interpret the intracacies of a GOR...and proslytizing as if he knew media law...and everybody is so sure of the board narrative,,,tthat he ACC must fail...Va must go to the Big Ten....I'd much, much sooner to just put my money on black as to bet such.

 

[Dooley]

Well today's Boneyard threads sure do suck. I open one up to read that Delany wants to move his hoops tournament to MSG "to welcome (friggin') RUTGERS"!?!?! To calm down, I come over to this one because it has a pro-UCONN title and I love the idea of UCONN to the B1G and what do I read? B friggin' C talk. Enough. BC is not AAU (we've been told this is important), has a very mediocre athletic department (except for hockey), is not a flagship (not even in its own CITY), and is not public (i.e. small private enrollment). In other words, they are the complete opposite of what we are told the B1G is looking for in expansion.

I'm going to take a BY break for about a hour. Please sort this out and get back to talking about the merits of UCONN...not BC.

 

[kyleslamb]

Oh gawd...we have Kyleslamb trying to interpret the intracacies of a GOR...and proslytizing as if he knew media law...and everybody is so sure of the board narrative,,,tthat he ACC must fail...Va must go to the Big Ten....I'd much, much sooner to just put my money on black as to bet such.

Could you show me where I've said the ACC would definitely fail and that UVa or UNC would definitely go to the Big Ten?

Please show me these comments. I trust you wouldn't be purposely building a strawman from my stance, would you?

I would also challenge you to point out what I've said about the GoR that is, in your opinion, mistaken and on what legal premise. I wonder how someone can boldly dismiss comments from another person without themselves claiming to have knowledge about it.

This was the point I made earlier. You're blindly trying to misrepresent and/or dismiss everything I say without refuting any specific points. That's a big old magic trick, frankly.

 

[whaler11]

Did you not realize that from 2003-2009, my job was as a beat writer covering college athletics? I still write freelance, but if you want, since I don't use an anonymous screen name you can very easily verify what I did for a living for six years. When working in athletics, you tend to get to know other writers, administrators, trustees, publishers, parents, coaches, athletics, etc. Sometimes some of these relationships wind up becoming friendships.

Let's go back to your journalism days... I bet you asked questions. You do realize I've asked you a dozen questions in this thread and you haven't answered a single one.

Now your stance is you have inside information from all these sources and you are sharing it freely on a message board and yet your assumption is that people will continue to share with you.

That the captain of the PTA and CAHusky like your posts is fairly hilarious. I'm glad Art was able to find time between cutting up oranges and organizing bake sales to get on your bandwagon.

 

[billybud]

Kyle...I understand contract law probably a little better than you might think...handled FSU's contracts for a time when I was employed by the President's office, was an administrative law judge, and have issued 1000's of decisions.

Not saying that media law is my forte...but I have worked with contracts in one way or another for 30 years...

 

[kyleslamb]

Kyle...I understand contract law probably a little better than you might think...handled FSU's contracts for a time when I was employed by the President's office, was an administrative law judge, and have issued 1000's of decisions.

Not saying that media law is my forte...but I have worked with contracts in one way or another for 30 years...

So only people that have worked with contracts for 30 years can understand them or understand the fundamentals of law? Got it.

I'd still appreciate you actually bother to have a discussion about what specific points you disagree with about the premise of what I've said. Interestingly, you haven't bothered to disagree with anything. Instead, you're just making sweeping generalizations about me.

I've said the following:

* That the purpose of a Grant of Rights is to protect the media partners, so that they can be confident they'll continue to receive the value of the teams they pay for when dealing with a conference. What part of this, if any, do you disagree with?

* That for any contract to be enforceable, both sides must receive consideration. Do you disagree with this?

* That for 30+ years, conferences have acquired the broadcast rights of its conference members in exchange for negotiation rights with media partners, and then the league payouts of such media revenue is then re-distributed to league members. What part of this, if any, do you disagree with?

* That no entity may be bound to another party, as it has a right to make a living, meaning any contract stipulation cannot be punitive or overly obtrusive in scope. What part, if any, do you disagree with?

* That due to these things, if the league were to stop compensating a departed member for its rights, therefore it would be in violation of the spirit of the consideration of the contract as well as the idea that no person/entity should be bound to another.

It astounds me your implication that another person cannot know anything about law unless they're a lawyer, but what's worse, is that I don't see you disagreeing on any of these points. Instead, you'd rather just make sweeping, ad hominem attacks at me.

 

[kyleslamb]

Let's go back to your journalism days... I bet you asked questions. You do realize I've asked you a dozen questions in this thread and you haven't answered a single one.

Now your stance is you have inside information from all these sources and you are sharing it freely on a message board and yet your assumption is that people will continue to share with you.

That the captain of the PTA and CAHusky like your posts is fairly hilarious. I'm glad Art was able to find time between cutting up oranges and organizing bake sales to get on your bandwagon.

I've answered plenty of your questions. Problem is, they've all been ridiculous and based on logical fallacies and petty strawmen, so it was pointless to continue answering them.

You made up your mind anyhow. Not sure why you care about my answers.

 

[whaler11]

I've answered plenty of your questions. Problem is, they've all been ridiculous and based on logical fallacies and petty strawmen, so it was pointless to continue answering them.

You have literally answered zero.

So I'll line it up for you again - since you've answered so many should be easy.

1. Why are you here? What would possibly drive you to write Spackler like diatribes about the Big 10 and their wisdom?

2. If you have sources why would you sell them out so publicly on a fan website with absolutely no benefit?

3. Why would Virginia sign a GOR with the ACC after Maryland left if they wanted to join the Big 10?

 

[whaler11]

So I took Mr Lamb's offer and used the Google.

His Twitter avatar is a picture of a bear answering a phone with the text 'Mr Swofford, Cincinnati is on the line'.

Now I know I'm not good with da logix, but Mr Lamb is just a better spoken version of the WVU idiots.

Certainly a 'journalist' would not have missed the classes where they covered the concepts of impartiality.

Now some of you make sure to like his posts and wash his balls because he's telling you what you want to hear.

 

[whaler11]

If you want the inside word on the Big 10 - the place to get is a washed out Ohio State blogger who works for a company selling cell phones.

Seriously you can not even make up the nonsense you read here.

 

[Drimple]

If you want the inside word on the Big 10 - the place to get is a washed out Ohio State blogger who works for a company selling cell phones.

Seriously you can not even make up the nonsense you read here.

Don't listen to this blowhard trying to shout everyone else down like a barroom meathead.

Personally, I appreciate kylelamb's contributions even if I don't necessarily agree with everything he's said. At least what he adds is interesting to read. What else do you want on a speculative board like this? His opinions are as valid as anyone else's.

Better than "Come at me bro, how much you wanna bet?" Bla bla bla. Give it a rest already. Nobody cares.

 

[whaler11]

Don't listen to this blowhard trying to shout everyone else down like a barroom meathead.

Personally, I appreciate kylelamb's contributions even if I don't necessarily agree with everything he's said. At least what he adds is interesting to read. What else do you want on a speculative board like this? His opinions are as valid as anyone else's.

Better than "Come at me bro, how much you wanna bet?" Bla bla bla. Give it a rest already. Nobody cares.

Oh good another complete clown.

You appreciate a washed out Ohio State blogger taking his jihad against the ACC to a UConn message board.

His sources are so good he works for an independent cell phone retailer.

Seriously how lost do you have to be to take someone like that at his word?

 

[Dooley]

As a B12 alum (Texas), I also think it will be the B12 that craters and not the ACC.

There are 3 keys to the continued viability of the B12, and in order of importance those keys are: Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. However, the importance of the schools is actually an inverted pyramid because Texas can definitely be forced by Oklahoma, and Oklahoma might play along with Kansas if Kansas took a hankering to leave the B12. Thus, Kansas may actually turn out to be the critical domino in the demise of the B12. Here's what I mean ....

Texas' LHN has now found national carriage with DISH and DirecTV will probably be on-board with the LHN by the end of 2014. The LHN will almost certainly prove to give Texas a nice boost in national recruiting, plus there is the prestige factor involved with having your very own 24/7/365 national network dedicated to all things Longhorn. Thus, Texas wants mightily to keep the B12 glued together since it is not at all clear that any other major conference would allow Texas to keep the LHN in its current form if Texas ever migrated out of the B12. Texas, then, is strong for the continued viability of the B12 into the long and distant future.

The glue to Texas' keeping the B12 together is Oklahoma. With the losses of Nebraska, Texas A&M, Colorado, and Missouri, obviously several good football schools in the B12 have been ripped out, leaving only Texas and Oklahoma as recognized football anchors. The B12 is not viable for Texas as the only football power if Oklahoma were ever to migrate out of the B12. So, really, Oklahoma carries a trump card over Texas, "keep us happy or maybe watch your LHN go bye-bye".

Which brings us to Kansas. While I have no information as to the thinking of Kansas' PTB, I can tell you anecdotally that there appears to be a sizable majority of Kansas folks that would like to see Kansas move out of the B12 and into the B1G. And why not? The B12 is severely weakened by previous defections and the B12 footprint has shrunk drastically -- basically to Kansas City and the State of Texas (both of which are shared with the SEC). More importantly, the B12 is not drawing TV viewers outside of the limited B12 footprint. In fact, the B12 is severely slipping in TV ratings behind the SEC in the City of Houston. Also, Kansas lost its major rival in Mizz to the SEC. There is little remaining loyalty to the B12 among Kansas folks that I can glean.

Out of B1G territory, the rumor is that the B1G may have some interest in Kansas, especially if things don't work out for the B1G in adding any more eastern schools. This is not particularly earth-shaking news since Kansas is AAU, the founder of basketball, a basketball powerhouse, is contiguous to the B1G, and therefore brings significant value to the B1G (and the B1G to Kansas). There is every reason to believe that Kansas would be attractive to the B1G, at least in a back-up plan capacity. Personally, I think that if the B1g offered Kansas toward the end of the B12 GOR, and before the GOR is re-upped, Kansas would accept a BiG offer in a heartbeat. This is assumption #1.

How would a Kansas defection, if it happened, affect Texas? Texas wouldn't like a Kansas defection -- not at all -- but Kansas -> B1G wouldn't likely shake Texas out of the B12. So long as Oklahoma stays in the B1G, I have no doubt Texas stays put.

How would a Kansas defection affect Oklahoma? Here I think things get interesting. Oklahoma's PTB yearn for academic validation. Both Boren and Castiglione have been quoted to the effect that they want to raise OU's academics to the first rank. They don't get academic validation in the truncated B12, and, frankly, probably never will. They don't get it in the SEC, no matter how many new AAU schools the SEC has added in the recent past (Mizz and A&M). Oklahoma would get academic validation in the B1G, being able to join the CIC, with fast-track toward AAU membership. Oklahoma would also re-establish the OU-NU rivalry, no small matter. I also think the Sooners would guess that they could preserve OU-Texas even if Texas didn't follow them to the B1G. I think, if offered by the B1G (that's a big "if"), there is a very distinct probability that Oklahoma would follow Kansas to the B1G. OU to the B1G is assumption #2 (and is the weakest of the assumptions).

Thus would Texas' hand be called out. Texas cannot remain in the B12 without Oklahoma because without OU, the B12 loses its last remaining football anchor (other than Texas). If KU and OU defected, ushering in the final crisis of the B12, Texas could probably pick the conference that gave it the best deal on its LHN. To me, the B1G has the most ability to fold in the LHN into the BTN, and, financially, give Texas the best deal there. My guess is that for Texas it would boil down to the B1G and the SEC in the end, with the PAC as an outside possibility. If Texas did join the B1G -- and I personally think we would -- then UConn suddenly comes into focus.

A league of 17 is disjointed. A league of 18 is not as manageable as a league of 20, due to the symmetry of pods, but a league of 18 can work adequately, schedule-wise.

There are a lot of wild-cards.

For example, right now, the B12 grosses more money "per school" than any other conference. If this continues, nobody -- including Kansas -- is going to want to leave the B12. But if the B1G really does begin to gross $44.5M per school beginning in 2017, as rumored, then that might persuade Kansas to hesitate before agreeing to re-up the B12 GOR when that time arises. The B12 is expected to reach $40M-$45M per school, but not until the 2025 time-frame. In 2025, the B1g will undoubtedly be grossing much, much more than $44.5M per school since these TV contracts are always back-loaded. Assumption #3 is that the B1G grosses around $44.5M beginning in 2017, with payouts increasing thereafter.

Also, I think Delany prefers to expand with east coast schools down the eastern seaboard, not schools in the prairie states. I think the B1G is determined to wait out MY-ACC to see if UVA shakes out of the ACC, and then add UVA and some other school to balance out UVA. I used to think that other school would be UConn, but now, after synthesizing dayooper's information about BC upthread (via FtT), I am not so sure. Maybe BC looks a whole lot better to the B1G than I previously realized.

At any rate, if UVA doesn't shake out, then Delany may decide to examine a potential B12 gambit to the west. Delany's said he doesn't want to be responsible for destroying a conference, but maybe that was just talk for public consumption, to make him sound like "a good guy after all." In truth and fact, it appears inevitable today that either the B12 or the ACC is going to be destroyed at some point in the next 10 years. You pick.

If Delany does pull out KU, OU, and Texas from the B12, then I think UConn would be sitting pretty because there's no guarantee at that point that the ACC will ever fracture beyond the loss of Maryland. The ACC GOR might well keep the ACC intact if the B12 is wrecked. And there's UConn at #18 with no GOR to get in the way.

I think B1G and SEC raids on the ACC produce the worst case scenario for UConn. If the B1G and the SEC successfully dismantle the ACC, that might well freeze UConn out of the B1G, in favor of BC, leaving UConn with an option to join a crippled ACC, or, as a remote possibility, a crippled and distant B12. Neither being good choices for UConn, I should think. Of course, there's still the possibility that FtT's information is dated or wrong, and maybe the B1G does esteem UConn more than BC, so there's that, too.

Still ... from the pov of UConn to the B1G, I think it is better for the B1G to raid the B12 and not the ACC. UConn's great advantage is that they are not subject to a GOR. Again, this is all JMO.

Trying to change the subject from the whaler/kyleslamb feud...

I like this post. Seems possible and would seemingly provide UCONN a path to the B1G. B1G invites Kansas and UCONN as 15 and 16, locking up NYC, Kansas City, Hartford, and a wedge of Boston. Also, Delany would instantly upgrade hoops to the level of the ACC while the conference waits for a potential OU/Texas meltdown. If that happened, then that's when the big football addition comes. That gets the B1G to 18 where it can evaluate the leftovers of the B12 or decide to try to challenge the ACC GOR to get to 20.

The question on every UCONN fan's mind is when would UCONN get tapped. We all know UCONN is trapped and the B1G can add them whenever they wanted. But would it make a bit of sense to add UCONN now, give them time to elevate football (while waiting/hoping for OU/Texas), and in the meantime, use UCONN as a catalyst to move eastward into larger markets and hoops prestige (ex - MSG conference tournament). I guess it all depends if conference deregulation will pass so the B1G can feel comfortable (again) sitting on an odd number while it waits out the B12 GOR.

 

[whaler11]

Don't listen to this blowhard trying to shout everyone else down like a barroom meathead.

Personally, I appreciate kylelamb's contributions even if I don't necessarily agree with everything he's said. At least what he adds is interesting to read. What else do you want on a speculative board like this? His opinions are as valid as anyone else's.

Better than "Come at me bro, how much you wanna bet?" Bla bla bla. Give it a rest already. Nobody cares.

That this nonsense gets likes from UConn fans is pretty funny. It's another guy calling the Big 10 'us' who loves an Ohio State blogger.

Hey Drimple... he isn't claiming he is posting his opinion he claims he is posting inside information.

It's not surprising big talkers like Drimple would frown on monetary wagers because they have big mouths and no way to back them up - so they try to pretend that 'adults' don't make wagers. The problem with that stance is the entire American economy is predicated on Americans making wagers. It's called the stock market.

 

[Ha Who]

ZZZZZZZZ. Wake me up when this thread dies. Scary thought - I would rather read a Yawkey way post

 

[kyleslamb]

So I took Mr Lamb's offer and used the Google.

His Twitter avatar is a picture of a bear answering a phone with the text 'Mr Swofford, Cincinnati is on the line'.

Now I know I'm not good with da logix, but Mr Lamb is just a better spoken version of the WVU idiots.

Certainly a 'journalist' would not have missed the classes where they covered the concepts of inpartiality.

Now some of you make sure to like his posts and wash his balls because he's telling you what you want to hear.

If you want the inside word on the Big 10 - the place to get is a washed out Ohio State blogger who works for a company selling cell phones.

Seriously you can not even make up the nonsense you read here.

Oh good another complete clown.

You appreciate a washed out Ohio State blogger taking his jihad against the ACC to a UConn message board.

His sources are so good he works for an independent cell phone retailer.

Seriously how lost do you have to be to take someone like that at his word?

I must really have struck a nerve!

Speaking on behalf of the ordinary people everywhere, what prerequisites are needed to be friends with super important people? Does being a "blogger" disqualify me; that I once worked in the cellular industry too; or is it the harmless meme I have as my Twitter profile pic?

Please educate me on class warfare so I can be moved from the little kids' table at the social gatherings. It makes for boring conversations. You do venom really well, though. In your zeal to thoroughly undress me, you're on a warpath taking shots at everyone in sight. Impressive diatribe, I must say.

 

[CAHUSKY]

That the captain of the PTA and CAHusky like your posts is fairly hilarious. I'm glad Art was able to find time between cutting up oranges and organizing bake sales to get on your bandwagon.

Why hilarious? I liked it because you were ripping him for not being a journalist and he pointed out that for six years he had been. I thought it was funny. You can be pretty opinionated and I didn't mind seeing you be incorrect. I'm sure you'll have a witty reply.

 

[NickyNewark]

I have a difference of opinion. Yes. Delany would like UVA and UNC to join the Big Ten. However, I do not think Rutgers and Maryland were fall back options. Rather, Rutgers and Maryland have been on the Big Ten radar for some time and were the next step in Big Ten expansion.

The ACC homers are butthurt...esp the local outliers in the ACC who fell off the national scene in recent years for the most part!! I've been basically saying the same thing for 3 or 4 years from just local rumbling's and reading between the lines. Worst kept secret IMO.

 

[kyleslamb]

The ACC homers are butthurt...esp the local outliers in the ACC who fell off the national scene in recent years for the most part!! I've been basically saying the same thing for 3 or 4 years from just local rumbling's and reading between the lines. Worst kept secret IMO.

I think this makes you an ACC Jihadist!

 

[whaler11]

I must really have struck a nerve!

Speaking on behalf of the ordinary people everywhere, what prerequisites are needed to be friends with super important people? Does being a "blogger" disqualify me; that I once worked in the cellular industry too; or is it the harmless meme I have as my Twitter profile pic?

Please educate me on class warfare so I can be moved from the little kids' table at the social gatherings. It makes for boring conversations. You do venom really well, though. In your zeal to thoroughly undress me, you're on a warpath taking shots at everyone in sight. Impressive diatribe, I must say.

I'll share a few thoughts with you - even though you attacked me personally in this thread I've been pretty gentle.

A: If you are an 'ordinary person' and are friends with 'super important' people... don't run to an internet message board and share what they've told you.

B: If you want to play the 'journalist' card... be an actual journalist. Not a blogger for an Ohio State fan site. Google 'journalism', I imagine you'll quickly learn blogging for a fan site is not journalism. Generally 'journalists' don't pimp organizations and have 'harmless' memes as their avatars.

C: Can't help you with getting to the adult table. You are well spoken and can craft an argument - but pretending to be a connected journalist? I guess I'd suggest not pretending to be something you aren't and see where it goes from there.

 

[sportsart]

I must really have struck a nerve!

Speaking on behalf of the ordinary people everywhere, what prerequisites are needed to be friends with super important people? Does being a "blogger" disqualify me; that I once worked in the cellular industry too; or is it the harmless meme I have as my Twitter profile pic?

Please educate me on class warfare so I can be moved from the little kids' table at the social gatherings. It makes for boring conversations. You do venom really well, though. In your zeal to thoroughly undress me, you're on a warpath taking shots at everyone in sight. Impressive diatribe, I must say.

I have your buddy Whaler on ignore for the very reason you are finding out. No one is more important than he is....you know why?

He proudly let it be known his household income is $400,000. No joke. Glad to see others still get to experience his wonderfulness. Back to ignore.

 

[whaler11]

Why hilarious? I liked it because you were ripping him for not being a journalist and he pointed out that for six years he had been. I thought it was funny. You can be pretty opinionated and I didn't mind seeing you be incorrect. I'm sure you'll have a witty reply.

I'll be honest I confused you and SDHusky for a second. And I like him too was just having some fun.

He wasn't really a journalist. Unless the word has been redefined.

 

[Stray_Dog]

That this nonsense gets likes from UConn fans is pretty funny. It's another guy calling the Big 10 'us' who loves an Ohio State blogger.

Hey Drimple... he isn't claiming he is posting his opinion he claims he is posting inside information.

It's not surprising big talkers like Drimple would frown on monetary wagers because they have big mouths and no way to back them up - so they try to pretend that 'adults' don't make wagers. The problem with that stance is the entire American economy is predicated on Americans making wagers. It's called the stock market.

WOW, actually, the guys who make the money on Wall street, don't wager at all, they trade, and they charge you for each trade weather you are buying or selling. Then when you sell they convince you to reinvest your money. The clowns who buy to invest, without research, etc they are wagering! If it is too good to be true, it probably is. But so far, in this entire exchange, I have read your opinion and his opinion. Guess what, they are real possibilities until they are not. So, between all those people with their proposed opinions, guess who is winning, FISHY! <- and he's my source so blah blah blah!

 

[NickyNewark]

I think this makes you an ACC Jihadist!

And this thread and the BY CR board are why I learn and derive so much pleasure here !! The Boneyard is the best of the NE boards IMHO.We get lots of interesting national views and posters here and its to there credit that only "boneheads" get banned here! Truly a democratic board unlike many in the northeast.

 

[whaler11]

I have your buddy Whaler on ignore for the very reason you are finding out. No one is more important than he is....you know why?

He proudly let it be known his household income is $400,000. No joke. Glad to see others still get to experience his wonderfulness. Back to ignore.

Good old Art. Knew he'd show in the end and always with his same biting comments.

Don't you need to go remind everyone to say nothing mean about players because their parents might see?

 

[NickyNewark]

I have your buddy Whaler on ignore for the very reason you are finding out. No one is more important than he is....you know why?

He proudly let it be known his household income is $400,000. No joke. Glad to see others still get to experience his wonderfulness. Back to ignore.

I've had Whaler on ignore forever and 2 years ago i took him off for 1 post!! Then I realized why I originally put him there....its been bliss until i saw ur comment I almost forgot about him!! I can still sense his presense trying to intimidate everyone to his way of thinking...oh the bliss!!