I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[Dooley]

I thought it was already clearly stated that this loudmouth would get canned if he kept these oddly negative posts about the BIG consistent.

Just stop, please. It's not worth it.

We all get certain ND fans dislike for the BIG. Move on.

ND to the BIG nearly happened at one point - but the ship has sailed now. I've never lost sleep over it because ND football is so tragically overrated & they can't beat a Michigan team, most years, that has been down since Carr left.

I also think those predicting the ACC's demise are overstating, but I get it from a BigEast perspective - the ACC was clearly the most predatory conference the past 20 years. The ACC is a necessary conference at this point - the Southeast portion of it needs to keep the SEC in check (once and very long while in football - it happened this year: FSU) & continue to front as an academic powerhouse conference via the only rankings that matter - US News Undergraduate Schools - I'm being cheeky here for I think the graduate metrics, across the board, clearly show the BIG far ahead of the ACC, esp in really world application, power brokers and patents. There are definitely some fine undergraduate schools in the ACC, which is expected, a lot of private institutions in that conference -super costly tuition.

Really, as a BIG fan, I would be quite content at 16 with UConn and not an eastern school, but KU. KU is currently going through an overhaul to become a very selective school and plenty of investment in research & graduate schools. I'm down with that. KC's a great spot to host the BIG Men's Basketball tourney every few years as well.

The football powers in the BIG will inevitably cycle up and be very good at the same time in the future. For many years PSU, Mi & OSU were strong. Now that Neb is in the league and MSU & Wisky have proven to be consistent top 15 teams - the football side will recover. Horrible things happened at PSU, Mi was due for a down cycle because their consistency was beyond impressive - no program has every pulled off Mi's long-term consistency. OSU clearly had scandal with Tressel. Neb is still a work in progress, but they're getting there & one thing many football fans seem to forget - Neb as been one of the 3 best programs since the early 70s - more NCs than any current BIG team, as many as Miami & Bama - same time frame.

More than anything, I want BIG basketball dominance - this happens with UConn and KU.

Agree, GFunk. If there is a split, hoops becomes every bit as important as football. The B1G (and PAC) are trying to level the football playing field through academics. Brilliant. Time to decide: are we watching college football or amateur football? While that battle rages on, locking up basketball elites takes more bullets out of the NCAA's chamber.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Joe, I don't know for certain what the "BUG" is and all I can reasonably deduce is that it's some for of B1G disparagement. If that's the case, save it for the ND boards where it might earn you a few chortles. We're concerned for our future here and the B1G looks like a real good landing strip to us. I think you'll find (some of us at least) more amenable to cordial discussion if you use some discretion. If I'm wrong about "BUG" let me know. I'm not particularly fond of being ignorant.

I could buy season tickets to the North Dakota Crew Team before a penny of my support would go to help that conference. They tried to have regular fans to do their branding for them with a catchy misspelling and I made an appropriate adjustment.

But its not just what Fielding Yost said about Catholics 100 years ago, they have been a net negative for everyone. It's a banal truth that no one has has success with Beeonegee membership.

Not Illinois.
Not Michigan State.
Not Penn State.
Not Nebraska.

Do you really think UCONN will be different? If you sell your basketball and NY success to them, you'll be relegated under the rule of Michigan and Ohio. If the money is worth it to you then I won't argue further as long as you know what you are bargaining for.

dusts off hands Sermonizing is easy, let's look an example.

As far as surrounding PSU with semi-traditional rivals, what's your point. You actually believe that PSU would jump to the ACC because ND is now a partial member?
.

Who believes that?

and after the Atlantic Coast Conference added the University of Notre Dame (the school’s football program remained independent) and the University of Pittsburgh — both schools within the Big Ten’s geographic footprint — Mr. Delany concluded that the Big Ten was in danger of ceding strategic ground. “We felt threatened,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/business/the-big-tens-bigger-footprint.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

For CR enthusiasts debating Maryland vs Virginia, the article will help explain Delaney's strategy. He has a few specific goals.

 

[TerryD]

BUG is a silly and seemingly idiotic disparaging term used by many ND fans for the Big Ten, because they don't like the Big Ten, even though ND has traditionally played teams from the Big Ten. Michigan is especially disparaged because of something that happened eons ago, even though ND started playing Michigan again when they had no need to. Go figure. And now the "BUG" apparently plants presidents into schools they wish to add.

Yes, it is as dumb and juvenile as the "Notre Lame", "Notre Dumb" , "Neuter Dumb", "Notre Shame" and other such "idiotic, disparaging terms" used by Big Ten and other fans when discussing ND.

Those terms should never be used by adults (or anyone over 14) on any sports message board. All are equally immature.

Note that I never use such a term, although I always state "Big Ten" instead of that recent "B1G" attempt at rebranding by that conference. Likewise, I never call that school in Los Angeles by the name "USC". I always use the traditional "Southern Cal", but I never use some sort of disparaging moniker when discussing schools/conferences.

 

[billybud]

Jim Delaney on Nov. 19, 2012 in response to taking Maryland (and presumably Rutgers which came a few days later)...

"We said, how do we participate in the new paradigm? Our answer was let's look at contiguous states first, let's look at AAU members first, and let's figure out if there is a way to continue to bridge from Penn State into the Mid-Atlantic. Is there a way to collaborate with like institutions, to grow our footprint, to compete and to position ourselves for the future? We determined this is the best way to accomplish those ends."

....He would say that...not..."I'm worried about ACC expansion". Since you like Delaney quotes...he also said in April 2013 that the GOR of the ACC cemented the Big Ten line up...I guess you pick and choose what quote fits your narrative..



"The ACC’s new grant of rights television deal—tying all 14 teams and Notre Dame into a long-term revenue sharing contract—has leveled off further realignment. Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, whose conference presidents have been “evaluating” the conference landscape, said Tuesday further Big Ten expansion is unlikely.

“Given everything that has gone on, yes,” Delany said when asked about the ACC’s deal cementing the current five major conferences to their respective lineups.

Or this Alavarez quote...

Speaking Friday to Wisconsin's athletic board, Alvarez said the Big Ten's recent additions of Maryland and Rutgers were motivated in part by the concern of losing Penn State to another conference. Alvarez didn't specify which league, but everyone knows it's the ACC.

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
"Jim [Delany] felt that someday, if we didn’t have anyone else in that corridor, someday it wouldn't make sense maybe for Penn State to be in our league. That they would go into a league somewhere on the east coast. By doing that, it keeps us in the northeast corridor."

 

[billybud]

The taking of Maryland was a pure reaction to the ACC addition of Notre Dame.....Maryland and Rutgers were a couple of pawns moved in to protect a more important piece on the board.

 

[XOVERX]

Mind you, this is some speculative stuff and it's over 4 years old now, but Frank the Tank had a commenter that had some "industry information" created a valuation chart for the potential 12th (and 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th) team. Here's the link to the post.

I guess I missed this post on FtT back in the day. I caught the one where FtT did his Top 10, with Texas on top, but the one you cite with the [speculative] valuations is quite interesting.

I think everyone accepts Texas would be a top 4 money-maker. What's fascinating to me is that with his next three picks, Delany chose #3 Nebraska, #2 Rutgers, and #4 Maryland.

This could be mere coincidence. Or ... FtT may be onto something with the information from his poster.

Also, I thought, foolishly, that the BTN was all about carriage fees. But this FtT article belies that notion. Only 40% of revenue arises from carriage with 60% arising from advertising. When you think about it, that makes some sense.

I had no idea that BC was ranked so highly. I don't think this is good news for UConn because, ideally, if I'm Delany, I want to cap off the northern end of the NE Corridor in Massachusetts, and, more specifically, in Boston.

OTOH, UConn is not subject to some pesky GOR. A league of 18 is viable. Given the potentially high ranking of BC (and Syracuse), I think UConn's best play for the B1G is to pull for western expansion first, through Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, and now the B1G needs #18. UConn. Plus, the B12 GOR expires before the ACC GOR expires so a western expansion, if it's going to happen at all, by raiding the B12, would arise prior to a potential ACC raid.

I don't think an ACC raid, given the potentially high ranking of BC, is in UConn's best interest at all. At least not with respect to obtaining invitation from the B1G. An ACC invitation for UConn could always happen, though, depending on how big the ACC is willing to grow.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

If I were Swofford, I wouldn't waste all my energy worrying about what Delany might do. There are two behemoths sitting at 14 teams each. If there is a push to 16, both will be licking their chops over Virginia and/or North Carolina. Somebody in the ACC's gonna blink and it's going to be mighty tough holding back the stampede once that happens. We were the Big East; we know how it works when prettier women ask you to dance.

In a 4 team college football playoff (hopefully expanded to 8 in het near future), having 4 power conferences is logical. The PAC is protected because of location. The SEC because of it's football strength and culture. The B1G is protected because of endowments and academics. Thus, it's between the ACC and the XII to see who blinks first. Will it be Texas or UNC/UVA? I honestly believe it will be the XII as that conference is more unstable due to the role that Texas plays and the ACC offers a larger market (DC to FL versus TX); but the ACC has that cancer of conferences called ND (just ask the old Big E). Time will tell.

 

[Fishy]

No, it is all about carriage - get on more television sets, get more revenue.

That is kind of a Frank the Tankian slant, though.

Throw a line item in there "UConn with NYC" and you have a $60M+ entry....but Frank et al is unaware that Connecticut and New York are neighboring states.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The taking of Maryland was a pure reaction to the ACC addition of Notre Dame.....Maryland and Rutgers were a couple of pawns moved in to protect a more important piece on the board.

I agree. I believe that there has been mutual interest between the B1G and Rutgers for some time, after all, B1G alumni have been flocking to the NYC metro area for generations, more so after the decline of heavy industry in the Midwest. Rutgers also has a natural rivalry with Penn State, especially for students. I think the B1G was also thinking of the DC market and that Maryland would be a nice add; but, it was not on the radar until Maryland's financial mess and change of administration basically gift wrapped the Terps for the B1G.

 

[NickyNewark]

I agree. I believe that there has been mutual interest between the B1G and Rutgers for some time, after all, B1G alumni have been flocking to the NYC metro area for generations, more so after the decline of heavy industry in the Midwest. Rutgers also has a natural rivalry with Penn State, especially for students. I think the B1G was also thinking of the DC market and that Maryland would be a nice add; but, it was not on the radar until Maryland's financial mess and change of administration basically gift wrapped the Terps for the B1G.

Coney, as usual you are right on time for those unfamiliar with NE interconference and school politic's locally. I can always count on you to keep things real.

 

[Seaa Blue]

But its not just what Fielding Yost said about Catholics 100 years ago, they have been a net negative for everyone. It's a banal truth that no one has has success with Beeonegee membership.

Let it go Joe. Let it go.

Just one more loss to endure... .

 

[Kolumbo]

In a 4 team college football playoff (hopefully expanded to 8 in het near future), having 4 power conferences is logical. The PAC is protected because of location. The SEC because of it's football strength and culture. The B1G is protected because of endowments and academics. Thus, it's between the ACC and the XII to see who blinks first. Will it be Texas or UNC/UVA? I honestly believe it will be the XII as that conference is more unstable due to the role that Texas plays and the ACC offers a larger market (DC to FL versus TX); but the ACC has that cancer of conferences called ND (just ask the old Big E). Time will tell.

Just to play devil's advocate, and draw some fire, we all know the PAC is protected. But what if the Big 12, needing to add 6, somehow convinced USC and a few others to jump. The PAC then gets carved up and sent to the Big 12, SEC, and BIG. The Pacific Time zone screws everything up anyway and this would help reduce the number of games out there.
Stanford and Oregon or Washington to the B1G.
UCLA, USC, AZ, Utah, Cal, Oregon State to the Big 12
AZ State and Colorado to the SEC.

 

[upstater]

Just to play devil's advocate, and draw some fire, we all know the PAC is protected. But what if the Big 12, needing to add 6, somehow convinced USC and a few others to jump. The PAC then gets carved up and sent to the Big 12, SEC, and BIG. The Pacific Time zone screws everything up anyway and this would help reduce the number of games out there.
Stanford and Oregon or Washington to the B1G.
UCLA, USC, AZ, Utah, Cal, Oregon State to the Big 12
AZ State and Colorado to the SEC.

Every other scenario imagined so far has more probability than this. Never forget that Larry Scott was actually in favor of Oklahoma and Texas joining, before the Pac12 presidents told him, "No way."

 

[WestHartHusk]

Just to play devil's advocate, and draw some fire, we all know the PAC is protected. But what if the Big 12, needing to add 6, somehow convinced USC and a few others to jump. The PAC then gets carved up and sent to the Big 12, SEC, and BIG. The Pacific Time zone screws everything up anyway and this would help reduce the number of games out there.
Stanford and Oregon or Washington to the B1G.
UCLA, USC, AZ, Utah, Cal, Oregon State to the Big 12
AZ State and Colorado to the SEC.

Congratulations. You just created the most implausible scenario in all of conference realignment.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Same offer to everyone else with opinions - worthless without backing them up. Let me know your stakes and your call - otherwise it's hot air.

An expectation that the phrase "Wanna bet?" settles anything is immature.

 

[whaler11]

An expectation that the phrase "Wanna bet?" settles anything is immature.

It's not really. If you feel so strongly and are so confident then back it up.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

It's not really. If you feel so strongly and are so confident then back it up.

Wow! What was I thinking? You're right, of course. Why do we even have civil courts? Simply get the parties together and have them place their wagers. The one that backs down first loses because, obviously, whichever is most committed to its position Las Vegas style must be right. It is I who needs to reclaim a chair at the kids table on Thanksgiving.

 

[whaler11]

Wow! What was I thinking? You're right, of course. Why do we even have civil courts? Simply get the parties together and have them place their wagers. The one that backs down first loses because, obviously, whichever is most committed to its position Las Vegas style must be right. It is I who needs to reclaim a chair at the kids table on Thanksgiving.

Oh yes message board debates are often settled in court. Your last line is correct based on nonsense like this.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Oh yes message board debates are often settled in court. Your last line is correct based on nonsense like this.

Wanna bet?

 

[dayooper]

Also, I thought, foolishly, that the BTN was all about carriage fees. But this FtT article belies that notion. Only 40% of revenue arises from carriage with 60% arising from advertising. When you think about it, that makes some sense.

This part is off, way off. I believe it's somewhere near 90% carriage fees AND I do believe they get some rights fees as well (Fox paying them a set amount for their rights). Those might be gone once The BTN began making profits, though.

 

[dayooper]

Yes, it is as dumb and juvenile as the "Notre Lame", "Notre Dumb" , "Neuter Dumb", "Notre Shame" and other such "idiotic, disparaging terms" used by Big Ten and other fans when discussing ND.

Those terms should never be used by adults (or anyone over 14) on any sports message board. All are equally immature.

Note that I never use such a term, although I always state "Big Ten" instead of that recent "B1G" attempt at rebranding by that conference. Likewise, I never call that school in Los Angeles by the name "USC". I always use the traditional "Southern Cal", but I never use some sort of disparaging moniker when discussing schools/conferences.

That's why you are a great poster. I don't always agree with what you say, but you express your opinions in such a way that it adds to the conversation.

 

[Seaa Blue]

This part is off, way off. I believe it's somewhere near 90% carriage fees AND I do believe they get some rights fees as well (Fox paying them a set amount for their rights). Those might be gone once The BTN began making profits, though.

I've seen figures on both ends of the spectrum. There's the 90% advertising figure, then there's the 40%. I think a lot of if is accounting funny money, how it's reported, and when the figure was reported.

I haven't been following H1 lately, but he once stated that the advertising money is really coming on strong.

@kyleslamb -- would you agree?

 

[dayooper]

Who believes that?

and after the Atlantic Coast Conference added the University of Notre Dame (the school’s football program remained independent) and the University of Pittsburgh — both schools within the Big Ten’s geographic footprint — Mr. Delany concluded that the Big Ten was in danger of ceding strategic ground. “We felt threatened,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/business/the-big-tens-bigger-footprint.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

For CR enthusiasts debating Maryland vs Virginia, the article will help explain Delaney's strategy. He has a few specific goals.

They why bring it up? Why call the "semi-rivals?" It brings nothing to the conversation. Why didn't you say that The ACC took three potential candidates? That would have made your point much clearer. Yet you had to get your little dig. That's why you trolled and put the "inside man" comment in at the end. Funny that the bickering starts as soon as you come back to the board. Coincidence? I think not.

As far as being reactionary, The ACC and The Big10 are in a battle for the NE. Was the timeline accelerated when The ACC took Pitt, 'Cuse, and ND? I have no doubt. They lost ground and potentially lost a candidate in NY. I also believe that Rutgers and UMD were targets well before any those schools were added, dating back to 2009.

 

[whaler11]

The ad revenues are minimal and the bulk come from football Saturdays. Thats been clearly reported.

 

[Dooley]

No, it is all about carriage - get on more television sets, get more revenue.

That is kind of a Frank the Tankian slant, though.

Throw a line item in there "UConn with NYC" and you have a $60M+ entry....but Frank et al is unaware that Connecticut and New York are neighboring states.

It really does baffle me how 99% of the Twitterati don't realize that 1/3 of the coveted NYC DMA is located in CT. A large number of them, UCONN fans/alumni.