I feel bad for AG and CV

[DaveHuskiesFan]

Could've fooled me

Nah I just don’t stand for slander of players that don’t deserve it. Watch the games and focus on more than 3 poor shots over the course of the game. You might be surprised.

 

[navery12]

Nah I just don’t stand for slander of players that don’t deserve it. Watch the games and focus on more than 3 poor shots over the course of the game. You might be surprised.

I'm not saying he's a bad player or the sole reason we lost. He brings more positive than negative but you can't just ignore all the negative. Maybe it's not fair but I expect more from him as a senior. He played 39 minutes of good basketball and then biggest possession of the game he takes a bad shot and it's a 4 or 5 point swing, I expect more from him than that

 

[browndog319]

Vital isn’t close defensively to AG you’re dreaming. His steals come from not guarding his guy well. Listen they’ve both been pretty awful to say one is more valuable than the other is just who you like. Neither deserve praise.

He rebounds, though. He leads the team in rebounds which is critical.
Anyone who points to AG’s FTs is missing the fact that he was on the court longer than anyone and held onto the ball... of course he had more FTs. And he’d better hit them.

 

[browndog319]

Nah I just don’t stand for slander of players that don’t deserve it. Watch the games and focus on more than 3 poor shots over the course of the game. You might be surprised.

THIS! And when CV finds his 3 point shot, it’s going to be amazing. How many times were those clutch in previous years?

 

[ctchamps]

Nah I just don’t stand for slander of players that don’t deserve it. Watch the games and focus on more than 3 poor shots over the course of the game. You might be surprised.

I've thrown up the play by plays and did not receive one response from the two people I offered evidence that supports your contention. Christian's one major limitation is he can't effectively drive to the basket and score. If his three point shot is off he's a negative on offense.

He more than makes up for it on defense. Even when he's not stealing the ball or rebounding he (and Alterique) are so disruptive on defense they throw the other team off their offensive sets and rhythms.

There will always be fans that will scapegoat. Once they isolate a player or coach as the reason for causing them misery they'll persist with it. When a group persists with the same emotional negativity the inertia is too strong to reason against.

This game was not lost by Hurley or AG or CV.

The far more important factors were:
. The injury to Akok removing him from the game after the first period.
. The back spasms Brendan played through but with significantly reduced effectiveness.
. The fifth foul on Josh that eliminated a lot of plays the team could run on offense and necessitated Hurley playing Sid more than ideal on offense because he was needed for defense. The double down by Sid and Tyler along with the active hands of Christian stopped Tyrique Jones.
. The three game suspension on Bouk which resulted in a lack of game playing time before this game probably was the reason for those two sloppy fouls he had early in the game. He has good lateral footwork and should make the adjustment with his defense. He needs to adjust to the speed of players at the college level.
. CV not having his 3pt shot necessitating Al to do more once Josh picked up his fifth, Bouk his fourth, Sid needing to play, and Xavier overplaying Tyler.
. Jalen not being ready at this stage to play meaningful minutes in this game. He'll have an up and down freshman season but I believe he'll contribute more than Brendan did his freshman year.
. An ineligible player.
. One missing scholarship.

 

[superjohn]

I've thrown up the play by plays and did not receive one response from the two people I offered evidence that supports your contention. Christian's one major limitation is he can't effectively drive to the basket and score. If his three point shot is off he's a negative on offense.

He more than makes up for it on defense. Even when he's not stealing the ball or rebounding he (and Alterique) are so disruptive on defense they throw the other team off their offensive sets and rhythms.

There will always be fans that will scapegoat. Once they isolate a player or coach as the reason for causing them misery they'll persist with it. When a group persists with the same emotional negativity the inertia is too strong to reason against.

This game was not lost by Hurley or AG or CV.

The far more important factors were:
The injury to Akok removing him from the game after the first period.
The back spasms Brendan played through but with significantly reduced effectiveness.
The fifth foul on Josh that eliminated a lot of plays the team could run on offense and necessitated Hurley playing Sid more than ideal on offense because he was needed for defense. The double down by Sid and Tyler along with the active hands of Christian stopped Tyrique Jones.
The three game suspension on Bouk which resulted in a lack of game playing time before this game probably was the reason for those two sloppy fouls he had early in the game. He has good lateral footwork and should make the adjustment with his defense. He needs to adjust to the speed of players at the college level.
CV not having his 3pt shot necessitating Al to do more once Josh picked up his fifth, Bouk his fourth, Sid needing to play, and Xavier overplaying Tyler.
Jalen not be ready at this stage to play meaningful minutes in this game. He'll have an up and down freshman season but I believe he'll contribute more than Brendan did his freshman year.
An ineligible player.
One missing scholarship.

The game was lost by Gilbert and Vital doing the same dumb hero ball we've seen in the past. It's so unfortunate because if they would cut this out they and the team could be really good.

 

[HoopsHype34]

Youre right, his two steals, two free throws, and an offensive rebound in a 45 second span in the second overtime were losing plays. But you’re right. One bad shot with 50 seconds left completely outweighs everything else he did.

Considering if he doesn't take that bad shot we probably win in regulation. So yeah, it actually matters.

 

[ctchamps]

The game was lost by Gilbert and Vital doing the same dumb hero ball we've seen in the past. It's so unfortunate because if they would cut this out they and the team could be really good.

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

 

[ctchamps]

Considering if he doesn't take that bad shot we probably win in regulation. So yeah, it actually matters.

Of course it matters. But the overwhelming posts in this thread do not consider the positives he contributed that would have more than resulted in a loss if he did not make them.

 

[browndog319]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

I didn’t know Brendan Adams had back spasms. Pretty impressive that he played through it but yeah, that would make range of motion and good shooting impossible. Hopefully that’s a non-issue today.
Thanks for sharing that.

 

[superjohn]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

I know you did and then you made a bunch of excuses for why Gilbert and Vital made dumb hero ball plays. It's not at all unsubstantiated, if you keep driving in to take wild layups from your hip you're going to keep getting blocked and giving the other team possession, if you take wild 3 pointers off the dribble with a hand in your face it's usually going to lead to a 5 point swing...It is what it is, we lost the game when they went into dumb hero ball mode. Hurley needs to clean it up with them or there will be more games like Xavier where we wrestle away a win and turn it into a loss.

 

[navery12]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated

And yet that 1 shot he took the entire time still managed to be the worst one

 

[browndog319]

Here are the last five minutes of regulation with the exception of the last nineteen seconds in which Hurley drew a play up for Al where he missed a jumper with one second to go. Outside of a missed three pointer with 52 seconds remaining in regulation what other plays or decisions did CV make that cost UConn the game.


View attachment 48507

This is helpful. I think the frustration with AG comes from moments at the 2:25 where he has a GREAT def rebound and then misses the layup at the other end.
He KNOWS his offense has sucked the whole game. Why didn’t he get it to someone else. Carlton has made more than he has. CV has hit some. He had plenty of time on the clock. Plenty to run a play. He had zero reason to run down the floor and shoot. Sure you could argue where was the rebounding but Xavier did a good job on that. We did, too. Probability shows that:
A) AG was going to miss
B) Xavier was as likely to rebound AG’s missed shot as we were
C) there were other guys on the team who wouldn’t hit a shot 100% or 50% of the time, it would be higher than AG’s shooting percentage in that game

That is what you’re hearing when you hear frustration about AG. We are not sure that there aren’t others who could do what he does. We do know that there are others who can shoot. And the veteran status which should guarantee that your PG knows to pass that ball after the rebound doesn’t seem to exist.
Other guys rebound. Other guys hit FTs. Can other guys manage the game? Idk. But we do know AG isn’t managing the game. Is it skill or will? Idk. This is what the frustration is.
I also think we are too hard on CV - I would actually try him in this spot. I think he might be effective.

 

[ctchamps]

And yet that 1 shot he took the entire time still managed to be the worst one

Perhaps.
You certainly need to weigh that play as THE play that cost the game. That's a bias imo.

I'd say the pass Gilbert made to Josh who was alone in the paint and slow to dunk resulting in a block was pivitol. Or his missed bunny near the end of regulation after a great offensive rebound. I'd say Bouk reaching in getting his fifth foul was pivitol. There was no reason to make that play and he was put in for offense. I'd say all the drives to the basket resulting in blocks were pivitol. Perhaps taking a quick shot before the defense was set knowing there were no remaining good ones was what he was thinking. He makes that shot he's a hero. Obviously missing he's a goat.

 

[browndog319]

Perhaps.
You certainly need to weigh that play as THE play that cost the game. That's a bias imo.

I'd say the pass Gilbert made to Josh who was alone in the paint and slow to dunk resulting in a block was pivitol. Or his missed bunny near the end of regulation after a great offensive rebound. I'd say Bouk reaching in getting his fifth foul was pivitol. There was no reason to make that play and he was put in for offense. I'd say all the drives to the basket resulting in blocks were pivitol. Perhaps taking a quick shot before the defense was set knowing there were no remaining good ones was what he was thinking. He makes that shot he's a hero. Obviously missing he's a goat.

I would also say AG strolling down the court like he’s choosing donuts at the end of reg was pretty decisive. Sure, could that have been stolen by X. But you don’t take all the time on the clock and not get it to someone who can shoot. And when you’re not shooting well, you don’t take that shot... and Dan Hurley shouldn’t make him take that shot.

 

[superjohn]

Perhaps.
You certainly need to weigh that play as THE play that cost the game. That's a bias imo.

I'd say the pass Gilbert made to Josh who was alone in the paint and slow to dunk resulting in a block was pivitol. Or his missed bunny near the end of regulation after a great offensive rebound. I'd say Bouk reaching in getting his fifth foul was pivitol. There was no reason to make that play and he was put in for offense. I'd say all the drives to the basket resulting in blocks were pivitol. Perhaps taking a quick shot before the defense was set knowing there were no remaining good ones was what he was thinking. He makes that shot he's a hero. Obviously missing he's a goat.

Your last sentence says it all and it's why Christian took the shot. He desperately needs to get that hero mentality out of his head. It was an absolutely terrible shot and a 4-5 point swing. The percentages on Vital making an off the dribble contested long three and Gilbert making a layup from his hip over a defender are insanely low.

 

[ctchamps]

I know you did and then you made a bunch of excuses for why Gilbert and Vital made dumb hero ball plays. It's not at all unsubstantiated, if you keep driving in to take wild layups from your hip you're going to keep getting blocked and giving the other team possession, if you take wild 3 pointers off the dribble with a hand in your face it's usually going to lead to a 5 point swing...It is what it is, we lost the game when they went into dumb hero ball mode. Hurley needs to clean it up with them or there will be more games like Xavier where we wrestle away a win and turn it into a loss.

Why debate a different viewpoint by indicating I'm making excuses. I'm establishing the situation that existed at the end of regulation and the OT periods that you are not pointing out which necessitated those plays. I never said I liked those plays. I was at the game cringing every bit as much as you were when they took place.

All I'm saying is that there were no other options really available during this period you are upset with. It's easy to criticize and I don't want to take away your upset. I'm upset as well. But tell me what could have been done in those last fifteen minutes of the game (end of reg and 2 OTs) with the players who were remaining and the foul situation.

 

[ctchamps]

I would also say AG strolling down the court like he’s choosing donuts at the end of reg was pretty decisive. Sure, could that have been stolen by X. But you don’t take all the time on the clock and not get it to someone who can shoot. And when you’re not shooting well, you don’t take that shot... and Dan Hurley shouldn’t make him take that shot.

Your last sentence says it all and it's why Christian took the shot. He desperately needs to get that hero mentality out of his head. It was an absolutely terrible shot and a 4-5 point swing. The percentages on Vital making an off the dribble contested long three and Gilbert making a layup from his hip over a defender are insanely low.

Again what were the options. Akok not in the game because of injury. Adams playing with back spasms so he has no lift on his shot. Bouk with four fouls and Hurley has to manage his play. Josh and Whaley out with five. Jalen not ready to contribute in this game. Xavier recognized the situation and overplay Tyler. Sid has yet to show any ability to make shots.

You are pointing out the obvious. Driving to the basket was a proven failure. CV was cold in this game. Al was cold since the beginning of time. What do you want them to do? Dribble the ball at the top of the key until a turnover is called for shot clock violation.

I have no problem with your criticism. Anyone can back seat failure. Tell me what they could have done given the situation at the end of the game.

 

[superjohn]

Why debate a different viewpoint by indicating I'm making excuses. I'm establishing the situation that existed at the end of regulation and the OT periods that you are not pointing out which necessitated those plays. I never said I liked those plays. I was at the game cringing every bit as much as you were when they took place.

All I'm saying is that there were no other options really available during this period you are upset with. It's easy to criticize and I don't want to take away your upset. I'm upset as well. But tell me what could have been done in those last fifteen minutes of the game (end of reg and 2 OTs) with the players who were remaining and the foul situation.

They absolutely did not necessitate those plays. Nothing necessitates getting the ball with 13 seconds on the shotclock and hoisting up a long contested three off the dribble with a hand in your face and nothing necessitates trying to shoot wild layups over much bigger people than you when it's proven over and over you can't make them.

You're taking a really weird position here in trying to defend awful incredibly low percentage hero shots. To say there are no better options is crazy and it's my worry that Gilbert and Vital still think them taking wild hero ball shots is the best way to win. Hutley has to fix this with them or they need to sit.

 

[ctchamps]

They absolutely did not necessitate those plays. Nothing necessitates getting the ball with 13 seconds on the shotclock and hoisting up a long contested three off the dribble with a hand in your face and nothing necessitates trying to shoot wild layups over much bigger people than you when it's proven over and over you can't make them.

You're taking a really weird position here in trying to defend awful incredibly low percentage hero shots. To say there are no better options is crazy and it's my worry that Gilbert and Vital still think them taking wild hero ball shots is the best way to win. Hutley has to fix this with them or they need to sit.

You still are not offering plays they could have made with the people that were available at the critical junction of this game.

I'm not defending those plays by pointing out there were no other options that I could see. If you have them I'll reconsider.

 

[navery12]

Again what were the options. Akok not in the game because of injury. Adams playing with back spasms so he has no lift on his shot. Bouk with four fouls and Hurley has to manage his play. Josh and Whaley out with five. Jalen not ready to contribute in this game. Xavier recognized the situation and overplay Tyler. Sid has yet to show any ability to make shots.

You are pointing out the obvious. Driving to the basket was a proven failure. CV was cold in this game. Al was cold since the beginning of time. What do you want them to do? Dribble the ball at the top of the key until a turnover is called for shot clock violation.

I have no problem with your criticism. Anyone can back seat failure. Tell me what they could have done given the situation at the end of the game.

But it wasn't a quick 3 before the defense was set, I don't have a problem with those shots. It was a contested 3 with a defender in his face where he dribbled around the 3 point line for 7 seconds and then threw up a shot

 

[intlzncster]

THIS! And when CV finds his 3 point shot, it’s going to be amazing. How many times were those clutch in previous years?

CV finds his 3 point shot all the time. And then loses it again.

He's streaky. That's who he is.

And he's never seen a heat check he didn't like.

 

[mauconnfan]

I would also say AG strolling down the court like he’s choosing donuts at the end of reg was pretty decisive. Sure, could that have been stolen by X. But you don’t take all the time on the clock and not get it to someone who can shoot. And when you’re not shooting well, you don’t take that shot... and Dan Hurley shouldn’t make him take that shot.

Make some sense on occasion please. He was asked to take the last shot did you watch the last play in regulation? No one even moved from their spread spots and honestly you should be sure to at least get to OT and not leave time on the clock for X. Your attempt to make CVs value more impactful than AGs is funny. They both blew and were part of the reason we didn’t win the game period. Moral victories by rebounding congrats on that your favorite guy still is 3-2 also.

Vital “fans” are becoming irritating. They both suck we need better from each of our senior guards. We’re all hoping to see Ws and hope all of our guys play well so I hope CV goes 8-11 today with 11 boards and we win. I’m thinking a fan like you will be disappointed to see AG play well like we know he can.

 

[superjohn]

You still are not offering plays they could have made with the people that were available at the critical junction of this game.

Anything is better. Pass the ball, drive and kick, screen for your shooters, don't wait until there is no time left on the final play. Give it to your best player for the final play, the one who can actually take his man off the dribble and score.

You're advocating for them to make the worst basketball plays, the lowest percentage plays because you don't trust any of their teammates. That is the biggest problem right now and I'm scared that's the way Gilbert and Vital think. It's why we lost the game and the success as a team this year will be Hurley getting AG and Christian to cut this stuff out.

 

[ctchamps]

But it wasn't a quick 3 before the defense was set, I don't have a problem with those shots. It was a contested 3 with a defender in his face where he dribbled around the 3 point line for 7 seconds and then threw up a shot

I stand corrected. TY.

It still is a rational play even if I screamed loudly (I was in the stands from where he took that shot) WHY? The worse option would have been to hold the ball till the end of the shot clock and not have a two for one option at the end of the second OT. I just don't see any other options for scoring when Bouk wasn't on the court during this part of the game. Furthermore it was a play that was drawn up by Hurley after the timeout. Again his options were limited if Bouknight was not in the game and I feel strongly Hurley was focusing on defense to win the game at the end of regulation. We were up three.

To focus on one play for the loss is scapegoating imo.

 

[superjohn]

I stand corrected. TY.

It still is a rational play even if I screamed loudly (I was in the stands from where he took that shot) WHY? The worse option would have been to hold the ball till the end of the shot clock and not have a two for one option at the end of the second OT. I just don't see any other options for scoring when Bouk wasn't on the court during this part of the game. Furthermore it was a play that was drawn up by Hurley after the timeout. Again his options were limited if Bouknight was not in the game and I feel strongly Hurley was focusing on defense to win the game at the end of regulation. We were up three.

To focus on one play for the loss is scapegoating imo.

If you think Hurley drew up a play fot Vital to dribble around the three point line and then take a contested pull up three with a hand in his face I don't know what to tell you.

 

[ctchamps]

Anything is better. Pass the ball, drive and kick, screen for your shooters, don't wait until there is no time left on the final play. Give it to your best player for the final play, the one who can actually take his man off the dribble and score.

You're advocating for them to make the worst basketball plays, the lowest percentage plays because you don't trust any of their teammates. That is the biggest problem right now and I'm scared that's the way Gilbert and Vital think. It's why we lost the game and the success as a team this year will be Hurley getting AG and Christian to cut this stuff out.

Pass to whom? Who screens? Who is your best player? It's definitely Bouknight but up three at the end of regulation with 50 seconds remaining your primary focus as a coach has to be defense. So you can't put Bouknight in at that moment based on the defense you observed from him earlier in the game even if he's the best offensive option by far because defense has a better probability of resulting in the win than any offensive opportunity. So without Bouk there were no good options. You roll the dice which bad offensive play you make.

 

[ctchamps]

If you think Hurley drew up a play fot Vital to dribble around the three point line and then take a contested pull up three with a hand in his face I don't know what to tell you.

And you know this how? He set up the first couple of plays in the Buffalo game for an alley to Akok. Al carried it out even though the play wasn't there. He should have called an audible but that's not how these kids are dealing with the plays Hurley calls for them. Same with the timeouts and trying to get the ball to Josh when they shouldn't because he's being doubled.

This is early in the season. The team has made immense progress and you yourself have indicated several times it won't be until next year when we'll really see what Dan can do when he has all his players. Right now he doesn't have the confidence for them to make audibles so he's calling the plays after time outs. I expect that to change as the season progresses.

 

[coachn]

I am the most die hard UCONN Fan and am devastated over the loss.
We have a good coach and I trust He,CV and AG will figure it out.
The new guys are great but have to be worked into the rotation. This team will be great sooner than later.
Hopefully that will happen quick like today vs Miami.

 

[Hurleyman216]

CV had one of his worst shooting games as a husky and we took a top 20 team down to the wire and would have won if it weren’t for a guy hitting a 32 footer with a guy in his face. The future is bright in Storrs