I feel bad for AG and CV

[huskyinfl]

Taliek is on the staff so it should be easy.

 

[uconngb]

Don't feel bad for these young men. The are learning valuable life lessons that will suit them later in life. Things about team work and having to overcome difficult situations. Not every athlete will move on to the NBA, and I'm not saying that they don't have the ability to play at the next level, just saying that life is bigger than the game. At some point you just have to realize what you got to do and I hope they figure that out on the court and in life.

I’ll say it. They don’t have the talent to play in the NBA. And it’s not even close.

 

[uconngb]

He made losing plays at winning time. What else matters??

 

[Kenny11]

We need AG and CV and they need to play confidently. There are also some mistakes like vital taking step back contested 3’s off the dribble or AG getting stuck under the rim that can’t be tolerated. They need to know if they do those things they are getting subbed out.

 

[Waquoit]

We need AG and CV and they need to play confidently.

All the bricks these guys put up tells me they aren't lacking for confidence.

 

[ctchamps]

We prob win in regulation if he isn’t in the game at the end against Xavier. His late game decisions helped to cost us the game

Here are the last five minutes of regulation with the exception of the last nineteen seconds in which Hurley drew a play up for Al where he missed a jumper with one second to go. Outside of a missed three pointer with 52 seconds remaining in regulation what other plays or decisions did CV make that cost UConn the game.

 

[ctchamps]

He made losing plays at winning time. What else matters??

Some accuracy in what took place and less emotional hyperbole by fans.

This is the second over time. Hurley sits CV at the start so I'm showing what took place in this period when he was subbed in.

 

[Kenny11]

All the bricks these guys put up tells me they aren't lacking for confidence.

Vital is one of the most confident basketball players of all time. I’m in awe of his self belief. He’s going to have a very successful life.

 

[navery12]

Could've fooled me

 

[navery12]

I'm not saying he's a bad player or the sole reason we lost. He brings more positive than negative but you can't just ignore all the negative. Maybe it's not fair but I expect more from him as a senior. He played 39 minutes of good basketball and then biggest possession of the game he takes a bad shot and it's a 4 or 5 point swing, I expect more from him than that

 

[browndog319]

Vital isn’t close defensively to AG you’re dreaming. His steals come from not guarding his guy well. Listen they’ve both been pretty awful to say one is more valuable than the other is just who you like. Neither deserve praise.

He rebounds, though. He leads the team in rebounds which is critical.
Anyone who points to AG’s FTs is missing the fact that he was on the court longer than anyone and held onto the ball... of course he had more FTs. And he’d better hit them.

 

[browndog319]

THIS! And when CV finds his 3 point shot, it’s going to be amazing. How many times were those clutch in previous years?

 

[ctchamps]

I've thrown up the play by plays and did not receive one response from the two people I offered evidence that supports your contention. Christian's one major limitation is he can't effectively drive to the basket and score. If his three point shot is off he's a negative on offense.

He more than makes up for it on defense. Even when he's not stealing the ball or rebounding he (and Alterique) are so disruptive on defense they throw the other team off their offensive sets and rhythms.

There will always be fans that will scapegoat. Once they isolate a player or coach as the reason for causing them misery they'll persist with it. When a group persists with the same emotional negativity the inertia is too strong to reason against.

This game was not lost by Hurley or AG or CV.

The far more important factors were:
. The injury to Akok removing him from the game after the first period.
. The back spasms Brendan played through but with significantly reduced effectiveness.
. The fifth foul on Josh that eliminated a lot of plays the team could run on offense and necessitated Hurley playing Sid more than ideal on offense because he was needed for defense. The double down by Sid and Tyler along with the active hands of Christian stopped Tyrique Jones.
. The three game suspension on Bouk which resulted in a lack of game playing time before this game probably was the reason for those two sloppy fouls he had early in the game. He has good lateral footwork and should make the adjustment with his defense. He needs to adjust to the speed of players at the college level.
. CV not having his 3pt shot necessitating Al to do more once Josh picked up his fifth, Bouk his fourth, Sid needing to play, and Xavier overplaying Tyler.
. Jalen not being ready at this stage to play meaningful minutes in this game. He'll have an up and down freshman season but I believe he'll contribute more than Brendan did his freshman year.
. An ineligible player.
. One missing scholarship.

 

[superjohn]

I've thrown up the play by plays and did not receive one response from the two people I offered evidence that supports your contention. Christian's one major limitation is he can't effectively drive to the basket and score. If his three point shot is off he's a negative on offense.

He more than makes up for it on defense. Even when he's not stealing the ball or rebounding he (and Alterique) are so disruptive on defense they throw the other team off their offensive sets and rhythms.

There will always be fans that will scapegoat. Once they isolate a player or coach as the reason for causing them misery they'll persist with it. When a group persists with the same emotional negativity the inertia is too strong to reason against.

This game was not lost by Hurley or AG or CV.

The far more important factors were:
The injury to Akok removing him from the game after the first period.
The back spasms Brendan played through but with significantly reduced effectiveness.
The fifth foul on Josh that eliminated a lot of plays the team could run on offense and necessitated Hurley playing Sid more than ideal on offense because he was needed for defense. The double down by Sid and Tyler along with the active hands of Christian stopped Tyrique Jones.
The three game suspension on Bouk which resulted in a lack of game playing time before this game probably was the reason for those two sloppy fouls he had early in the game. He has good lateral footwork and should make the adjustment with his defense. He needs to adjust to the speed of players at the college level.
CV not having his 3pt shot necessitating Al to do more once Josh picked up his fifth, Bouk his fourth, Sid needing to play, and Xavier overplaying Tyler.
Jalen not be ready at this stage to play meaningful minutes in this game. He'll have an up and down freshman season but I believe he'll contribute more than Brendan did his freshman year.
An ineligible player.
One missing scholarship.

The game was lost by Gilbert and Vital doing the same dumb hero ball we've seen in the past. It's so unfortunate because if they would cut this out they and the team could be really good.

 

[HoopsHype34]

Considering if he doesn't take that bad shot we probably win in regulation. So yeah, it actually matters.

 

[ctchamps]

The game was lost by Gilbert and Vital doing the same dumb hero ball we've seen in the past. It's so unfortunate because if they would cut this out they and the team could be really good.

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

 

[ctchamps]

Considering if he doesn't take that bad shot we probably win in regulation. So yeah, it actually matters.

Of course it matters. But the overwhelming posts in this thread do not consider the positives he contributed that would have more than resulted in a loss if he did not make them.

 

[browndog319]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

I didn’t know Brendan Adams had back spasms. Pretty impressive that he played through it but yeah, that would make range of motion and good shooting impossible. Hopefully that’s a non-issue today.
Thanks for sharing that.

 

[superjohn]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated.

The end of the game necessitated Hurley running plays because of the list I made. Once Josh fouled out the options were greatly limited. Once Bouk picked up his fourth foul same thing. Once Akok could not play same thing. Once Brendan developed back spasms same thing.

Christian was cold from three. He's a streak shooter. If any generalization can be made it is that he struggles to make them in big games. It demonstrates to me someone who lacks confidence. For all his toughness it might be a veneer for someone who isn't as confident as he demonstrates. That's a flaw in his personality. If I'm correct why should people be angry at him. It's just as easy for people to change their personality flaw and not take it out on others (players, coaches, fans) when they are hurt.

I know you did and then you made a bunch of excuses for why Gilbert and Vital made dumb hero ball plays. It's not at all unsubstantiated, if you keep driving in to take wild layups from your hip you're going to keep getting blocked and giving the other team possession, if you take wild 3 pointers off the dribble with a hand in your face it's usually going to lead to a 5 point swing...It is what it is, we lost the game when they went into dumb hero ball mode. Hurley needs to clean it up with them or there will be more games like Xavier where we wrestle away a win and turn it into a loss.

 

[navery12]

I posted in this thread the play by plays at the end of the game. Your generalization is unsubstantiated

And yet that 1 shot he took the entire time still managed to be the worst one

 

[browndog319]

Here are the last five minutes of regulation with the exception of the last nineteen seconds in which Hurley drew a play up for Al where he missed a jumper with one second to go. Outside of a missed three pointer with 52 seconds remaining in regulation what other plays or decisions did CV make that cost UConn the game.


View attachment 48507

This is helpful. I think the frustration with AG comes from moments at the 2:25 where he has a GREAT def rebound and then misses the layup at the other end.
He KNOWS his offense has sucked the whole game. Why didn’t he get it to someone else. Carlton has made more than he has. CV has hit some. He had plenty of time on the clock. Plenty to run a play. He had zero reason to run down the floor and shoot. Sure you could argue where was the rebounding but Xavier did a good job on that. We did, too. Probability shows that:
A) AG was going to miss
B) Xavier was as likely to rebound AG’s missed shot as we were
C) there were other guys on the team who wouldn’t hit a shot 100% or 50% of the time, it would be higher than AG’s shooting percentage in that game

That is what you’re hearing when you hear frustration about AG. We are not sure that there aren’t others who could do what he does. We do know that there are others who can shoot. And the veteran status which should guarantee that your PG knows to pass that ball after the rebound doesn’t seem to exist.
Other guys rebound. Other guys hit FTs. Can other guys manage the game? Idk. But we do know AG isn’t managing the game. Is it skill or will? Idk. This is what the frustration is.
I also think we are too hard on CV - I would actually try him in this spot. I think he might be effective.

 

[ctchamps]

And yet that 1 shot he took the entire time still managed to be the worst one

Perhaps.
You certainly need to weigh that play as THE play that cost the game. That's a bias imo.

I'd say the pass Gilbert made to Josh who was alone in the paint and slow to dunk resulting in a block was pivitol. Or his missed bunny near the end of regulation after a great offensive rebound. I'd say Bouk reaching in getting his fifth foul was pivitol. There was no reason to make that play and he was put in for offense. I'd say all the drives to the basket resulting in blocks were pivitol. Perhaps taking a quick shot before the defense was set knowing there were no remaining good ones was what he was thinking. He makes that shot he's a hero. Obviously missing he's a goat.

 

[browndog319]

Perhaps.
You certainly need to weigh that play as THE play that cost the game. That's a bias imo.

I'd say the pass Gilbert made to Josh who was alone in the paint and slow to dunk resulting in a block was pivitol. Or his missed bunny near the end of regulation after a great offensive rebound. I'd say Bouk reaching in getting his fifth foul was pivitol. There was no reason to make that play and he was put in for offense. I'd say all the drives to the basket resulting in blocks were pivitol. Perhaps taking a quick shot before the defense was set knowing there were no remaining good ones was what he was thinking. He makes that shot he's a hero. Obviously missing he's a goat.

I would also say AG strolling down the court like he’s choosing donuts at the end of reg was pretty decisive. Sure, could that have been stolen by X. But you don’t take all the time on the clock and not get it to someone who can shoot. And when you’re not shooting well, you don’t take that shot... and DH shouldn’t make him take that shot.