Hurley ponders his options to go double big

[auror]

Did I say they should stand next to each other posting up? It is not surprising that you only think of offense as a bunch of 1-on-1 action rather than team basketball.

High post is a zone killer, and a lot of teams play zones to stop 3 pointers. Stretch 2-3 zones line up very well against the 5-out offenses you like so much, but those same stretch 2-3's have a huge hole at the high post. Get the ball to Sanogo a few times, have him school the center a couple of times, and the top of the zone will have to drop down or they will go man. Even in Man, they will have to help against Sanogo on the high post. Someone should be flashing weakside when Sanogo gets doubled, and it is easier for Sanogo to find a 7 footer rather than a swingman. Everyone on defense starts cheating in, and they have to close hard because they are covering a lot of ground on the kick out, Which means that when the 4 pops out to the corner or at the top of the arc, he will be WIDE OPEN.

Or we can play navery-offense and have them keep swinging the ball around the perimeter until the clock winds down and someone has to jack a prayer. Let's see where that gets us.

This is pretty much all wrong or irrelevant (not a lot of teams play zones to stop 3 pointers, weird tangent about stretch 2-3 that nobody plays to stop 5-out offenses when Hurley said he wants to play 4-out and there's no evidence we're going to play 5-out, you want Sanogo to school the center from the high post but his game is almost entirely based on low post, why do they help against Sanogo in high post he can't really dribble and has no face up game, you can still flash weakside if you start in the corner behind the arc, everyone on defense cheating in is a good reason to have your guys on the arc, which is why they have to close hard because your guys are outside the arc, just because you have a team playing "4-out" doesn't mean there are no cuts to the basket or motion or off ball screens, Navery never suggested he wanted the offense to be entirely swung around the perimeter offense he even specifically mentioned getting the ball inside to Sanogo).

That all being said, this is a dumb argument. You're both saying the same thing. The offense should feature Sanogo and have him kick out to shooters, whether they start inside or outside doesn't really matter as long as we have off-ball movement or can get the ball consistently into Sanogo in favorable situations to force doubles and rotations. We should do both.

 

[Chief00]

If we are depending on 3’s to win from Adama or Donovan, we will be in trouble. Fortunately, that’s not the case.

These here who think, leading the nation in rebounding for nearly a decade has nothing to do with all of Calhoun’s winning ways, good luck! I can tell you first hand how important that was to him. He had the rebound drills to prove it too. LOL

Chief will go with an offensive Torture Chamber in the paint with a weak side rebounder to clean up any imperfections, then give me the 3 verified three point shooters, with at least one who can penetrate. That’s the way to go.

 

[Chief00]

Clingan is just huge. When he develops into what he can be the BE is in trouble. Will be CPOY before he leaves. Karaban is going to be far better than people think.

You did your homework.

 

[Chief00]

This is pretty much all wrong or irrelevant (not a lot of teams play zones to stop 3 pointers, weird tangent about stretch 2-3 that nobody plays to stop 5-out offenses when Hurley said he wants to play 4-out and there's no evidence we're going to play 5-out, you want Sanogo to school the center from the high post but his game is almost entirely based on low post, why do they help against Sanogo in high post he can't really dribble and has no face up game, you can still flash weakside if you start in the corner behind the arc, everyone on defense cheating in is a good reason to have your guys on the arc, which is why they have to close hard because your guys are outside the arc, just because you have a team playing "4-out" doesn't mean there are no cuts to the basket or motion or off ball screens, Navery never suggested he wanted the offense to be entirely swung around the perimeter offense he even specifically mentioned getting the ball inside to Sanogo).

That all being said, this is a dumb argument. You're both saying the same thing. The offense should feature Sanogo and have him kick out to shooters, whether they start inside or outside doesn't really matter as long as we have off-ball movement or can get the ball consistently into Sanogo in favorable situations to force doubles and rotations. We should do both.

I think what will surprise people this year, is that within 10-12 feet, Adama has develop some good dribble and spin moves this off season. He’s going to be a load to handle. We would be crazy not to exploit that.

 

[Chief00]

I think they can play double bigs with two caveats

1) Donovan should be up high and Adama low replicating IW and AS last season

2) AJ can’t be on the floor even if his shot is dramatically improved.

That leaves 5-7 minutes stretches every few games to take advantage of this specific matchup.

I think, when healthy, Andre will probably lead the team in minutes per game. His versatility to rebound and defend at just about every position is amazing. His passing vision is truly elite, making everyone else better. At the end of the game, you will look in the box score and he will have gotten his points too. What’s refreshing to Chief is, he doesn’t worry about that part, he’s too busy helping his team win. There’s a reason coaches love this guy.

 

[dennismenace]

Double bigs is a godawful idea. This is a team that couldn’t shoot from three at all last year to the point where defenses packed the lane and practically dared us to shoot. Playing two bigs - one a freshman - is a recipe for disaster offensively and on defense neither has the foot speed to stay with athletic fours who can shoot.

Glad to see Hurley has as much fun speculating about wacky lineups as the BY does in the offseason though.

No matter how it is put together our offense is going to be devastating on the inside with AS and
a 7-2 dude who can pass, rebound and score in the post. Oh and we will feature a couple of outside shooters as well. These guys are going to create matchup nightmares. Let's just hope Dan Hurley will be open minded and flexible about what he has and how to make that talent work instead of trying to force the talent into a box that is in his imagination. I think he has a great group of assistants as well so he should have the words "I need help" (coaches) so that he can adjust instead of being rigid. It isn't hard once you realize you cannot do it all by yourself.

 

[dennismenace]

I also think Clingan can quickly become enough of a threat with foul line and elbow jumpers to make it work. And yes, I realize a 15' jump shot by a 7'2" players is one of the least valuable shots in today's game.

But eventually you need to figure out what works best for your best talent and there will be some games where this can work for 3-5 minutes a half.

That's it in a nutshell. Let the talent work for you instead of your imagination of what the world says it "should be".

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is pretty much all wrong or irrelevant (not a lot of teams play zones to stop 3 pointers, weird tangent about stretch 2-3 that nobody plays to stop 5-out offenses when Hurley said he wants to play 4-out and there's no evidence we're going to play 5-out, you want Sanogo to school the center from the high post but his game is almost entirely based on low post, why do they help against Sanogo in high post he can't really dribble and has no face up game, you can still flash weakside if you start in the corner behind the arc, everyone on defense cheating in is a good reason to have your guys on the arc, which is why they have to close hard because your guys are outside the arc, just because you have a team playing "4-out" doesn't mean there are no cuts to the basket or motion or off ball screens, Navery never suggested he wanted the offense to be entirely swung around the perimeter offense he even specifically mentioned getting the ball inside to Sanogo).

That all being said, this is a dumb argument. You're both saying the same thing. The offense should feature Sanogo and have him kick out to shooters, whether they start inside or outside doesn't really matter as long as we have off-ball movement or can get the ball consistently into Sanogo in favorable situations to force doubles and rotations. We should do both.

Everyone plays a stretch 2-3 to stop 5 outs. Zones don't care about cutters, are hard to screen, the outside base defenders of the zone can easily close on corner shooters, and the zone rotates easily to the ball. Why would you play straight up man-to-man defense against a 5 out defense?

Coaches may not want 5 out offenses to just be swing the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock runs out, but that is what often happens if the opposing coach is not an idiot.

 

[Palatine]

Last year we got killed by PC inside. Their big guys bullied us in the paint.

If nothing else, playing DC and Adama together would have made it impossible for PC to dominate inside as they did. The big tandem gives Hurley a option he didn't have last year. It's simply a question of when to use them to our advantage or when does solve a problem.

 

[Jay-Bone]

“Donovan is such a skilled passer, even in the high post and key area, whether it is versus a zone or man-to-man that we are tinkering, especially with Andre’s injury, at playing more zone and trying to find a way to get them on the court together a little bit,” Hurley said. “Obviously, we really want to play Donovan.”

Insiders are telling me with AJ's absence Donovan is going to point-center.


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Hurley should have played two bigs when he had Carlton.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

I am not opposed to the two bigs lineup and it is a completely different look than our two "bigs" lineup with Whaley and Adama. Whaley and Clingan are two completely different players with different skill sets so I do not think we should compare our offensive struggles with that lineup to what we can run out there this year.

We are a better shooting team this year, on paper, than last year and clogging up the middle should open up looks for the wings and guards. Should a Clingan/Sanogo lineup be the primary lineup? Probably not, but I am not going to cast it off until it is proven to be a detriment.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In the video posted the other day, Luke mentions that Hurley sees the game as one of three positions. Guard, Wing, Forward. I would assume "Forward" means the same as "Big". So, yes, we will play two bigs most of the time. Adama, Johnson, Karaban, Clingan, Springs are our forwards/bigs (not counting the internationals, don't know how they fit).

Do I expect the pairing of Clingan and Sanogo to happen often? No. I'm sure it will happen, but not much.

 

[Huskyforlife]

In the video posted the other day, Luke mentions that Hurley sees the game as one of three positions. Guard, Wing, Forward. I would assume "Forward" means the same as "Big". So, yes, we will play two bigs most of the time. Adama, Johnson, Karaban, Clingan, Springs are our forwards/bigs (not counting the internationals, don't know how they fit).

Do I expect the pairing of Clingan and Sanogo to happen often? No. I'm sure it will happen, but not much.

Could be 2 guards and wings with 1 forward though. But it does seem like the starting unit would consider AK a forward based on that video.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I wouldn’t hate the idea of two bigs if one or both can pass into the post and/or consistently hit jumpers from the free throw area if the middle is open. DC could make a living on alley oops if that were the case similar to Amida.

 

[Chief00]

Another point is they both have good hands unlike certain past guys discussed.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Isaiah Whaley by all standards was a solid shooter for a big. Do we expect DC to shoot like he did? I really don’t understand this logic.

 

[Icehawk]

6'9" Forward.... Adama Sanogo

 

[HuskyHawk]

Isaiah Whaley by all standards was a solid shooter for a big. Do we expect DC to shoot like he did? I really don’t understand this logic.

He should be better than Whaley was. But the main thing really, is his passing. He’s a good passer, and at 7’2” there isn’t a damned thing anybody can do about it. So, you get him the ball above the FT line and he’s a threat to shoot or pass. How do you defend his entry pass to the post?

Whaley was a limited player. Not a good passer, a meh shooter and no ability to attack off the bounce. Defense is a different story.

 

[Huskyforlife]

He should be better than Whaley was. But the main thing really, is his passing. He’s a good passer, and at 7’2” there isn’t a damned thing anybody can do about it. So, you get him the ball above the FT line and he’s a threat to shoot or pass. How do you defend his entry pass to the post?

Whaley was a limited player. Not a good passer, a meh shooter and no ability to attack off the bounce. Defense is a different story.

How does this effect Samson Johnson’s legacy?

 

[MexicoHusky]

Potentially 2 Centers playing at once. Jackson as a guard when he gets back. We will be big for sure. But we sound like an average shooting slow team.

Who knows. Maybe it'll work.

 

[Deleted at users request]

He should be better than Whaley was. But the main thing really, is his passing. He’s a good passer, and at 7’2” there isn’t a damned thing anybody can do about it. So, you get him the ball above the FT line and he’s a threat to shoot or pass. How do you defend his entry pass to the post?

Whaley was a limited player. Not a good passer, a meh shooter and no ability to attack off the bounce. Defense is a different story.

Freshman DC is going to be better offensively than senior year Whaley?

 

[husky429]

Potentially 2 Centers playing at once. Jackson as a guard when he gets back. We will be big for sure. But we sound like an average shooting slow team.

Who knows. Maybe it'll work.

Average shooting with those 3 on the floor is extremely generous.

 

[Psolo12]

Hurley should have played two bigs when he had Carlton.

Was wondering how long it would be before his name got thrown in here. Bravo.

 

[NotADime89]

Freshman DC is going to be better offensively than senior year Whaley?

Did you miss the part of that post where he said DC is 7'2" (while Whaley was 6'9"). I'd say that could make quite the difference. Below is the part of Husky Hawks post you're failing to acknowledge

"He’s a good passer, and at 7’2” there isn’t a damned thing anybody can do about it. So, you get him the ball above the FT line and he’s a threat to shoot or pass. How do you defend his entry pass to the post?"

 

[PAHusky]

Isaiah Whaley by all standards was a solid shooter for a big. Do we expect DC to shoot like he did? I really don’t understand this logic.

Exactly this. Not only was Whaley a better shooter/floor spacer than either DC or Adama, he had way more lateral quickness and is a much better on ball defender against wings/guards than either (yes, we haven't technically seen DC play defense in college, no, I'm not going to entertain the thought that he's better at guarding guards in college than a former BE DPOY).

I realize that it's tempting to look at their combined size and wonder what if, but this two bigs idea is a joke. Like it or not, putting two guys who can't shoot consistently from beyond 15 feet is a recipe for a stagnant offense, one of them will always be getting dragged out of the lane and targeted on defense, they'd get killed in transition, etc. Please stop citing 80's NBA teams as an example of two bigs working. They don't. Adama will start, hopefully DC gets some decent minutes this year and gets some valuable college experience that allows him to seamlessly step in when Adama goes.

 

[PAHusky]

Did you miss the part of that post where he said DC is 7'2" (while Whaley was 6'9"). I'd say that could make quite the difference. Below is the part of Husky Hawks post you're failing to acknowledge

"He’s a good passer, and at 7’2” there isn’t a damned thing anybody can do about it. So, you get him the ball above the FT line and he’s a threat to shoot or pass. How do you defend his entry pass to the post?

That extra five inches is completely meaningless. You're suggesting they run the entire offense through a freshman center? Where does Sanogo work in this scenario - they're both sitting in the paint playing a high low game like its 1950? Are we aiming to keep the total score under 100, as I don't see us getting up and down in transition with those two?

The point is - Whaley, who was a six year senior who could shoot from deep, is almost certainly a better offensive option than a freshman DC who has never played a minute of college ball, especially when it comes to spacing and having a coherent offense.

Hurley could barely get a decently productive offense on the court with Bouknight et al, and the suggestion is less shooting and more lane clogging?

 

[NotADime89]

That extra five inches is completely meaningless. You're suggesting they run the entire offense through a freshman center? Where does Sanogo work in this scenario - they're both sitting in the paint playing a high low game like its 1950? Are we aiming to keep the total score under 100, as I don't see us getting up and down in transition with those two?

The point is - Whaley, who was a six year senior who could shoot from deep, is almost certainly a better offensive option than a freshman DC who has never played a minute of college ball, especially when it comes to spacing and having a coherent offense.

Hurley could barely get a decently productive offense on the court with Bouknight et al, and the suggestion is less shooting and more lane clogging?

Who said they're going to run the entire offense through him??? The discussion is to play them together for maybe 5-10 minutes a game where Hurley sees fit not 30 minutes a game. Jesus nothing the BY loves more than blowing things out of proportion

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Hurley should have played two bigs when he had Carlton.

His outside game would have been a big help. Dude shot 100% from 3 last season.

 

[HuskyHawk]

How does this effect Samson Johnson’s legacy?

Samson will make many highlight reel dunks off of lob feeds from Clingan, or in transition from his outlet passes after rebounds.

Freshman DC is going to be better offensively than senior year Whaley?

He should be a better passer based on what Hurley has said. He's probably better as a post scorer, for the obvious reason that he's so much harder to defend. Shooting? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me. I'm paraphrasing, but didn't Hurley say he was "Big East ready" as an offensive player? It's defense, footspeed, and other things that will take time.