Hurley Planning on an 8 man rotation

[jibsey]

Jackson has put a lot of time on his shot so we’ll see if he became a good shooter this summer. It’s always projected but never happens.

 

[auror]

Dear Lord...if Polley plays even 1 minute at the 4 on a team with Whaley, Akok, Johnson and Springs, things have gone badly wrong. Even Martin and Jackson are better able to defend the position. Give those 10 minutes to Akok and this is about right.

I agree with you in general (the above was my attempt to put the puzzle pieces of what the coaches will do based on what they've been saying), and agree that Martin and Jackson are better defenders there. But I do think there are definitely scenarios where he should play some minutes at the 4, just maybe not on an every game basis (opponents who zone or have similar slow-footed but don't post forwards).

And this is especially true because I'm a bit worried about Akok. I was very optimistic this summer, but Coachspeak has been very mixed and abstract this fall. I would love nothing more than to bump Polley's minutes down for a defensively dominant and good shooting Akok. And I doubt Johnson's there yet for more than 10 minutes.

 

[drayenob]

 

[freescooter]

Coaches make statements all the time for purposes other than that they are true. Motivating players. Relaxing fanbases. Getting reporters off their backs.

I get why people want to analyze these statements, but remember that Hurley doesn't necessarily believe these words as they come out of his mouth, and that's before even considering how much his view of the team could change between now and the trip to the Bahamas.

You are absolutely right. This goes into the same category as “we are going to press for 40 minutes” and “we will be a running team.” None of those things will happen either.

 

[imno1]

Hurley has traditionally leaned on small lineups, so I would think the forwards will be the ones getting cut back. Carlton averaged 11 mpg last year (which doesn't include a couple of DNP's) yet he is good enough to be recruited by one of last year's Final Four teams.

If Carlton stayed who is he bumping? Not Sanogo or Whaley and probably not Johnson as the season progresses. I like Josh but he would see spot minutes probably less than last year. He left on good terms. I hope he does well in Houston. I’ll be rooting for him.

 

[SportsFan88]

The article says 8 will get “starter minutes” not that the others won’t play. The guys not in the top 8 just need to earn there minutes. Hopefully this lights a fire and ultimately everyone gets better because of it.

Ppl really don’t comprehend LOL

 

[auror]

Is this One Dire Wolf Moon?

 

[JustbrewitMan]

Woof…Some folks in this thread making very strong cases for securing their “starter minutes” on the Horrible Takes team.

 

[fatlucy]

Polly will not be getting 20 minutes. Maybe 10 for instant offense. I hope I’m wrong but he’s a huge liability on defense and he can’t rebound to save his life, or his career.

 

[Psolo12]

he's right. Josh Carlton coming to a tv set in ur living room soon enough.
that young man is far from done. he'll be getting paid, also soon enough.
University of Houston picked to win AAC basketball (houstonchronicle.com)

My TV set doesn’t get ESPN+ or whatever the AAC plays on

 

[Ant3411]

Odds are there will be injuries throughout the season so these minute allocations will vary. And if we do stay healthy, then this is a great problem to have.

If you can’t crack the top 8/9 on our team then maybe you shouldn’t be on the court.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's barely even worth the engagement with you on Polley, but I'll just direct you to @August_West 's post for an accurate description of his defense. He's going to play big minutes this year whether you like it or not, you can fight it all you want but the people who matter realize his value to the team

Maybe look at my post just before that where I said he was hurt by our scheme. It's similar to what @August_West said. We can perhaps disagree a bit on his team defense, it was better before his ACL injury. But he can't keep most of the people he guards outside from blowing by him and he can't handle anybody physical inside. He can lay off a bit of shorter guys and use his length to bother their shot. But the real issue is that our defense too frequently asks our 5 to vacate the lane and hedge outside, which is an open invitation to attack the rim. I believe this is a problem for Gaffney as well, who also struggled (to a lesser degree) to keep his man from getting past him. Park a shot blocker in the paint and this is less of an issue and our ability to guard tight outside improves. It's what Calhoun did for years. It's what the Celtics did with Russell ("hey Bill").

Will Hurley change things? I don't know. He's got Clingan coming in, and I don't see how he can play defense in our current system. Calhoun made his shift after we started recruiting real 5s. Maybe Hurley will as well. This is the year to do it. Sanogo (or whoever is the 5) shouldn't venture past the foul line. Use Whaley and Akok at the 4 to hard hedge if you need to, they can both recover quickly.

 

[navery12]

Maybe look at my post just before that where I said he was hurt by our scheme. It's similar to what @August_West said. We can perhaps disagree a bit on his team defense, it was better before his ACL injury. But he can't keep most of the people he guards outside from blowing by him and he can't handle anybody physical inside. He can lay off a bit of shorter guys and use his length to bother their shot. But the real issue is that our defense too frequently asks our 5 to vacate the lane and hedge outside, which is an open invitation to attack the rim. I believe this is a problem for Gaffney as well, who also struggled (to a lesser degree) to keep his man from getting past him. Park a shot blocker in the paint and this is less of an issue and our ability to guard tight outside improves. It's what Calhoun did for years. It's what the Celtics did with Russell ("hey Bill").

Will Hurley change things? I don't know. He's got Clingan coming in, and I don't see how he can play defense in our current system. Calhoun made his shift after we started recruiting real 5s. Maybe Hurley will as well. This is the year to do it. Sanogo (or whoever is the 5) shouldn't venture past the foul line. Use Whaley and Akok at the 4 to hard hedge if you need to, they can both recover quickly.

I guess I'm just not as down on Hurley's defensive system as you. I know you love to rail on the hard hedge every chance you get, but the data just doesn't back it up. It was gonna an issue for Sanogo all year until all of a sudden at the end of the year it wasn't and Sanogo was playing good to great defense. Now it's gonna be an issue for Clingan. There's definitely room for adjustments with Hurley and he can incorporate zone at times, but it's just not as simple as hard hedge = bad and needs to be eliminated.

In 2021 you can't just say the 5 should never go past the free throw line, it doesn't work. It's an old school mentality that's even more evidenced by all the examples you've used to support your points (Thabeet/Bill Russell)

 

[husky429]

Maybe look at my post just before that where I said he was hurt by our scheme. It's similar to what @August_West said. We can perhaps disagree a bit on his team defense, it was better before his ACL injury. But he can't keep most of the people he guards outside from blowing by him and he can't handle anybody physical inside. He can lay off a bit of shorter guys and use his length to bother their shot. But the real issue is that our defense too frequently asks our 5 to vacate the lane and hedge outside, which is an open invitation to attack the rim. I believe this is a problem for Gaffney as well, who also struggled (to a lesser degree) to keep his man from getting past him. Park a shot blocker in the paint and this is less of an issue and our ability to guard tight outside improves. It's what Calhoun did for years. It's what the Celtics did with Russell ("hey Bill").

Will Hurley change things? I don't know. He's got Clingan coming in, and I don't see how he can play defense in our current system. Calhoun made his shift after we started recruiting real 5s. Maybe Hurley will as well. This is the year to do it. Sanogo (or whoever is the 5) shouldn't venture past the foul line. Use Whaley and Akok at the 4 to hard hedge if you need to, they can both recover quickly.

Hedging with the big man is significantly more effective when you have a shotblocker at the 4 like Whaley or Akok or Johnson parked in the paint. Those 3 will probably be our rotation at the 4, so I expect our defense to look more cohesive when Sanogo or Whaley at the 5 hedges hard.

Way more important for us to have athletes and shotblockers to defend the rim at the 3 and 4 than it is for the center in our scheme, oddly enough. Sanogo was a smart recruitment in that regard, though he does need to quicken his feet for hedging.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Hedging with the big man is significantly more effective when you have a shotblocker at the 4 like Whaley or Akok or Johnson parked in the paint. Those 3 will probably be our rotation at the 4, so I expect our defense to look more cohesive when Sanogo or Whaley at the 5 hedges hard.

Way more important for us to have athletes and shotblockers to defend the rim at the 3 and 4 than it is for the center in our scheme, oddly enough. Sanogo was a smart recruitment in that regard, though he does need to quicken his feet for hedging.

Agree with this. Shot blockers at both the 4 and 5 improve things dramatically. And Jackson can do that at the 3 as well. It's not just as simple as the 5 staying put, although having Carlton chase out to the 3 and beyond was dumb. I also dislike when we chase guys who aren't actually good shooters. Out opponents don't chase Sanogo out there, they keep the 5 back. We too often got suckered into it and left the rim open.

 

[husky429]

Agree with this. Shot blockers at both the 4 and 5 improve things dramatically. And Jackson can do that at the 3 as well. It's not just as simple as the 5 staying put, although having Carlton chase out to the 3 and beyond was dumb. I also dislike when we chase guys who aren't actually good shooters. Out opponents don't chase Sanogo out there, they keep the 5 back. We too often got suckered into it and left the rim open.

Hopefully better scouting and tailoring our defensive scheme to specific opponents will be the next evolution on that end of the floor. You can beat a lot of teams--even a lot of T1 teams--with a 1 dimensional defense. You don't beat the Villanovas, Houstons, Michigan's etc. of the world if you aren't scouting and implementing a flexible defense like the NBA does come playoff time.

 

[Sphinx]

As Mike Tyson famously said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." Every coach's plans change after a couple of losses -- or one bad one.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

Agree with this. Shot blockers at both the 4 and 5 improve things dramatically. And Jackson can do that at the 3 as well. It's not just as simple as the 5 staying put, although having Carlton chase out to the 3 and beyond was dumb. I also dislike when we chase guys who aren't actually good shooters. Out opponents don't chase Sanogo out there, they keep the 5 back. We too often got suckered into it and left the rim open.

It's really not that relevant whether the person you're hard-hedging and chasing away from the basket can shoot the rock or not. Some of the basic principles/ideas/benefits are to:
-Put pressure on a potentially suspect dribbler/passer/poor decisionmaker when under duress
-Create direct turnovers due to exceptional defenders (i.e., Whaley with his many strip steals of even good ball handlers)
-Create secondary turnovers by forcing additional unplanned passes from bad points on the court
-At the very least, take the offense out of their planned flow/set

 

[bendm]

Forgot him. I'd think he's probably in the 10mpg-ish group.

All reports definitely do not have Johnson in that second group.

he was saying you forgot about johnson but that all reports have martin in the second group ie getting starters minutes, which i def agree with, for better or worse.

i'll go a step further and say he's the 4th lock to be in the starting lineup

 

[jibsey]

We pretty much know what Sanogo, Whaley, Cole, Martin and Gaffney can do because we’ve seen it. Everyone else because of past injury, development or just being freshman we simply do not know at this point.

 

[UCPharma11]

Yeah, because bad team chemistry has been a hallmark of all of Coach Hurley's teams.

In fact, one of the best things about Hurley's programs has been the culture & chemistry.

God, some of you BY'ers are so insufferable & unintentionally/intentionally daft.

Sounds like it's still an issue. When Hurley said "...when Tyler Polley is engaged defensively..."; that was coachspeak for "Tyler Polley isn't engaged defensively."

Lets put Polly at the top of a 1-2-2 zone, Akok and Samson down in the low post.