How many 4* recruits does Hurley need to not lose to USF?

[huskyfan224]

These are some laugh out loud funny posts blaming Hurley. We are a season and a half into his tenure and he's not a good coach? Haha

 

[superjohn]

Do you remember the time UConn beat Shaq with Rod Sellers at center? I do.

Stop blaming the players.

Nelson's going back 30 years now to continue his act, yikes.

Do you remember the time Miss State and Daryll Wilson beat UConn and Ray Allen? I do.

Stop blaming the players.

 

[BlueMAB]

Hurley has been mediocre

@Kathy

How am I blaming the players?

 

[Kathy]

We have too many players that aren’t mentally or physically tough enough.

This has been apparent for over 3 years.

But apparently that’s Hurley’s fault.

Hurley has been mediocre, but the players have been terribly inconsistent. That’s the one consistent thing about them. Feels like this team hasn’t strung together more than 2-3 good games in a row since 2014.

I'd say there is blame on the players there.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson's going back 30 years now to continue his act, yikes.

Do you remember the time Miss State and Daryll Wilson beat UConn and Ray Allen? I do.

Stop blaming the players.

You don't even know what you are arguing now, do you?

 

[Bonk]

The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.

 

[fatlucy]

The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.

The good players transferred.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.

Correct. And I can believe this and still believe that Dan Hurley is the right guy for the job. Right now I think he simply had a vision and the guys he has don't fit his vision. Is some of that on the players? Sure. AG is certainly not living up to his billing. Carlton got worse with the added weight. Polley hasn't learned to do anything but shoot, although I see more effort to rebound lately. Vital still does dumb stuff. Sid is an enigma.

But I feel comfortable blaming Hurley for the fact that Josh is the guy out catching passes beyond the line up top and handing the ball off or setting ineffective screens. It's a role he is unsuited to perform, more so now than last year. I can blame Dan Hurley for Josh chasing his man way too far away from the basket. I can blame him for an offense that relies on ball screens and yet has no good screeners or guys who can create off of a ball screen. Scrap all three of those things and this team is better. I can blame him for overvaluing time outs and not stopping runs by the other team. I see our opponents calling those time outs immediately.

It's entirely fair to say that the upper classmen in particular are limited players. It's also fair to say that Hurley isn't getting the most out of them or putting them in positions that take advantage of what they do well and minimize what they do poorly.

 

[Bonk]

Correct. And I can believe this and still believe that Dan Hurley is the right guy for the job. Right now I think he simply had a vision and the guys he has don't fit his vision. Is some of that on the players? Sure. AG is certainly not living up to his billing. Carlton got worse with the added weight. Polley hasn't learned to do anything but shoot, although I see more effort to rebound lately. Vital still does dumb stuff. Sid is an enigma.

But I feel comfortable blaming Hurley for the fact that Josh is the guy out catching passes beyond the line up top and handing the ball off or setting ineffective screens. It's a role he is unsuited to perform, more so now than last year. I can blame Dan Hurley for Josh chasing his man way too far away from the basket. I can blame him for an offense that relies on ball screens and yet has no good screeners or guys who can create off of a ball screen. Scrap all three of those things and this team is better. I can blame him for overvaluing time outs and not stopping runs by the other team. I see our opponents calling those time outs immediately.

It's entirely fair to say that the upper classmen in particular are limited players. It's also fair to say that Hurley isn't getting the most out of them or putting them in positions that take advantage of what they do well and minimize what they do poorly.

Agree 100%

 

[BlueMAB]

I'd say there is blame on the players there.

That's criticism. Valid criticism, IMO. Do you disagree that some lack physical and mental toughness? I can point to examples. Yes, they deserve some blame.

I also said Hurley has been mediocre.

I'll ask you the same question I asked @nelsonmuntz (which he didn't answer).

How much blame do the players have? Is it none? Do they have zero accountability for the way they perform?

The reality is they all share some blame. No accomplishment (or failure) by an organization or team, can be solely attributed to one person.

 

[BlueMAB]

Is it my fault that UConn got thumped by two mediocre to bad teams this week?

Are you talking about the Northeastern and Wagner games?

The difference between the 40th best team in the country and the 100th best team in the country is really small. It is, on average, five to ten plays a game. The talent level for these teams is really close, because the superstars are mostly on the Top 20 teams, and the talentless teams are getting their doors blown off. These teams are all capable of pulling the big upset, or getting picked off by the #200 team.

This is where coaching really matters. It is the difference between 21-11 and the NCAA's, and 17-15 and no tournament.

Unless your name is Kevin Ollie...

Ollie was a casualty of the conference debacle as much as anything, and I will not hold him completely responsible for UConn basketball's decline post-2014.

Strange because you're holding Hurley completely responsible for UConn's performance in the same conference with largely the same players.

NO UCONN COACH could have maintained any level of success in the AAC. This conference was going to destroy UConn athletics, and even though we are going back to the big time, it may be too late.

And yet here you are, blaming the coach (who definitely shares responsibility for the results) and refusing to even acknowledge that the players have ANY responsibility whatsoever. Instead you reference 1 game from the early 90s as evidence that Vital and Gilbert don't ever make bad decisions.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The players are what they are, and there is a range of outcomes their talent level can achieve this season. I think a tournament bid is on the upper end of that range, and maybe 6 wins in the AAC is on the lower end of that range.

UConn has shown flashes of playing to the upper end of that range, but last week they played to the lower end of the range.

I only BLAME the players when they quit, play selfishly, and/or stop playing hard. If the players are putting in the effort, then the rest is on the coach and fate.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Are you talking about the Northeastern and Wagner games?


Unless your name is Kevin Ollie...


Strange because you're holding Hurley completely responsible for UConn's performance in the same conference with largely the same players.



And yet here you are, blaming the coach (who definitely shares responsibility for the results) and refusing to even acknowledge that the players have ANY responsibility whatsoever. Instead you reference 1 game from the early 90s as evidence that Vital and Gilbert don't ever make bad decisions.

I am blaming Hurley for specific coaching mistakes he made against Cincinnati and USF, and to some extent, all season. I am not blaming Hurley for the outcomes.

Hurley was terrible in the Cincinnati game. It is the coaching equivalent of giving up 30 points on D and going 2 for 28 from the field with 15 turnovers.

 

[BlueMAB]

I am blaming Hurley for specific coaching mistakes he made against Cincinnati and USF, and to some extent, all season. I am not blaming Hurley for the outcomes.

Hurley was terrible in the Cincinnati game. It is the coaching equivalent of giving up 30 points on D and going 2 for 28 from the field with 15 turnovers.

Again, how much blame do the players get for their mistakes? Trying to get a benchmark.

When you dig your heels in, you make whatever debate is on the table a black and white issue. Anyone who disagrees (points out the gray area) is wrong. And instead of discussing the gray, you create strawmen. It doesn't foster discussion. It just makes you look like a .

If you only blame them for a lack of effort, you leave out the very important aspect of decision making (both on offense and defense).

 

[Huskyfan990411]

I went back and looked at the kids Ollie brought in that are still on the team vs kids Hurley brought in and compared rankings from 247:

Player(247 ranking)

Ollie kids
AG(32)
CV(166)
Polley(168)
Carlton(178)
Whaley(NR)
Wilson(89)

Hurley kids
Akok(92)
Bouk(66)
gaffney(105)
Adams(178)

Right now in terms of guys on the active roster you can clearly see a difference in level of player that Hurley is bringing in vs what was on the roster when he took over. The upperclassmen outside of AG and maybe Sid would not have ever been on any of the past UConn teams that were successful. If they were on those rosters I guarantee they would not be starters playing 30+ mins.

The kids Hurley are bringing in are clearly at a different level and once they get used to the college game things will start changing. I still think the future is bright and we just need to let the process continue. Its miserable right now watching us struggle but once you look at level of talent of the upperclassmen vs underclassmen it should not be a surprise.

Coming in next year we have:
Cole(NR): 25+scorer 1st years in college albeit at a lower rated conference
Jackson(71)
Javonte Brown Ferguson(131): reclass from 2021 so low rating is expected
Springs(160): another reclass up a year so lower rating is going to happen

 

[Husky68]

These are some laugh out loud funny posts blaming Hurley. We are a season and a half into his tenure and he's not a good coach? Haha

Saying he is not a good coach vs. he is not coaching good recently are not the same. If these last two games are Hurley's best coaching we are in big trouble. If he's done a crappy job preparing guys and then game coaching and he sees it (hard not to) he'll make some logical adjustments, they may or may not work but that's part of the game.

Many on here think Ollie was a bad coach, maybe he was/is, but he coached the Shabazz team well. Maybe all it took was stay out of the way as the boys climbed the stairs but whatever it was there are a lot of coaches that have had teams with more talent than the Shabazz team and have zero NCAA championships to their credit.
So, after a season and a half of his tenure Hurley indeed did not do a good job coaching the team to blowout losses to Cincinnati and USF.

Why is it ok for Hurley to say he's got to get Josh going as Josh hasn't been playing well and not for me to say Hurley has got to get his coaching going as the whole team has not been playing well. Hurley is the one getting those big checks.

 

[superjohn]

I went back and looked at the kids Ollie brought in that are still on the team vs kids Hurley brought in and compared rankings from 247:

Player(247 ranking)

Ollie kids
AG(32)
CV(166)
Polley(168)
Carlton(178)
Whaley(NR)
Wilson(89)

Hurley kids
Akok(92)
Bouk(66)
gaffney(105)
Adams(178)

Right now in terms of guys on the active roster you can clearly see a difference in level of player that Hurley is bringing in vs what was on the roster when he took over. The upperclassmen outside of AG and maybe Sid would not have ever been on any of the past UConn teams that were successful. If they were on those rosters I guarantee they would not be starters playing 30+ mins.

The kids Hurley are bringing in are clearly at a different level and once they get used to the college game things will start changing. I still think the future is bright and we just need to let the process continue. Its miserable right now watching us struggle but once you look at level of talent of the upperclassmen vs underclassmen it should not be a surprise.

Coming in next year we have:
Cole(NR): 25+scorer 1st years in college albeit at a lower rated conference
Jackson(71)
Javonte Brown Ferguson(131): reclass from 2021 so low rating is expected
Springs(160): another reclass up a year so lower rating is going to happen

Akok was top 30.

 

[Huskyfan990411]

Akok was top 30.

That 92 number did seem off for Akok as I remember it being much higher. I took those rankings straight from 247 but even at 92 I think its clear that Hurley is consistently bringing in top 100 talent vs what was recruited in previous years. The results will follow.

 

[bendm]

That 92 number did seem off for Akok as I remember it being much higher. I took those rankings straight from 247 but even at 92 I think its clear that Hurley is consistently bringing in top 100 talent vs what was recruited in previous years. The results will follow.

he plummeted after leaving highschool and joining UConn mid-year but he was top 30 before that

 

[superjohn]

That 92 number did seem off for Akok as I remember it being much higher. I took those rankings straight from 247 but even at 92 I think its clear that Hurley is consistently bringing in top 100 talent vs what was recruited in previous years. The results will follow.

It's the same thing they did with Drummond when he reclassified, he was #1 or #2 all through high school and then when he changed his mind last minute to enroll at UConn they dropped him to some weird low ranking.

 

[HooperScooper]

It's the same thing they did with Drummond when he reclassified, he was #1 or #2 all through high school and then when he changed his mind last minute to enroll at UConn they dropped him to some weird low ranking.

I think that composite ranking number is an average of a bunch of recruiting sites. Akok waas definitely in the 30-40 range. Once Akok and Drummond left their original class and didn't enroll in the fall of the classes they were originally ranked in some of the recruiting sites just dropped them out of any rankings completely, thereby skewing the composite ranking.

Rivals dropped Akok out of the 2019 rankings altogether once he enrolled early at UConn. I did ask Corey Evans at Rivals why not keep him in the 2019 rankings since that is the first year of college basketball he would play. I don't remember his specific answer but he did say they are consistent that they take recruits out of the rankings altogether if they enroll early. He said they don't do that in football, where enrolling early is more prevalent, because the college football season is over before the 2nd semester starts. Whatever.

 

[Huskybass]

After a few weeks to ponder these questions my truth is this: Hurley is not at this point a good coach and we do not have even AAC level talent aside from Bouk, Akok. And I’ll give Hurley a few seasons to grow into the role because it seems like he actually might be good at spotting players.

Thinking back to all these 4,5* “stud” recruits since 2013 how many do you recall thinking they would be special after seeing them play actual games? How many of them do you recall thinking they were seriously flawed and overrated right out of the gate? Until this year I cannot think of one that I would put in the former category.

There is a reason why our post Calhoun recruits are not making it to the league. Positionless, for sure. In that they cannot play any position well.

We have a few freshmen looking like they actually might be a threat on the court and we all went out of our minds for a few games. That is not an indication they will be All Americans. That is an indictment on what our recruiting had become.

Great post. I would add Gaffney to your list along with Akok and Bouk as far as very talented players on this squad. He hasn't really shown it yet, but I believe he is part of the upgrade in talent. I believe Cole will be at that level as well, and likely Andre Jackson too. My long-winded way of saying UConn is getting there, but it will take time.

 

[huskyfan224]

Saying he is not a good coach vs. he is not coaching good recently are not the same. If these last two games are Hurley's best coaching we are in big trouble. If he's done a crappy job preparing guys and then game coaching and he sees it (hard not to) he'll make some logical adjustments, they may or may not work but that's part of the game.

Many on here think Ollie was a bad coach, maybe he was/is, but he coached the Shabazz team well. Maybe all it took was stay out of the way as the boys climbed the stairs but whatever it was there are a lot of coaches that have had teams with more talent than the Shabazz team and have zero NCAA championships to their credit.
So, after a season and a half of his tenure Hurley indeed did not do a good job coaching the team to blowout losses to Cincinnati and USF.

Why is it ok for Hurley to say he's got to get Josh going as Josh hasn't been playing well and not for me to say Hurley has got to get his coaching going as the whole team has not been playing well. Hurley is the one getting those big checks.

Coaches struggle too, that's not uncommon. And I never said those were his best games, if anyone thinks that they are delusional. I don't think he's done a bad job at all, it's more on the players to me. Could he send some more messages and make some more adjustments, sure. He's a solid coach and will figure it out. Blowout losses happen to every coach, back to back sucks and it was a bad week. Put it behind and move forward.

Ollie was an okay coach, had a nice run and then ran this program into the ground and look where we are at. He had one of the best players in college basketball that season in Shabazz, that is a huge reason why UConn won the tournament. Having an unstoppable player does wonders. It was a confident team that knew how to play together and get after it.

I just feel like there are a lot on here acting like liberals who want everything handed to them without the hard work that goes with it.

 

[AdamaNation]

Coaches struggle too, that's not uncommon. And I never said those were his best games, if anyone thinks that they are delusional. I don't think he's done a bad job at all, it's more on the players to me. Could he send some more messages and make some more adjustments, sure. He's a solid coach and will figure it out. Blowout losses happen to every coach, back to back sucks and it was a bad week. Put it behind and move forward.

Ollie was an okay coach, had a nice run and then ran this program into the ground and look where we are at. He had one of the best players in college basketball that season in Shabazz, that is a huge reason why UConn won the tournament. Having an unstoppable player does wonders. It was a confident team that knew how to play together and get after it.

I just feel like there are a lot on here acting like liberals who want everything handed to them without the hard work that goes with it.

Am I alone wanting free 5* recruits and titles every year? I guess not if you want to “work” for it.

 

[Lefty2one]

Do any fans watch our team and--outside of the freshman--think, "Gee, these guys are so much more talented than other players in the AAC"? Ignore recruiting rankings and use your eyes. I just don't see it. Are they better? Sure. Is it a big enough gap to guarantee wins most nights? Certainly not.

Vital, Carlton, Polley, Whaley, Wilson, etc aren't anything special. They aren't too good or too talented for the AAC. They aren't leaps and bounds better than what Tulane is trotting out there. Gilbert is maybe the only KO guy who can stand out: despite his issues his quickness is on another level from other AAC guards and he has the ability, albeit inconsistently, to make plays that most AAC guys can't make. Even more to the point, it is clear as day how different Bouknight and Akok are compared to the rest of our team. These are vintage UConn recruits and they are clearly a leap above the players we've brought in over the last five years, with the exception of Jalen Adams. They also aren't one-and-dones and need time to develop. They won't fix this overnight.

Once you get out of the Top 100 there really isn't a huge gap between guys. You'll get a mixed bag whether a kid is ranked 115 or 300. It's a crapshoot. Recruiting analysts don't spend a ton of time ranking guys after the Top 100 anyway, and even the Top 100 is a disaster every year.

This was one of the most hotly debated topics towards the end of the KO era: coaching vs talent. For as terrible of a coach as KO was--and he was that bad--the talent level in this program was trending downward and then fell off a cliff after the 2016-17 season. It's going to take several years to get this program back to Top 25 status. We need more talent.