How many 4* recruits does Hurley need to not lose to USF?

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Rankings only mean something if you play up to them. It doesn't guarantee anything. This board is far too rankings obsessed. Outside of our freshman, who are freshman after all, Gilbert was ranked high but was derailed by injuries. Who else is ranked high? Sid? Good athlete but skinny and lacks skill. He was overranked, most likely cuz his athletic ability carried the day in high school but doesn't alone in college. Perhaps there is a work ethic issue thats been alluded to at times. Everyone else is 125+ and the futher away from the top you get, the more hit or miss a prospect gets in general. Players are one dimensional, lacking an important skill, lacking something physically, athletically, etc...Some guys develop, some guys don't and coaching isn't always the reason why.
I can see that it isn't ALWAYS the reason but it should be a BIG PART OF THE REASON MOST OF THE TIME (or why pay the millions to the coach and why would a kid want to come here). What are the chance a very good coach would after one year and 13 games put out a team with these kids and have them play like they did? For each player give me the glad Hurley and the other coaches got him to do/improve/stopdoing xxxxxxx.
Let's get back on this after the Tulane game, 1st year coach with a rag tag team playing on our turf! Let's see what our coach can get these "one dimensional, lacking an important skill, lacking something physically, athletically, etc." UConn kids to do, I'm hoping for the best but seems like mostly out of the coaches hands as the players are what they are.
 
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I can see that it isn't ALWAYS the reason but it should be a BIG PART OF THE REASON MOST OF THE TIME (or why pay the millions to the coach and why would a kid want to come here). What are the chance a very good coach would after one year and 13 games put out a team with these kids and have them play like they did? For each player give me the glad Hurley and the other coaches got him to do/improve/stopdoing xxxxxxx.
Let's get back on this after the Tulane game, 1st year coach with a rag tag team playing on our turf! Let's see what our coach can get these "one dimensional, lacking an important skill, lacking something physically, athletically, etc." UConn kids to do, I'm hoping for the best but seems like mostly out of the coaches hands as the players are what they are.
My whole post was about rankings in the past don't equal a talented team in the present but whatever. Of course coaching is part of the reason. I said it isn't always the reason. It is possible for a bad team to have a decent coach. It's called lack of experienced talent. People talk about how deficient our players are and then turn around and blame the coach. Could Hurley do a better job. Yes. We have looked awful and some of that is on him. He has to own that. I just happen to think he doesn't have a lot to work with and I am willing to be patient. What is the alternative? You want to give him his walking papers after a year and change? We would be a bigger laughing stock than we are now. We clearly disagree about some things. Let's just leave it at that.
 
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Do you remember the time UConn beat Shaq with Rod Sellers at center? I do.

Stop blaming the players.
I didn't blame the players. Stop creating strawman.

I asked how much of the blame do they shoulder? Is it none? Because while that is nonsensical, it seems to be your argument.

Do you remember losing to Wagner and Northeastern to open the season? I do.
 
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Boy we can move the needle when it comes to Hurley .. oh wait til he get his guys, give him another year, they not strong enough or mentally ready (low iqs) .. we need to stop it, basketball is basketball, a coach puts his team in position to win, don’t matter what guys he has, what set are we running ? All I see is Gilbert dribbling top of the key ... just tired of seeing the same thing each night ... no way we should lose to south Florida
 
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After a few weeks to ponder these questions my truth is this: Hurley is not at this point a good coach and we do not have even AAC level talent aside from Bouk, Akok. And I’ll give Hurley a few seasons to grow into the role because it seems like he actually might be good at spotting players.

Thinking back to all these 4,5* “stud” recruits since 2013 how many do you recall thinking they would be special after seeing them play actual games? How many of them do you recall thinking they were seriously flawed and overrated right out of the gate? Until this year I cannot think of one that I would put in the former category.

There is a reason why our post Calhoun recruits are not making it to the league. Positionless, for sure. In that they cannot play any position well.

We have a few freshmen looking like they actually might be a threat on the court and we all went out of our minds for a few games. That is not an indication they will be All Americans. That is an indictment on what our recruiting had become.
 
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Boy we can move the goalpost when it comes to Hurley .. oh wait til he get his guys, give him another year, they not strong enough or mentally ready (low iqs) .. we need to stop it, basketball is basketball, a coach puts his team in position to win, don’t matter what guys he has, what set are we running ? All I see is Gilbert dribbling top of the key ... just tired of seeing the same thing each night ... no way we should lose to south Florida
FIFY
 
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Boy we can move the goalpost when it comes to Hurley .. oh wait til he get his guys, give him another year, they not strong enough or mentally ready (low iqs) .. we need to stop it, basketball is basketball, a coach puts his team in position to win, don’t matter what guys he has, what set are we running ? All I see is Gilbert dribbling top of the key ... just tired of seeing the same thing each night ... no way we should lose to south Florida
FIFY
 
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These are some laugh out loud funny posts blaming Hurley. We are a season and a half into his tenure and he's not a good coach? Haha
 
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Do you remember the time UConn beat Shaq with Rod Sellers at center? I do.

Stop blaming the players.
Nelson's going back 30 years now to continue his act, yikes.

Do you remember the time Miss State and Daryll Wilson beat UConn and Ray Allen? I do.

Stop blaming the players.
 
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We have too many players that aren’t mentally or physically tough enough.

This has been apparent for over 3 years.

But apparently that’s Hurley’s fault.

Hurley has been mediocre, but the players have been terribly inconsistent. That’s the one consistent thing about them. Feels like this team hasn’t strung together more than 2-3 good games in a row since 2014.
I'd say there is blame on the players there.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Nelson's going back 30 years now to continue his act, yikes.

Do you remember the time Miss State and Daryll Wilson beat UConn and Ray Allen? I do.

Stop blaming the players.
You don't even know what you are arguing now, do you?
 
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The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.
 
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The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.
The good players transferred.
 

HuskyHawk

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The notion that the KO players are irreversibly bad is false because Enoch, Durham and even Vance (especially last year) are having quality careers elsewhere.
No coach makes an 18 or 19 year old kid so bad after only 1-2 years of coaching that it can't be undone.

The players deserve some blame no doubt, but it is also Hurley's job to put them in a position to succeed. We blamed KO when his teams struggled, you have to hold Hurley to the same standard, you can't now say it's strictly a player issue.
Correct. And I can believe this and still believe that Dan Hurley is the right guy for the job. Right now I think he simply had a vision and the guys he has don't fit his vision. Is some of that on the players? Sure. AG is certainly not living up to his billing. Carlton got worse with the added weight. Polley hasn't learned to do anything but shoot, although I see more effort to rebound lately. Vital still does dumb stuff. Sid is an enigma.

But I feel comfortable blaming Hurley for the fact that Josh is the guy out catching passes beyond the line up top and handing the ball off or setting ineffective screens. It's a role he is unsuited to perform, more so now than last year. I can blame DH for Josh chasing his man way too far away from the basket. I can blame him for an offense that relies on ball screens and yet has no good screeners or guys who can create off of a ball screen. Scrap all three of those things and this team is better. I can blame him for overvaluing time outs and not stopping runs by the other team. I see our opponents calling those time outs immediately.

It's entirely fair to say that the upper classmen in particular are limited players. It's also fair to say that Hurley isn't getting the most out of them or putting them in positions that take advantage of what they do well and minimize what they do poorly.
 
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Correct. And I can believe this and still believe that Dan Hurley is the right guy for the job. Right now I think he simply had a vision and the guys he has don't fit his vision. Is some of that on the players? Sure. AG is certainly not living up to his billing. Carlton got worse with the added weight. Polley hasn't learned to do anything but shoot, although I see more effort to rebound lately. Vital still does dumb stuff. Sid is an enigma.

But I feel comfortable blaming Hurley for the fact that Josh is the guy out catching passes beyond the line up top and handing the ball off or setting ineffective screens. It's a role he is unsuited to perform, more so now than last year. I can blame DH for Josh chasing his man way too far away from the basket. I can blame him for an offense that relies on ball screens and yet has no good screeners or guys who can create off of a ball screen. Scrap all three of those things and this team is better. I can blame him for overvaluing time outs and not stopping runs by the other team. I see our opponents calling those time outs immediately.

It's entirely fair to say that the upper classmen in particular are limited players. It's also fair to say that Hurley isn't getting the most out of them or putting them in positions that take advantage of what they do well and minimize what they do poorly.
Agree 100%
 
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I'd say there is blame on the players there.
That's criticism. Valid criticism, IMO. Do you disagree that some lack physical and mental toughness? I can point to examples. Yes, they deserve some blame.

I also said Hurley has been mediocre.

I'll ask you the same question I asked @nelsonmuntz (which he didn't answer).

How much blame do the players have? Is it none? Do they have zero accountability for the way they perform?

The reality is they all share some blame. No accomplishment (or failure) by an organization or team, can be solely attributed to one person.
 
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Is it my fault that UConn got thumped by two mediocre to bad teams this week?
Are you talking about the Northeastern and Wagner games?

The difference between the 40th best team in the country and the 100th best team in the country is really small. It is, on average, five to ten plays a game. The talent level for these teams is really close, because the superstars are mostly on the Top 20 teams, and the talentless teams are getting their doors blown off. These teams are all capable of pulling the big upset, or getting picked off by the #200 team.

This is where coaching really matters. It is the difference between 21-11 and the NCAA's, and 17-15 and no tournament.
Unless your name is Kevin Ollie...

Ollie was a casualty of the conference debacle as much as anything, and I will not hold him completely responsible for UConn basketball's decline post-2014.
Strange because you're holding Hurley completely responsible for UConn's performance in the same conference with largely the same players.

NO UCONN COACH could have maintained any level of success in the AAC. This conference was going to destroy UConn athletics, and even though we are going back to the big time, it may be too late.
And yet here you are, blaming the coach (who definitely shares responsibility for the results) and refusing to even acknowledge that the players have ANY responsibility whatsoever. Instead you reference 1 game from the early 90s as evidence that Vital and Gilbert don't ever make bad decisions.
 

nelsonmuntz

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The players are what they are, and there is a range of outcomes their talent level can achieve this season. I think a tournament bid is on the upper end of that range, and maybe 6 wins in the AAC is on the lower end of that range.

UConn has shown flashes of playing to the upper end of that range, but last week they played to the lower end of the range.

I only BLAME the players when they quit, play selfishly, and/or stop playing hard. If the players are putting in the effort, then the rest is on the coach and fate.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Are you talking about the Northeastern and Wagner games?


Unless your name is Kevin Ollie...


Strange because you're holding Hurley completely responsible for UConn's performance in the same conference with largely the same players.



And yet here you are, blaming the coach (who definitely shares responsibility for the results) and refusing to even acknowledge that the players have ANY responsibility whatsoever. Instead you reference 1 game from the early 90s as evidence that Vital and Gilbert don't ever make bad decisions.

I am blaming Hurley for specific coaching mistakes he made against Cincinnati and USF, and to some extent, all season. I am not blaming Hurley for the outcomes.

Hurley was terrible in the Cincinnati game. It is the coaching equivalent of giving up 30 points on D and going 2 for 28 from the field with 15 turnovers.
 
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I am blaming Hurley for specific coaching mistakes he made against Cincinnati and USF, and to some extent, all season. I am not blaming Hurley for the outcomes.

Hurley was terrible in the Cincinnati game. It is the coaching equivalent of giving up 30 points on D and going 2 for 28 from the field with 15 turnovers.
Again, how much blame do the players get for their mistakes? Trying to get a benchmark.

When you dig your heels in, you make whatever debate is on the table a black and white issue. Anyone who disagrees (points out the gray area) is wrong. And instead of discussing the gray, you create strawmen. It doesn't foster discussion. It just makes you look like a douche.

If you only blame them for a lack of effort, you leave out the very important aspect of decision making (both on offense and defense).
 
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I went back and looked at the kids Ollie brought in that are still on the team vs kids Hurley brought in and compared rankings from 247:

Player(247 ranking)

Ollie kids
AG(32)
CV(166)
Polley(168)
Carlton(178)
Whaley(NR)
Wilson(89)

Hurley kids
Akok(92)
Bouk(66)
gaffney(105)
Adams(178)

Right now in terms of guys on the active roster you can clearly see a difference in level of player that Hurley is bringing in vs what was on the roster when he took over. The upperclassmen outside of AG and maybe Sid would not have ever been on any of the past UConn teams that were successful. If they were on those rosters I guarantee they would not be starters playing 30+ mins.

The kids Hurley are bringing in are clearly at a different level and once they get used to the college game things will start changing. I still think the future is bright and we just need to let the process continue. Its miserable right now watching us struggle but once you look at level of talent of the upperclassmen vs underclassmen it should not be a surprise.

Coming in next year we have:
Cole(NR): 25+scorer 1st years in college albeit at a lower rated conference
Jackson(71)
Javonte Brown Ferguson(131): reclass from 2021 so low rating is expected
Springs(160): another reclass up a year so lower rating is going to happen
 

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