How dumb is Xavier?
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huskyharry
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Little off target there, jleves...no excuse for what the Cincy players did but the Xavier players got physical first...their freshman forward pushed the Cincy player who was face-to-face with Holloway to the ground (blindsided him in fact) and then started throwing roundhouses at Cincy players (most of which missed) but all before Cincy's thuggery
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The tall skinny scrub from Cincy came right off the bench throwing roundhouses as soon as the Cincy player was shoved. He was pulled away, and two X guys went after him throwing punches as he was being restrained. I think Xavier is more responsible for there being an incident, but that scrub's actions were most responsible for it deteriorating into a brawl and not just pushing/shoving/jawing. And Gates basically took a cheap shot a stationary target who couldn't see it coming - just cowardly (not as cowardly as stomping on a guy on the ground). But if one of the X guys had landed a punch on the skinny scrub being restrained, they wouldve been equally cowardly, so that's just the product of results and not intention. And maybe it wouldve just been jawing without the Wells shove, and maybe nothing wouldve happened if Holloway doesn't try to spend the last 15 seconds shooting his mouth off like a punk. Pretty much no winners in this one.
It doesn't matter what he meant. Considering everything that got them to that point, it was simply time to be quiet and just give some "canned" responses to the questions he was being asked. There is simply a time to take some medicine and move on, instead they magnified things.
Idiots.
jleves
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Weird - I posted something that didn't show up. Basically, after reading comments and rewatching video and bits of the presser, I'm moving closer to 50/50 but I can't get all the way there. Xavier definitely lit the fuse with the two handed throw down, but it could have and should have turned to pushing and shoving waiting for your coaches and other players to pull you away. Instead is instantly escalated into not only throwing punches, but escaping your coaches to find another kid to hit. The head stomping was just ridiculous. There is a Xavier kid throwing punches in the corner, but he stops as soon as he is grabbed by players and coaches. The Cincy kids were looking for more. Bottom line, any team other than Cincy and this does not escalate to a bloody brawl, hence they deserve more than half the blame. I can go 65/35 or 60/40.
As to the original question - really stupid to have the kids up there in the first place. Even dumber to have not prepared them. Be contrite - apologize - feel remorse for a game ending like that. Maybe not call yourselves gangstas. Simple things....
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Remember though many of these are still immature kids, 2 years removed from high school with little or no PR training. They simply shouldn't have been on the podium. Talking tough is normal for kids with high testosterone and big egos, especially after a physical fight with a crosstown rival. I don't fully blame the kids, many don't know what the 'high road' is yet. Think also the emotions running through their system. It was pure posturing.
Not condoning their words or actions, but I do understand where they were coming from. Just a bad post game decision by Xaiver.
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Regardless of what he "meant," what he said has certain denotations and connotations that other words simply don't have. It's poor word choice, and, whether he meant it or not, it glorifies a pretty bad lifestyle, and one that brings suffering to all sorts of people.
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To piggyback off of this. Choosing a word like "gangsta" with its myriad meanings let's the media and others control the narrative more easily. Acting contrite and apologizing, less so.
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It happened at the same time. It was Xavier that made it more than two guys jawing by adding a second guy to it. He just steps in between them, or pulls his guy away, nothing happens.
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And then Cincy took it the next level with the skinny scrub flying off the bench throwing haymakers. So in order, I think we can go:
Step 1: Xavier's fault (Holloway talking smack to some nobody freshman all the way up the court) - opens the door for an incident
Step 2: Cincy's fault (the nobody freshman making contact with Holloway) - opens the door for the incident to get physical
Step 3: Xavier's fault (second guy in) - opens the door for everyone else to get involved
Step 4: Cincy's fault (crazy scrub throwing haymakers) - turns it from a possible pushing/shoving incident into total brawl
And then we get Yancy Gates and the stomper to put the cherry on the sundae, plus the two Xavier guys throwing punches at the skinny scrub, who was being restrained - if one of those landed, it would've been just as much a cheap shot as Yancy.
Step 1: Xavier's fault (Holloway talking smack to some nobody freshman all the way up the court) - opens the door for an incident
Step 2: Cincy's fault (the nobody freshman making contact with Holloway) - opens the door for the incident to get physical
Step 3: Xavier's fault (second guy in) - opens the door for everyone else to get involved
Step 4: Cincy's fault (crazy scrub throwing haymakers) - turns it from a possible pushing/shoving incident into total brawl
And then we get Yancy Gates and the stomper to put the cherry on the sundae, plus the two Xavier guys throwing punches at the skinny scrub, who was being restrained - if one of those landed, it would've been just as much a cheap shot as Yancy.
Fishy
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Xavier clearly took the 'let's dump the news during the football games' approach to announcing their (very light) suspensions.
One game for Holloway - why even pretend? Just make him skip dessert tonight and be done with it.
One game for Holloway - why even pretend? Just make him skip dessert tonight and be done with it.
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Well it only took Chris Mack about 24 hours to realize it wasn't such a good idea to let Holloway and Lyons talk to the media after the game.
"Tu Holloway was suspended because of his actions that precipitated the fight and his comments after," Mack said by phone from Cincinnati. "Lyons because he instigated things even though he had become a peacemaker in trying to settle Yancy Gates down.
"(Holloway) said they're not thugs, he was talking about toughness on the court but he did it in the wrong fashion and that's why he's going to sit," Mack said. "He didn't mean that our gang is going to beat up your gang. It was the wrong choice of words and it's a problem and our fault for putting them up there in the first place. It was 15 minutes after the game and we should have put two other guys up there, not two that were in the middle of it. We all made poor choices and have a lot of regret for it."
Mack said it was his fault that Holloway and Lyons were allowed to go to the news conference where they created more issues for themselves in discussing retaliation for comments and Holloway calling his team "gangsters," but not "thugs."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-suspend-four-players-brawl-xavier-musketeers
"Tu Holloway was suspended because of his actions that precipitated the fight and his comments after," Mack said by phone from Cincinnati. "Lyons because he instigated things even though he had become a peacemaker in trying to settle Yancy Gates down.
"(Holloway) said they're not thugs, he was talking about toughness on the court but he did it in the wrong fashion and that's why he's going to sit," Mack said. "He didn't mean that our gang is going to beat up your gang. It was the wrong choice of words and it's a problem and our fault for putting them up there in the first place. It was 15 minutes after the game and we should have put two other guys up there, not two that were in the middle of it. We all made poor choices and have a lot of regret for it."
Mack said it was his fault that Holloway and Lyons were allowed to go to the news conference where they created more issues for themselves in discussing retaliation for comments and Holloway calling his team "gangsters," but not "thugs."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...-suspend-four-players-brawl-xavier-musketeers
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