How did we Lose?????? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

How did we Lose??????

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tonyc said:
Lets look at the stats.

UConn shot 49% ND shot 47%

UConn made 5 more 2 pt baskets then ND which is 10 pts more then ND

UConn from 3 shot 38% ND from 3 shot 32%

UConn made 3 more baskets from 3 which is 9pts more then ND

UConn out rebounded ND by by 3

UConn had 3 players with 4 fouls ND had none

So from the field UConn out scores ND by 19 pts.

So how did we loose? Some may say we didnt drive to the basket enough, or we didnt defend ND going to the basket on dribble drives and some say we committed to many fouls. Well the refs call the fouls or dont call the fouls. When your in foul trouble you cant play defense and that is part of the reason for UConn allowing so many points to ND even by out scoring ND from the field by 19pts . For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual.

BTW I almost forgot ND did go to the line 17 times more then UConn. When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks.

So when nit pickin the team, Geno, the coaches, look at the stats. We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.
Expand ...
 
Sam.the.Man said:
You need to stop beating this dead horse. You're not better at evaluating talent than Geno and never will be. If he believes his bench players don't measure up and/or have the ability to play better than a starter with three or four fouls then what makes you think you're better qualified to make those decisions? How many D1 championships have you won?
Expand ...
I respectfully disagree with your response to Charlieball's post. There's a saying, I know you've heard it before...."past result does not guaranteed future success..." or something to that effect. Dynasties fall when they live on their past glories...always fighting the last war. Tennessee anyone? Geno is an amazing coach who put in place an offense that conquered Tennessee and most of WBB. The past two years have now shown that that offense can be neutralized or severely affected by teams with enterprising coaches and capable players. Maybe, just maybe that offense may need to be tweaked a little to account for that. Charlieball's and others suggestion that maybe incorporating iso-type plays with players who have individual shot creating abilities is what's needed. This does not denigrate Geno's past success, or indicate that they know more than Geno. We just do not want to go the way of Tennessee or past WBB dynasties who did not adopt to the changing times. If you disagree with his opinion, say so, that is what this board is about.
 
CocoHusky said:
I'm with you most times @Tonyc, but not with this one. ND won the stat that was most important, the score board, give ND credit. The amount of times a team fouls is definitely "controllable". I know this because UCONN routinely leads the nation in this stat. Not about to blame this loss on the refs.
Expand ...
The foul disparity is usually made up a bit by refs NOT this time !
 
.-.
Tonyc said:
Lets look at the stats.

UConn shot 49% ND shot 47%

UConn made 5 more 2 pt baskets then ND which is 10 pts more then ND

UConn from 3 shot 38% ND from 3 shot 32%

UConn made 3 more baskets from 3 which is 9pts more then ND

UConn out rebounded ND by by 3

UConn had 3 players with 4 fouls ND had none

So from the field UConn out scores ND by 19 pts.

So how did we loose? Some may say we didnt drive to the basket enough, or we didnt defend ND going to the basket on dribble drives and some say we committed to many fouls. Well the refs call the fouls or dont call the fouls. When your in foul trouble you cant play defense and that is part of the reason for UConn allowing so many points to ND even by out scoring ND from the field by 19pts . For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual.

BTW I almost forgot ND did go to the line 17 times more then UConn. When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks.

So when nit pickin the team, Geno, the coaches, look at the stats. We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.
Expand ...
Tony’s, you’re one of my favorite posters and I agree again with your assessment. However, as a UConn fan we are called to a higher standard. Be gracious. Be humble. Come back with a vengeance. #UconnBall
 
Charliebball said:
seems pretty clear that was Muffet's game plan and like it or not it worked......UConn makes one more basket and all is forgotten....
Expand ...
Muffet's game plan had nothing to do with UConn losing. The Huskies were on the verge of blowing them out then Geno sat Z at the start of the 3rd. O'Wale threw up some clutch shots that went in... ND didn't do anything to stop UConn from winning.
 
Tonyc said:
Lets look at the stats.

UConn shot 49% ND shot 47%

UConn made 5 more 2 pt baskets then ND which is 10 pts more then ND

UConn from 3 shot 38% ND from 3 shot 32%

UConn made 3 more baskets from 3 which is 9pts more then ND

UConn out rebounded ND by by 3

UConn had 3 players with 4 fouls ND had none

So from the field UConn out scores ND by 19 pts.

So how did we loose? Some may say we didnt drive to the basket enough, or we didnt defend ND going to the basket on dribble drives and some say we committed to many fouls. Well the refs call the fouls or dont call the fouls. When your in foul trouble you cant play defense and that is part of the reason for UConn allowing so many points to ND even by out scoring ND from the field by 19pts . For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual.

BTW I almost forgot ND did go to the line 17 times more then UConn. When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks.

So when nit pickin the team, Geno, the coaches, look at the stats. We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.
Expand ...
Good factual post. But keep in mind, the one category we lost to ND, that we could not control; they could not control either. It is not their fault the refs (for the sake of argument) favored their style of play. So, because of that and the obvious fact that they won the game, credit goes to ND. They really did play an outstanding game, and as your post shows, so did UConn. UConn just came up short.
 
Sluconn Husky said:
UConn hit some pretty big shots. Collier and Dangerfield's threes, for instance.

Notre Dame made far more mistakes. The bad pass that Nurse picked off for the tying layup. Shepherd fumbling the ball out of bounds giving UConn a chance to win in regulation. Ogunbowale's two missed free throws before Dangerfield's tying three. Somehow they still win.
Expand ...
great points
 
.-.
DaddyChoc said:
Muffet's game plan had nothing to do with UConn losing. The Huskies were on the verge of blowing them out then Geno sat Z at the start of the 3rd. O'Wale threw up some clutch shots that went in... ND didn't do anything to stop UConn from winning.
Expand ...

I thought ND played some pretty good defense especially towards the end of the game...............they also took the ball to the basket with authority far more then in the first meeting contributing to UConn's foul trouble...........that said, UConn certainly had it's opportunities to pull that game out.........
 
Sonny44 said:
How about we got beat by a better team, at least that day?
Expand ...
Correct, on that day.

Tony's post is, however, accurate (minus NOT giving credit to ND.) It would be the same as if the stats showed UConn marginally better in every category, accept, let's say, offensive rebounding, a clear credit to ND, in that case. His post emphasizes foul shot differential, which is not "clearly" a credit to ND.

BTW, while there are ways to control fouls (i.e playing zone, subbing) it requires a strategy change from the team and players, which may be detrimental to achieving a victory. I see his point. But I also think that at the end of the day, it is what it is, and a team has to come up with ways to overcome adversity. UConn did not, and ND for their part, had the talent and game plan to take advantage. ND earned the win.
 
Last edited:
AussieHusky said:
I respectfully disagree with your response to Charlieball's post. There's a saying, I know you've heard it before...."past result does not guaranteed future success..." or something to that effect. Dynasties fall when they live on their past glories...always fighting the last war. Tennessee anyone? Geno is an amazing coach who put in place an offense that conquered Tennessee and most of WBB. The past two years have now shown that that offense can be neutralized or severely affected by teams with enterprising coaches and capable players. Maybe, just maybe that offense may need to be tweaked a little to account for that. Charlieball's and others suggestion that maybe incorporating iso-type plays with players who have individual shot creating abilities is what's needed. This does not denigrate Geno's past success, or indicate that they know more than Geno. We just do not want to go the way of Tennessee or past WBB dynasties who did not adopt to the changing times. If you disagree with his opinion, say so, that is what this board is about.
Expand ...
Yes, everybody has got to adapt to succeed. Or adopt new techniques. Maybe just get looser, so they're not losers.
 
I agree with one of Charliebball's observations.....One of the things I observed that imo definitely impacted the game was that ND did a great deal of pushing the UConn offense off the 3pt line towards the later part of the game. ND got into the passing lanes and did a great job interrupting UConn's flow. UConn was developing too many plays late in the shot clock.....something you would normally see UConn doing to opponents. It requires discipline and skill...something I as a fan underestimated about ND abilities. I thought we would get that test from MS in the final.

I though ND controlled the later part of the game.....Baskets were easier for ND to come by than UConn.

UConn gambled with Jackie Young, and lost (big!)

ND was never rattled. Kudos to Coach McGraw.

Also, as another poster noted, I can't help but wonder if the power conferences are more of an advantage to teams like ND and Mississippi State. UConn plays a great out of conference schedule, but they don't get tested much in January and February when it matters most. UConn beats good teams early in the year...but I wonder if there is something of a "catch-up" effect as the season goes on.

Tonight should be a good game.
 
It seems that everybody is looking for the one thing or a few things that happened that allowed ND to walk away with the victory, but it really was a perfect storm much as last year was. Many people have made valid points and they don't necessarily negate what others have said. One basket made the difference.

One thing that just occurred to me--and which doesn't negate the other things said--is that perhaps the refs were ill disposed toward UConn subsequent to Mabrey being floored by Nurse. Perhaps it put it in the mind of the refs that UConn was going to play a particularly physical game and so they had better be prepared to call them tight. It may have seemed intentional that Nurse did what she did. That may have been the cause of the bad disposition toward UConn. It certainly didn't seem to me that UConn was fouling more than usual. And there were a few instances where it seemed to me the calls went to ND unjustifiably. KLS's offensive foul on the baseline, where she barely touched the defender and the defender sat down, was one. When Kia's hand got grabbed and arm pinned and the foul went against her was another. There was a least one more that has slipped my mind.

I recognize that some people think we should all just get over it, but I like to analyze things and apparently so do others.
 
.-.
Grad1990 said:
Also, as another poster noted, I can't help but wonder if the power conferences are more of an advantage to teams like ND and Mississippi State. UConn plays a great out of conference schedule, but they don't get tested much in January and February when it matters most. UConn beats good teams early in the year...but I wonder if there is something of a "catch-up" effect as the season goes on.
Expand ...

got no bigger than South Carolina and Louisville in Feb.
 
Roger G said:
Yes, everybody has got to adapt to succeed. Or adopt new techniques. Maybe just get looser, so they're not losers.
Expand ...
You got me there...lol! Yes, you adapt to new ways...or you adopt new ways...
Thanks for the wink and the nod!
 
CocoHusky said:
South Carolina, Louisville, & Texas were all games deliberately placed within the AAC regular season schedule.
Expand ...
even bigger than I thought... plus the AAC other top team, and tourney
 
So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how gassed Z seemed to be at the end of the first half, which might be why she didn't start the second half, to try to keep her fresh for the stretch run. But when she finally did get in the second half she seemed to tire quickly.
 
EasyEd said:
So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how gassed Z seemed to be at the end of the first half, which might be why she didn't start the second half, to try to keep her fresh for the stretch run. But when she finally did get in the second half she seemed to tire quickly.
Expand ...
possible... but suck it up!
 
.-.
I've said many times that WBB, both college and the WNBA have the worst refs of any college sport!
In the UCONN vs ND semi finals of the 2018 Final Four the chosen referees were, Jason Jones, Michael McConnell, and Karen Preato! WHO??????????
You would think that the Final Four would use the most experienced refs available. Where were: Dee Kantner, Lisa Mattingly, Bryan Enterline, Eric Brewton, Tom Danaher, Maj Forsberg, Cameron Inouye, Denise Brooks, or Tina Napier, among the most veteran officials! Referees that have worked the biggest games, that are familiar with the 2 teams and worked games going down to the last second! ND went to the line 23 times to UCONN's 6, if the veteran officials were working the game would the difference in the number of free throws have been different? Both teams got burned by bad ref calls! But UCONN got hurt worse by having 3 of their best players called for 4 fouls each, Gabby Williams, Kia Nurse, & Katie Lou Samuelson, which certainly affected their defensive style of play late in the game!
I think the inexperience of the chosen referees had something to do with the outcome!

All that being said, seeing how the final results worked out, with Notre Dame winning the Championship in a year where 4 players were out with ACL injuries, the games turned out that no matter what happened that ND was somehow destined to win! Joining many other sports teams that weren't given a chance to succeed but somehow came out on top! Fate took over and fixed the deck for the dark horse to pull it out!
 
Tonyc said:
For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual. . . . When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks . . . .
We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.
Expand ...
The argument that "we fouled at a much higher rate in the FF game than all year long, so the refs had it in for us" is irrational.
We were playing the eventual national champion. Of course you expect that they will force more fouls than will all of the less talented teams that we play during the year. Of course.
It happens all the time - the better, more aggressive team keeps pushing the pace, forcing the issue, and forcing the other team to either allow easy baskets, play great D, or foul.
Not only is this not an aberration - it's what should be expected. In fact, several posters on this board predicted it. Of course, they thought they were predicting a conspiracy, but what they were actually predicting was the obvious result when the "bad matchup for us" Notre Dame team played their aggressive style, forcing us out of our comfort zone, thereby making us more foul prone.
The reason that the prognosticators on this board knew what was coming was not because yet another set of 3 refs had been bought off and told to let the game go to OT and have UConn lose (LOL), but rather because different sets of refs are seeing the same thing - the ND style puts us on our heels, where we are not used to being, and results in us fouling more.
 
Sluconn Husky said:
I don't know what that means. UConn hit big shots. They just didn't keep Notre Dame off the line enough throughout the game to pull away.
Expand ...
I
I am suggesting that the answer lies in the last few seconds;

ND made the big shot .
Uconn did not ( Gabby missed ).

Those are the only shots that mattered.

We were ahead at the half. So what?

Get it?
 
schmendrick said:
We didn’t loose.

Would that we had, at least in the sense of “let loose.”

But we didn’t let loose. We played tentative for large stretches of the latter part of the game.

Which is why we lost. (Which is the past tense of lose.)

:rolleyes:
Expand ...

SCHMENDRICK: Nope. We played Notre Dame. And we played them for the entire game. Those are facts. Whether or not any of our players performed in a tentative fashion could be up for debate. Same for the topic of why we lost.

Sometimes the tone of messages like this one of yours seem to this observer to have an uncalled for tone of suggesting that other Yarders are not quite up to a certain standard . In this case, yours. Perhaps it's the significant procedure on dock for this afternoon or the aftermath of the loss, but this note kinda pissed me off.
 
I thought ND did two things well to keep them in the game.
1. Their defensive effort, particularly in the second half seem to kill the momentum from the first half. IDK, maybe halftime killed the momentum.
2. They made a determined effort to take it to the hole. Teams that do this to Uconn usually are in the game all the way and the results sometimes turn out negatively for the Huskies. See Stanford, 2014 and ND semi 2018. Since Stewie's and Kiah's departure, guarding the rim has been a struggle on the dribble drive for some good, athletic teams.
I think Geno stated that great teams make great plays. ND made the final great play. Credit Arike and her great shot in the final game.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,479
Messages
4,577,195
Members
10,488
Latest member
husky62


Top Bottom