How did we Lose??????

[AussieHusky]

Yes, everybody has got to adapt to succeed. Or adopt new techniques. Maybe just get looser, so they're not losers.

You got me there...lol! Yes, you adapt to new ways...or you adopt new ways...
Thanks for the wink and the nod!

 

[DaddyChoc]

South Carolina, Louisville, & Texas were all games deliberately placed within the AAC regular season schedule.

even bigger than I thought... plus the AAC other top team, and tourney

 

[EasyEd]

So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how gassed Z seemed to be at the end of the first half, which might be why she didn't start the second half, to try to keep her fresh for the stretch run. But when she finally did get in the second half she seemed to tire quickly.

 

[DaddyChoc]

So far I haven't heard anyone talk about how gassed Z seemed to be at the end of the first half, which might be why she didn't start the second half, to try to keep her fresh for the stretch run. But when she finally did get in the second half she seemed to tire quickly.

possible... but suck it up!

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I've said many times that WBB, both college and the WNBA have the worst refs of any college sport!
In the UCONN vs ND semi finals of the 2018 Final Four the chosen referees were, Jason Jones, Michael McConnell, and Karen Preato! WHO??????????
You would think that the Final Four would use the most experienced refs available. Where were: Dee Kantner, Lisa Mattingly, Bryan Enterline, Eric Brewton, Tom Danaher, Maj Forsberg, Cameron Inouye, Denise Brooks, or Tina Napier, among the most veteran officials! Referees that have worked the biggest games, that are familiar with the 2 teams and worked games going down to the last second! ND went to the line 23 times to UCONN's 6, if the veteran officials were working the game would the difference in the number of free throws have been different? Both teams got burned by bad ref calls! But UCONN got hurt worse by having 3 of their best players called for 4 fouls each, Gabby Williams, Kia Nurse, & Katie Lou Samuelson, which certainly affected their defensive style of play late in the game!
I think the inexperience of the chosen referees had something to do with the outcome!

All that being said, seeing how the final results worked out, with Notre Dame winning the Championship in a year where 4 players were out with ACL injuries, the games turned out that no matter what happened that ND was somehow destined to win! Joining many other sports teams that weren't given a chance to succeed but somehow came out on top! Fate took over and fixed the deck for the dark horse to pull it out!

 

[DALTX]

Some people just get too tight during a big game.

So, they weren't loose?

 

[MadDogRevival]

For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual. . . . When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks . . . .
We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.

The argument that "we fouled at a much higher rate in the FF game than all year long, so the refs had it in for us" is irrational.
We were playing the eventual national champion. Of course you expect that they will force more fouls than will all of the less talented teams that we play during the year. Of course.
It happens all the time - the better, more aggressive team keeps pushing the pace, forcing the issue, and forcing the other team to either allow easy baskets, play great D, or foul.
Not only is this not an aberration - it's what should be expected. In fact, several posters on this board predicted it. Of course, they thought they were predicting a conspiracy, but what they were actually predicting was the obvious result when the "bad matchup for us" Notre Dame team played their aggressive style, forcing us out of our comfort zone, thereby making us more foul prone.
The reason that the prognosticators on this board knew what was coming was not because yet another set of 3 refs had been bought off and told to let the game go to OT and have UConn lose (LOL), but rather because different sets of refs are seeing the same thing - the ND style puts us on our heels, where we are not used to being, and results in us fouling more.

 

[Longtime fan]

I don't know what that means. UConn hit big shots. They just didn't keep Notre Dame off the line enough throughout the game to pull away.

I
I am suggesting that the answer lies in the last few seconds;

ND made the big shot .
Uconn did not ( Gabby missed ).

Those are the only shots that mattered.

We were ahead at the half. So what?

Get it?

 

[winlots]

We didn’t loose.

Would that we had, at least in the sense of “let loose.”

But we didn’t let loose. We played tentative for large stretches of the latter part of the game.

Which is why we lost. (Which is the past tense of lose.)

SCHMENDRICK: Nope. We played Notre Dame. And we played them for the entire game. Those are facts. Whether or not any of our players performed in a tentative fashion could be up for debate. Same for the topic of why we lost.

Sometimes the tone of messages like this one of yours seem to this observer to have an uncalled for tone of suggesting that other Yarders are not quite up to a certain standard . In this case, yours. Perhaps it's the significant procedure on dock for this afternoon or the aftermath of the loss, but this note kinda pissed me off.

 

[Rixxx]

I thought ND did two things well to keep them in the game.
1. Their defensive effort, particularly in the second half seem to kill the momentum from the first half. IDK, maybe halftime killed the momentum.
2. They made a determined effort to take it to the hole. Teams that do this to Uconn usually are in the game all the way and the results sometimes turn out negatively for the Huskies. See Stanford, 2014 and ND semi 2018. Since Stewie's and Kiah's departure, guarding the rim has been a struggle on the dribble drive for some good, athletic teams.
I think Geno stated that great teams make great plays. ND made the final great play. Credit Arike and her great shot in the final game.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

I
I am suggesting that the answer lies in the last few seconds;

ND made the big shot .
Uconn did not ( Gabby missed ).

Those are the only shots that mattered.

We were ahead at the half. So what?

Get it?

Yes, you believe there were only two big shots taken in the game. I don't agree with that, and I also think that other things contributed to the loss far more. I don't blame Gabby Williams for missing a tough turnaround shot off glass. A better play call involving Stevens near the basket may have resulted in a victory.

 

[CTisballers]

Lets look at the stats.

UConn shot 49% ND shot 47%

UConn made 5 more 2 pt baskets then ND which is 10 pts more then ND

UConn from 3 shot 38% ND from 3 shot 32%

UConn made 3 more baskets from 3 which is 9pts more then ND

UConn out rebounded ND by by 3

UConn had 3 players with 4 fouls ND had none

So from the field UConn out scores ND by 19 pts.

So how did we loose? Some may say we didnt drive to the basket enough, or we didnt defend ND going to the basket on dribble drives and some say we committed to many fouls. Well the refs call the fouls or dont call the fouls. When your in foul trouble you cant play defense and that is part of the reason for UConn allowing so many points to ND even by out scoring ND from the field by 19pts . For a team that doesnt foul much 4 players in foul trouble in a big game is unusual.

BTW I almost forgot ND did go to the line 17 times more then UConn. When you beat from the field by 19 pts as UConn did and you loose it cant be all your fault and that only makes sense to look elsewhere for a reason why you lost. JMO and observations folks.

So when nit pickin the team, Geno, the coaches, look at the stats. We beat ND in every category we could control and lost in the one category we couldnt control.

Free throws and turnovers in crucial times in the game while ND made plays when was needed.

 

[DaddyChoc]

All that being said, seeing how the final results worked out, with Notre Dame winning the Championship in a year where 4 players were out with ACL injuries, the games turned out that no matter what happened that ND was somehow destined to win! Joining many other sports teams that weren't given a chance to succeed but somehow came out on top! Fate took over and fixed the deck for the dark horse to pull it out!

you're joking right? so Arika's shots went in using a magical basketball controlled by remote from the headquarters of the NCAA Officials?

 

[Bronx23]

I respectfully disagree with your response to Charlieball's post. There's a saying, I know you've heard it before...."past result does not guaranteed future success..." or something to that effect. Dynasties fall when they live on their past glories...always fighting the last war. Tennessee anyone? Geno is an amazing coach who put in place an offense that conquered Tennessee and most of WBB. The past two years have now shown that that offense can be neutralized or severely affected by teams with enterprising coaches and capable players. Maybe, just maybe that offense may need to be tweaked a little to account for that. Charlieball's and others suggestion that maybe incorporating iso-type plays with players who have individual shot creating abilities is what's needed. This does not denigrate Geno's past success, or indicate that they know more than Geno. We just do not want to go the way of Tennessee or past WBB dynasties who did not adopt to the changing times. If you disagree with his opinion, say so, that is what this board is about.

Excellent post and explanation!
Geno and the other coaches have NOT adapted to the adjustments other top teams with top coaches have done to U Conn.
His answer to starting AZ in the second half, when they started so poorly and AZ pretty much turned it around herself, shows a real blind spot. He didn't even give a thought to do so, is and of itself truly worrisome.
Almost all year a few others here and myself repeatedly commented on KLS getting lost offensively for minutes at a time and also in the few instances games were competitive. His offensive system which is a thing of beauty and one of the reasons I love U Conn women's basketball, did and does need some tweaking. They also need a player or two to have the offensive skill set and quickness to create offensively. I keep hearing repeatedly that he held MW back and she's now or will be the cats meow. I still question that. I think it might well be the freshman, CW who does the unthinkable and truly contributes as a freshman. My bet is on her starting at the off guard. I'd also like to see Ono get every chance possible to start and / or play many meaningful minutes. Oh my, oh my, two freshmen at one time. That would give us MW, Batouly, Kayla and maybe Coombs to come off the bench and get their opportunities to shine.
I also expect that Geno will have an excellent year coaching as I believe now much of the pressure is off.
If he doesn't adapt well (which will surprise me), the program will take a step or two back in wins, final fours reached and recruiting.
I hope and think, the coming year will be very exciting to be the ones doing the hunting, rather than be the hunted. Of course against most if not all of the top 6-8 programs, every other program would do almost anything to beat U Conn.
As upset and disappointed as I was ten days ago, I am now excitedly looking forward to next season and also seeing if any of the top recruits verbal, as I think today is the first day one can do so. Of course verbal is only that, verbal!
Bronx23

 

[Bronx23]

The argument that "we fouled at a much higher rate in the FF game than all year long, so the refs had it in for us" is irrational.
We were playing the eventual national champion. Of course you expect that they will force more fouls than will all of the less talented teams that we play during the year. Of course.
It happens all the time - the better, more aggressive team keeps pushing the pace, forcing the issue, and forcing the other team to either allow easy baskets, play great D, or foul.
Not only is this not an aberration - it's what should be expected. In fact, several posters on this board predicted it. Of course, they thought they were predicting a conspiracy, but what they were actually predicting was the obvious result when the "bad matchup for us" Notre Dame team played their aggressive style, forcing us out of our comfort zone, thereby making us more foul prone.
The reason that the prognosticators on this board knew what was coming was not because yet another set of 3 refs had been bought off and told to let the game go to OT and have UConn lose (LOL), but rather because different sets of refs are seeing the same thing - the ND style puts us on our heels, where we are not used to being, and results in us fouling more.

Wow some realism! And analysis without the whining about the refs. That path means the outcome is somewhat out of ones control, and that's not the message any really good coach wants to give their team. I haven't heard Geno make one comment about the refs changing the outcome. Of course there were some questionable calls and the stats don't sound right but when it's the other way around do any of you whiners even think that, let alone state it?
We started the game poorly as well as the 3rd Q and also the overtime. We made two miraculous comebacks, which ordinarily plays into and for the comeback team and we could never take control after the second period run. Which Geno messed up with his 3rd period starting lineup.
Plain and simple, ND wanted it more and went after it harder. Their players did just about everything MM prepared them to do. MM out coached Geno (and still would have even if we somehow won).
Even the truly greats need to continue to adjust and adapt and for two FF, Geno hasn't done this too well. I don't know squat in comparison to him, CD and the coaching staff, but I do know what I saw.
BY'ers it would be nice if we could be gracious losers and acknowledge the other team was better and more prepared on that night. We sound like obnoxious, entitled Tenn or Yankee (and I am one) or Red Sox fans. Swallow the loss, and let's go back to enjoying what we have, with a few tweaks, we can still be a regular FF participant with an occasional championship thrown in. Instead of looking at it as U Conns given right, enjoy or even SAVOR the great coaching and truly amazing young woman who've been here and those still here.
Bronx23

 

[Siestakeyfan]

I respectfully disagree with your response to Charlieball's post. There's a saying, I know you've heard it before...."past result does not guaranteed future success..." or something to that effect. Dynasties fall when they live on their past glories...always fighting the last war. Tennessee anyone? Geno is an amazing coach who put in place an offense that conquered Tennessee and most of WBB. The past two years have now shown that that offense can be neutralized or severely affected by teams with enterprising coaches and capable players. Maybe, just maybe that offense may need to be tweaked a little to account for that. Charlieball's and others suggestion that maybe incorporating iso-type plays with players who have individual shot creating abilities is what's needed. This does not denigrate Geno's past success, or indicate that they know more than Geno. We just do not want to go the way of Tennessee or past WBB dynasties who did not adopt to the changing times. If you disagree with his opinion, say so, that is what this board is about.

Geno welcomes copy cats to UCONN workouts MANY have come !

 

[Paesano]

The argument that "we fouled at a much higher rate in the FF game than all year long, so the refs had it in for us" is irrational.
We were playing the eventual national champion. Of course you expect that they will force more fouls than will all of the less talented teams that we play during the year. Of course.
It happens all the time - the better, more aggressive team keeps pushing the pace, forcing the issue, and forcing the other team to either allow easy baskets, play great D, or foul.
Not only is this not an aberration - it's what should be expected. In fact, several posters on this board predicted it. Of course, they thought they were predicting a conspiracy, but what they were actually predicting was the obvious result when the "bad matchup for us" Notre Dame team played their aggressive style, forcing us out of our comfort zone, thereby making us more foul prone.
The reason that the prognosticators on this board knew what was coming was not because yet another set of 3 refs had been bought off and told to let the game go to OT and have UConn lose (LOL), but rather because different sets of refs are seeing the same thing - the ND style puts us on our heels, where we are not used to being, and results in us fouling more.

Nice try but your logic is equally flawed. We played other top teams and didn't see this type of foul disparity. We beat ND without two of our best players. We outscored ND on the floor by 13. What was the line? Hmmm, very interesting! That line was in line with the best power ratings system on the planet. The refs took a 13 point better team and turned them into a 2 point loser. PERIOD! You know why ND is a bad matchup? Because they FOUL ON EVERY DRIVE!!! We lost the game. We didn't lose a basketball game. We lost a game that is not real basketball because basketball rules were not enforced. So, yeah, we can't beat ND in a game of whatever the hell THAT was called.

Look, I get some of you are pure basketball fans and don't want to believe the game is flawed. Sorry, it is flawed. Refs are human and biased. Deny it all you want but it is true. No system involving human judgment is without flaws. This one is no different. That might be unpleasant to accept but IT is REALITY!!!

 

[MadDogRevival]

Nice try . . . The refs took a 13 point better team and turned them into a 2 point loser. PERIOD!

Are you aware you're insane? I mean, as a fan?
In the 1st game, in CT at the XL center, Notre Dame was up 9 with 9 minutes left in the game?
With 3:54 left in the game, the game was a 1 point game.
Are you aware that Ogunbowale shot 1 of 10 from 3?
No way you can look at that game and claim UConn was a "13 point better team." That's homerism.
UConn won by 9, at home, early in the season, in a game they were losing by 9 in the 4th quarter, in a game they were tied with just under 4 minutes to go. In that game, ND shot 11 Frees to UConn's 18.
If anything, that early season game made it clear that ND was every bit as good as UConn, making the FF loss not shocking.

It's funny - 90% of UConn women's fans are more level headed and reasonable than their men's fans counterparts. But the 10% that aren't -

YEESH.

You act like toddlers throwing a tantrum with a "world out to get me" mentality if UConn loses.

 

[Paesano]

Are you aware you're insane? I mean, as a fan?
In the 1st game, in CT at the XL center, Notre Dame was up 9 with 9 minutes left in the game?
With 3:54 left in the game, the game was a 1 point game.
Are you aware that Ogunbowale shot 1 of 10 from 3?
No way you can look at that game and claim UConn was a "13 point better team." That's homerism.
UConn won by 9, at home, early in the season, in a game they were losing by 9 in the 4th quarter, in a game they were tied with just under 4 minutes to go. In that game, ND shot 11 Frees to UConn's 18.
If anything, that early season game made it clear that ND was every bit as good as UConn, making the FF loss not shocking.

It's funny - 90% of UConn women's fans are more level headed and reasonable than their men's fans counterparts. But the 10% that aren't -

YEESH.

You act like toddlers throwing a tantrum with a "world out to get me" mentality if UConn loses.

Yeah, it is so insane to think that not having two of our better players in that first game might have had an impact. ND is not as good as UConn. Period. UConn is coached by a superior coach and plays a superior brand of basketball. The only way ND wins this game is if the refs "let them play" which means the refs let them mug us and turn the game into a football game as much as a basketball game.

But, sure, let's look at that first game. We win, by 9, at home without our two best players. Home court advantage is 4 points. Also in that game, we shot 7 more FTs. MAGICALLY, we lose the semi-final game WITH all of our players and shot 17 fewer FTs. Do you see it? No? REALLY?!?!?!

Game 1: UConn is a 5 point better team, without two of its best players, and was +7 on FTAs
Game 2: UConn is a 2 point loser, with all of its best players, and was -17 on FTAs

How can you not see this? How did we suddenly become a fouling machine while ND, simultaneously, became so much better on D that they didn't need to foul any more? Because our girls suddenly forgot to drive? Really?

 

[polycom]

Yeah, it is so insane to think that not having two of our better players in that first game might have had an impact. ND is not as good as UConn. Period. UConn is coached by a superior coach and plays a superior brand of basketball. The only way ND wins this game is if the refs "let them play" which means the refs let them mug us and turn the game into a football game as much as a basketball game.

But, sure, let's look at that first game. We win, by 9, at home without our two best players. Home court advantage is 4 points. Also in that game, we shot 7 more FTs. MAGICALLY, we lose the semi-final game WITH all of our players and shot 17 fewer FTs. Do you see it? No? REALLY?!?!?!

Game 1: UConn is a 5 point better team, without two of its best players, and was +7 on FTAs
Game 2: UConn is a 2 point loser, with all of its best players, and was -17 on FTAs

How can you not see this? How did we suddenly become a fouling machine while ND, simultaneously, became so much better on D that they didn't need to foul any more? Because our girls suddenly forgot to drive? Really?

Part of winning is adjusting to how the game is being officiated...

 

[Paesano]

Part of winning is adjusting to how the game is being officiated...

Part of officiating is enforcing all of the rules of the game. Wait ALL of officiating is that. Hmmmm.

 

[hugefan]

You cannot adjust when the refs don’t call the same calls, there is nothing to adjust to, especially when you don’t move and you get called for a foul. What do you suggest standing still the whole game, oh wait we still got called for standing still as a ND player ran in to us.

 

[BostonCanuck]

Of course, one issue arising from all these fouls is that ND smartly attacked the rim. In the later stages of the game, they drove hard to the paint several times and achieved four easy layups. One of those was due to a bad defensive breakdown by Z. But the other three were because Lou and Gabby had four fouls each and didn't really defend.

Now normally when the coach plays someone with four fouls, the tendency is for that player to lighten up on defense because they don't want to foul out.

However in this case, the Final Four when it's win or go home, late in the game, with the score almost even, I would strongly argue that a different approach is needed. In that situation, a player must continue to play the toughest defense possible, even at the risk of sacrificing herself and fouling out of the game. You'll see that both Lou and Gabby clearly did not approach it that way. I wonder if Geno mentioned anything about it during the proximate timeouts and team huddles? He did call a timeout right after it happened to Lou for the second time (but before it happened to Gabby in overtime).

Ironically, McCowan did exactly that, deliberately fouling to prevent a ND breakaway very late in the championship game, even though it meant picking up her fifth to foul out. Rebecca called it out at the time as an excellent, game-saving play.

 

[hugefan]

Ironically we drove to get an easy lay up for Z and the ref called a charge when the ND player was out of bound .......

 

[Tonyc]

There are alot of fans in this thread who have made some very good points however UConn had 3 starters with 4 fouls ND none. There ND could play aggressive because UConn could not take a chance on fouling out. This just doesnt happen until the FF and thus UConn fought and continued to make come backs but when you cant play defense on dribble drives and have to let opponents have the lane its almost impossible to win Thats what hurt UConn. It is unfortunate but the refs called it that way. I wouldve liked to see Z play more she was terrific but I would expect the same thing to happen to her foul trouble. I watched SNY special last nite about UConns season and I have to tell you I disagree with some of what was said. If UConn didnt have 3 starters with 4 fouls or UConn had a more dependable bench imo UConn most likely wouldve won. Its a damm shame for a team that doesnt get into foul trouble.