Holly Warlick's "Over The Top" RX To Loss | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Holly Warlick's "Over The Top" RX To Loss

I am not one who delights in all the TN struggles. IMO WBB would be better off with a dominant TN program. I feel a sense of sorrow at how far they have fallen and would like to see them return to a level of dominance and then to CRUSH THEM IN THE FINALS EVERY YEAR! truth
 
She's not talking about "the crap thrown at them," she's talking about the crap being thrown at her. She feels that she doesn't deserve the criticism. And if she, the head coach, believes it's just a basketball game, then perhaps it's time for her to move on. Her excuses show that she doesn't know what to do, doesn't have any clue how to take all of this talent and mold it into a top-flight team that can win in the tournament.

Let's recall that she had the top HS player in the nation and freshman of the year. Yet she couldn't deal with that head case and meld her into a team player. Now she's had one of the top bigs in the nation for four years, plus three of the most talented freshmen, yet couldn't win in the second round of the tournament.

Tennessee management have to be looking at Oregon State, which beat them, and wondering why that nouveau riche basketball program is beating Tennessee, while Tennessee, with all of their funds and recruiting prowess, is so uneven.

I'm guessing that the answers to those questions will at least begin with the head coach. Holly's had six full years, plus a year's apprenticeship as de facto coach while Summit was fading. Yet the results have been declining.

I wouldn't want to be anyone at Tennessee right now.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
Totally with you on that. Under Holly's "tutelage" they have no chance to be all that they can be. Holly threw them under the bus by suggesting the unfair criticism from unnameds out there put too much pressure on "her kids." It's an attempted evasion , trying to draw attetion away from her abject failures as a coach, year over year.
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Quite true, unfortunately.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
Gotta disagree. She isn't clueless. She's dumb, but she knows her days in the sunshine are about up. Still, she's trying to keep her head above water by standing on the shoulders of her players. She's blubbering in that presser for herself.
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Agreed. Pitiful. Such victims.
 
I think Holly is a career follower and was probably a really good assistant coach, but has not a clue as a head coach of how to teach players or coach on the sideline. And whether it is that she has no clue how to hire assistant coaches or she has no clue how to empower them, the assistant coaches have done nothing for the players either. It reminds me of my working career when I would often deal with really stupid mid-level executives and inevitably their assistants would prove to be even dumber as if they were worried to hire competent people who might expose their incompetence.

It has amazed me that in the last six years, no one on the TN staff seems to have a clue of how to play against a zone defense (it probably dates back much earlier, but I didn't notice it and I am not going back to check!) or at least has not been able to instill the fundamentals of zone offense to those teams. This is not dissimilar to Pat going to Harry to learn motion offense and then never really installing it, falling back on the chuck it and rebound that she was happy with. In both cases it comes down to TN getting by on superior athletes and stars, and when they come up against seriously coached teams that have good enough players they are in trouble.

While this whine from Holly is pretty bad, the one thing I think is probably true about it is that the TN message boards can be pretty terrible about specific players and that stuff is not being moderated out. If she has seen what does get posted (and I am sure stuff on twitter is likely no better) then complaining and defending players is not out of line - just a lot better to do it after a good win and not post-game of a disappointing season ending loss.
 
willtalk said:
It should be obvious to everyone that she is projecting her own self onto her players. It is not the criticism of her players she is commenting on but the criticism of herself. Very few people criticize her players personally. They just comment on their lack of development and that is in reality actually a criticism of her. Pretty disingenuous and cowardly of her to use her players as a cover and excuse to deflect criticism actually directed at her.
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You hit the nail on the head. That's the first thing that popped into my head once I saw her presser. Extremely transparent and extremely disingenuous; it's sad. She's only deceiving herself.
 
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UcMiami said:
While this whine from Holly is pretty bad, the one thing I think is probably true about it is that the TN message boards can be pretty terrible about specific players and that stuff is not being moderated out. If she has seen what does get posted (and I am sure stuff on twitter is likely no better) then complaining and defending players is not out of line - just a lot better to do it after a good win and not post-game of a disappointing season ending loss.
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Well Maria Cornelius has her back as usual. Lady Vols bow out of NCAA tourney
 
As has been said many times, WCBB has past Tennessee by. The game has past Tennessee by. The chuck and rebound offense of years ago no longer works. Just look at teams like Oregon State, Oregon, ND, Buffalo or Central Michigan. Even our own Quinnipiac. Great ball movement, screens, back door cuts and pick and rolls. All these teams can play against man to man and/ or zones defenses. All those are conspicuously absent from Tennessee's offense.

Its all on Holly's shoulders. Unless there is a complete change in basketball philosophy, Tennessee will remain what it is - a second level team.
 
huskeynut said:
As has been said many times, WCBB has past Tennessee by. The game has past Tennessee by. The chuck and rebound offense of years ago no longer works. Just look at teams like Oregon State, Oregon, ND, Buffalo or Central Michigan. Even our own Quinnipiac. Great ball movement, screens, back door cuts and pick and rolls. All these teams can play against man to man and/ or zones defenses. All those are conspicuously absent from Tennessee's offense.

Its all on Holly's shoulders. Unless there is a complete change in basketball philosophy, Tennessee will remain what it is - a second level team.
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Couldn't agree more with this post. Oregon State was just more of a fundamentally sound basketball team, that actually ran a variety of offensive sets, and, defenses. Rueck adjusted on the fly when he needed to during the course of the game. I feel bad for the Tennessee athletes. One thing I observed was how animated (not in a good way) Holly is on the sidelines. Didn't project confidence. In contrast, watching Rueck's demeanor on the sideline, it was a calmness, and, gave confidence to his OSU players.
 
JordyG said:
At least you're reveling in Holly's (much deserved) agony. Perhaps the institutions as well as the fans agony ( I particularly enjoy that part). But relishing the agony of these young women that play for Tenn, as some on this site do, is where I will forever draw the line. Somehow demonizing this very human, great young women; these great young players, great representatives of their communities and families, I find reprehensible.
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You have no concept of what the University of Tennessee is. Until you do, it would be nice if you didn't chastise those that do. :mad:
 
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Post copied from Orange Mt Designs:

from POST FROM MICHELLE MARCINIAK:

Ok so it's been 4 hours and I have some words, not many but some as it relates to our #ladyvols.

I was a player, so was Abby and Pashen and Tamika and Semeka and Chamique and Candice and Dawn and Shelley and Lisa and Pam and and and......

And I'm sorry but you just can't blame this on the coach. Players play. Players make plays. Players win games. Players make free throws or they don't. Players are on the court. Players are in control. Players contest shots. Players get defensive stops. Players make or cause turnovers. Players take charges or punk out and don't sacrifice their bodies to do so. Players hit chippies or they don't. Players dive after loose balls or they choose not to. Players are taught by their leaders, their coaches and I cannot stress enough the experience of this staff who is coaching these kids....is beyond what any other program can ask for. The grass is NOT greener on the other side folks. Players need to mature. Players need to value winning. Players need to feel the pain. So the next time when pain is looming, it feels different and therefore they will get a different outcome. I really don't care if some fans don't agree with what I am saying but we have great players and great players need to step up as they always have in the TN program. Onus is on the players. I will remind everyone that in 1996, we were 5 years without a Championship and Pat was as stressed as anyone EVER. She put the blame ON US to win. Mark my word, it was ours to win or not. So please before you throw a baby out with the bathwater in blaming Holly, just remember it's a journey, not a sprint. In today's Me first, Video game reset world, everyone wants to get rid of the coach and think it will make it all right. Not so people. Holly is a Pat's protege. She's got her blue print mapped in her body, soul and mind. You won't get any better, any closer to Pat than Holly. I'd like everyone to think about this post as we tend not to blame the players only the coaches. Trust me, Pat blamed us and held us responsible. Time for the players to own up. Whether anyone likes to read this or not, it's true and you can't argue it because I have been there and done that. 18 to 21 year olds are adults.

Thank You Michelle MARCINIAK...for well spoken message! Blessings!
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
Some say the Heir Apparent. Hope so. He's done such a great job with Russel.

21314621_1924783904453095_6020692948860246342_n.jpg


Fire a legacy, hire one more.
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But, but I'm confused; there's no hair apparent here.
 
I think if you look at the last couple of national championship teams. The point guard play was key. Bobbitt and Jolly were both playing at a high level. Now Westbrook was a freshman this year. Tough for a freshman. She had some ups and downs. I expect her game to improve a good bit. Now she has a year of playing and a off-season to get better. I think both Westbrook and Hayes have the ability to lead their team to a FF.
 
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stwainfan said:
Post copied from Orange Mt Designs:

from POST FROM MICHELLE MARCINIAK:

Ok so it's been 4 hours and I have some words, not many but some as it relates to our #ladyvols.

I was a player, so was Abby and Pashen and Tamika and Semeka and Chamique and Candice and Dawn and Shelley and Lisa and Pam and and and.

And I'm sorry but you just can't blame this on the coach. Players play. Players make plays. Players win games. Players make free throws or they don't. Players are on the court. Players are in control. Players contest shots. Players get defensive stops. Players make or cause turnovers. Players take charges or punk out and don't sacrifice their bodies to do so. Players hit chippies or they don't. Players dive after loose balls or they choose not to. Players are taught by their leaders, their coaches and I cannot stress enough the experience of this staff who is coaching these kids....is beyond what any other program can ask for. The grass is NOT greener on the other side folks. Players need to mature. Players need to value winning. Players need to feel the pain. So the next time when pain is looming, it feels different and therefore they will get a different outcome. I really don't care if some fans don't agree with what I am saying but we have great players and great players need to step up as they always have in the TN program. Onus is on the players. I will remind everyone that in 1996, we were 5 years without a Championship and Pat was as stressed as anyone EVER. She put the blame ON US to win. Mark my word, it was ours to win or not. So please before you throw a baby out with the bathwater in blaming Holly, just remember it's a journey, not a sprint. In today's Me first, Video game reset world, everyone wants to get rid of the coach and think it will make it all right. Not so people. Holly is a Pat's protege. She's got her blue print mapped in her body, soul and mind. You won't get any better, any closer to Pat than Holly. I'd like everyone to think about this post as we tend not to blame the players only the coaches. Trust me, Pat blamed us and held us responsible. Time for the players to own up. Whether anyone likes to read this or not, it's true and you can't argue it because I have been there and done that. 18 to 21 year olds are adults.

Thank You Michelle MARCINIAK...for well spoken message! Blessings!
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Oh, I like that. Yep, not Warlick's fault. It's on the players. Should be giving Warlick a lifetime contract. :D
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
Well Maria Cornelius has her back as usual. Lady Vols bow out of NCAA tourney
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Coaches Warlick and Lockwood made no mention of the officiating, but Maria talks of Mercedes being consistently hacked with no calls.... It was interesting hearing Dean's take on things... usually do not hear from him.... he talks a good game... but of course he does not rule the roost.... he talks about Tennessee needing to be tougher and show more effort.... they have lacked that for the last few years.... I have seldom seen them play a full 40 minutes of tough basketball.... parts of games yes... but it has to be a full throttle effort if they are to compete at the highest level... TN needs to figure out how to build a fluid team.... work on fundamentals... and drawing the potential out of its players.... Too many of them are graduating with their music left in them.
 
stwainfan said:
I think if you look at the last couple of national championship teams. The point guard play was key. Bobbitt and Jolly were both playing at a high level. Now Westbrook was a freshman this year. Tough for a freshman. She had some ups and downs. I expect her game to improve a good bit. Now she has a year of playing and a off-season to get better. I think both Westbrook and Hayes have the ability to lead their team to a FF.
Expand ...
Stwainfan, I have never seen such a loyal fan as you. Kudos to you for your steadfastness. But have you never noticed how awful the offense is? If the opponent goes into a zone, the LVs don’t have the first idea of what to do. The players also seen incapable of creating their own shots so the product on the floor looks like some kind of team put together for a pick up game. How do you not see that? Unless the LVs get a new coach, this team will never see a Final Four, no matter how talented the team is.
 
stwainfan said:
Post copied from Orange Mt Designs:

from POST FROM MICHELLE MARCINIAK:

Ok so it's been 4 hours and I have some words, not many but some as it relates to our #ladyvols.

I was a player, so was Abby and Pashen and Tamika and Semeka and Chamique and Candice and Dawn and Shelley and Lisa and Pam and and and.

And I'm sorry but you just can't blame this on the coach. Players play. Players make plays. Players win games. Players make free throws or they don't. Players are on the court. Players are in control. Players contest shots. Players get defensive stops. Players make or cause turnovers. Players take charges or punk out and don't sacrifice their bodies to do so. Players hit chippies or they don't. Players dive after loose balls or they choose not to. Players are taught by their leaders, their coaches and I cannot stress enough the experience of this staff who is coaching these kids....is beyond what any other program can ask for. The grass is NOT greener on the other side folks. Players need to mature. Players need to value winning. Players need to feel the pain. So the next time when pain is looming, it feels different and therefore they will get a different outcome. I really don't care if some fans don't agree with what I am saying but we have great players and great players need to step up as they always have in the TN program. Onus is on the players. I will remind everyone that in 1996, we were 5 years without a Championship and Pat was as stressed as anyone EVER. She put the blame ON US to win. Mark my word, it was ours to win or not. So please before you throw a baby out with the bathwater in blaming Holly, just remember it's a journey, not a sprint. In today's Me first, Video game reset world, everyone wants to get rid of the coach and think it will make it all right. Not so people. Holly is a Pat's protege. She's got her blue print mapped in her body, soul and mind. You won't get any better, any closer to Pat than Holly. I'd like everyone to think about this post as we tend not to blame the players only the coaches. Trust me, Pat blamed us and held us responsible. Time for the players to own up. Whether anyone likes to read this or not, it's true and you can't argue it because I have been there and done that. 18 to 21 year olds are adults.

Thank You Michelle MARCINIAK...for well spoken message! Blessings!
Expand ...

If I understand this correctly, MARCINIAK says "I'm sorry but you can't blame this on the coach." and puts it all on the "Players".

From the post game presser Holly goes about protecting her players with the now infamous quotes.

“Sometimes the things that are thrown at these kids are unfair,” an emotional Warlick said. “They come here wanting to learn and get better and just play the game. They get criticized quite a bit."

Later she added: "This isn't about winning or losing. It's about young ladies getting better on and off the court and I don't think they deserve half the crap thrown at them."

Has MARCINIAK basically "criticized" and thrown "half the crap" at the players?
 
Bayareahusky said:
Coaches Warlick and Lockwood made no mention of the officiating, but Maria talks of Mercedes being consistently hacked with no calls.... It was interesting hearing Dean's take on things... usually do not hear from him.... he talks a good game... but of course he does not rule the roost.... he talks about Tennessee needing to be tougher and show more effort.... they have lacked that for the last few years.... I have seldom seen them play a full 40 minutes of tough basketball.... parts of games yes... but it has to be a full throttle effort if they are to compete at the highest level... TN needs to figure out how to build a fluid team.... work on fundamentals... and drawing the potential out of its players.... Too many of them are graduating with their music left in them.
Expand ...
I was on the Baylor blog site, and there was a Tennessee poster who could not believe: 1. How bad the officiating was against Tennessee in the OSU game, and 2. OSU players were DIRTY? I have never heard anyone accuse OSU Players as DIRTY. That was a 1st.
 
.-.
HuskyNan said:
Stwainfan, I have never seen such a loyal fan as you. Kudos to you for your steadfastness. But have you never noticed how awful the offense is? If the opponent goes into a zone, the LVs don’t have the first idea of what to do. The players also seen incapable of creating their own shots so the product on the floor looks like some kind of team put together for a pick up game. How do you not see that? Unless the LVs get a new coach, this team will never see a Final Four, no matter how talented the team is.
Expand ...
Thanks. Freshman year is difficult. It's a learning experience. All freshman go though ups and downs. The point guard position is the most important position. I think both players will improve a lot next season. I think One thing this team lacked was there were three seniors. Then relied on three freshman. There wasn't much in between.
 
mbr33ct said:
If I understand this correctly, MARCINIAK says "I'm sorry but you can't blame this on the coach." and puts it all on the "Players".

From the post game presser Holly goes about protecting her players with the now infamous quotes.

“Sometimes the things that are thrown at these kids are unfair,” an emotional Warlick said. “They come here wanting to learn and get better and just play the game. They get criticized quite a bit."

Later she added: "This isn't about winning or losing. It's about young ladies getting better on and off the court and I don't think they deserve half the crap thrown at them."

Has MARCINIAK basically "criticized" and thrown "half the crap" at the players?
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Holly doesn't go play defense or take a shot. There was something Pat used to say. It's better to be a player led team than a coach led team. Meaning the players have to go and do it.
 
river rat said:
We may be seeing out future..... When Geno leaves
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I doubt that. Geno will have imput and he certainly does not appear to be someone swayed by nepotism like Pat was with Holly.
 
j66kicker said:
...and she blames the refs: 23 free throws for OSU to 10 for TN. Plus all those unwhistled moving screens and push offs. (How can this happen on the Ladyvol home court??)
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What was interesting is that the assistant coach for Tennessee focused on "toughness" needs to improve at Tennessee. OSU plays tough defense, and, you have to in the NCAA Tournament, or you are going home. Tennessee has great athletes, they just need to be schooled in a system that teaches them how to play defense (individually, but mostly as a team), and the level of physicality required in the NCAA Tournament.
 
stwainfan said:
I think if you look at the last couple of national championship teams. The point guard play was key. Bobbitt and Jolly were both playing at a high level. Now Westbrook was a freshman this year. Tough for a freshman. She had some ups and downs. I expect her game to improve a good bit. Now she has a year of playing and a off-season to get better. I think both Westbrook and Hayes have the ability to lead their team to a FF.
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Transfer now...run as fast as you can..there are plenty of great college programs to be found.
 
Yes the players have to do all those things starting with taking responsibility.
But it's also true that coaching matters. Pat was the greatest coach during her era or at least til the later parts of her era. The strength and force of her personality helped will her players to success. I'm not sure her style of play works as well as it used to. As many others have pointed out, getting the best players and throwing it up there and either making them or getting offensive rebounds because your players are bigger and stronger, no longer as workable.
Holly can't change her style, ways and trying to be Pat! #1 she is not Pat and you can't be what you're not! #2 while Pat would do better clearly with these same players, she wouldn't be as successful now with the U Conn style of play becoming more prevalent of ball movement and sharing it!
Also the better teams are no longer intimidated, nor should they be, of Tenn! Many still are of U Conn!
Holly needs to go immediately and obviously has a booster in high places. Obviously they care more about her being Pat's 2nd hand or mentee than being a top notch program. She can recruit but not coach, and you need to do both!
Bronx23
 
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