HOF - Ray?

[CardiacAndre7]

Hyperbole much?!?? Hill was a great player and injuries hampered him but top 15 all-time, the NBA has had so many legendary players.

Michael, Magic, Jabbar, Wilt, Lebron, Bird, Russell, Olajuwan, Oscar, Dr. J, Duncan, Shaq, Moses, Pettit, Kobe, Dirk, West, Robinson, Malone, Hayes, Barkley, Gervin, Drexler, Wade, Stockton, Ewing, Curry, Rick Barry and others all say hi.

Yeah as you can see I said “In the conversation”. And if he did have a fully healthy career I would take him over a few guys you listed.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Ray isn’t a nice guy? First of all, when he was in college, he was. Second, that’s not what this is voting on. Third, it’s not even like we’re dealing with anyone who is close to Christian Laettner levels of tooldom...

Who cares?

Nice guy was the wrong choice of words. Maybe too persnickety? We know Ray Allen is a great human being and ambassador for UConn. We also know he had a rep as locker room lawyer and way overblown feud with Rondo, Garnett etc.. Its simply in contrast to Grant Hill that I know less about but is extremely camera (family legacy) and media friendly. In sum slightly higher Q rating for Hill.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Don't get me started on Chris Webber (like him as an analyst and doing games for TNT - seems like a cool guy) - but he should difinately not get in over Ray.

No he shouldnt but he has a better case than GH. CW had some great seasons and even made Sacxcremento relevant for a short time. I believe in 2000 when Sac was trying to challenge the lakers CW was a top mvp finalist and averaged nearly 30 and 12. He was awesome that season.

 

[Dogdeacon]

No he shouldnt but he has a better case than GH. CW had some great seasons and even made Sacxcremento relevant for a short time. I believe in 2000 when Sac was trying to challenge the lakers CW was a top mvp finalist and averaged nearly 30 and 12. He was awesome that season.

Exactly & CWebb has equal or better college bona fides vs Hill. Hill among top NBA players ever is crazy talk. Other than the being the only player to win his first playoff series FIFTEEN YEARS into his NBA career, there isn't a noteworthy playoff moment for Grant Hill ever.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Exactly & CWebb has equal or better college bona fides vs Hill. Hill among top NBA players ever is crazy talk. Other than the being the only player to win his first playoff series FIFTEEN YEARS into his NBA career, there isn't a noteworthy playoff moment for Grant Hill ever.

I took a look at GHs #s and in his first 5 seasons he was really good. In his 6th season he put up some great numbers and that couldve been the start of something special but he got injured and the rest is history. I think people are looking back on him and judging what he couldve been rather than what he was. I know its the basketball HOF but he just didnt do enough as a pro to warrant induction especially not over someone like Ray if in fact Ray doesnt get in this year and GH does. I cant imagine that happening. If so there has to be somebody holding a grudge. Possibly for the way he left Boston.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

College team results? Maybe, but then Ray's NBA team results should equalize.
Ray's 3yr college stats are superior to Hill's 4 years. And Hill obviously had more help on his wins/early squads with his 3/4 FF being with Hurley & Laettner (MVPs). My eye test and stats below certainly don't tell me that Grant Hill was a HOF/superior college basketball player vs Ray:
Ray 19.0PPG, 6.0Reb, 2.4A, 1.6S, .4 Blocks, 1.9TO, .487FG%, .4483pt%, 520-3's, 1,922pts (3 years)
Hill 14.9PPG, 6.0Reb, 3.6A, 1.7S, 1.0Blocks, 2.5TO, 532FG%, .3763pt%, 117-3's, 1,924 pts (4 years)

The case for Grant Hill as a first ballot no brainer boils down to he's a nice guy and he would have had a better career if he didn't get hurt and because he's a nice guy we feel better about ourselves by trying to make up for the injury.

No it doesn't. As someone already pointed out, in the Basketball HOF he is a no brainer based on his college career alone. In a hypothetical NBA HOF, which is located next to Hogwarts, he would not stand a chance.

 

[whaler11]

Also a first ballot entry into the catfish HOF.

 

[superjohn]

No it doesn't. As someone already pointed out, in the Basketball HOF he is a no brainer based on his college career alone. In a hypothetical NBA HOF, which is located next to Hogwarts, he would not stand a chance.

Based on his college career alone Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer? Where do you people come up with this stuff.

If Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer just based off of his college career then Shabazz is also a shoo-in.

 

[superjohn]

At least Whaler is deleting his stupid basketball takes now.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Based on his college career alone Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer? Where do you people come up with this stuff.

If Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer just based off of his college career then Shabazz is also a shoo-in.

Yeah for forks sake, he didn't even win a final four MOP or a Naismith. This is what I'm talking about though, his Q rating is some damn high people see the smile, the NFL dad, the mom, the Dook uni and BOOM he had the greatest perceived college career since Bill Walton.

Hill doesn't even make this guy's top 50 (based on NCAA > NBA premise)!!
Khalid at 22 with a bullet
The 50 Greatest College Basketball Players of All Time

 

[whaler11]

At least Whaler is deleting his stupid basketball takes now.

No I don’t want to waste time arguing with a psychopath on a topic (the hof) that I don’t care about at all.

You must be like 15 though if you don’t comprehend how good Grant Hill was in college.

 

[whaler11]

Yeah for forks sake, he didn't even win a final four MOP or a Naismith. This is what I'm talking about though, his Q rating is some damn high people see the smile, the NFL dad, the mom, the Dook uni and BOOM he had the greatest perceived college career since Bill Walton.

Hill doesn't even make this guy's top 50 (based on NCAA > NBA premise)!!
Khalid at 22 with a bullet
The 50 Greatest College Basketball Players of All Time

You didn’t read the criteria did you?

 

[superjohn]

Yeah for forks sake, he didn't even win a final four MOP or a Naismith. This is what I'm talking about though, his Q rating is some damn high people see the smile, the NFL dad, the mom, the Dook uni and BOOM he had the greatest perceived college career since Bill Walton.

Hill doesn't even make this guy's top 50 (based on NCAA > NBA premise)!!
Khalid at 22 with a bullet
The 50 Greatest College Basketball Players of All Time

Lol, see Whaler's post. Grant Hill was a great player who made a really smart decision in deciding to join Christian Laettner and Bobby Hurley at Duke.

He wasn't a better or more accomplished college basketball player than Shabazz Napier.

The point is neither of them are getting in the Hall of Fame based only on their college careers.

 

[methodology]

Grant hill at his peak was better than ray. There no reasonable argument refutting that fact.

Ridiculous ray isn't a 1st ballot HOFer

 

[whaler11]

Grant Hill only averaged 17.5-7-5, was a first team AA and went to the Final Four without Hurley and Laettner. In an era when the teams would have destroyed the freshman led crapshows of the 2010s.

 

[UConnSwag11]

 

[superjohn]

Shabazz only averaged 18-6-5, was a first team AA, won the Final Four, and was Final Four MOP.

 

[whaler11]

Shabazz only averaged 18-6-5, was a first team AA, won the Final Four, and was Final Four MOP.

And Napier isn’t eligible for the Hall of Fame just yet. If he does make it some day a big part of it is going to be his college career.

 

[selles]

Grant Hill only averaged 17.5-7-5, was a first team AA and went to the Final Four without Hurley and Laettner. In an era when the teams would have destroyed the freshman led crapshows of the 2010s.

That 1994 Duke team had absolutely no one else too (as evidenced by their collapse the next year). Krzyzewski put Hill at point guard in the tournament and he somehow willed them to the final game.

He also crushed Michigan in the 1992 championship game.

 

[Dogdeacon]

That 1994 Duke team had absolutely no one else too (as evidenced by their collapse the next year). Krzyzewski put Hill at point guard in the tournament and he somehow willed them to the final game.

He also crushed Michigan in the 1992 championship game.

How dare you disrespect Cherokee Parks.

 

[UconnU]

Of course Ray is a hall of famer. Right?

 

[KemBaller]

27 is usually peak production.

Let me be clear: I really loved Hill. He would have been a great great player. I was more pushing back on Top 15 of all time. He'd have been Top 10 of his generation for sure.

Show your work. Present me any all-star level players over the last 20-25 years that had a statistical spike at age 27 and then a clear drop in every season thereafter. Please do not include any players that injury could be cited as the primary reason for statistical dropoff.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Based on his college career alone Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer? Where do you people come up with this stuff.

If Grant Hill is a Hall of Famer just based off of his college career then Shabazz is also a shoo-in.

Please make a list of players who played solid to leading roles on teams that went to 3 Final Fours and won 2 rings. Then tell me how many aren't in the HOF. Smh

 

[tzznandrew]

Show your work. Present me any all-star level players over the last 20-25 years that had a statistical spike at age 27 and then a clear drop in every season thereafter. Please do not include any players that injury could be cited as the primary reason for statistical dropoff.

You clearly are misreading what I'm saying, since that's not what I mean by peak, and usually not what people who use the work peak performance mean. "Players reach their peak" means they hit the level--usually sustained for a few years--that represents their best performance. The level Hill hit at 27 likely would have continued for another 3-4 years.

If you want some data:

 

[Dogdeacon]

Please make a list of players who played solid to leading roles on teams that went to 3 Final Fours and won 2 rings. Then tell me how many aren't in the HOF. Smh

NYPD Officer Bobby Hill