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Hey The Big Ten Network tweeted about us

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CTGoonie said:
I don't think it is a coincidence that the Whalers left just a few years after Huskymania took over the state.
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The NHL wanted the Whalers to go. Hockey is a different game than basketball.
 
Butch said:
The NHL wanted the Whalers to go. Hockey is a different game than basketball.
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I realize that and my theory may be totally wrong but I just can't look past the coincidence. To put it another way if Dunkin Donuts closes shop 6 months after Starbucks opens next door you can pretty much say that Dunkin wouldn't have closed if Starbucks hadn't opened. Two different sports but they were competing against each other for fans' dollars.
 
CTGoonie said:
I realize that and my theory may be totally wrong but I just can't look past the coincidence. To put it another way if Dunkin Donuts closes shop 6 months after Starbucks opens next door you can pretty much say that Dunkin wouldn't have closed if Starbucks hadn't opened. Two different sports but they were competing against each other for fans' dollars.
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The Patriots were very strongly considering a move to Hartford. From what I recall, from a business perspective, the move made total sense. Loyalty is why the Krafts kept the Patriots in Foxboro. One of Kraft's sons thought he was out of his mind for turning down the stadium in Hartford.
 
The Whaler and UConn fan crossover was minimal at best.

That team didn't make the playoff for ten years and were still averaging over 10k. Thats better then the Islanders when they tanked. They had a loyal hardcore base.
UConn might even have helped Whaler attrndence especially when the Huskies cut out a bunch of fans. With high pricing. The habit of going to Hartford established by going to UConn games carried over.
Luxuary seating was for both sports and a more attractive UConn helped sell boxes.
The Whalers problem was lack of TV deal
that was more a result the Bruin, Ranger, and Islander fans in CT.
The other problem was New Haven. (The best hockey area of the state never embraced the Whale) They had a INL franchise at the time.
Bad teams lack of fans outside of the Hartford Area and a huge lure from the Carolina's. UConn success was minimal to zero in the Whaler failure.
I was the only whaler fan at work. Fairfield County.
Their were bunches of Ranger and Islander fans.
Which worked out well. I got all the Whaler freebies.


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If the Whalers had stayed and the Pats moved in, Hartford would probably be a much nicer city right now. Too bad.
 
CTGoonie said:
I'm pretty sure the reason the Whalers couldn't survive is because Uconn basketball arrived and took a majority of the disposable income from sports fans in the area.
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The Whalers left because they had lousy support and a terrible arena/deal.

Plenty of cities support multiple pro franchises along with college sports.

Sports just aren't as important here as they are elsewhere.
 
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Butch said:
The Patriots were very strongly considering a move to Hartford. From what I recall, from a business perspective, the move made total sense. Loyalty is why the Krafts kept the Patriots in Foxboro. One of Kraft's sons thought he was out of his mind for turning down the stadium in Hartford.
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The Patriots used Hartford to squeeze a better deal from Foxboro. They were never coming.
 
Butch said:
Considering we're sandwiched between NYC and Boston? It's actually even a plus we were granted pro franchises. Hartford was the richest city in the US between the Civil War and the Great Depression. The powers that be would be wise to preserve as much Hartford history as possible. There should even be markers where the other three pro franchises played.
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Granted a pro franchise? Do you actually know how the Whalers got in the NHL?

Hartford had a National League Franchise for a season and a half 140 years ago.

What the hell would a baseball team that literally no one knows ever existed have to do with anything in 2013?
 
whaler11 said:
The Whalers left because they had lousy support and a terrible arena/deal.

Plenty of cities support multiple pro franchises along with college sports.

Sports just aren't as important here as they are elsewhere.
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There are experts now saying the Whalers would have been better off in Hartford. The Ron Francis trade harpooned the Whalers when it came to fan support.
 
whaler11 said:
Granted a pro franchise? Do you actually know how the Whalers got in the NHL?

Hartford had a National League Franchise for a season and a half 140 years ago.

What the hell would a baseball team that literally no one knows ever existed have to do with anything in 2013?
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I know the history of the Whalers. Bottom line: the NHL brought in a franchise located in Hartford.

The Dark Blues are just an example of another pro team we had. But the Whalers were the longest lived franchise here. And they were the most recent. Anyone with any knowledge about sports marketing knows the area can support a pro franchise.
 
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Butch said:
There are experts now saying the Whalers would have been better off in Hartford. The Ron Francis trade harpooned the Whalers when it came to fan support.
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The NHL didn't want Hartford to have a team. They sold to a guy who wanted out. It doesn't matter if they were better off staying - they weren't and they didn't.

I sat in that empty building for hundreds of games. They stunk so people didn't support them. It's not complicated.
 
Butch said:
I know the history of the Whalers. Bottom line: the NHL brought in a franchise located in Hartford.

The Dark Blues are just an example of another pro team we had. But the Whalers were the longest lived franchise here. And they were the most recent. Anyone with any knowledge about sports marketing knows the area can support a pro franchise.
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Sure thing. That is why we don't have one and no one is interested in bringing one here. Because anyone with any knowledge knows it would be such a raging success.

I'm pretty sure when making the case for having a team you don't reference a team that picked up and moved in the middle of a season.
 
whaler11 said:
Buddy I lived in Hartford during the period. They chewed Rowland up and spit him out. It was just a ploy to extract a deal in Mass. I still remember the Courant headline when they stuck it to him "Dear John"
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I almost remember the whole story as if it were yesterday. I became a Patriots fan in the mid-80s. People can say it was a ploy, but financially, a move to Hartford made sense. The NFL didn't want to leave another "large" market after they lost Los Angeles and Houston.
 
whaler11 said:
Sure thing. That is why we don't have one and no one is interested in bringing one here. Because anyone with any knowledge knows it would be such a raging success.
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That's why they are pumping up UConn, right?
 
Butch said:
I almost remember the whole story as if it were yesterday. I became a Patriots fan in the mid-80s. People can say it was a ploy, but financially, a move to Hartford made sense. The NFL didn't want to leave another "large" market after they lost Los Angeles and Houston.
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Aren't you describing a ploy? Go get great deal. Use it for leverage for a deal you wanted from somewhere else that wasn't motivated until you had an offer.

It's not people saying it was a ploy. It's the definition of a ploy.
 
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whaler11 said:
Who? What?
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whaler this is another one that you should try to stay away from arguing with... you make your points, he makes A point then goes completely off track (because he's a genius, who gets proven wrong on here time and time again). its an exercise in frustration.
 
Butch said:
I almost remember the whole story as if it were yesterday. I became a Patriots fan in the mid-80s. People can say it was a ploy, but financially, a move to Hartford made sense. The NFL didn't want to leave another "large" market after they lost Los Angeles and Houston.
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Moving to a smaller market impacts the value of the franchise eventually, no matter how much dough you get initially. and, since the Rams had already flirted with Hartford, it wasn't clear that the Patriots would retain territorial rights over Boston. So, he could've given up rights to Boston by moving, which is clearly not a smart idea.
 
Matt (Chicago) said:
whaler this is another one that you should try to stay away from arguing with... you make your points, he makes A point then goes completely off track (because he's a genius, who gets proven wrong on here time and time again). its an exercise in frustration.
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Of course you are right, but I was hoping he'd suggest that Morgan Bulkeley would rise from the dead and bring Hartford an MISL team.
 
upstater said:
Moving to a smaller market impacts the value of the franchise eventually, no matter how much dough you get initially. and, since the Rams had already flirted with Hartford, it wasn't clear that the Patriots would retain territorial rights over Boston. So, he could've given up rights to Boston by moving, which is clearly not a smart idea.
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I am aware of franchise valuation, as well. But the Patriots would still have been a New England team. I very much doubt the NFL would have let anyone move into Boston if the Patriots moved to Hartford. I am sure you know franchise relocations have to be approved by the leagues.

Matt (Chicago)...don't you have some bon bons to eat and some Oprah to watch? Did you notice I walked away from arguing or didn't care to argue? Drama queen.
 
On the Whalers, (I'll switch back my avatar if I must).

Team was forced on the NHL in the merger as it was the strongest franchise. Boston (where've we heard that) didn't want them.

Team underperformed on the ice and in the front office (thanks EJ), but sold most of it's tickets in what became an undersized building. Attendence was not the issue.

There was little to no ancillary revenue from the skyboxes (too few and too few sold), concessions or parking. That was a major problem.

The other major problem was a horrible TV deal. All rights were local back then and the Whalers didn't get much from.theirs.

So, after EJ gutted the team, and they missed with Pronger, Zalapski, Cullen, Coffey, and Shanahan, the team was weak in the standings and on balance sheet. When the NHL started looking south and west, along comes an industry insider, Cap'n Ponytail, to convince Bettman to allow him to buy and move the team.

A new arena was batted around, but he was determined to move.

With the current revenue sharing and salary cap, a Hartford hockey team would do just fine with a new arena. It has about 10-15 years before you'd have to rebuild the fanbase from scratch.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
Here's an interesting article about Hartford's most recent foray into pro sports and the city's most recent attempt to get back in. Supposedly, Kraft was saying in March of 1997 that the Whalers should accept the state's offer.

http://nesn.com/2013/01/patriots-wo...mbolize-difficult-period-in-hartford-history/

The only reason we have no pro franchise is being sandwiched between NYC and Boston. Not hard to grasp. The Whalers leaving was about spreading interest in the game.
 
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