Has Conference Realignment at Last Reached a Lull?

[specialisthusky]

Maryland's Lawyers just got tossed off the case.
http://www.ncbusinesslitigationrepo...sity-of-marylands-lawyers-on-a-pro-hac-basis/

Do you know what the size of the Big Ten Exit Fee is? If it is higher than the ACC's how can Maryland argue that the ACC's is punitive if it signed up for one larger in the B1G? I see zero reason for the ACC to settle for anything below $52 million.

How does one get thrown from a case they were never admitted pro hac?

 

[btstimpy]

How does one get thrown from a case they were never admitted pro hac?

If you want to call it blocked, that will work. In any event, they won't be there.

 

[specialisthusky]

If you want to call it blocked, that will work. In any event, they won't be there.

The Maryland AG and whatever seat fillers the nonadmitted attorneys hire as local counsel will do just fine.

 

[billybud]

They have statues in Richmond for Confederate heros. What do you expect?

My GG Grandfather, Thomas Pleasant Preston, and two of his brothers left Bedford, Virginia to fight for the CSA...and died in combat after a grueling defensive campaign.

Thomas P Preston died in the battle of Resaca and is buried in an unmarked grave. My GG Grandmother and her brother drove a wagon all of the way to the battle site to retrieve his body, only to find that his was one of the mass burials where soldiers were buried near where they fell.

I honor his valor as much as I honor the valor of my fathers G Grandfather who fought in the Wisconsin 3rd Cavalry, my father who fought in Normandy.

 

[btstimpy]

I must say that the one thing that causes me to doubt my reasons for Virginia not wanting to come to the Big Ten is that it lists every Big Ten University except Nebraska as its peer. GT, VT, FSU and NCST also list many Big Ten as peers as well. Because the Big Ten can provide extra money and has sound academics and the CIC, one can never totally exclude one ACC school leaving. And there are so many of them. You could say that the law of large numbers and time could work for the Big Ten. On the other hand, it has not yet worked for China with Taiwan.

Where is Virginia listing Big Ten schools as peer institutions? I've always seen UVA list Michigan as a peer institution along with North Carolina-Chapel Hill, William & Mary, and California-Berkley listed on a regular basis or spoken about in interviews with the UVA President. And I've seen some listings that include private institutions like Duke, Northwestern, Pennsylvania, and Vanderbilt due to some research associations. Just curious where the rest of the Big Ten are listed.

 

[CL82]

Point being agreed to Big Exit Penalties in both cases, therefore neither are punitive. Pay up!

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

 

[billybud]

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

Works for me....

Fire trucks always rushin', therefore they are painted red.

Fire trucks are painted red because there are 12 inches in a rule
and England rules the seas
And fish swim in the sea
and fish have fins
and the Finns fought the Russians
Russians are called the Reds
Fire engines are always rushin'
That's why they are painted red.

That bit about smelling like lemons was just a red herring, I'm onto you.

 

[Calamitous]

Where is Virginia listing Big Ten schools as peer institutions? I've always seen UVA list Michigan as a peer institution along with North Carolina-Chapel Hill, William & Mary, and California-Berkley listed on a regular basis or spoken about in interviews with the UVA President. And I've seen some listings that include private institutions like Duke, Northwestern, Pennsylvania, and Vanderbilt due to some research associations. Just curious where the rest of the Big Ten are listed.

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

 

[Pat125]

You realize that just using the word "therefore" between two statements doesn't automatically win an argument, right?

"A dog is mammal, therefore fire trucks smell like lemons."

Here's another "valid" therefore argument.

I. M. Becile: I want to let you know I broke this item.
Merchant: No problem, it will be a $50 charge.
IMB: But the item only cost $20.
Merchant: We just voted and decided that it is now $50 and also unilaterally decided it is not punitive. Therefore, pay up.
IMB: Okay, here is my $50. If others get in this situation, I will assist you in obsessively insisting they pay $50, and forgo their rights to challenge your arbitrary decision.
Merchant: No thanks, that would be a bit too pathetic.

 

[btstimpy]

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

I can see that because there are several land grant technical schools in the Big Ten. It could be listed somewhere by UVA, but I haven't seen it. I was just curious where he saw it listed.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

http://chronicle.com/article/Peers-Interactive-Data/134262/? Now to be fair, and to be sure that it is clear that I do not see my comments as gospel, UVA now lists Fifty-Nine schools. Maybe many of those schools are relative peers, but aside from schools like Wisconsin and Michigan, many might not be in the inner 20. I think that UVA's choices have been updated and grossly expanded (and thus less selective). Originally, I thought that UVA had around 10 choices and only Michigan was in that elite 10. In view of the current status of the Big Ten as an "invader", it is most interesting that so many ACC schools list Big Ten schools as "Peers." I was surprised. Check other ACC schools in tune with your degree of curiosity.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Maybe UVa is being confused with VPI&SU I know my school lists every B1G school as a peer except for Northwestern, Iowa, Nebraska and Indiana.

No, I did not confuse them. As I mentioned in another post, the lists on several schools seemed to have been expanded from a couple of months ago. Maybe the previous data was dated. And maybe some schools were waiting to be acknowledged first. As in exchanging Christmas cards and asking for signatures in a yearbook. Yes, I realize that College Administrators are adults, but I suppose that we can dismiss human frailties as a known quantity. BTW, I have no idea if VT would be at all interested in the Big Ten, but being a little less blue blood and traditional than UVA, it might consider a move to the Big Ten under favorable or necessary circumstances. And it is a fine school and an obvious football power. Not having AAU, but similar solid academics as with UConn could make a fine pair in my humble opinion.

 

[btstimpy]

http://chronicle.com/article/Peers-Interactive-Data/134262/? Now to be fair, and to be sure that it is clear that I do not see my comments as gospel, UVA now lists Fifty-Nine schools. Maybe many of those schools are relative peers, but aside from schools like Wisconsin and Michigan, many might not be in the inner 20. I think that UVA's choices have been updated and grossly expanded (and thus less selective). Originally, I thought that UVA had around 10 choices and only Michigan was in that elite 10. In view of the current status of the Big Ten as an "invader", it is most interesting that so many ACC schools list Big Ten schools as "Peers." I was surprised. Check other ACC schools in tune with your degree of curiosity.

Ok. That to me looks like they selected just about everyone in the AAU and called them peers. I guess in a way they could be. But the ones I mentioned (Michigan, California-Berkley, William & Mary, and North Carolina-Chapel Hill) are who I hear mentioned the most when someone from the UVA administration talks about it. William & Mary mostly because in the same state.

 

[billybud]

The whole Maryland-ACC thing is by now a little tired.

Not much to talk about...Maryland will pay something....the ACC & the Terps will then go on about their business....whether that payment be $20 million or $30 million doesn't seem that material.

 

[Calamitous]

BTW, I have no idea if VT would be at all interested in the Big Ten, but being a little less blue blood and traditional than UVA, it might consider a move to the Big Ten under favorable or necessary circumstances. And it is a fine school and an obvious football power. Not having AAU, but similar solid academics as with UConn could make a fine pair in my humble opinion.

I personally am more apt to lean toward the B1G than SEC if the ACC should crumble some day. But the B1G won't push for Tech unless 3 things happen: 1) Tech has to acquire AAU status and Steger/Tim Sands have them moving that way (maybe sooner than later), 2) Tech needs to grow and get the living alumni numbers larger (30K seems like a lot to me, but the B1G schools are much larger) and 3) Tech needs to expand it's athletic programs to have as many as 10 more new sports to be on the same page as the B1G. As for football power, I think that is more a myth lately. Tech is in the middle of the pack of the ACC these days, as they would in the B1G as well.

I do agree, of all the ACC schools, Tech fits the B1G profile the best. NC State and Clemson to a certain degree as well. UMCP was a perfect fit IMO. I do get frustrated by the ACC at times with the addition of all the private schools, but I understand where it all comes from. I'd love to see a new eastern conference with FSU, GT, Clemson, NCSU, UNC, VT, UVA, WVU, UMCP, PSU, Pitt, RU, Syracuse (the sole private school) and UCONN. That feels like the other P5s than the current ACC, to me at least.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Ok. That to me looks like they selected just about everyone in the AAU and called them peers. I guess in a way they could be. But the ones I mentioned (Michigan, California-Berkley, William & Mary, and North Carolina-Chapel Hill) are who I hear mentioned the most when someone from the UVA administration talks about it. William & Mary mostly because in the same state.

In as much the lesser amount that I know about Virginia, I agree. Put simply, Virginia and Michigan are just great schools. It is interesting that University of Michigan also includes many schools as "Peers" even though their academics are manifestly superior to the much greater part of the group. When one is elite it is the choice of the institution or person of superiority to open or close the doors. Depending on the context and circumstances, either choice can be appropriate. There are a great many schools that are not the equal of Virginia, but Virginia (and the other school) can mutually benefit from. There is nothing wrong with good inter-university relations!

While Virginia, UNC, Duke, GT and many other ACC schools are very likely not going anywhere, it is possible, after a time, that the Big Ten may get an ACC school to pair with UConn if the Big Ten expands. But interestingly, with more time, some non-ACC schools such as Buffalo could "improve their game" enough to get into the Big Ten.

 

[upstater]

One thing that ACC and B1G fans should note about this whole ACCvB1G discussion is that UConn fans are on the outside looking at allthis objectively since we haven't been conference partners with Maryland. We have with Rutgers, and I'm sure that's why so many of us tend to denigrate Rutgers. In fact, UConn fans despise Maryland because of the whole Gary Williams controversy over Rudy Gay, which sullied UConn's name for no good reason at all because Md. fans couldn't accept losing to UConn.

That being said, most of us here recognize that that school has an outstanding recruiting ground for football, an area that is at least as good as Virginia's Norfolk region, and for basketball it has DC and Baltimore. Not to mention the amount of wealthy eyeballs in that region. Objectively, Maryland would be a great add for any conference.

 

[billybud]

One thing that ACC and B1G fans should note about this whole ACCvB1G discussion is that UConn fans are on the outside looking at allthis objectively since we haven't been conference partners with Maryland. We have with Rutgers, and I'm sure that's why so many of us tend to denigrate Rutgers. In fact, UConn fans despise Maryland because of the whole Gary Williams controversy over Rudy Gay, which sullied UConn's name for no good reason at all because Md. fans couldn't accept losing to UConn.

That being said, most of us here recognize that that school has an outstanding recruiting ground for football, an area that is at least as good as Virginia's Norfolk region, and for basketball it has DC and Baltimore. Not to mention the amount of wealthy eyeballs in that region. Objectively, Maryland would be a great add for any conference.

DC/Maryland and New Jersey have both been the source of cherry picked athletes for FSU...and will probably continue to be so. They have some good athletes in the area.

FSU...on Roster:

Ronald Darby...starting DB....Maryland
Sean Maguire...2nd QB...........New Jersey
Kevin Haplea...TE....................New Jersey
Josue Matias....starting OG.....New Jersey
Eddie Goldman...starting DT..Washington DC

 

[06029]

They tried to leave as soon as the exit fee became onerous.

So to be clear about your logic, if MD did not get the B1G invite, they would have left the ACC because of the onerous exit fee?

They left as soon as the we will double your income offer showed up from the B1G. They may have been in preliminary discussions (one of those little things that might pop up in discovery and hurt their case against the ACC) and accelerated it on their end, but I don't think the fee made them leave. I don't even think it could be considered a factor.

 

[Dooley]

Maryland left because of money. That's it. They will almost double their revenue from TV with the move and there is something to be said for long-term B1G security. The ACC and B12 are both conferences that will need to continue to defend itself against the likes of the B1G, SEC or PAC. One of those conferences will be raided at some point, so MD decided not to chance it and they got themselves a seat in the upper elite P5 while it could.

 

[billybud]

Maryland was a destitute former executive standing on a corner with a sign..."will move for money...Can't pay my bills..desperate!"

 

[Calamitous]

That being said, most of us here recognize that that school has an outstanding recruiting ground for football, an area that is at least as good as Virginia's Norfolk region, and for basketball it has DC and Baltimore. Not to mention the amount of wealthy eyeballs in that region. Objectively, Maryland would be a great add for any conference.

No one ever combines Baltimore and DC in their MSA, but those 2 comprise of 8.7 million residents (#4 MSA and not far behind Chicago). If you're familiar with that area, Baltimore and DC merge together and it's difficult to determine which suburb you belong to. UMCP is smack in the middle of both.

There are only three other state flagship/land grant universities (that I can think of) that call metropolitan locations greater 4 million home besides UMCP, and those are Rutgers, Michigan and Berkeley. Michigan is a bit of a stretch, but Ann Arbor is technically listed as part of the Detroit MSA. The B1G has 3 of the 4 that I list.

As a follower of the ACC and my school being a part of it, losing UMCP was a huge blow; athletically, academically, culturally, financially and geographically. Delany kicked Swofford's butt on that one... no doubt.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Maryland was a destitute former executive standing on a corner with a sign..."will move for money...Can't pay my bills..desperate!"

... Who then became a prince one day.

 

[Calamitous]

... Who then became a prince one day.

Good move by UMCP, but not quite a prince. The king and queen are OSU and UM with MSU, UW, PSU as princes. Nebraska and Indiana may be knights and the rest dukes.

 

[billybud]

Oh Maryland will wear fine livery, but be armor polishers for Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, et al....

Not that I have any dog in this fight at this point, but Maryland will be another Purdue/Indiana in terms of football.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

They were armor polishers in the ACC with tattered livery.