Has Conference Realignment at Last Reached a Lull?

[btstimpy]

And yet their football schedule is way better than Florida State's. Strange days indeed.

What measure are you using for this claim? Just curious. I would use strength of the opponents if I were to make it.
FSU in 2014 is playing 7 bowl teams from 2013, 4 bowl winners. Maryland is playing 5 bowl teams from 2013, and 2 bowl winners. They overlap with one of the bowl winners in Syracuse. Just curious where you are coming from with this claim.

 

[whaler11]

What measure are you using for this claim? Just curious. I would use strength of the opponents if I were to make it.
FSU in 2014 is playing 7 bowl teams from 2013, 4 bowl winners. Maryland is playing 5 bowl teams from 2013, and 2 bowl winners. They overlap with one of the bowl winners in Syracuse. Just curious where you are coming from with this claim.

I was talking in generalities going forward.

2014 is pretty close. How many won bowl games last season doesn't mean .

Don't you guys have anything better to do than obsess over Maryland?

 

[btstimpy]

You are a bit brain dead aren't you? You've done nothing but complain about how bad most of the ACC teams are all through the thread, and now this nonsense.

You and that Virginia idiot didn't start out so bad but now it's just painful trolling.

Come on Whaler11, you can figure out where he's coming from. He wants to be playing in the SEC. He sees those teams as better competition. The Big Ten is worse than the ACC and also farther away. There is nothing attractive in a Big Ten schedule for Florida State. I've realized after being here a while that people in the northeast view the Big Ten a whole lot differently than people in the south. The Big Ten isn't followed in the south, and never has been really. Most southern football fans aren't impressed. Saying it tends to make some posters here mad, but it is the case.

 

[btstimpy]

I was talking in generalities going forward.

2014 is pretty close. How many won bowl games last season doesn't mean .

Don't you guys have anything better to do than obsess over Maryland?

My only obsession over Maryland is that I want them to pay the full exit fee. Other than that, they're gone. I do not see a huge loss for the conference, and I've debated that here many times. In honoring not to do it over and over again as some have asked, let's drop that now.

 

[upstater]

I think the Pac 12 is way ahead of the Big 10 right now. Just list the head coaches top to bottom. No question which one is stronger.

Urban Meyer, Mark Dantonio, James Franklin, Pat Fitzgerald, Kirk Ferentz. A good 5.
Mark Helfrich, Jim Mora Jr., David Shaw, Mike Leach, Chris Petersen. Another good 5.

 

[Calamitous]

B1G is Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan st., Nebraska, Wisconsin. These are 6 teams with huge fanbases and a lot of NFL alums and good winning histories. Texas Tech and Baylors of the world don't hold a candle to these 6.

Final 2013 AP poll: 7 SEC, 6 PAC, 3 ACC, 3 B1G, 3 B12, 2 AAC and 1 Indy. Just as an example, over the last 5 years, the ACC has had 25 more draft picks than the B1G and 9 more first rounders. But those are just statistics... maybe the B1G really is the 2nd best football conference.

 

[The Funster]

The fans want rivalries. The ADS and commishes want $$$.

Guess who wins?

 

[upstater]

Final 2013 AP poll: 7 SEC, 6 PAC, 3 ACC, 3 B1G, 3 B12, 2 AAC and 1 Indy. Just as an example, over the last 5 years, the ACC has had 25 more draft picks than the B1G and 9 more first rounders. But those are just statistics... maybe the B1G really is the 2nd best football conference.

I wish draft picks and first rounders mattered more. Because UConn dominated Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt in that realm.

 

[NickyNewark]

You are so full of !!!!! You troll every conference realignment board on the internet, you have spent the last year on the BY talking about the B1G and now you have the balls to say you "don't know anything about the Big Ten, never watch the Big Ten, and don't have any real interest in the Big Ten". Get the out of here & go die in a hole!!!!!

Sorry Fishy, if you need to send me to timeout for a while I'll understand but I can't take this jerkoff anymore

What an obvious troll this wacko stimpycuse!! Everywhere I lurk hes there pushing his agenda!! He makes even me cringe now!! Like an emotionless broken record!!

 

[NickyNewark]

I have to agree with bobby you are a jerkoff

I was wondering why it took so long for everyone to notice what was obvious to me the 1st day he arrived! Ive seen and argued(to no avail lol) on a Cuse board yrs ago(of which hes a longtime member) and at 1st he hemmed and hawed! He's unbending and unassailably either dumb or crazy!! Mr Knowitall Cavalier...talk about condescending??

 

[billybud]

So you do not like a poster's opinion....nor his presentation.

Being ugly..calling names......

oh...never mind.

 

[whaler11]

I wish draft picks and first rounders mattered more. Because UConn dominated Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt in that realm.

Um Louisville had 300% more first round picks in this draft than UConn has had in their history.

Since UConn joined the Big East Pitt & Louisville had 29 draftees each Syracuse 22 and UConn 23.

Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt each had more in the first round.

So yeah your contention is disconected from reality.

 

[upstater]

Um Louisville had 300% more first round picks in this draft than UConn has had in their history.

Since UConn joined the Big East Pitt & Louisville had 29 draftees each Syracuse 22 and UConn 23.

Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt each had more in the first round.

So yeah your contention is disconected from reality.

This past draft?

I was looking at NFL players overall. Prior to this year, UConn was second in the old BE to Rutgers for NFL players. UConn had 23. Louisville had 12. It wasn't even close.

And I'm talking about making the actual season roster, not training camp signees. All of the guys below were on rosters last year, Louisville had a little more than half as many. So, if indeed they are getting more drafted since 2004, they sure aren't sticking in the NFL like the UConn guys.

We went through this with a thread last year, and we all noticed that UConn was 2nd in the old BE after Rutgers.


Will BeattyNew York GiantsOffensive Tackle
Tyvon BranchOakland RaidersSafety
Donald BrownSan Diego ChargersRunning Back
Darius ButlerIndianapolis ColtsCornerback
Marcus EasleyBuffalo BillsWide Receiver
Dwayne GratzJacksonville JaguarsCornerback
Ryan GriffinHouston TexansTight End
Danny LansanahTampa Bay BuccaneersLinebacker
Scott LutrusIndianapolis ColtsLinebacker
Robert McClainAtlanta FalconsCornerback
Kashif MoorePittsburgh SteelersWide Receiver
Sio MooreOakland RaidersLinebacker
Dan OrlovskyDetroit LionsQuarterback
Kendall ReyesSan Diego ChargersDefensive End
Anthony ShermanKansas City ChiefsRunning Back






Donald ThomasIndianapolis ColtsGuard
Jordan TodmanJacksonville JaguarsRunning Back
Trevardo WilliamsHouston TexansLinebacker
Nick WilliamsWashington RedskinsWide Receiver
Lawrence WilsonChicago BearsLinebacker
Blidi Wreh-WilsonTennessee TitansCornerback

 

[whaler11]

This past draft?

I was looking at NFL players overall. Prior to this year, UConn was second in the old BE to Rutgers for NFL players. UConn had 23. Louisville had 12. It wasn't even close.

And I'm talking about making the actual season roster, not training camp signees. All of the guys below were on rosters last year, Louisville had a little more than half as many. So, if indeed they are getting more drafted since 2004, they sure aren't sticking in the NFL like the UConn guys.

We went through this with a thread last year, and we all noticed that UConn was 2nd in the old BE after Rutgers.


Will BeattyNew York GiantsOffensive Tackle
Tyvon BranchOakland RaidersSafety
Donald BrownSan Diego ChargersRunning Back
Darius ButlerIndianapolis ColtsCornerback
Marcus EasleyBuffalo BillsWide Receiver
Dwayne GratzJacksonville JaguarsCornerback
Ryan GriffinHouston TexansTight End
Danny LansanahTampa Bay BuccaneersLinebacker
Scott LutrusIndianapolis ColtsLinebacker
Robert McClainAtlanta FalconsCornerback
Kashif MoorePittsburgh SteelersWide Receiver
Sio MooreOakland RaidersLinebacker
Dan OrlovskyDetroit LionsQuarterback
Kendall ReyesSan Diego ChargersDefensive End
Anthony ShermanKansas City ChiefsRunning Back






Donald ThomasIndianapolis ColtsGuard
Jordan TodmanJacksonville JaguarsRunning Back
Trevardo WilliamsHouston TexansLinebacker
Nick WilliamsWashington RedskinsWide Receiver
Lawrence WilsonChicago BearsLinebacker
Blidi Wreh-WilsonTennessee TitansCornerback

You said draft picks and specifically first round draft picks. If you want to change your argument that's fine. That Louisville would have a dip in actual players on rosters around this time that lags with Kragthorpe is not a surprise. I'll spoil the surprise for you -UConn's Pasqualoni dip is coming in the next few NFL seasons.

 

[upstater]

You said draft picks and specifically first round draft picks. If you want to change your argument that's fine. That Louisville would have a dip in actual players on rosters around this time that lags with Kragthorpe is not a surprise. I'll spoil the surprise for you -UConn's Pasqualoni dip is coming in the next few NFL seasons.

I was responding to the previous poster who was talking about a school's superiority based on draft picks. And no I didn't go back 11 years like you did. In fact, I was just going from memory off the previous thread here that showed UConn with more drafted players and NFL players than Louisville. It's hard for me to believe that out of 29 draft picks, only 12 have stuck in the NFL for Louisville.

As for Pasqualoni, I'm sure there will be a drop-off, but there is only a 2 year gap. And look at what came out of Pasqualoni's program in that time:

Dwayne GratzJacksonville JaguarsCornerback
Ryan GriffinHouston TexansTight End
Sio MooreOakland RaidersLinebacker
Trevardo WilliamsHouston TexansLinebacker
Nick WilliamsWashington RedskinsWide Receiver
Blidi Wreh-WilsonTennessee TitansCornerback
Yawin Smallwood
Shamar Stephen

 

[whaler11]

I was responding to the previous poster who was talking about a school's superiority based on draft picks. And no I didn't go back 11 years like you did. In fact, I was just going from memory off the previous thread here that showed UConn with more drafted players and NFL players than Louisville. It's hard for me to believe that out of 29 draft picks, only 12 have stuck in the NFL for Louisville.

As for Pasqualoni, I'm sure there will be a drop-off, but there is only a 2 year gap. And look at what came out of Pasqualoni's program in that time:

Dwayne GratzJacksonville JaguarsCornerback
Ryan GriffinHouston TexansTight End
Sio MooreOakland RaidersLinebacker
Trevardo WilliamsHouston TexansLinebacker
Nick WilliamsWashington RedskinsWide Receiver
Blidi Wreh-WilsonTennessee TitansCornerback
Yawin Smallwood
Shamar Stephen

I don't think you realize how short the average NFL career is when thinking about this.

Those are all Edsall players. You'll see the Pasqualoni drop when his recruiting classes would be 2-3 years past running out of eligibility.

 

[upstater]

I don't think you realize how short the average NFL career is when thinking about this.

Those are all Edsall players. You'll see the Pasqualoni drop when his recruiting classes would be 2-3 years past running out of eligibility.

It's 3 years.

I was pointing out that UConn players are sticking in the NFL.

Louisville, BTW, stuck with Kragthorpe for 4 years or 5 recruiting cycles.

UConn went through 3 recruiting cycles with Pasqualoni.

 

[whaler11]

It's 3 years.

I was pointing out that UConn players are sticking in the NFL.

Louisville, BTW, stuck with Kragthorpe for 4 years or 5 recruiting cycles.

UConn went through 3 recruiting cycles with Pasqualoni.

Yes UConn has had good success keeping players in the league. Moreso then generating high impact players they have done well with quantity.

The length of Krag's stay is exactly why Ville's number is low today. BTW Krag only coached 3 seasons.

I can tell you what NFL seasons you'll see PP in UConn's data.

Take the current UConn NFL players. Name the ones who will be active in 2017. Take the players currently active at UConn and name the ones who will be active in the NFL in 2017. Throw in a name for a yet to be determined future upperclass transfer.

As sure as the sun rises in the East that number is lower than 2013. Now count how many years it will take to reverse (at least 3 even if Diaco does a great job). 2017-2019 UConn's NFL roster count will look terrible and Louisville's will look great.

 

[upstater]

As sure as the sun rises in the East that number is lower than 2013. Now count how many years it will take to reverse (at least 3 even if Diaco does a great job). 2017-2019 UConn's NFL roster count will look terrible and Louisville's will look great.

It all depends on the individual players. Branch, Smallwood, Moore, Reyes, Gratz, Wreh-Wilson may still be around. Geremy Davis and Ashiru may join them. UConn will probably drop from 23 to 12 or so. But Louisville is not a lock to ramp up. Bridgewater will likely be there at least as a backup, but then who? I like Calvin Pryor and Hakeem Smith a lot. But many of the older guys like Harry Douglas and David Akers will drop off. Dumervil, for instance, will be toast by then.

These are Louisville's guys right now:

David Akers PK DET
Gary Barnidge TE CLE
Josh Bellamy WR CHI
Teddy Bridgewater QB MIN
Preston Brown LB BUF
Michael Bush RB FA
Harry Douglas WR ATL
Elvis Dumervil LB BAL
William Gay CB PIT
Johnny Patrick CB NYJ
Bilal Powell RB NYJ
Calvin Pryor S NYJ
Greg Scruggs DE SEA
Marcus Smith LB PHI

 

[Plains&Lakes]

Finances were a part of it, yes, but it was just part of the issue. UMCP fans thought the the ACC no longer meant anything to them after schools were added. It is similar to Nebraska fans feeling left out of the Big 8 when it became the Big 12. Sometimes it is just the school feeling it no longer belong. I would use these as cautionary tales for conferences that want to expand. Make sure that your long-time members believe that they have a stake in the conference going forward before adding. The B12 and ACC didn't heed those lessons early on and other conferences took advantage of their vulnerabilities as a result. I hope the ACC learned to value every one of the members so that this won't repeat. It's an open question whether the B1G can integrate UNL, RU and UMCP without alienating the other members or whether the SEC will ease in A&M and Mizzou w/o one or two long-time members getting unhappy.

A thoughtful response. I would say a complimentary question might be: "If given the chance, would Nebraska go back to the Big 12 and Maryland to the ACC?" (It is hard imagining Rutgers wanting to go back to the AAC-even Big Ten detractors would argue this improbable) It is hard see established Big Ten members, with the CIC and traditions wanting to go to the SEC. I think that the Big Ten chose more selectively than the ACC and while 3 teams is a large add-on, the number of added-on members to the ACC over the last 15 years is just mind numbing. While much stronger, the ACC reminds one a bit of the old WAC model.

 

[Ldandy]

A thoughtful response. I would say a complimentary question might be: "If given the chance, would Nebraska go back to the Big 12 and Maryland to the ACC?" (It is hard imagining Rutgers wanting to go back to the AAC-even Big Ten detractors would argue this improbable) It is hard see established Big Ten members, with the CIC and traditions wanting to go to the SEC. I think that the Big Ten chose more selectively than the ACC and while 3 teams is a large add-on, the number of added-on members to the ACC over the last 15 years is just mind numbing. While much stronger, the ACC reminds one a bit of the old WAC model.

IMO the 2 key motivators of conference realignment will always be institutional fit and monetary value gained from affiliation. If one of these two motivators come into question, a school may begin to look around. They will likely stay put assuming the other motivator remains mostly unchanged for them. When both come into question for a school, or one of the two becomes entirely untenable, you will likely see movement.

The thing about The B1G is that it offers it's members both a mostly homogeneous conference membership (State Flagships, AAU etc.)and a ridiculously lucrative payout through it's network and media deals. There is almost no scenario imaginable where a current member would voluntarily give up the benefits of B1G Affiliation. You can not say the same about the other P5 Conferences, especially The Big 12 and ACC.

 

[Plains&Lakes]

IMO the 2 key motivators of conference realignment will always be institutional fit and monetary value gained from affiliation. If one of these two motivators come into question, a school may begin to look around. They will likely stay put assuming the other motivator remains mostly unchanged for them. When both come into question for a school, or one of the two becomes entirely untenable, you will likely see movement.

The thing about The B1G is that it offers it's members both a mostly homogeneous conference membership (State Flagships, AAU etc.)and a ridiculously lucrative payout through it's network and media deals. There is almost no scenario imaginable where a current member would voluntarily give up the benefits of B1G Affiliation. You can not say the same about the other P5 Conferences, especially The Big 12 and ACC.

Agreed. What makes any future selection process for Big Ten entry interesting is that the Big Ten offers stability, money, academics, the CIC and a pretty egalitarian attitude to even lesser members. So the potential is always there for a school to see the Big Ten as a good place to go even if the school currently does not want to leave their current conference.

Added to this is the somewhat unpredictable, open-ended thinking of Delany where things can (and have) happen that people never predicted or expected. I think that Jim Delany all by himself is a contributing cause for 2 GORs. If the Big Ten wants to go to 16 by 2016 and a school or 2 (or 3) that the Big Ten wants is willing to come, it is hard to believe the Delany and his legal team won't "help them." They will be probably have a prescription and plan already in place with just a little tweaking. Just my guess.

 

[whaler11]

It all depends on the individual players. Branch, Smallwood, Moore, Reyes, Gratz, Wreh-Wilson may still be around. Geremy Davis and Ashiru may join them. UConn will probably drop from 23 to 12 or so. But Louisville is not a lock to ramp up. Bridgewater will likely be there at least as a backup, but then who? I like Calvin Pryor and Hakeem Smith a lot. But many of the older guys like Harry Douglas and David Akers will drop off. Dumervil, for instance, will be toast by then.

These are Louisville's guys right now:

David Akers PK DET
Gary Barnidge TE CLE
Josh Bellamy WR CHI
Teddy Bridgewater QB MIN
Preston Brown LB BUF
Michael Bush RB FA
Harry Douglas WR ATL
Elvis Dumervil LB BAL
William Gay CB PIT
Johnny Patrick CB NYJ
Bilal Powell RB NYJ
Calvin Pryor S NYJ
Greg Scruggs DE SEA
Marcus Smith LB PHI

Louisville's roster last year was littered with NFL players. They didn't have 3 first round picks by accident and it was the first year of the next wave.

UConn has only a handful of current NFL players with better than 50/50 chances of being in the league in 5 seasons. Moore and Gratz. Maybe BWW. Ryan Griffin perhaps. Stephan and Smallwood haven't even made a team, their odds to last 5 years from those draft slots are pretty low.

So you do get that UConn will be lucky to have half as many, but don't see the connection between Louisville's down years and the current low number? They had no one picked in 2013 and 4 taken in 2014. That trend will continue and Petrino certainly isn't going to hurt things.

 

[Calamitous]

I wish draft picks and first rounders mattered more. Because UConn dominated Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt in that realm.

Yet another reason UConn was the better choice than the last 3 ACC additions. I won't argue that leaving UConn on the table was ill-advised.

 

[upstater]

Louisville's roster last year was littered with NFL players. They didn't have 3 first round picks by accident and it was the first year of the next wave.

UConn has only a handful of current NFL players with better than 50/50 chances of being in the league in 5 seasons. Moore and Gratz. Maybe BWW. Ryan Griffin perhaps. Stephan and Smallwood haven't even made a team, their odds to last 5 years from those draft slots are pretty low.

So you do get that UConn will be lucky to have half as many, but don't see the connection between Louisville's down years and the current low number? They had no one picked in 2013 and 4 taken in 2014. That trend will continue and Petrino certainly isn't going to hurt things.

I can only go by who was on the roster last year and who is there now. I counted the 3 first rounders as guys who will probably be around. Do you mean they have NFL players as underclassmen? Because a litter of NFL players means 4 draftees?

Besides, do you even realize that this whole discussion is irrelevant? The original topic was that schools are judged by how many NFL players they produce. UConn has 23 in the NFL. Clearly, UConn is NOT being judged by how many NFL players it produces.

 

[whaler11]

I can only go by who was on the roster last year and who is there now. I counted the 3 first rounders as guys who will probably be around. Do you mean they have NFL players as underclassmen? Because a litter of NFL players means 4 draftees?

Besides, do you even realize that this whole discussion is irrelevant? The original topic was that schools are judged by how many NFL players they produce. UConn has 23 in the NFL. Clearly, UConn is NOT being judged by how many NFL players it produces.

Yes. I'm talking about the future NFL players currently on the college roster. That is who will be in the league 5 years from now, not the current players.

The conversation started when you said that UConn dominates Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville in the draft and the first round of the draft. Which is demonstrably false because they have all been even, but UConn lags in the first round.

Why would conferences pick schools based on professional success anyway? That makes no sense. UConn's lead in NFL players is fleeting, so enjoy it while it lasts, because the worm has already turned and it will look very different soon.

 

[upstater]

Yes. I'm talking about the future NFL players currently on the college roster. That is who will be in the league 5 years from now, not the current players.

The conversation started when you said that UConn dominates Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville in the draft and the first round of the draft. Which is demonstrably false because they have all been even, but UConn lags in the first round.

Why would conferences pick schools based on professional success anyway? That makes no sense. UConn's lead in NFL players is fleeting, so enjoy it while it lasts, because the worm has already turned and it will look very different soon.

You're twisted.

My entire point was that schools are NOT chosen based on production of NFL players.

As usual, you can't read.

 

[whaler11]

You're twisted.

My entire point was that schools are NOT chosen based on production of NFL players.

As usual, you can't read.

Actually your point was that UConn has dominated those three schools in the draft and in the first round of the draft. Since this is so easily proven false that even you can't argue it, you are now just attacking me.

 

[upstater]

Actually your point was that UConn has dominated those three schools in the draft and in the first round of the draft. Since this is so easily proven false that even you can't argue it, you are now just attacking me.

No, you can't read. Everyone can go back and see I responded to a post that said getting added was about production of NFL players, and I wrote that in that case, UConn would have been added. I assumed that UConn had more draftees because I knew that UConn had 23 NFL players while Louisville had 12. If only I'd known that so many Louisville draftees flopped on their face in the NFL, I wouldn't have made the assumption that more UConn kids got drafted. 29 picks and 12 players. Great going Ville.

 

[Calamitous]

A thoughtful response. I would say a complimentary question might be: "If given the chance, would Nebraska go back to the Big 12 and Maryland to the ACC?" (It is hard imagining Rutgers wanting to go back to the AAC-even Big Ten detractors would argue this improbable) It is hard see established Big Ten members, with the CIC and traditions wanting to go to the SEC. I think that the Big Ten chose more selectively than the ACC and while 3 teams is a large add-on, the number of added-on members to the ACC over the last 15 years is just mind numbing. While much stronger, the ACC reminds one a bit of the old WAC model.

No way would Nebraska, UMCP or Rutgers leave the B1G. The B1G, PAC and SEC are the premiere conferences when looking at them overall. Contrary to my recent posts about recent B1G football, they will eventually be back. It's all cyclical and one day the B1G will be on top in football (same with SEC and PAC in given decades). UMCP will also be back in basketball and maybe even football again. Remember, UMCP has won a football NC back in the 50s and were good in the Bobby Ross days.

The B1G has been the most calculated in conference realignment. The ACC took Louisville, the B12 took TCU and the island of WVU, the PAC took Utah and the SEC took Mizzou. All rather puzzling moves. Rutgers and UMCP have a large living alumni, are flagships, are ranked well academically, meet the B1G profile, etc. The B1G does their homework. Louisville was a knee-jerk response. As far as the ACC being the old WAC model... I'd agree except the caliber of schools is a bit stronger than the WAC's. To me, the ACC seems like the old Big East with mostly full members sans ND.