OT: - Hartford Athletics Possible Drop to D3 | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: Hartford Athletics Possible Drop to D3

businesslawyer said:
But training nurses is nothing like training well rounded and intellectually curious college students.
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Lol, wow. Condescend much?
 
CL82 said:
Lol, wow. Condescend much?
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Yes, cut a quote in half and then conclude the half you quoted is condescending. Thank you much.

We need nurses, and they may as a group be more useful and better people than lawyers. But at schools with dedicated nursing programs, you are teaching a trade. It is not the same as providing a liberal arts education. If you really find that condescending, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's not a good one.
 
CTFIRERETIRED said:
Long before the internet, the glut of cable sports channels, Uhart decided to jump from D3 to D1 sports. At the time UCONN was in a moribund condition. Jim Calhoun had just taken over, but UC was not where it is today. There was no Gampel, as we all know most of the home games were in the decrepit Field House. The Hartford Civic Center's roof had fallen in, and the rebuilding effort was going on, and even some games were played in the old New Haven Coliseum. UC was at the bottom of the Big East. Many fans thought that UHart's program would take off. I was one of them. Here we are today, and UC is a national power, with a number of National championships under it's belt, a number of former players are in the NBA, and some are even head coaches. One has to ask WHY UHart's progam never got off the ground? It's an interesting question to be discussing.
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Exactly. And CCSU was ridiculed by the media and the State for doing the same thing - going from D-II to D-I in the 1980s. We we stuck as an independent for years, blocked by Hartford's admission to the North Atlantic Conference, and we had many other political and institutional challanges over the years.

Hartford never had the success, size, or alumni support as CCSU, but they were private and had more flexibilities so everyone just thought they would be successful like an Xavier or Richmond. But the lack of any private academic prestige, ugly campus and a lot of other issues were always there.

In hindsight, this is the logical choice and too many people are just clinging to a single and recent NCAA appearance. They had to bribe fans with concerts to draw a few thousand at the Civic Center and draw flies for the last decades in West Hartford.
 
businesslawyer said:
Yes, cut a quote in half and then conclude the half you quoted is condescending. Thank you much.
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The whole post is condescending. If you don't realize that in retrospect, you aren't particularly self-aware.
businesslawyer said:
We need nurses, and they may as a group be more useful and better people than lawyers. But at schools with dedicated nursing programs, you are teaching a trade. It is not the same as providing a liberal arts education. If you really find that condescending, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's not a good one.
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Lol, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not a good one? That's not doubling down on condescension. 🙄

In any event condescension is a tool that the uniformed use to insulate themselves from criticism. The notion that nursing is a trade rather than a profession is woefully ignorant. So let's consider what the criteria for a profession is.

A profession is described as an occupation in which specialized training is required. It requires prolonged training and formal qualifications to ensure competent performance of individuals within its ranks. Typically, within the US, professions are distinguished by certain specific characteristics; these include, but are not limited to: formal educational requirements, autonomy of practice, adherence to an established code of ethics, expansion of the level of knowledge, and a common culture and values present among members. Nursing meets all of this criteria.

(FWIW many 4 years degrees do not. By wrongly sneering that nursing was not a profession you showed your distain for all non-professional careers. It isn't a particularly good look.)

Independent of your lack awareness of nursing as a profession, you are also, apparently unaware that a BSN is a four year degree. So nursing students receive all the benefits of a broad based college education in the same way that all college students do.

So, yes, your post was stunningly condescending and, well let's just say it, ignorant. Hopefully, you are now better informed and perhaps just a bit more self-aware.

You're welcome.
 
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CL82 said:
The whole post is condescending. If you don't realize that in retrospect, you aren't particularly self-aware.

Lol, you are entitled to your opinion, but it's not a good one? That's not doubling down on condescension. 🙄

In any event condescension is a tool that the uniformed use to insulate themselves from criticism. The notion that nursing is a trade rather than a profession is woefully ignorant. So let's consider what the criteria for a profession is.

A profession is described as an occupation in which specialized training is required. It requires prolonged training and formal qualifications to ensure competent performance of individuals within its ranks. Typically, within the US, professions are distinguished by certain specific characteristics; these include, but are not limited to: formal educational requirements, autonomy of practice, adherence to an established code of ethics, expansion of the level of knowledge, and a common culture and values present among members. Nursing meets all of this criteria.

(FWIW many 4 years degrees do not. By wrongly sneering that nursing was not a profession you showed your distain for all non-professional careers. It isn't a particularly good look.)

Independent of your lack awareness of nursing as a profession, you are also, apparently unaware that a BSN is a four year degree. So nursing students receive all the benefits of a broad based college education in the same way that all college students do.

So, yes, your post was a stunningly condescending and, well let's just say it, ignorant. Hopefully, you are now better informed and perhaps just a bit more self-aware.

You're welcome.
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1. I don't at all mind being condescending to you. I'm only bothered when you pretend I'm being condescending to nurses.

2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.

3. I have no problem with people with non-professional careers. At the dinner party at my house last weekend with ten people, probably are closest group of friends, exactly half had professional careers and half didn't. But I refuse to pretend that there isn't a difference between going to college to become well educated and going to college to learn a particular skill just because you find it condescending. Those two paths mean different things for both universities and students.
 
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businesslawyer said:
1. I don't at all mind being condescending to you. I'm only bothered when you pretend I'm being condescending to nurses.
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Since your initial post wasn't aimed at me, it's kind of hard to claim it's condescension was aimed at me, but the fact that you are trying to distance yourself from it... is growth... of a sort. So good for you.
businesslawyer said:
2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.
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Ah, so the profession of nursing is a mere trade because you "know people who believe that people in their classes have little interest in political science classes." Lol, c'mon biz SMH. That's a bit of a reach wouldn't you say?
businesslawyer said:
3. I have no problem with people with non-professional careers. At the dinner party at my house last weekend with ten people, probably are closest group of friends, exactly half had professional careers and half didn't. But I refuse to pretend that there isn't a difference between going to college to become well educated and going to college to learn a particular skill just because you find it condescending. Those two paths mean different things for both universities and students.
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Lol, let me get this right, you believe that you are the arbiter, based upon your impression of the career path as to which students are attending "to become better educated" and which are merely "learning a particular skill." Seriously, do you hear yourself? You are amazingly lacking in self-awareness.

(Oh and thanks for letting us know that you deign to associate with non-professionals. It is really quite noble of you.) 🙄
 
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businesslawyer said:
2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.
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Come on. How many business majors actually have interest in accounting? How many engineers for calculus? How many sane people had an interest in what was Chem 127 many years ago?

Shoot - how many law school people get a JD to go into Politics? (coughChrisMurphycough)

You're smarter than this.
 
crazyUCfan23 said:
They will probably try to join the LEC I guess, but not sure the LEC would want them.
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Lec or the commonwealth coast conference
 
businesslawyer said:
1. I don't at all mind being condescending to you. I'm only bothered when you pretend I'm being condescending to nurses.

2. I know adults who go to liberal arts classes with nursing students at Fairfield. Yes, I know it is now a four year degree (a change in my lifetime), but multiple people tell me that by and large the students who are in their classes as part of their nursing degree have little interest in the history or polisci courses beyond getting necessary credits.

3. I have no problem with people with non-professional careers. At the dinner party at my house last weekend with ten people, probably are closest group of friends, exactly half had professional careers and half didn't. But I refuse to pretend that there isn't a difference between going to college to become well educated and going to college to learn a particular skill just because you find it condescending. Those two paths mean different things for both universities and students.
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most people go to college to party, get laid, and get a piece of paper so they can get paid later.

pretending that most or even a large portion of college students are academic olympians is really quite the take.
crazyUCfan23 said:
I doubt Eastern or Westconn would want another team in the conference from CT. LEC is all public schools too (at least I think so)
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So the ccc it is.
 
As the son of a University of Hartford alumnus and former basketball player circa 1960-64 as well as season ticket holders for the Hawks first year in Division I, this news makes me very sad.
 
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CL82 said:
Since your initial post wasn't aimed at me, it's kind of hard to claim it's condescension was aimed at me, but the fact that you are trying to distance yourself from it is growth... of a sort. So good for you.

Ah, so the profession of nursing is a mere trade because you "know people who believe that people in their classes have little interest in political science classes." Lol, c'mon biz SMH. That's a bit a reach wouldn't you say.

Lol, let me get this right, you believe that you are arbiter base upon career path or those attending "to become better educated" and those who are merely "learning a particular skill." Seriously, do you hear yourself? You are amazingly lacking in self-awareness.

(Oh and thanks for letting us know that you deign to associate with non-professionals. It is really quite noble of you.) 🙄
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Good God. I apologize that I believe in a liberal arts education instead of training students for a particular career. Clearly, that's a view that some find offensive. I guess I'm not woke enough for 2021.

The point of my initial comment was not to insult nurses or nursing. It was simply to make a factual point, which is Fairfield University by their design (this comes from a Trustee -- not me hypothesizing) is moving away from liberal arts and towards more career oriented education. Again, if people are insulted by facts, that is not on me.
 
businesslawyer said:
Good God. I apologize that I believe in a liberal arts education instead of training students for a particular career. Clearly, that's a view that some find offensive. I guess I'm not woke enough for 2021.

The point of my initial comment was not to insult nurses or nursing. It was simply to make a factual point, which is Fairfield University by their design (this comes from a Trustee -- not me hypothesizing) is moving away from liberal arts and towards more career oriented education. Again, if people are insulted by facts, that is not on me.
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LOL - so every other university in existence investing in "STEM" isn't doing the same exact thing? Come on. Again, you're smarter than this.
 
pepband99 said:
LOL - so every other university in existence investing in "STEM" isn't doing the same exact thing? Come on. Again, you're smarter than this.
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Apparently not.

More seriously, I'm not a fan of college students having entirely STEM training at college either, and if someone goes to college and learns nothing other than how to program a computer I fully agree, that's not different than learning how to be a nurse. I want college graduates to learn how to evaluate people and society through liberal arts.

But at the risk of being accused of whatever again, training someone to be a nurse, while critical to society, is not the same as training someone to go on from college and get a post-grad education somewhere in the STEM field. If I'm wrong, I expect to see Yale, Harvard and Stamford jump on the bandwagon and deemphasize liberal arts education for nursing.
 
Back in the 80's when the push was on at U of H to go Div 1, there was a group (of which I was one) that strongly opposed the idea, advocating that they stay aligned with the school's many traditional athletic foes (Trinity, Wesleyan, Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Bates, St. Michael's, St. Anselm, Assumption, Clark, CCSU, Bentley, etc.) and concentrate on improving the school's academic position and continue to achieve fairly consistent winning records in basketball, soccer, golf and baseball.

This is a bitter pill and provides zero satisfaction, it was a major mistake driven by testosterone and ego, the school has suffered greatly.
 
huskiesouth said:
This is a bitter pill and provides zero satisfaction, it was a major mistake driven by testosterone and ego, the school has suffered greatly.
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For sure. It was a disaster from the get-go. The only success of any kind was a few years with Rizzoti. I remember one of their AD's publicly criticizing Karl Hobbs when he turned down the MBB job. My big-mouth friend ran into Karl at the gas pumps shortly after and brought it up to him. My friend said he smiled and said, "Yeah, what was up with that?"
 
UHart has bigger problems than just athletics. They better be rethinking their mission strategy and operations as well. This $9m pick up, even if true, is no turnaround plan
 
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SwingDog said:
As the son of a University of Hartford alumnus and former basketball player circa 1960-64 as well as season ticket holders for the Hawks first year in Division I, this news makes me very sad.
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There is an excellent chance I knew your father!
 
businesslawyer said:
Good God. I apologize that I believe in a liberal arts education instead of training students for a particular career. Clearly, that's a view that some find offensive. I guess I'm not woke enough for 2021.

The point of my initial comment was not to insult nurses or nursing. It was simply to make a factual point, which is Fairfield University by their design (this comes from a Trustee -- not me hypothesizing) is moving away from liberal arts and towards more career oriented education. Again, if people are insulted by facts, that is not on me.
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The fact that you are "evolving" your opinion is a good thing. I'd suggest that you be more honest about it, at least with yourself, than pretending you didn't say what you said. I could go up and quote your actual posts, but it hardly seems worth the effort.

So, is your new position is that you oppose majors generally or just BS degrees? Either is an interesting take. I guess it is egalitarian to be dismissive of the vast majority of college students, rather than just nursing majors... I guess.

🙄
 
businesslawyer said:
More seriously, I'm not a fan of college students having entirely STEM training at college either, and if someone goes to college and learns nothing other than how to program a computer I fully agree, that's not different than learning how to be a nurse. I want college graduates to learn how to evaluate people and society through liberal arts.
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I very strongly believe you have no idea what the curriculum consist of nursing. The breadth of knowledge that is necessary is impressive. I'd guess that you are also unaware that they have to take a post graduate exam in order to practice, just like lawyers. FWIW, a very large part of there experience consists of "learning to evaluate people."
businesslawyer said:
But at the risk of being accused of whatever again, training someone to be a nurse, while critical to society, is not the same as training someone to go on from college and get a post-grad education somewhere in the STEM field. If I'm wrong, I expect to see Yale, Harvard and Stamford jump on the bandwagon and deemphasize liberal arts education for nursing.
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You have no idea what nurses actually do, do you? Are you are that there are post-graduate nursing degrees? Seldom have I seen anyone cling so desperately to such an uninformed opinion. And with such distain. It is really is remarkable.
 
When I was at UConn, UHa ahd a good and heated rivalary with UConn in soccer, especially women's soccer. Also know a few kids from my high school who played on their baseball team. Once of their kids signed a lax scholarship for UHa back in February. I get the the numbers. Just a rough situation for the kids.
 
pepband99 said:
As the husband of a brilliant nurse who would have run academic circles around me (and still would), and went to Fairfield - go find a cinder block and a lake.
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I'm a Jewish lawyer. But even I know enough about engineering to know that your plan requires someone who ties better knots than I to come along and also have string.
 
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CL82 said:
You have no idea what nurses actually do, do you? Are you are that there are post-graduate nursing degrees? Seldom have I seen anyone cling so desperately to such an uninformed opinion. And with such distain. It is really is remarkable.
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Goodwin College University offers a Masters in Nursing. They have club sports.
 
pepband99 said:
LOL - so every other university in existence investing in "STEM" isn't doing the same exact thing? Come on. Again, you're smarter than this.
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I have no dog in this fight, but I just thought I'd point out... no they aren't doing the same thing. I would probably agree with the statement that nursing school straddles the line of trade school/college, but leans more towards an academic trade school.

Like he said, Fairfield is moving towards nursing/business. Teaching at a hs I've seen that with kids and college apps.

Schools investing in STEM has a lot more to do with research, prestige, and publications--not nursing, not careers for their students. Yale is investing in STEM. Do they even have a nursing program? You get the idea.

Fairfield is pumping out nurses more than anyone else in the state. They've decided to focus on career education. Science/Math/technology is not "career education"--even though it obviously leads to some pretty solid career prospects compared to liberal arts. When you go to Fairfield in the nursing program, it's pretty clear that you are going to be a nurse. That isn't true for a kid who goes for bio, chem, math, whatever.
 
This is a good thing for UHart. To those on twitter who don't like it who post here..get over yourselves. D1 athletics at Uhart is a waste money.

As for this other talk about college training stem v. rich people majors. If you can afford it major in whatever you want but if you can't afford it...you better figure it out.
 
This is just unfathomable. Good for the softball girls. Disgusting bureaucratic move, these poor kids. I just literally can't believe this has gotten this far
 
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