Hartford’s XL Center is a prime candidate for major sports betting venue, providing possible boost for long-debated renovation (Courant)

[Fishy]

Yeah, love you John but that mostly word salad.

It’s not.

It was very well stated.

 

[CL82]

It’s not.

It was very well stated.

Respectfully disagree. It’s filled with the misuse of terms like ‘regressive tax’ that sound good superficially but aren’t particularly applicable. Just my humble opinion though.

 

[JohnFSilver]

John: do you know that I was involved with the original winning bid - developers from Tuxedo NY and Montreal - and watched (and agonized over the Mansfield Economic Development/Town) as it emerged from conceptual plan to groundbreaking. I guess I thought it would become a Campus Disneyland. My UCONN (now Alum) daughter lived there with girlfriends and I have spent much of the last decade in Student Housing finance. I would say it is an unrealized concept. I am pleased that Price Chopper came (because that was always a concern as a student and later as a stakeholder). But, my "vision" of a COLLEGETOWN is there are solid jobs and generational community - not just students. It is what it is. The UNITS themselves are ... unimpressive to a professional. The mix of retail / restaurant tenancy is ... good. The link with buses and transportation is excellent.

That is terrible to hear. So you are thinking young professionals and business growing around the area?

I am going from Store 24 to what they had now. But perhaps we need more imagination with it. In your opinion, is EO Smith getting moved an option? UConn needs that land for development.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Respectfully disagree. It’s filled with the misuse of terms like ‘regressive tax’ that sound good superficially but aren’t particularly applicable. Just my humble opinion though.

Wait. Gambling acts like a regressive tax. Regressive Tax

Poor people who gamble risk a higher percentage of their income than wealthier people. The less wealth you have, the more percentage of your income you gamble. $1000 to a millionaire vs. a $1000 to a dude making 30K is a different level of income percentage. Gambling is definitely regressive in nature. Always has been and when the government sanctions it (lottery for example) it is a regressive tax. I am not brilliant here, a lot of economic literature on the nature of state-sponsored gambling and its function as a regressive tax on the population.

When the state offers gambling to raise revenue (lottery) instead of raising income taxes by income level, that is choosing a regressive use tax (though voluntary) over a progressive taxation system to fund the government.

I am not saying it isn't good. But the government doesn't have shareholders and isn't a business. All money it collects are taxes, even if they aren't called it.

Think of it in those terms. The only way government collects revenue is through taxes. When we use money from the lottery to fund education, we are instituting a regressive tax to pay for education.

 

[Pudge]

That is terrible to hear. So you are thinking young professionals and business growing around the area?

I am going from Store 24 to what they had now. But perhaps we need more imagination with it. In your opinion, is EO Smith getting moved an option? UConn needs that land for development.

OK ... we are talking decades. Wasteland that was on Dog's Lane to today.

So ... begin your tour in Ann Arbor. THEN ... think what the industry of Student Housing Development (really did not exist in much concentration before 2004) and the oodles of institutional money that lined up to get that push. If you haven't been to a Arizona State or a South Carolina or a Georgia ... you haven't seen LUXURY student residence yet. With the largesse of capital, came the desire to make the University demand driver and anchor for lots of other property types and mixed use collegetown. Nearby, UNH has a sweet little downtown; Rutgers is 200% better; Maryland is hugely built up. But the Capital was there ... and Storrs Center is rather modest in scale. The University of Connecticut has plenty of Land - like amazing amount of land. The Depot Campus plus others are in concept form and things take forever in Mansfield/UCONN. That University has kept major Institutional Money/Developers away ... and not encouraged them. Carriage House? Landmark with Abu Dhabi capital wanted to do a massive project. But to be a liveable community, a University should want jobs and multigenerational life. The concerts, sporting events, mix, restaurants ... should make a UCONN a desirable home.



EO Smith eradication is not high on my personal vision for my favorite University. There are lots of opportunities ready to be enacted.

 

[CL82]

Wait. Gambling acts like a regressive tax. Regressive Tax

Poor people who gamble risk a higher percentage of their income than wealthier people. The less wealth you have, the more percentage of your income you gamble. $1000 to a millionaire vs. a $1000 to a dude making 30K is a different level of income percentage. Gambling is definitely regressive in nature. Always has been and when the government sanctions it (lottery for example) it is a regressive tax. I am not brilliant here, a lot of economic literature on the nature of state-sponsored gambling and its function as a regressive tax on the population. It's why the flat tax is never seriously considered. Too regressive.

When the state offers gambling to raise revenue (lottery) instead of raising income taxes by income level, that is choosing a regressive use tax (though voluntary) over a progressive taxation system to fund the government.

I am not saying it isn't good. But the government doesn't have shareholders and isn't a business. All money it collects are taxes, even if they aren't called it.

Yeah, sorry if I came off dismissive on this John. I disagree. Let me explain why.

Gambling isn't a tax because it isn't a compulsory contribution to state revenue. No one forces anyone to gamble. It is a discretionary entertainment expenditure. Likewise, it isn't a payment toward state revenue, anymore than say going to the theater. There is a private agency that reaps the profit. Yes, they pay taxes on that profit but that is no different than any other business. Calling gambling a regressive tax is a misuse of that term.

Do you know for a fact that gambling disproportionate impact the the indigent or are you speculating? Is there data that supports that? Not other speculation, but hard data? I think it certainly could be true, but without hard data, it is mere speculation.

Discretionary spending invariably stimulates the economy and yes that is a good thing (usually).

Finally a flat tax may or may not be regressive based upon the income levels that against which it is applied. A flat tax of say 20% on all income would be regressive but a flat tax of 10% on all income over $10M would not.

 

[Waquoit]

They had gambling at Valley Forge, it's part of our heritage. I drove cross country 15 years ago and stopped in states that had real, legal slot machines in bars. Anecdotal I know, but I never saw anyone playing the things. Forbidden fruit is so powerful, I think proliferation lessens the urge.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Yeah, sorry if I came off dismissive on this John. I disagree. Let me explain why.

Gambling isn't a tax because it isn't a compulsory contribution to state revenue. No one forces anyone to gamble. It is a discretionary entertainment expenditure. Likewise, it isn't a payment toward state revenue, anymore than say going to the theater. There is a private agency that reaps the profit. Yes, they pay taxes on that profit but that is no different than any other business. Calling gambling a regressive tax is a misuse of that term.

Do you know for a fact that gambling disproportionate impact the the indigent or are you speculating? Is there data that supports that? Not other speculation, but hard data? I think it certainly could be true, but without hard data, it is mere speculation.

Discretionary spending invariably stimulates the economy and yes that is a good thing (usually).

Finally a flat tax may or may not be regressive based upon the income levels that against which it is applied. A flat tax of say 20% on all income would be regressive but a flat tax of 10% on all income over $10M would not.

I am not offended.

This goes back into the meaning -- what is a tax! LOL. Many taxes are voluntary and regressive (sales, fishing licenses, tobacco).

You are saying discretionary spending stimulates the economy. I am saying, OF COURSE, IT DOES! But the way gambling functions, with a state-sponsored actor (lottery at 100%), you are removing that discretionary spending from the economy. It reduces discretionary spending. Nothing is bought or sold in the transaction. That is my entire point.

In that way, gambling acts like a tax. Throw it in a slot, or send a check to the government. That money is removed from circulation temporarily. It isn't like you bought or sold something. Also, the cut is gross. Foxwood could be losing money at the casino, taking big losses, and state still getting its cut regardless of profitability.

Gambling can be a very destructive force on an economy if it gets out of hand. It is like drugs for politicians. Easy way to get revenue and not have to raise income taxes.

We just have to be very careful that gambling is a panacea. If people use their discretionary income for gambling, that money is not spent in the economy. It is collected and siphoned to the state.

25% of gross revenue from Foxwoods and Mohegan slots are given to the state. That is a tax. The state is not providing any service or commodity and is not stimulating the economy.

Next time someone puts $100 into a slot. $25 went to Connecticut for just allowing you to do it. Mohegan takes the other $75 and figures out how to make money on it.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Love Brigantine as well. Its funny because it seems like not that many people know about it outside of my inner circle that goes there...even people the regularly go to Atlantic City don’t know about Brigantine when it’s right over the bridge. The beach is great, It’s nice and quiet, never too over crowded, It has some pretty good restaurants like The Cove, Andre’s, and of course WaWa.

My brother-in-law has a place in Brigantine right near the Elks Lodge that we go to a couple of times a summer. Really nice option and quick Uber drive if you don't want to stay in AC. We would usually go to the drive-on beach. Spent a lot of time at The Cellar, Laguna Grill and Rod n Reel years ago before kids.

 

[CL82]

I am not offended.

This goes back into the meaning -- what is a tax! LOL. Many taxes are voluntary and regressive (sales, fishing licenses, tobacco).

A tax is a compulsory payment that go to benefit of state government. Sales tax is compulsory (sort of) but the underlying purchases are not. Same with tobacco. A fishing license is a use fee.

You are saying discretionary spending stimulates the economy. I am saying, OF COURSE, IT DOES! But the way gambling functions, with a state-sponsored actor (lottery at 100%), you are removing that discretionary spending from the economy. It reduces discretionary spending. Nothing is bought or sold in the transaction. That is my entire point.

Money spent gambling doesn't evaporate. It remains in the economy.

In that way, gambling acts like a tax. Throw it in a slot, or send a check to the government. That money is removed from circulation temporarily. It isn't like you bought or sold something. Also, the cut is gross. Foxwood could be losing money at the casino, taking big losses, and state still getting its cut regardless of profitability.

Buy that argument any expenditure is a de facto tax. Buy a bottle of infant formula or send a check to the government. Discretionary purchases are different from a compulsory payment to support the government.

Yes, entities that provide services pay taxes. That doesn't make the a branch of the government.

Gambling can be a very destructive force on an economy if it gets out of hand. It is like drugs for politicians. Easy way to get revenue and not have to raise income taxes.

Fully agree that gambling can disruptive to a micro-economy, like a family or group. I'm not sure when it is legal that it is all that destructive to the economy of a government.

We just have to be very careful that gambling is a panacea. If people use their discretionary income for gambling, that money is not spent in the economy. It is collected and siphoned to the state.

I agree that the legalization of gambling needs to be done thoughtful. Remember though that the vast majority of that money (unless you are talking the lottery) does not go to the state.

25% of gross revenue from Foxwoods and Mohegan slots are given to the state. That is a tax. The state is not providing any service or commodity and is not stimulating the economy.

Agree that that is a tax. Those revenues absolutely "stimulate the economy."

Where Does All the Casino Money Go?​

Next time someone puts $100 into a slot. $25 went to Connecticut for just allowing you to do it. Mohegan takes the other $75 and figures out how to make money on it.

Yes it does. What does the state do with it?

Known today as the Mashantucket Pequot and Mohegan Fund (Pequot Fund), a portion of the money raised through casino gaming is set aside and placed into this separate nonlapsing account so that it can be allocated to each and every municipality in the form of state aid. In its 17 years in existence, the fund has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in state aid to our local communities. Money that does not get diverted into this fund goes directly into the General Fund.

Simplified, the state's gambling agreement lessens the tax burden on individual taxpayers.

 

[Ts5034]

My brother-in-law has a place in Brigantine right near the Elks Lodge that we go to a couple of times a summer. Really nice option and quick Uber drive if you don't want to stay in AC. We would usually go to the drive-on beach. Spent a lot of time at The Cellar, Laguna Grill and Rod n Reel years ago before kids.

Laguna is a nice place to hang out whether its in the afternoon grabbing lunch when youre at the beach, or later on into the night to hang out and have some drinks right on the beach like that. Friends of mine have a timeshare at the big old hotel where Laguna is, and thats how I started going to Brigantine/Atlantic City.

 

[KembaKek]

Worth the read...




Alternate access link here <<

-> The Connecticut Lottery Corp. is zeroing in on downtown Hartford’s XL Center as the spot for a major sports betting venue that has the potential for boosting the long-debated renovation of the aging arena.

But the lottery, which will control the location of 15 sports betting venues in Connecticut under the new sports and online gambling law, said it expects to first look to smaller locations in the Hartford area to offer sports gambling sooner to the betting public. Legislative leaders say the first betting could begin as early as the start of the NFL season on Sept. 9.

Rob Simmelkjaer, chairman of the lottery’s board and former executive at ESPN and NBCSports, said sports betting at the XL Center would be part of a larger venue. Gambling would be combined with dining, bars, and other entertainment options, possibly including esports, video-based gaming in which participants compete against one another, Simmelkjaer said. <-

-> Simmelkjaer said the focus on placing one of the state’s two larger sports betting sites at the XL Center came from the governor. “The governor has made it clear that he is looking to do something big there and wants to find a way to have sports betting help the development of that location, a part of a development progress plan for the XL Center,” Simmelkjaer said. <-

Is this really even likely to happen at this point? I'm starting to lose most hope in the future of XL. In the past 4 years or so, i've seen the "possibility" of a $250 Million renovation in 2017, then a possible private investor purchase, then the possible purchase by the tribes, now this. Nothing has happened yet. Starting to look more to me like we're gonna lose this place eventually.