OT: Good books

[CL82]

You don't need to:

There is a whole book about it and more. Written by the guy who was the head historian at Gettysburg.

A Killer Angels Companion

The popularity of Michael Shaara's Pulitzer Prize winni…

www.goodreads.com

Not really worth bumping this thread, but I couldn't send you a PM. I did buy this book, though book may be too much word, it's more of a paper. It was an interesting read. The author absolutely confirms the 20th Maine's stand on little Round Top and the bayonet charge. he does say that the later use of the 20th Maine to defend Pickets charge is fictional though.

In any event, thanks for the recommendation. It was an interesting read. Like most people, I would imagine, the 20th Maine's stand on Little Round Top is one of my favorite parts of The Killer Angels. I would enjoy the book, regardless, but I am glad it is based in historical fact.

 

[ZooCougar]

Not really worth bumping this thread, but I couldn't send you a PM. I did buy this book, the book may be too much word, it's more of a paper. It was an interesting read. The author absolutely confirms the 20th Maine's stand on little Round Top and the bayonet charge. he does say that the later use of the 20th Maine to defend Pickets charge is fictional though.

In any event, thanks for the recommendation. It was an interesting read. Like most people, I would imagine, the 20th Maine's stand on Little Round Top is one of my favorite parts of The Killer Angels. I would enjoy the book, regardless, but I am glad it is based in historical fact.

On a podcast he said the swinging gate deal was nonsense. Whatever bayonet charge there was it was nothing novel like Shaara indicated.

Shaara had a funny way of promoting these guys. Like he seems to indicate that Longstreet invented trenches and fortifications. I’m sure the Romans giggled reading that book in heaven.

Also Buford wasn’t the first guy to discover skirmishing and cavalry fighting dismounted.

The Killer Angels is a nice gateway drug into Civil War history. And Gettysburg is a great adaptation but accuracy wise it’s just OK and that’s it.

 

[CL82]

On a podcast he said the swinging gate deal was nonsense. Whatever bayonet charge there was it was nothing novel like Shaara indicated.

Shaara had a funny way of promoting these guys. Like he seems to indicate that Longstreet invented trenches and fortifications. I’m sure the Romans giggled reading that book in heaven.

Also Buford wasn’t the first guy to discover skirmishing and cavalry fighting dismounted.

The Killer Angels is a nice gateway drug into Civil War history. And Gettysburg is a great adaptation but accuracy wise it’s just OK and that’s it.

I think you were conflating wheeling around a pivot point and the bayonette charge. What the author of the paper you recommended said was that Chamberlain wouldn't have to explain the wagon wheel send to his officers who were experienced soldiers at that time. It's obvious that. Shaara has him do that for the readers benefit. But, in fact, the bayonet charge is a big part of the battle of Gettysburg. it happened, and was pivotal to the defense little round top. Again, I'm just finishing up that pamphlet, the author of your citing doesn't dispute that it happened.

Longstreet is a fascinating character in Civil War history. He has his advocates and detractors. He largely suffers from the fact that he was critical of Robert E Lee after the war in his memoirs. Once that happened, many people turned on him.

Have to go, but we'll talk about this more later

 

[ZooCougar]

I think you were conflating wheeling around a pivot point and the bayonette charge. What the author of the paper you recommended said was that Chamberlain wouldn't have to explain the wagon wheel send to his officers who were experienced soldiers at that time. It's obvious that. Shaara has him do that for the readers benefit. But, in fact, the bayonet charge is a big part of the battle of Gettysburg. it happened, and was pivotal to the defense little round top. Again, I'm just finishing up that pamphlet, the author of your citing doesn't dispute that it happened.

Longstreet is a fascinating character in Civil War history. He has his advocates and detractors. He largely suffers from the fact that he was critical of Robert E Lee after the war in his memoirs. Once that happened, many people turned on him.

Have to go, but we'll talk about this more later

And many historians don’t think it was as pivotal and many think Chamberlain was self aggrandizing blowhard who happened to live long enough to write history in his favor.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think you were conflating wheeling around a pivot point and the bayonette charge. What the author of the paper you recommended said was that Chamberlain wouldn't have to explain the wagon wheel send to his officers who were experienced soldiers at that time. It's obvious that. Shaara has him do that for the readers benefit. But, in fact, the bayonet charge is a big part of the battle of Gettysburg. it happened, and was pivotal to the defense little round top. Again, I'm just finishing up that pamphlet, the author of your citing doesn't dispute that it happened.

Longstreet is a fascinating character in Civil War history. He has his advocates and detractors. He largely suffers from the fact that he was critical of Robert E Lee after the war in his memoirs. Once that happened, many people turned on him.

Have to go, but we'll talk about this more later

Longstreet was considered the Third Ranking Confederate behind Davis and Lee. He was related to US Grant by marriage and they were close. When Grant went broke Longstreet have him money.

He became a Republican and led Militia Troops that had African Americans in it against southern extremists in actual combat in New Orleans during Reonstruction.

For this the Lost Causers saw this as a betrayal and they mounted and information campaign that was really effective to scapegoat him.

The Lost Causers were very effective at controlling the message for 100+ years. Shaara was really good at rehabilitating Longstreet. And characterized him as some sort of clairvoyant. But all we have to do is look at Longstreet’s comically bad solo campaign in Tennessee to know what that he could be nearly as clueless as anyone.

I have the new Elizabeth Varon book on Longstreet and the Guelzo book on Lee on the list to read this winter. If you want an elite book to read about Gettysburg then pick up Guelzo’s book.

 

[CL82]

Longstreet was considered the Third Ranking Confederate behind Davis and Lee. He was related to US Grant by marriage and they were close. When Grant went broke Longstreet have him money.

He became a Republican and led Militia Troops that had African Americans in it against southern extremists in actual combat in New Orleans during Reonstruction.

For this the Lost Causers saw this as a betrayal and they mounted and information campaign that was really effective to scapegoat him.

The Lost Causers were very effective at controlling the message for 100+ years. Shaara was really good at rehabilitating Longstreet. And characterized him as some sort of clairvoyant. But all we have to do is look at Longstreet’s comically bad solo campaign in Tennessee to know what that he could be nearly as clueless as anyone.

I have the new Elizabeth Varon book on Longstreet and the Guelzo book on Lee on the list to read this winter. If you want an elite book to read about Gettysburg then pick up Guelzo’s book.

His biggest unforgivable sin wasn't any of the battles that were lost, maybe it wasn't even his criticism of Lee, but instead, post war becoming a Republican.

 

[JerseyAlum]

The Miracle of St. Anthony is great if you haven't read that yet. Written by Woj, follows Bob Hurley/St Anthony for a season

Yes, got it signed by Bob - benefits of living in Jersey City.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

I'm on a WW2 tear. Read "The Rape of Nanking," the books that "Masters of the Air" and "The Pacific" are based on. Also bought a book written by Frank Zappa's daughter talking about growing up with her Dad that I'm interested in getting into.

 

[ZooCougar]

His biggest unforgivable sin wasn't any of the battles that were lost, maybe it wasn't even his criticism of Lee, but instead, post war becoming a Republican.

Also his last wife died in ‘60s. Like the 1960s.

 

[storrsroars]

Also bought a book written by Frank Zappa's daughter talking about growing up with her Dad that I'm interested in getting into.

Have seen Moon on a couple of podcasts recently. She's an interesting listen. I imagine the book is pretty good.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I started reading the Witcher series finally. Watching the show and playing the games really gave me the sense that I needed to get into the details of things.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I'm about halfway through The Lincoln Highway by Amor Towles. I like it very much!

 

[CL82]

And many historians don’t think it was as pivotal and many think Chamberlain was self aggrandizing blowhard who happened to live long enough to write history in his favor.

Actually, I haven't seen a single historian voice that opinion. It's not as if the battle of Gettysburg was the only achievement in his life. He rose to become a brigadier general and then a major general, forsaking a private career for one of public service. He later went on to become governor of Maine and president of the Bowdoin College. Eventually, Congress gave him the medal of honor for gallantry in his service at Gettysburg. His courage is undisputed as he was wounded several times on the battlefield, often thought to be mortal wounds, only to come back to fight again.

Ironically, Chamberlain may be best known for his graciousness in victory. A few weeks after Lee's surrender at Appomattox, Chamberlain, and his troops were poised to receive the surrendering confederates. As major general John B Gordon, known as the fiery commander of the confederate second corps rode by with his head bow and eyes cast down Chamberlain was moved by the momentous nature of the occasion. He ordered his bugler to have his troops "order arms" and "carry" (that is how marching soldiers would salute a dignitary at the time) as the confederates passed. General Gordon recognize the bugle call, his head snapped up, and he turned around and ordered his troops to reciprocate the gesture. What had begun as a humiliating ceremony of surrender morphed into a statement of mutual respect. Probably not the act of a "self-aggrandizing blow hard", but entirely consistent with a medal of honor winning "officer and a gentleman."

 

[JerseyAlum]

Heard Day of the Jackal was being remade to a TV series - prompted me to go back and read that 1971 gem.

 

[Gutter King]

Audible listeners: Shantaram is free until 10/28

Here are my recommendations by genre:

Health: 10% Human - Alanna Collen <--- most important
Fantasy: The First Law Trilogy - Joe Abercrombie...this is an incredible series and an even more incredible audible performance.
Classics: Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandre Dumas....I've read this thing like three times, the use of language is captivating to me.
Conspiracy: - Dr. Mary's Monkey - Ed Haslam...about the connection between Polio Vax/New Orleans Bio-Warfare Lab and Lee Harvey Oswalt
War: Matterhorn - Karl Marlantes
Self Help: Zig Ziglar
Autobiography: Shoe Dog - Phil Knight
Cajones: Endurance - Alfred Lansing

Also anything by Terence McKenna and anything with Sherlock Holmes

 

[ZooCougar]

Actually, I haven't seen a single historian voice that opinion. It's not as if the battle of Gettysburg was the only achievement in his life. He rose to become a brigadier general and then a major general, forsaking a private career for one of public service. He later went on to become governor of Maine and president of the Bowdoin College. Eventually, Congress gave him the medal of honor for gallantry in his service at Gettysburg. His courage is undisputed as he was wounded several times on the battlefield, often thought to be mortal wounds, only to come back to fight again.

Ironically, Chamberlain may be best known for his graciousness in victory. A few weeks after Lee's surrender at Appomattox, Chamberlain, and his troops were poised to receive the surrendering confederates. As major general John B Gordon, known as the fiery commander of the confederate second corps rode by with his head bow and eyes cast down Chamberlain was moved by the momentous nature of the occasion. He ordered his bugler to have his troops "order arms" and "carry" (that is how marching soldiers would salute a dignitary at the time) as the confederates passed. General Gordon recognize the bugle call, his head snapped up, and he turned around and ordered his troops to reciprocate the gesture. What had begun as a humiliating ceremony of surrender morphed into a statement of mutual respect. Probably not the act of a "self-aggrandizing blow hard", but entirely consistent with a medal of honor winning "officer and a gentleman."

You need to read more history.

The whole story about he and his men receiving Lee at Appomattox quite possibly never happened.

He was a nice old man who lived for quite a while and every time he wrote a little more the stories became a little more fantastic. I’m a huge skeptic.

 

[CL82]

You need to read more history.

The whole story about he and his men receiving Lee at Appomattox quite possibly never happened.

He was a nice old man who lived for quite a while and every time he wrote a little more the stories became a little more fantastic. I’m a huge skeptic.

I guess that's possible, but the historian you predicated this whole discussion upon (and in the booklet that you specifically mentioned) states it as a fact so... do you think he's credible or not?

 

[HuskyDevil]

Actually, I haven't seen a single historian voice that opinion. It's not as if the battle of Gettysburg was the only achievement in his life. He rose to become a brigadier general and then a major general, forsaking a private career for one of public service. He later went on to become governor of Maine and president of the Bowdoin College. Eventually, Congress gave him the medal of honor for gallantry in his service at Gettysburg. His courage is undisputed as he was wounded several times on the battlefield, often thought to be mortal wounds, only to come back to fight again.

Ironically, Chamberlain may be best known for his graciousness in victory. A few weeks after Lee's surrender at Appomattox, Chamberlain, and his troops were poised to receive the surrendering confederates. As major general John B Gordon, known as the fiery commander of the confederate second corps rode by with his head bow and eyes cast down Chamberlain was moved by the momentous nature of the occasion. He ordered his bugler to have his troops "order arms" and "carry" (that is how marching soldiers would salute a dignitary at the time) as the confederates passed. General Gordon recognize the bugle call, his head snapped up, and he turned around and ordered his troops to reciprocate the gesture. What had begun as a humiliating ceremony of surrender morphed into a statement of mutual respect. Probably not the act of a "self-aggrandizing blow hard", but entirely consistent with a medal of honor winning "officer and a gentleman."

Love these detailed nuggets of info...keep 'em coming!

 

[ZooCougar]

I guess that's possible, but the historian you predicated this whole discussion upon (and in the booklet that you specifically mentioned) states it as a fact so... do you think he's credible or not?

In that book he stated the Lee thing as a fact? Are you sure?

Amongst Park Rangers and historians it’s not universally believed. Chamberlain changed his story several times.

And CSA General Gordon’s corroborating testimony is also viewed skeptically.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/chamberlain-gordon-salute-fiction.189132/?amp=1

 

[John]

Act of Oblivion by Robert Harris - Connecticut-based historical novel, very good read.

 

[CL82]

Audible listeners: Shantaram is free until 10/28

Here are my recommendations by genre:

Health: 10% Human - Alanna Collen <--- most important
Fantasy: The First Law Trilogy - Joe Abercrombie...this is an incredible series and an even more incredible audible performance.
Classics: Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandre Dumas....I've read this thing like three times, the use of language is captivating to me.
Conspiracy: - Dr. Mary's Monkey - Ed Haslam...about the connection between Polio Vax/New Orleans Bio-Warfare Lab and Lee Harvey Oswalt
War: Matterhorn - Karl Marlantes
Self Help: Zig Ziglar
Autobiography: Shoe Dog - Phil Knight
Cajones: Endurance - Alfred Lansing

Also anything by Terence McKenna and anything with Sherlock Holmes

The Count of Monte Cristo is a great book. The movie with James Caviezel is very good as well.

 

[ZooCougar]

The Count of Monte Cristo is a great book. The movie with James Caviezel is very good as well.

The movie is stop what you are doing and watch the movie until it’s over good. Super underrated.

 

[CL82]

In that book he stated the Lee thing as a fact? Are you sure?

Amongst Park Rangers and historians it’s not universally believed. Chamberlain changed his story several times.

And CSA General Gordon’s corroborating testimony is also viewed skeptically.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/chamberlain-gordon-salute-fiction.189132/?amp=1

Yes it was in "A Companion to the Killer Angels" which you recommended to me. At the end of the book, they do a brief bio on all the major characters.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yes it was in "A Companion to the Killer Angels" which you recommended to me. At the end of the book, they do a brief bio on all the major characters.

I don’t buy the story. Pretty much the only source that corroborates it is Chamberlain. It’s way too good to be true, particularly the part about Gordon’s horse. It’s like the whole idea that the battle started because Heth was out looking for shoes.

 

[CL82]

I don’t buy the story. Pretty much the only source that corroborates it is Chamberlain. It’s way too good to be true, particularly the part about Gordon’s horse. It’s like the whole idea that the battle started because Heth was out looking for shoes.

OK, you can be a denier about anything you want, but, the historian that you cited to start this discussion, states it as fact.