Gerritt Cole

[storrsroars]

Please, Morton was a no one then boom, the Astros.

Lol, you're naive.

Morton always had a ton of movement, and an inability to control it when needed. He also was labeled a "head case" as he tended to overthink things - which was why his post-game interviews were always interesting. The Pirates organizational philosophy had him throwing mostly 2-seamers, earning him the moniker "Ground Chuck" as he didn't K many, but induced a lot of ground balls. Ray Searage didn't want him throwing a cutter and also had him cease throwing his slider. Thus he had nothing to work with vs LH batters, who routinely killed him.

He started throwing more 4-seamers and increased his velocity a couple ticks at the end of the '15 season, and continued that improvement in ST and April with the Phillies in '16. When he got to Houston he was throwing predominately 4-seamers, brought back his cutter, which he now throws 10% of the time, and increased usage of his wicked curve, at the same time moving to a different arm slot resulting in another tick of velo. Tampa had him decrease usage of his change in favor of more curves.

It's all there in the metrics.

FTR, here are Morton's spin rates with the Phils in 2016 vs Astros in 2018 vs Rays in 2020:
4-seam: 2327 / 2243 / 2349
Curve: 2973 / 2923 / 2887
Sinker: 1951 / 2109 / 2157

Does that look even remotely like that kind of spin rate increase that Cole and others have has using Spider Grip or whatever? No, it does not. I've followed Morton for years and he's always been a favorite because he's an oddball and disarmingly honest. You guys have probably never seen a single interview with him, nor were even aware of his history with Pirates and how they kept screwing him up. But go ahead and just lump him in with everyone else because it's convenient to do so.

 

[Waquoit]

Not sure I’d classify doctoring the ball in the same category as chemically altering your body or using electronic surveillance, but everyone can draw the line where they please.

Doctoring the ball is worse

 

[superjohn]

Morton always had a ton of movement, and an inability to control it when needed. He also was labeled a "head case" as he tended to overthink things - which was why his post-game interviews were always interesting. The Pirates organizational philosophy had him throwing mostly 2-seamers, earning him the moniker "Ground Chuck" as he didn't K many, but induced a lot of ground balls. Ray Searage didn't want him throwing a cutter and also had him cease throwing his slider. Thus he had nothing to work with vs LH batters, who routinely killed him.

He started throwing more 4-seamers and increased his velocity a couple ticks at the end of the '15 season, and continued that improvement in ST and April with the Phillies in '16. When he got to Houston he was throwing predominately 4-seamers, brought back his cutter, which he now throws 10% of the time, and increased usage of his wicked curve, at the same time moving to a different arm slot resulting in another tick of velo. Tampa had him decrease usage of his change in favor of more curves.

It's all there in the metrics.

FTR, here are Morton's spin rates with the Phils in 2016 vs Astros in 2018 vs Rays in 2020:
4-seam: 2327 / 2243 / 2349
Curve: 2973 / 2923 / 2887
Sinker: 1951 / 2109 / 2157

Does that look even remotely like that kind of spin rate increase that Cole and others have has using Spider Grip or whatever? No, it does not. I've followed Morton for years and he's always been a favorite because he's an oddball and disarmingly honest. You guys have probably never seen a single interview with him, nor were even aware of his history with Pirates and how they kept screwing him up. But go ahead and just lump him in with everyone else because it's convenient to do so.

You're looking way too much into this, they all do it. This reminds me of people looking at players bodies and #'s to determine who was using PED's and who wasn't.

I've followed Morton's entire career and have seen tons of interviews with him, I'm a huge fan of his. I follow the careers of every single pro CT. athlete.

 

[mauconnfan]

Morton always had a ton of movement, and an inability to control it when needed. He also was labeled a "head case" as he tended to overthink things - which was why his post-game interviews were always interesting. The Pirates organizational philosophy had him throwing mostly 2-seamers, earning him the moniker "Ground Chuck" as he didn't K many, but induced a lot of ground balls. Ray Searage didn't want him throwing a cutter and also had him cease throwing his slider. Thus he had nothing to work with vs LH batters, who routinely killed him.

He started throwing more 4-seamers and increased his velocity a couple ticks at the end of the '15 season, and continued that improvement in ST and April with the Phillies in '16. When he got to Houston he was throwing predominately 4-seamers, brought back his cutter, which he now throws 10% of the time, and increased usage of his wicked curve, at the same time moving to a different arm slot resulting in another tick of velo. Tampa had him decrease usage of his change in favor of more curves.

It's all there in the metrics.

FTR, here are Morton's spin rates with the Phils in 2016 vs Astros in 2018 vs Rays in 2020:
4-seam: 2327 / 2243 / 2349
Curve: 2973 / 2923 / 2887
Sinker: 1951 / 2109 / 2157

Does that look even remotely like that kind of spin rate increase that Cole and others have has using Spider Grip or whatever? No, it does not. I've followed Morton for years and he's always been a favorite because he's an oddball and disarmingly honest. You guys have probably never seen a single interview with him, nor were even aware of his history with Pirates and how they kept screwing him up. But go ahead and just lump him in with everyone else because it's convenient to do so.

LOL forgot you were an expert. My bad! No one doctors the ball but Cole now that he's a Yankee. What was I thinking?

 

[mauconnfan]

Doctoring the ball is worse

Hilarious. Knowing what pitch is coming to a major league hitter is just a small advantage suddenly to Sox and Astros fans. My God this is funny!

 

[storrsroars]

What was I thinking?

You weren't as far as Morton is concerned.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

MLB is about to drop the hammer on doctoring balls and Cole just stumbled into becoming the face of it. Guessing MLB has decided that this is the one thing they can change to juice up the hitting a bit and lower the strikeouts. My guess is that we start to see a decent drop in spin rates once this is implemented. I agree that the strikeout rate is in part related to guys swinging for the fences but the spin rate is part of it as well.

 

[storrsroars]

Hilarious. Knowing what pitch is coming a major league hitter is just a small advantage suddenly to Sox and Astros fans. My God this is funny!

I know how to prove which is the bigger advantage... give Gallagher some Spider Tack and let's replay the CMU elimination game.

 

[boog204]

Don't really like Bauer even though I think some of the stuff he does is beneficial to the game. But in his defense he only started doing it after he called people out for it and said it was an unfair advantage and then nobody did anything about it.

This was Bonds view, too except his was jealousy of the notoriety that lesser places like McGwire and Sosa were getting over him.

 

[Psolo12]

This was Bonds view, too except his was jealousy of the notoriety that lesser places like McGwire and Sosa were getting over him.

In this case I'm not so sure its jealousy of notoriety instead of just trying to compete at the highest level with their peers. However, Bauer really does not like Cole so it's possible in his case it's out of disdain for Cole.

 

[mauconnfan]

I know how to prove which is the bigger advantage... give Gallagher some Spider Tack and let's replay the CMU elimination game.

Gallagher? You mean smashing watermelons?

I don’t need proof of what the bigger advantage is a pitcher can use any advantage he wants if a ML hitter knows what’s coming he’s going to hit it hard quite often. Or take the pitch as require despite movement.

 

[storrsroars]

Gallagher? You mean smashing watermelons?

Pat Gallagher, who, in the most important game of the year, was tipping his pitches so they looked like watermelons to the hitters.

 

[Icculus]

Nice try Red Sox/Astros fans.
Nobody buys your sanctimonious over-reaction. It's not going to distract anyone from what your teams did.
Pitchers have been altering the baseball with foreign substances (or an emery board) since the dawn of time. The Hall of Fame is full of pitchers who did this. Heck, there was probably some pine tar on the rock that David slung at Goliath. It is in no way comparable to taking steroids to the point that your actual head gets bigger or using tv cameras in the outfield to systematically steal signs.

 

[Waquoit]

Hilarious. Knowing what pitch is coming to a major league hitter is just a small advantage suddenly to Sox and Astros fans. My God this is funny!

I never had a problem with stealing signs, even when Bobby Thompson did it. Have better signs.

 

[jibsey]

There is a difference in the way the Red Sox and Astros stole signs and pitchers using adhesives to improve spin rate. The Astros appeared to be wired with an electronic setup. Different.

 

[UCDaveD]

I never had a problem with stealing signs, even when Bobby Thompson did it. Have better signs.

Have better signs? What exactly do you suppose they do, use telekinesis?

 

[Waquoit]

Nice try Red Sox/Astros fans.
Nobody buys your sanctimonious over-reaction.

No one more sanctimonious then a Yankee fan. They still don't think Reggie Jackson stuck his ass out on purpose.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Nice try Red Sox/Astros fans.
Nobody buys your sanctimonious over-reaction. It's not going to distract anyone from what your teams did.
Pitchers have been altering the baseball with foreign substances (or an emery board) since the dawn of time. The Hall of Fame is full of pitchers who did this. Heck, there was probably some pine tar on the rock that David slung at Goliath. It is in no way comparable to taking steroids to the point that your actual head gets bigger or using tv cameras in the outfield to systematically steal signs.

This is a funny post. Sports make people say stupid things.

 

[The Viking]

This pitching stuff is just as performance altering as steroids were. The only difference is putting something in your body compared to on your body.
Take a look at batting averages and how they plummet as the spin rates get higher. Its in a lot of these articles now.
I give credit for baseball trying to end it and suspect offensive numbers will start to rise significantly in the next 2-3 weeks...between this and the hot weather

 

[Scoe]

Um, wrong.
Cheating is Cheating.
Period.

You seemingly are say some people are better cheaters than others. They're all bad.

Um, wrong.
Cheating is Cheating.
Period.

You seemingly are say some people are better cheaters than others. They're all bad.

I don’t advocate cheating I know it has always gone on and will continue too. I was joking about bringing back steroids btw. The Astros level of cheating is on a whole other level.

 

[Samoo]

Every UConn or basketball thread here goes off the rails after 10 posts, yet you guys are somehow able to stay on subject about something completely unrelated to basketball or UConn for three full pages. This site never ceases to amaze me...

 

[djct1999]

I find football close to unwatchable now.

Not if you play fantasy and watch the RedZone. Seven hours of commercial free football is awesome in the fall/winter.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The reason averages are so low is because MLB and it’s franchises has been incentivizing the HR. Teams would rather have a guy with a .230 BA, 40 HR, 100 RBI, and 150 K’s than a guy who hits .310, 5 HR, 40 RBI, 30 SB and 75 K’s.

It’s not the pitcher’s fault (or the field dimension’s fault) that a hitter down 0-2 doesn’t look to make contact to send it opposite field. The game has changed for the worse within the last 5-10 years because of this power-minded approach.

Yeah I don't think this is right. Homeruns are down over the past half decade. Velocity is way up. In the 70s guys weren't throwing 90 mph sliders on the black. the percentage of pitchers hitting high 90s is through the roof compared to prior generations.

 

[Psolo12]

Yeah I don't think this is right. Homeruns are down over the past half decade. Velocity is way up. In the 70s guys weren't throwing 90 mph sliders on the black. the percentage of pitchers hitting high 90s is through the roof compared to prior generations.

Agreed on this, also seeing alot of different arms/arm slots based on the increased importance of relievers makes a big difference. And they all throw 95+ now.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah I don't think this is right. Homeruns are down over the past half decade. Velocity is way up. In the 70s guys weren't throwing 90 mph sliders on the black. the percentage of pitchers hitting high 90s is through the roof compared to prior generations.

Is that accurate? It's my understanding 4 of the last 5 full seasons in MLB have the largest homerun totals in the history of baseball.