Geno's use of Subs

[EricSD]

FWIW, i don't think it's an issue of Geno not developing Heather. i think it's an issue of Heather not developing. there's a subtle but important difference. as Cat pointed out, Heather herself has admitted she doesn't know why. and it's not defense, it's offense. even as a freshman, Kiah apparently was a better defender than Heather, and she was more capable of scoring, even tho she didn't do a ton of it.

look at Heather's production towards the end of the year when she got in during blowout games. it's not like she was a scoring machine. in fact, I'd say Michala was a better offensive player than Heather was. Michala looked for her shot and drove to the basket when she got the ball.

i mean this as no diss on Heather, but after 4 years of college (1 red shirt year) she still lacks the ability to be offensive-minded when on the court. When you have players like Kelly and Caroline who aren't consistent scorers, putting Heather in makes no sense.

next year, whole different ball game. projecting how the freshmen might fare is a tough call, but i think it's fair to expect Bree to have at least a KML or Liz Williams type of impact. AT LEAST. Moriah is electrifying, and Geno has admitted she is probably going to be good enough as a freshman to start (not that she would, but that she's good enough to). And I think Morgan will have a better season than Kiah did.

i'm still not sure why people are so "hung up" on who starts. i don't mean that to be critical of people, but really what difference does it make? if UCONN needs more offense in "big" games, then it's unlikely you will see Caroline and Kelly on the floor for long stretches together. if UCONN starts CD, Bria, Kelly, KML and Stef, Geno could certainly sub Bree for Caroline or Kelly pretty quickly if he needs more offense. i'm betting Bree averages 25 MPG and Morgan and Moriah close to 20... and i'm betting Kelly and Caroline's minutes decrease a bit...

 

[doggydaddy]

Fixed it for ya.

How obnoxious.

 

[UConnCat]

BTW ND only played 6 players in their game against UConn and Baylor

That's not accurate. McGraw played both Achonwa and Markisha Wright in the first half last night against Baylor. Playing Wright was necessitated by Peters' foul trouble but she played 19 minutes in the game and played pretty well.

 

[Bestiarius]

You don't cut players. It's not the WNBA.

I love this aspect of the game. Coaches must live with their mistakes, or better still, make a silk purse. Makes recruiting all the more important. The objective is to get a degree and playing ball is a great thing to have on one's resume.

 

[jsloanjr]

Who cares what Geno should have done with his bench. The real question, why do players come to UCONN to sit on the bench if they are only used to fill out chairs and chap. All the players who see zero minutes need to ask themselves why?..Can I play somewhere else? Or, do I need to improve my game to demand more minutes in the 2012-2013 season.....This season id done......Put up or shut up or Go home........

 

[meyers7]

i'm still not sure why people are so "hung up" on who starts. i don't mean that to be critical of people, but really what difference does it make? if UCONN needs more offense in "big" games, then it's unlikely you will see Caroline and Kelly on the floor for long stretches together. if UCONN starts CD, Bria, Kelly, KML and Stef, Geno could certainly sub Bree for Caroline or Kelly pretty quickly if he needs more offense. i'm betting Bree averages 25 MPG and Morgan and Moriah close to 20... and i'm betting Kelly and Caroline's minutes decrease a bit...

Agreed, starting Doty and Faris, didn't limit KML' s minutes. She got lots of minutes, especially for a freshman. She avg about 28 per game. Moore avg about 29 per game as a freshman.

If you are good enough, you'll get minutes whether you start or not.

 

[doggydaddy]

Who cares what Geno should have done with his bench. The real question, why do players come to UCONN to sit on the bench if they are only used to fill out chairs and chap. All the players who see zero minutes need to ask themselves why?..Can I play somewhere else? Or, do I need to improve my game to demand more minutes in the 2012-2013 season.....This season id done......Put up or shut up or Go home........

We only see the games. There are hours and hours of practice where players get to play against he best and be coached by the best. Fill out chairs and chap? What a load of crap. (yes, I'm obnoxious).

You don't think players look at how the last season went before deciding what they want out of next season?

Put up or shut up or go home? Wow...what a pathetic statement.

 

[Sonny44]

So let me just play the devils advocate for a minute. If Geno "really' believed that Heather, Michala and Lauren as you say "haven't proved they can compete at these levels" and this is after 2 or 3 years then why wouldn't Geno just cut these players from his roster and recruit 3 new players who he "believes can compete at this level". I love all three of these kids but if I carry your statement to its logical conclusion then I have to think that he should part ways with those who can't compete and find three who can.

You also need enough players to have meaningful practices.

 

[Wonkster]

.
Ask THIS guy about using subs
.

 

[5sidedlarry]

Someone touched on this is another thread, but allow me to express my thoughts.

When Dolson got in foul trouble against ND, my first thought was, too bad Geno didn't have enough confidence in Heather to put her in.

We got some insight into Geno's thinking after the Kentucky game. One of Mitchell's strategies was to play eleven players against Uconn and wear Uconn out. When questioned about this, Geno retorted: “You can only play five at a time.”, and “When they substituted, Kentucky got weaker.”

But, there are at least two problems with only playing six players in a playoff game: players get tired and need a breather, and players get in foul trouble and you are forced to take them out.

As a former coach, I believed in developing and utilizing all my players. Then again, no one paid me specifically to win games. That being said, I think Geno bears some responsibility for not developing Heather to the point where he could have confidence to use her in a playoff game.

So, let's look at next year. Five starters coming back (counting KML.) Then Kiah, and to a lesser extent Brianna. That's seven, plus three freshmen. Personally, I don't see Heather, Michala, or Lauren getting any significant playing time next year, but I would be more than happy to be wrong.

Will Geno extend his bench for playoff type games? Based on past experience, I would think not. But it will be interesting to see if he does.

You can tell by body lang. that most of the players coming off the bench are not into the game, especially if they only come in with a few minutes left and there is no possible way they can lose.I didn't understand a few things about Geno first when we were ahead why did he didn't have any post players in,why he didn't call time out and why does he have a freshmen in there trying to rebound..Doty was under also but fell down and with her knee she is questonable to even play,she should play short periods of times..what happen with all the coach don"t they say anything..Poor job by Geno and his team

Igive them all the credit in the world nobody expected them to be in the final four..After seeing Notre Dame play Baylor yesterday you could see N.D. was intimadated and that even hurts more for Uconn

 

[5sidedlarry]

You also need enough players to have meaningful practices.

They don"t cut bench players if they did when players are being recurited and they know they are not superstars and saw that you cut if you don't live up to your potential you will be cut ,they won't come to Uconn.
As far as practice players goes they boys to practice so they have more than enough

 

[BrianBoru]

A player doesn't just change his/her shot overnight, particularly after shooting a certain way for 10 years and when spending every ounce of energy on recovering from a 3rd acl surgery and working on the ability to run and cut. Also, Caroline's shot didn't really abandon her until the 2nd half of the season. A comparison to Conlon makes little sense; two different players with different shots and vastly different knees.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Doty fan, I think she brings terrific intangibles, leadership and toughness to team. My point with the comparison to Conlon was to emphasis that Maria was an effective 3-point shooter eventhough she didn't have the athletisism to get her own shoot, she was usually the beneficiary of a kick-out after ball wet into paint area and the defensive player was draw away from her. I could see Caroline, even after her acl's, still more athletic than Conlon, being a similar 3-point threat. As I mention, any you reiterated, they do have very different styles as shooters, and Caroline may indeed have difficulty transforming her shooting style, or may hust need more time, and after a year of relative health with her knee, hopefully she progresses further for next season. Also, Caroline's 3-point shooting was pretty consistent this year, there wasn't an apreciative drop off as season progressed.

 

[ochoopsfan]

So what happened to Heather Buck?
I went back to the thread from the UConn v Baylor game in December and Heather played 14 minutes and played great defense. The Boneyarders were applauding her effort.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/game-thread-baylor.9338/

So what what happened after that game that she got splinters most of the rest of the year? I am sure she could have been used somewhere down the line.

I cant question Genos career results. However, his use of this years teams players is not that good. There were plenty of games that you could have put any of the subs in, and I am not talking about garbage time in the last three minutes of the game. Maybe you dont do it against the Baylors or ND's, but against any other team, (maybe not theSt Johns game) you still would have won the game and given the players confidence of playing. Buck, Johnson, Engeln, etc would be starting players for most of the teams that you played during the year. Yet they arent good enough to play at the "UConn level" against these same teams?. So instead of winning by 30 points UConn wins by 15 points. I dont think it matters vs Baylor as they were winning this years championship, but using a deeper bench vs ND might have got you to the championship game. I dont understand why any of these girls would stick around for the rest of their college years. They arent going to play in any important games and if they want to ever further their careers, i.e., playing overseas after college, then transfer now, so you still can be noticed. Sending game action CD's from garbage time isnt going to get you anywhere.

 

[meyers7]

I dont understand why any of these girls would stick around for the rest of their college years. They arent going to play in any important games and if they want to ever further their careers, i.e., playing overseas after college, then transfer now, so you still can be noticed. Sending game action CD's from garbage time isnt going to get you anywhere.

 

[doggydaddy]

So what happened to Heather Buck?
I went back to the thread from the UConn v Baylor game in December and Heather played 14 minutes and played great defense. The Boneyarders were applauding her effort.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/game-thread-baylor.9338/

So what what happened after that game that she got splinters most of the rest of the year? I am sure she could have been used somewhere down the line.

I cant question Genos career results. However, his use of this years teams players is not that good. There were plenty of games that you could have put any of the subs in, and I am not talking about garbage time in the last three minutes of the game. Maybe you dont do it against the Baylors or ND's, but against any other team, (maybe not theSt Johns game) you still would have won the game and given the players confidence of playing. Buck, Johnson, Engeln, etc would be starting players for most of the teams that you played during the year. Yet they arent good enough to play at the "UConn level" against these same teams?. So instead of winning by 30 points UConn wins by 15 points. I dont think it matters vs Baylor as they were winning this years championship, but using a deeper bench vs ND might have got you to the championship game. I dont understand why any of these girls would stick around for the rest of their college years. They arent going to play in any important games and if they want to ever further their careers, i.e., playing overseas after college, then transfer now, so you still can be noticed. Sending game action CD's from garbage time isnt going to get you anywhere.

What I don't understand is posters questioning what kids want out of their college experience.

If someone is not happy, they will leave. If not, they will stay. Isn't that good enough with posters trying to figure it out?

 

[Zorro]

Or questioning whether the best coach in wcbb knows what the hell he is doing.

 

[John Fryer]

Or questioning whether the best coach in wcbb knows what the hell he is doing.

And sometimes the "the best coach in wcbb" will make a mistake.

As in the final minute in the ND FF game. (Not having Kiah in the game when all we needed was a defensive rebound.
Or in not calling a TO to set-up an end of game play.)

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[msf22b]

The problem as Doggy has addressed is that we are like the prisoners of Plato's Allegory of the Cave. We see only a minute portion of the reality of these esteemed young woman for whom we have admiration, respect and devotion. We see Heather for a few minutes here, Michala for an even lesser amount there. We are permitted virtually no insight into the process of preparation that makes up the bulk of their effort. Geno's oft-repeated maxim that game time is earned in practice is a reasonable enough pronouncement. The problem for the fan base is that we must take his evaluations of this un-transparent process on blind faith.

It is possible that had a group of us been allowed to follow the team in toto, there might very well have been legitimate questions with regard the process of development and participation of our secondary players. But for the moment, that reality is Plato's shadows, we are substantially uninformed.

What we are able to conclude is that two sophomores, a red-shirt junior and a highly regarded freshman are at present not deemed to be ready for "prime time"

The argument that 5-7 players is the optimal rotation has been usurped by our Brethren in the professional ranks. The New York Team has been quite successful (baring injuries) in making use of a ten-man rotation. Perhaps here is a principle that more college coaches might want to consider.

Next season should be a fit test with regard Geno's proclivities in dealing with a larger roster. He is bringing in three gifted players, one of whom he recently described as being ready to contribute at a high level in College BB now and another who seems to be a scoring and defensive whiz with size.

How he integrates these youngster into the rotation is a matter that will enable us to gain a bit more insight into his philosophy of coaching. And let us not forget that the BB equivalent of "Spring Training" will be much shortened for him, the result of his international responsibilities which may well be a significant distraction.

May I suggest that we bide our time until we can actually visualize the integration of the 2012-13 newbies and bench-warmers even if oblivious to the process.

 

[Scotter]

You remember a NBA game is 48 minutes long, right? A 10 player rotation in the NBA is basically the equivalent of a 8 player rotation in a college game in terms of how playing time is distributed. The typical NBA rotation is 9 players often shrinking down further in the playoffs. A number of teams do play ten, but those teams typically lack players on the bench that can play multiple positions and/or roles. If they had better players on the bench most of those coaches wouldn't be playing ten in a competitive game.

And I don't really think the Knicks should be held up as a paradigm of anything quite yet even if slightly in jest. Was nothing learned from the Jeremy Lin fiasco?

The argument that 5-7 players is the optimal rotation has been usurped by our Brethren in the professional ranks. The New York Team has been quite successful (baring injuries) in making use of a ten-man rotation. Perhaps here is a principle that more college coaches might want to consider.

 

[DaddyChoc]

You remember a NBA game is 48 minutes long, right? A 10 player rotation in the NBA is basically the equivalent of a 8 player rotation in a college game in terms of how playing time is distributed. The typical NBA rotation is 9 players often shrinking down further in the playoffs. A number of teams do play ten, but those teams typically lack players on the bench that can play multiple positions and/or roles. If they had better players on the bench most of those coaches wouldn't be playing ten in a competitive game.

And I don't really think the Knicks should be held up as a paradigm of anything quite yet even if slightly in jest. Was nothing learned from the Jeremy Lin fiasco?

who is Jeremy Lin?

 

[DaddyChoc]

So what happened to Heather Buck?
I went back to the thread from the UConn v Baylor game in December and Heather played 14 minutes and played great defense. The Boneyarders were applauding her effort.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/game-thread-baylor.9338/

So what what happened after that game that she got splinters most of the rest of the year? I am sure she could have been used somewhere down the line.

I do know she injured/broke her hand in the Baylor game...

 

[sarals24]

Geno has stated that bringing in Heather wouldn't help much, as she doesn't bring much offensively and defense wasn't the problem. Can you imagine a team out there with Heather, Doty and Faris? They might as well just stick all five players on KML and Bria, and I say that with lots of love for those three.

 

[Aluminny69]

Or questioning whether the best coach in wcbb knows what the hell he is doing.

It is not contradictory to say that Geno is the best Women's Basketball Coach, but Geno is not perfect. Even Geno would admit that. Why can't you?

Geno second guesses himself, why can't we? ( The fact that we have very limited knowledge of inside information is a given.)

 

[Icebear]

We can always second guess but the likelihood of anyone here out thinking Geno is very small and more attributable to blind pigs and acorns than any reliable insights. It is never a bad thing to be reminded of the futulity of ones actions or possibility of finding that acorn.

 

[Wonkster]

The problem as Doggy has addressed is that we are like the prisoners of Plato's Allegory of the Cave...

I ask you now, my fellow Boneyarders - is there another wcbb message board, including those of Duke and Stanford, where you could find a post starting off with the above quotation, even allowing another handle for "Doggy?"

This is one high-class message board!
.

 

[UConnCat]

How he integrates these youngster into the rotation is a matter that will enable us to gain a bit more insight into his philosophy of coaching. And let us not forget that the BB equivalent of "Spring Training" will be much shortened for him, the result of his international responsibilities which may well be a significant distraction.

The coaches are limited in what they can do with players during the summer and CD and the other assts should be able to fill in with drills and individual workouts. UConn players often miss time on campus in the summer due to USA Basketball commitments (e.g., Dolson and Bria w/ U19 team last July). The Olympics will be over by mid-August and first official practice for the team will be 2 months later. I don't see it as a significant distraction.

 

[easttexastrash]

How can UCONN players be tired with such exceptional conditioning, the likes of which Griner does not have access to? Shouldn't they be able to play 40 minutes and be able to go all out the entire game?

 

[Icebear]

How can UCONN players be tired with such exceptional conditioning, the likes of which Griner does not have access to? Shouldn't they be able to play 40 minutes and be able to go all out the entire game?

They aren't.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Actually, when the schollys were one year, coaches could "cut" a player -- hasn't that rule been changed?

UConn hasn't quite gotten to the "Kentucky win and go to the NBA status" but how about you total the number of players that have ever played at UConn since, say, 1995 and then compare it to the number of players that have made it to (and stuck around) the WNBA.

It's goofy to think that, just like in every other sport, there won't be bench players who are essential team members but may not have their "on court time" in front of fans. They're part of an extraordinary learning experience and it's obvious that they apply those lessons to their LIFE, not just their basketball career.

We should have been so lucky.

 

[rtm5]

I would have liked to have seen more of Banks. (Cue up the "she has to earn it in practice" responses.)

She's lightning quick with the ball, going to the basket. She's a good defender. I know her shot looked bad but she was always on a short leash. Why not give her meaningful minutes throughout the season and allow her to settle in and develop?