Geno on freshmen for those who can't watch Geno Show

[BroadwayVa]

The investment is not a financial one, nor should it be. These parents and players chose to invest in Geno as coach knowing that occasional public criticism would be part of the deal. Part of Geno calculation is not to invest in players that can't take the criticism. This notion of UCONN WBB players as delicate kids, unable or unwilling to accept criticism is just plain wrong. Criticism from a BYer is irrevalent. Criticism from Geno may very well be the reason many come to UCONN. These kids are going to be just fine.

No where did I call the kids delicate--I stated that I have never been FOND of public humiliation as a means of getting some result. There are many other methods --some probably more effective.
You can be HONEST and you can run up one side and down the other with a kid--in private--that is my
disagreement. No one said they would not accept the criticism---not me anyway--obviously this is a near 30 year practice--.
Criticism from By-er is only insulting, if only the kids read it here, Geno's has a sting. When the dad you think is a giant of a man, with a halo floating around his head, hearing the truth is hard, but you know in your heart it was right--if done properly.
I didn't put my thoughts into the heads of the Current group of Uconn kids--they were my thoughts of the word said publicly--I have no knowledge or do you, about how each individual accepts it.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Having coached girls youth sports for 20 years (including my two daughters), I can state with confidence that parents have a very different relationship with players than a coach does. I understand - I do - that what Geno has said publicly bothers you. I wouldn't do it either, I don't think (I have never, nor never will, be in the kind of public eye coaching situation that he has been in, for decades now). And, I'm not trying to defend it so much as I am trying to withhold judgement on it - I have not walked in his shoes. I am trying to scotch the notion that Geno's criticism validates fan criticism, as they are not equivalent. I am trying to endorse the notion that players know what they're getting into when they sign on to be coached at UConn.

I also worked on college campuses for almost 15 years. My view of college students is that they are sometimes kids (more than they'd like to admit), sometimes adults, but, I believe in two things. First, the student will adopt whichever personae is to their advantage at that moment - in other words, if they don't want to be held accountable, they put on their "I'm a kid!" mantle, and if they want to do something that's pushing the boundaries, they put on the "I'm an adult!" posture. Second, it is to their and our advantage to hold students accountable as adults whenever possible. They may not like it, we may find it painful, but, legally, by the time they're 18, there's only two or three things (depending on the state) that society does not require them to be an adult for - and, one of them is renting a car.

Long before they reach graduation age, they can marry, they can have children, they can go to war and kill, or be killed for their country. In the long run, coddling them isn't smart. Teach them, talk with them, consult, mentor, advise - absolutely. But, not be so protective that they reach commencement without a few scrapes, scars, and failures. That they've not dealt with stupidity, ignorance, and unfairness, and that they've not had to look in the mirror and understood their own weaknesses and mistakes.

I've long said that "College is playing grown-up, with a safety net." Safety net, yes - cocoon, no.

Much has been made out of what the kids get out of this --and the need to accept the unacceptable. No one has address what coaching at Uconn has done for Geno---(reported) Geno started at Uconn at 18000/ann and current with perks is abt 3,000,000/ann. It would appear Geno is doing just a bit better than each of his kids who get a 67000 dollar education/4 years. My words were---I'm not a fan of this side of Geno (paraphrasing). Coddling is a long road from public humiliation. There is so much distance between the two to get the same results.
Only you mentioned cocoon--coddling--. When dealing with humans it is actually an individual issue, of how that person/kid shall react to any specific stimuli
Even the Marines had to adjust their training to be less harsh mentally and physically.
But ---I will like Geno's coaching--and the results--but will never be fond-public humiliation

 

[TitleTown]

Some of Geno's kids ARE Elite--but not all, darn it.

Say something less than nice about any of these players and you hear from HUSKIENAN---Geeze they are only kids. Adult? There is a legal definition 18 and a philosophy /physiological definition (abt 28) . They choose to be in the public eye that's their choice in going to Uconn--I doubt any human chooses to accept unsolicited criticism whether the author thinks its "constructive"--we as humans think we are doing our best and don't accept it easily. In the Jerry Lewis's obits---a person paid a billion to be an idiot--lashed back to any critic with great anger.
Geno has called what they do as --Entertainment---and spoke of the paying for seats to watch the circus.

This is why 99.99% of the time when Coach Auriemma chooses to publicly criticize a player, he does so about aspects they can control through more effort or focus, like hustling and not being "inherently lazy". He will criticize players for being lazy, not being tough, being selfish, not focusing, etc. However, I have very rarely ever heard him criticize a player solely for their lack of talent or ability.

 

[TitleTown]

I spent a year or two in the college atmosphere---as in adults or HS kids you can make generalities--but people are people and you can't put any in a nice neat box.
Parents do have a different relationship with their kids than most coaches have. Geno is a special case--in many cases he has had more influence on them than their parent--unlike many smaller colleges --Uconn WBB demands time --time to practice, time to travel, time to play--so at this level the staff and coaches have much more time to influence each kid. More than any parent.

No since the Svetlana back and forth in the media --I have never been a fan of public humiliation. Unfortunately my poor education did not reach your level--however two axioms ring in my brain:

1. Always praise in public 2 reprimand/ demean/in private 3. any person in a power position with kids should always take a higher road.

I have to admit he is not as bad as some of the men's coaches and he gets results. But that part of his "relationship" with the team shall always my least favorite.
I've posted this often in the past and the next time he is more negative on a single player--I'll post this again--it is fixed in my psyche.

It's really kind of hard arguing with the tactics and coaching philosophy of the greatest coach in the history of the sport!

 

[BroadwayVa]

It's really kind of hard arguing with the tactics and coaching philosophy of the greatest coach in the history of the sport!

I wasn't arguing against his coaching tactics---his interpersonal tactics--basically I said--I wasn't fond of his public comments, unless positive, about the team members. Just because all of his other methods work USUALLY does not mean his public negative comments are correct. But I think I'm speaking to a choir member.

 

[BroadwayVa]

This is why 99.99% of the time when Coach Auriemma chooses to publicly criticize a player, he does so about aspects they can control through more effort or focus, like hustling and not being "inherently lazy". He will criticize players for being lazy, not being tough, being selfish, not focusing, etc. However, I have very rarely ever heard him criticize a player solely for their lack of talent or ability.

All those things to me are find to be said--privately or in the team room with the team present--

 

[Bigboote]

I remember a Geno show in, I think Saniya's sophomore (possibly freshman) year. It was the first show, after the non-conference schedule was done. Kerith asked him, in the way only Kerith could, to compare each player to a bottle of wine. When he got to Saniya, he compared her to a bottle that would be opened after cellaring awhile, and you had no idea what to expect.

I love Saniya to pieces, have since she signed her letter of intent. I questioned Geno's handling of her, but in hindsight, I think he did a pretty damned good job, whether calling her out publicly or not. She's been a contributor to the Wings from day 1; still much room for improvement, but I think Fred Williams got a steal in round 3 and realizes it.

 

[HuskyNan]

All those things to me are find to be said--privately or in the team room with the team present--

Not trying to be rude but - what you want is irrelevant. Geno is what he's always been (actually, he's mellowed quite a bit) and the players that come to UConn know it, and so do their folks. If they're ok with it, so am I.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Not trying to be rude but - what you want is irrelevant. Geno is what he's always been (actually, he's mellowed quite a bit) and the players that come to UConn know it, and so do their folks. If they're ok with it, so am I.

We shall see--Geno has not been a person of great personal consistency--he actually hasn't mellowed--he came to the realization that he can't do with the "today" kids that which he could 10,20, 30 years ago--since mine was a personal belief--I think I'll keep it.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Back in July, 1988 I was asked by the East Lyme Girl's Field Hockey HC a friend of mine to be her asst. I knew nothing about FH and never previously coached a girl's team in any sport. She gave me some video's, some books and took my phone calls at all hours when I had questions. I told her I'd make a decision in a couple days and get back to her.
3 days later we met in her office and I said I would do it, but I'd have to be ME, whether I coach girls or guys, and I'd make slight changes to be more like the boy's Soccer I had coached for 5 years previously so I could better understand FH. She agreed and was thrilled that I said yes.
At the 2nd practice in Aug. I told the players after varsity & JV's were decided that I was going to coach them just as I did my Wrestlers because I knew no other way and to be as good a coach as I could be I had to be comfortable in my own skin. I wasn't going to treat them as HS girls but as athletes that I need to get the most out of. I wasn't going to apologize for the way I said something or pulling them from a game if warranted, etc. I said all of them had potential, some more than others, and I was going to get it out of them one way or another. One game during warm ups they P--ed me off because they wouldn't listen to me so I didn't talk to them the whole game and they made substitutions and game decisions themselves!
I coached JV for 4 years then the Varsity for 3 more years and I had one of the greatest experiences of my life and a close caring relationship with each team! I was one tough SOB and would say when a player complained, "here's a quarter call someone who cares!" They gave me an angel pin because I was the one person they knew who could die at any time and I needed all the help I could get! Many times we said things that normally wouldn't be said both ways. I let them have some blasting off space and would show them a quarter and walk away!
Even today I still hear from several girls and any girls I run into is a warm caring visit!
At my final end of season banquet my players (a load of alumni came back also) gave me a framed quarter with the statement, "Hey Coach Sherm call someone that cares!"
If the PERSON, girl or guy, knows that whatever the coach says is with LOVE, RESPECT and only trying to get the full measure of that athlete's potential, THE BEST THEY CAN BE, then there will be a special bond between coach and athlete!
Geno is beloved by his players and alumni and what he has said to them publicly and/or privately is taken as that of a parent raising their kids! I can't explain it any better than that!

 

[Striper69]

I love what he said - some kids had great coaching, have great instincts, and just "get" what the coaches are trying to teach. They maybe can't do it all the time, but they get it. He specifically mentioned Maya, Jamelle, Kelly Faris.

He felt Saniya had great instincts. It's a bit of a wonder it took her 3+ years to really employ everything. Maybe she was "inherently lazy" for those 3+ years. She certainly was terrific as a senior day in and day out.

I have a feeling all our freshmen will struggle. I think Megan may be the most gifted - I saw videos of her doing stuff in high school that made me go "ooh and aah". But I really have no idea how long it will take them. One thing I'm sure of, all of them get pushed, get frustrated, and will become better players for it...

I don't think any girl could be "inherently lazy" and last at UCONN for 4 years. Wish Geno would get off her... so they lost a semifinal...

Saniya just signed on with a "Team Of The Century" and couldn't compete with Kia Nurse or Moriah in what Geno wanted/needed.

 

[meyers7]

Having coached girls youth sports for 20 years (including my two daughters), I can state with confidence that parents have a very different relationship with players than a coach does. I understand - I do - that what Geno has said publicly bothers you. I wouldn't do it either, I don't think (I have never, nor never will, be in the kind of public eye coaching situation that he has been in, for decades now). And, I'm not trying to defend it so much as I am trying to withhold judgement on it - I have not walked in his shoes. I am trying to scotch the notion that Geno's criticism validates fan criticism, as they are not equivalent. I am trying to endorse the notion that players know what they're getting into when they sign on to be coached at UConn.

I also worked on college campuses for almost 15 years. My view of college students is that they are sometimes kids (more than they'd like to admit), sometimes adults, but, I believe in two things. First, the student will adopt whichever personae is to their advantage at that moment - in other words, if they don't want to be held accountable, they put on their "I'm a kid!" mantle, and if they want to do something that's pushing the boundaries, they put on the "I'm an adult!" posture. Second, it is to their and our advantage to hold students accountable as adults whenever possible. They may not like it, we may find it painful, but, legally, by the time they're 18, there's only two or three things (depending on the state) that society does not require them to be an adult for - and, one of them is renting a car.

Long before they reach graduation age, they can marry, they can have children, they can go to war and kill, or be killed for their country. In the long run, coddling them isn't smart. Teach them, talk with them, consult, mentor, advise - absolutely. But, not be so protective that they reach commencement without a few scrapes, scars, and failures. That they've not dealt with stupidity, ignorance, and unfairness, and that they've not had to look in the mirror and understood their own weaknesses and mistakes.

I've long said that "College is playing grown-up, with a safety net." Safety net, yes - cocoon, no.

Could be looking at post of the year here.

 

[TitleTown]

I don't think any girl could be "inherently lazy" and last at UCONN for 4 years. Wish Geno would get off her... so they lost a semifinal...

Saniya just signed on with a "Team Of The Century" and couldn't compete with Kia Nurse or Moriah in what Geno wanted/needed.

You realize that video is over 3 years old right? Did you ever think that maybe Coach Auriemma's public criticism of Chong's work ethic is what motivated her to change her ways and become the player she is today?

 

[EricLA]

You realize that video is over 3 years old right? Did you ever think that maybe Coach Auriemma's public criticism of Chong's work ethic is what motivated her to change her ways and become the player she is today?

I'm guessing maybe he didn't realize it. I wouldn't have been thrilled with Geno if he were criticizing Saniya 6 months after she graduated either!

I agree with you - he said she had great instincts and knew her potential. He pushed her to be a better player, and that's one main reason she was drafted and is playing so well her 1st season. I believe she will have a long WNBA career - she may never be a starter, or a star, but I think she will last much longer than Faris, another favorite of mine...

 

[warbler1055]

One thing I have learned, Geno is never boring!!!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I wish I could find the speechifying part of a recent victory parade when a certain point guard, who endured a lot of Geno's tough love, rang out her "I love you man." And there is another recent graduate who got her share of Geno barbs and hectoring, who, in a recent interview, said she regards him as a second father and they talk up to 3 times a week in some parts of the year. Man obviously hasn't figured it out, huh.

 

[bags27]

of course, we all recoil when it comes to public humiliation. even some theories about democracy believe that the most fundamental civil liberty and protection is that which it promotes personal dignity and prevents humiliation. but there is a subset of citizens--athletes, politicians, and other public performers--who, because they accept that they have a public persona and that it is precisely their public performance, evaluated publicly, which is most important to them, play by different rules.

If I said to a stranger: "you really suck", that person might be deeply hurt or angry. But if I yelled that to a collegiate or professional athlete, they'd far more likely just shrug and go on. Comes with the territory....

 

[HuskyNan]

I was looking for this article yesterday or the discussion about parents getting upset over their child being called out. This is Tina's mom:

When [AAU coach] King [who had benched Tina for lack of effort] told [Tina's mom Ms.] Holgate that her daughter wasn't putting forth the proper effort, Holgate was incensed.

"She said we were wasting money going back and forth," Charles recalled. "She said if I didn't start taking it seriously, I could go back to playing the piano."

UConn's shining light With guidance from coach Geno Auriemma, junior center Tina Charles has focused on keeping the light switch in the 'on' position and tapping into her considerable ability. WOMEN'S FINAL FOUR - UCONN

 

[SVCBeercats]

Geno for nearly if not all of the 30 years has publicly called out players---not my fondest memories of him. Geeez ---they are ONLY KIDS!!

Geno did say Saniya is inherently lazy. But in the context of all freshmen are trying to do things without exerting themselves. Implying all freshmen are lazy. Then he said the freshmen accomplished these things in high school by doing this much ... so how can I get the same results by doing just what I did in high school? Then they realize it is not working. This is roughly what he said. He was asked a question about freshmen. He used Saniya as an example since she was the only freshman that year. I don't think he was demeaning her specifically as much as here is how all freshmen are. View the video again and see if you at least partially see what I am trying to say.

 

[Carnac]

We think alike on this subject. However, not just championships but, winning period. I saw it happen here in St. Louis years ago when a certain high school coach used to almost dominate the competition. He used profanity constantly and berated the players. If there were complaints they were not made public. But once his teams started losing, players and parents complained so vigorously, a newspaper article was written about the problems. He no longer could get away with it. He was quickly fired from his coaching job.

As long as he was winning, everything was fine because......................

 

[augustaTC]

These are elite athletes (and adults, as you mentioned in a subsequent post) who chose to be in the public eye. If they are that sensitive to critical comments on a sports message board, then they should be playing intramural hoop anonymously somewhere, and not in front 8000+ paying spectators and TV cameras.

Excellent rationale for being a jerk on a message board.

 

[EricLA]

Excellent rationale for being a jerk on a message board.

I disagree. While I am 100% on board that criticisms in the nature of rumors, personal life, being "fat", a "thug", etc etc. are out of bounds, discussing that a player does not have the satisfactory fitness level, or does not pass the ball enough, is shooting poorly, missing too many bunnies, has "bricks for hands" having difficulty catching the ball, or that a player is simply not talented enough to earn PT except at the end of games, and any other myriad of observations/criticisms on a player's performance is not out of bounds.

This is not T-league softball where everyone gets a hit and everyone scores a run. This is the most elite program in the history of WCBB and is as much as business as it is a vehicle for preparing young women not only for a pro career, but for life as well. The reason I disagree with you is because I believe you do need to draw the line between posts that are "jerky" (personal criticisms), and accurate criticisms of a players' game or performance.

Oh and by the way, what we say is NOTING compared to what Geno, CD, Chris and Shea will say to the players.

 

[j66kicker]

Excellent rationale for being a jerk on a message board.

Well thanks, but I don't need any rationale

 

[EricLA]

This is why 99.99% of the time when Coach Auriemma chooses to publicly criticize a player, he does so about aspects they can control through more effort or focus, like hustling and not being "inherently lazy". He will criticize players for being lazy, not being tough, being selfish, not focusing, etc. However, I have very rarely ever heard him criticize a player solely for their lack of talent or ability.

I will take it a step further - with one exception (criticizing Wiggins after her anti-gay comments a few years back), I've NEVER heard Geno criticize a player for lack of talent or ability. Not saying it's never happened, I just have never heard him say it, or don't recall it being said. One thing he DOES say quite frequently is that he is a good judge of a player's potential and that part of his job is to get them to work hard enough to reach their entire fullest potential, and then some...

 

[BroadwayVa]

Geno did say Saniya is inherently lazy. But in the context of all freshmen are trying to do things without exerting themselves. Implying all freshmen are lazy. Then he said the freshmen accomplished these things in high school by doing this much ... so how can I get the same results by doing just what I did in high school? Then they realize it is not working. This is roughly what he said. He was asked a question about freshmen. He used Saniya as an example since she was the only freshman that year. I don't think he was demeaning her specifically as much as here is how all freshmen are. View the video again and see if you at least partially see what I am trying to say.

If I was being specific about Saniya it was when she was a Senior---The video only brought his public comments on various players over the past 20-30 years--my memory starts with Svetlana. I don't think I made a comment on these particular freshmen. Generalized negative comments that include specific names --Nice that you used my comment --stating I'm not fond of that aspect of Geno's "training" never was, never will be. .