Geno Auriemma thrashing Notre Dame for not joining in football

[Carl Spackler]

Also I forgot to add.

Miami - the hurricanes were one of those independants up until 1990 with Syracuse, Pitt, and BC that were looking for football conference homes when the bowl games started getting allied with conference champions.

The only reason Notre Dame survived as a football independant after the inception of the bowl system tied to conference champions, was their existing contract with NBC, that no other team could manage with any network.

Death to the BCS. I say.

 

[BlueMAB]

Also I forgot to add.

Miami - the hurricanes were one of those independants up until 1990 with Syracuse, Pitt, and BC that were looking for football conference homes when the bowl games started getting allied with conference champions.

The only reason Notre Dame survived as a football independant after the inception of the bowl system tied to conference champions, was their existing contract with NBC, that no other team could manage with any network.

Death to the BCS. I say.

I will try to simplify my question.

You say the big east was hurt because the football teams didn't have the full support of the leadership. You said some probably don't leave if we had different leadership. If that's the case, then why did they support replacing one Tranghese with another Tranghese?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I believe that the leadership in this conference, specifically Tranghese in the past, just completely despised college football as a sport, and the conference itself was completely disinterested in football until the early 90's when it became necessary for survival and inclusion among the big boys club of athletic conferences. I'm not sure why Tranghese doesn't like football so much.

I can understand completely disliking the BCS system, i hate it. It's corrupt. I would love to see a post season system in general around college football. A playoff system of the 11 1-A conference champions play post season games to determine a national champoins. But I'm not in a position to try to change anything.

But you know who was? You know who could have pulled the strings? Tranghese was. He was a commissioner when Notre Dame came in 1995 when all the big time former independents in football were joining conferences, after the SWC had disbanded.... and he was commissioner AND chairman of the BCS in 2003-2004 when the first big east conference raid by the ACC happened.

So if you want to find out why Notre Dame was never squeezed by the big east, in or out, Tranghese is the guy to ask. That's the fact.

And you know what really pisses me off about Tranghese (and Jeff Jacobs - no surprise) - in the paper the other day - Tranghese is quoted as saying that the big east football teams did not win enough, and Jacobs let it go.

WTF? Miami, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Syracuse......they didn't win enough b/w 1991-2003? The ducking big east as a football conference had a national champion in 2001.

LESS THAN 10 YEARS AGO THE BIG EAST CONFERENCE PRODUCED A NATIONAL CHAMPION FOOTBALL TEAM.

let that sink in.

Tranghese had zero, and I mean ZERO - respect for the power that college football holds in the intercollegiate athletic world, or he would have done something - besides let Notre Dame continue to play round ball and little ball with the big east, while they got fat on their own with the pigskin and the big east was getting plundered. That's my opinion.

I hope that Friar Tuck has taken the lessons learned in the past decade and he's not of the same mold that Tranghese is.

Lastly, the esteemed counselor is looking for a theory as to how the big east would have been better off without Notre Dame, than with Notre Dame.

The answer is simple. The conference would be more stable for the schools that played division 1-A football, knowing that their leadership is behind them 100%.

The real problem is not Notre Dame - or at least not the primary problem. The primary problem is that basketball schools RUN the conference, and the world of sports contracts is all about football, and the basketball people in Providence have never really cared about the football side of things, or else they would have accepted Penn State as a member way back when, in the very early 80s. It all traces back to that.

The early days of the Big East coincided with ESPN becoming a national brand, and people getting cable more universally throughout this country. It's hard to remember, but back in 1980, cable penetration was much lower than it is now, and there were far, far fewer channels available (30 maybe ?). HBO was still really new.

So against that backdrop, the Big East as a basketball conference became one of the flagship properties of ESPN. The other conferences started coming onboard with their own nights of the week AFTER the Big East has set the bar. The Providence guys still are living in the past, thinking that it's still those days, and not today.

There have been so many opportunities for them to get this right, and they have consistently failed to do so, because the only thing tha matters to them is protecting their small time hoops schools.

 

[Druken Friar]

I've been readin your rantings carefully, focusing on the one in the middle. You remind me of a good GOP presidential candidate. There's a lot of truth in what you say but buried in there is the big lie.

First off, the President of the USA doesn't control the economy or get to make any laws, and the Big East Commissioner doesn't get to add and drop schools at his whim. The school president's have that power. The commissioner is more like an advisor to the presidents, no real power except looking important.

Second, back in 2003-2004 when the Big East lost BC, Miami and VT, it was Trangehese who helped patch things back up. The schools he helped add have won BCS bowls, Big East Football championships and generally represented the conference very well. He quit because he knew this was coming and he didn't want to deal with it again.

Third, I'd love to see ND join the Big East for football, really. I'd like to see Penn State and BC in the conference too. But again, that is between the school presidents, the commissioner can't deliver some ultimatum. And I know for a fact most ND fans want to stay independent for football, makes 'em feel special. It's stupid but true.

Fourth, ND playing in the league for other sports is no different than any other BB only school. It doesn't cause instability. Is Villanova causing instability by stradling the fence on going FBS? The instability stems from the general perception that the Big East is not worthy of being in the BCS. The perception is false, in my opinion, but just listen to the blabber mouths like Craig James on ESPN. The Big 12 is actually more unstable than the Big East because they can't get along and Texas is just a big . But I digress.

I appreciate your frustration, but it's focused in the wrong place. Death to the BCS, I'll drink to that.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I will try to simplify my question.

You say the big east was hurt because the football teams didn't have the full support of the leadership. You said some probably don't leave if we had different leadership. If that's the case, then why did they support replacing one Tranghese with another Tranghese?

Before I can answer that, you need to show me that the promotion of Marinatto was a unanimously approved decision by all the schools.

The thing you might not know, is that Tranghese wanted the conference split in 2003. He despises football. He wanted football out and didn't care what happened to the schools in the BCS system.

Marinatto actually saved the football schools in the big east conference, and he earned the job.

I think Friar Tuck is great person, but I just don't know if he's frankly, greedy, enough to be in charge of this whole thing. He's a good guy, but we need Gordon Gekko out there in charge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/s...-addresses-future-of-the-big-east.html?src=pm

 

[businesslawyer]

The real problem is not Notre Dame - or at least not the primary problem. The primary problem is that basketball schools RUN the conference, and the world of sports contracts is all about football, and the basketball people in Providence have never really cared about the football side of things, or else they would have accepted Penn State as a member way back when, in the very early 80s. It all traces back to that.

The early days of the Big East coincided with ESPN becoming a national brand, and people getting cable more universally throughout this country. It's hard to remember, but back in 1980, cable penetration was much lower than it is now, and there were far, far fewer channels available (30 maybe ?). HBO was still really new.

So against that backdrop, the Big East as a basketball conference became one of the flagship properties of ESPN. The other conferences started coming onboard with their own nights of the week AFTER the Big East has set the bar. The Providence guys still are living in the past, thinking that it's still those days, and not today.

There have been so many opportunities for them to get this right, and they have consistently failed to do so, because the only thing tha matters to them is protecting their small time hoops schools.

Please, please, stop making things up. Penn State wasn't accepted not because of the conference office but because of Pitt.

I heard last night at the Republican Debate that the Providence office was responsible for Obamacare.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I've been readin your rantings carefully, focusing on the one in the middle. You remind me of a good GOP presidential candidate. There's a lot of truth in what you say but buried in there is the big lie.

First off, the President of the USA doesn't control the economy or get to make any laws, and the Big East Commissioner doesn't get to add and drop schools at his whim. The school president's have that power. The commissioner is more like an advisor to the presidents, no real power except looking important.

Second, back in 2003-2004 when the Big East lost BC, Miami and VT, it was Trangehese who helped patch things back up. The schools he helped add have won BCS bowls, Big East Football championships and generally represented the conference very well. He quit because he knew this was coming and he didn't want to deal with it again.

Third, I'd love to see ND join the Big East for football, really. I'd like to see Penn State and BC in the conference too. But again, that is between the school presidents, the commissioner can't deliver some ultimatum. And I know for a fact most ND fans want to stay independent for football, makes 'em feel special. It's stupid but true.

Fourth, ND playing in the league for other sports is no different than any other BB only school. It doesn't cause instability. Is Villanova causing instability by stradling the fence on going FBS? The instability stems from the general perception that the Big East is not worthy of being in the BCS. The perception is false, in my opinion, but just listen to the blabber mouths like Craig James on ESPN. The Big 12 is actually more unstable than the Big East because they can't get along and Texas is just a big . But I digress.

I appreciate your frustration, but it's focused in the wrong place. Death to the BCS, I'll drink to that.

I just posted something from the NYTimes in 2003 that completely refutes that in bold. What have you got?

 

[Druken Friar]

I just posted something from the NYTimes in 2003 that completely refutes that in bold. What have you got?

I don't think so.

Cinncinnati league champs 2008 & 2009
Louisville league champs 2006, defeated Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/sports/ncaafootball/02bigeast.ready.html?pagewanted=print

 

[Carl Spackler]

Tranghese quit because he can't stand college football, and there is no way the big east survives as a power conference without it.

If anybody knows why Tranghese hates college football so much, I'd love to know. It's weird.

Nobody likes the BCS and the fact that there's no real equal opportunity for any team to really earn the national title every year on the field.

It's not enough for the complete distaste Tranghese has demonstrated for college football.

 

[Jimdish255]

That was a great post until the end. So let me try one more time to be as clear as possible.

1. Given the choice between all-in and all-out in the Big EAst, we know for a metaphysical fact that Notre Dame would elect all out. They have said that, and, given they could all-in to the Big Ten, there is no rational reason they should have committed all-in to the Big East.

2. Unless you disagree with 1., you need to set forth a clear reason as to why the Big EAst would be in better shape today if Notre Dame were all-out. Because, having nothing to do with you, this argument continues on and not one poster has hypothesized even a stupid reason as to how the Big EAst would be better off.

I'll give you a reason - complacency. That and the false assumption that ND's stature and history was somehow a transferrable asset that would protect and/or rescue the Big East when the time came. The extended flirtation with ND created a false sense of security that allowed leadership to bury their heads in the sand and flip off the concerns of the allsports universities until it was too late. Seeing the handwriting on the wall they were all too ready to take the first best offer rather than continue to pretend that the prettiest girl at the dance had any real interest in them, while their nerdy friends gathered around starry eyed.

So predictable yet so pathetic. That's why the ultimatum should have been made years ago from a position of relative strength and without the sharks circling the cage. Then at least we would have known where we stood and allsports universities could have begun to move forward with members who had a similar vision for the conference. That would not have guaranteed a positive outcome, but given clarity to the situation. A better environment for decision making imo.

 

[BlueMAB]

Before I can answer that, you need to show me that the promotion of Marinatto was a unanimously approved decision by all the schools.

I can't. But he doesn't get the job without support from the football schools. It's 8-8, some football schools had to support him...then there's this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11bigeast.html

In his final interview with a panel of Big East presidents and athletic directors in the fall, Marinatto established himself as the runaway choice in a field that included the former Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg.
“The final meeting was one of the most impressive interview sessions I had participated in in 35 years of conducting interviews,” Pittsburgh’s chancellor, Mark Nordenberg, said. “It was the perfect combination of thoughtful professionalism.”

 

[businesslawyer]

I can't. But he doesn't get the job without support from the football schools. It's 8-8, some football schools had to support him...then there's this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11bigeast.html

In his final interview with a panel of Big East presidents and athletic directors in the fall, Marinatto established himself as the runaway choice in a field that included the former Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg.
“The final meeting was one of the most impressive interview sessions I had participated in in 35 years of conducting interviews,” Pittsburgh’s chancellor, Mark Nordenberg, said. “It was the perfect combination of thoughtful professionalism.”

The nerve you have. Trying to respond to people's irrational anger with facts. What are you -- a damn lawyer?

 

[Carl Spackler]

I don't think so.

Cinncinnati league champs 2008 & 2009
Louisville league champs 2006, defeated Wake Forest in the Orange Bowl
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/sports/ncaafootball/02bigeast.ready.html?pagewanted=print

Are you for real? you just posted something that says exactly what I've been saying. Tranghese was preparing for the conference to split, I'm telling you he wanted it. Didn't care that it would happen, it should have happened in 1995. Jurich wasn't even in the league yet then, and wasn't in 2002-2003 either.

Marinatto came up with the plan to save it, and convinced Tranghese to go with it. Jurich never talks to Tranghese without Marinatto.

Tranghese quit because he couldn't stomach football.

The problem the big east has had since 2003, is that Marinatto is a nice guy that plays by the rules, in a system where the Gordon Gekko's of the world rule.

I would love to see the system go away. Tranghese could have played a big part in making it go away, a long time ago, if he had cared at all about football, instead of the bowl championship series, we could have started working toward a playoff system in the early 1990s.

All of the independants in college football were aligned with the big east.

 

[Jimdish255]

Pittsburgh - Ironic. Loved him so much they had to leave

 

[Carl Spackler]

I've got I think three different conversatiosn going at once, not sure.

Here's my summation.

Marinatto is a good guy. If anything, that's his fault in this entire mess. He's a good guy in a system where greed and corruption is rampant.

Tranghese despised football. He never wanted it in the big east conference, and was reluctant to admit it, and was completely supportive of the conference splitting, on at least two and probably three occasions. He wasn't strong enough to ever make it happen.

Notre Dame in 1995 was major stabilizing force in preventing th confernence from splitting. It's argueable if the conference would have been better served splitting then, or remaining together. It's not argueable, that by 2002, the conference was no longer stable, and Notre Dame either in entirely or out entirely at that point, would have significantly strengthened the conference position, because at the time, the reigning national champion in football - was a big east team, and retaining that team, by showing notre dame the ultimatum, would have kept them.

Marinatto saved football as a sport in the big east in 2003 with his plans that he convinced Tranghese to implement.

Marinatto earned the job as commissioner, basically for that reason, being able to demonstrate that he was strongly in favor of keeping the conference together.

All of the NYtimes pieces posted in this thread contain that information. (all except my bit on Miami and Notre dame and an ultimatum in 2002)

 

[Druken Friar]

No it doesn't, try reading boy. He hates the hypocrisy associated with college football, not college football. Stop searching for scapegoats.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...etired-rather-than-deal-with-fragile-big-east

 

[BlueMAB]

But Carl,

ND was never going to join. They've made that clear. And the football schools could have split if that was the sticking point, and they didn't.

So why would any football school still be here, if the conference leadership had pushed the conference to get rid of one of it's schools? (something no conference president is going to do anyway).

 

[Carl Spackler]

I can't. But he doesn't get the job without support from the football schools. It's 8-8, some football schools had to support him...then there's this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11bigeast.html

In his final interview with a panel of Big East presidents and athletic directors in the fall, Marinatto established himself as the runaway choice in a field that included the former Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg.
“The final meeting was one of the most impressive interview sessions I had participated in in 35 years of conducting interviews,” Pittsburgh’s chancellor, Mark Nordenberg, said. “It was the perfect combination of thoughtful professionalism.”

Right. Somewhere in this above, I think in the post you quote, I wrote that Marinatto earned the job. Marinatto is the guy, not Tranghese, that really wanted to keep football and basketball together in the same conference.

I'm pretty sure he did actually earn unanimous support.

The problem in what you said, is taht Marinatto is a Tranghese clone.

I don't think he is. I hope he isn't, because if he does become a Tranghese clone, te conference is really going to die a slow agonizing death.

My problem with Marinatto, is that I don't think he's cut throat enough, in a cut throat world.

The heart and the fist - great book by a really, really, unique human being. Eric Greitens. Greenpeace humanitarian turned navy seal.

There's a time to be compassionate, and a good guy, and there's a time to be cold blooded killer. The dichotomy of the world. You can't have one without the other.

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No it doesn't, try reading boy. He hates the hypocrisy associated with college football, not college football. Stop searching for scapegoats.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...etired-rather-than-deal-with-fragile-big-east

Then he should have tried to change it, instead of kick it to the curb.

 

[BlueMAB]

Right. Somewhere in this above, I think in the post you quote, I wrote that Marinatto earned the job. Marinatto is the guy, not Tranghese, that really wanted to keep football and basketball together in the same conference.

I'm pretty sure he did actually earn unanimous support.

The problem in what you said, is taht Marinatto is a Tranghese clone.

I don't think he is. I hope he isn't, because if he does become a Tranghese clone, te conference is really going to die a slow agonizing death.

My problem with Marinatto, is that I don't think he's cut throat enough, in a cut throat world.

The heart and the fist - great book by a really, really, unique human being. Eric Greitens. Greenpeace humanitarian turned navy seal.

There's a time to be compassionate, and a good guy, and there's a time to be cold blooded killer. The dichotomy of the world. You can't have one without the other.

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

Ok, fair enough, they aren't the same guy. But you said "leadership", you didn't say "Tranghese, but not Marinatto". And that doesn't really get to my point anyway. The football schools could have split over ND (and offered Marinatto a job), they didn't. I just don't see how more "support" from the conference leadership would have changed anything.

 

[Carl Spackler]

But Carl,

ND was never going to join. They've made that clear. And the football schools could have split if that was the sticking point, and they didn't.

So why would any football school still be here, if the conference leadership had pushed the conference to get rid of one of it's schools? (something no conference president is going to do anyway).

Here's where the theory that the businesslawyer asked for comes in. I think the big east conference by 2002, would have been stronger moving forward, had Notre Dame been issued the call, join for football, or get out completely,a nd if they decided not to join, ejected.

Because, in doing that, the conference would have clearly, 100% shown to the likes of Miami, reigning national champion in football, that the conference was looking to support the football interests, and either get stronger as a football conference, by adding Notre Dame, or end the foolishness of letting them be independant in football and not have to find a conference home in the bowl series system.

This was not the case in 1995, when Notre Dame contributed heavily to the survival of the big east conference. If Notre dame was given the call then, and not allowed in, the ocnfernce likely splits. Which is why way back when in this epic, I asked businesslawyer about when specifically he was talking about any time between today and the day in 1995 when Notre Dame joined.

And make no mistake, that the likes of Miami, with their multiple national titles in football was very jealous of Notre Dame's ability to reamin independant.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Ok, fair enough, they aren't the same guy. But you said "leadership", you didn't say "Tranghese, but not Marinatto". And that doesn't really get to my point anyway. The football schools could have split over ND (and offered Marinatto a job), they didn't. I just don't see how more "support" from the conference leadership would have changed anything.

i don't know what I wrote anymore where. I need a drink. A nice scotch, and a shower.

All I know is taht the big east is a conference among the power players in teh BCS. The media is biased. The fotoball world is biased against us. For good reason. As long as the BCS exists and we've got enough teams, we'll be at the table.

Friar tuck has a real good chance, to make it all good. But he's got to shake the basketball dominance of the intercollegiate landscape mold, and he's got to channel the warrior mentality. Being the good guy, the peacemaker, isn't going to get us through this valley. We need Eric Greitens Fist, not the heart.

If you're going to cut yourself a market share in the northeast, in New York City, Boston, Washington, Philadelphia, you better be bringing your brass balls and walk in with all guns blazing.

I think that ACC has proven that, by repeatedly failing to kill the big east. I have less confidence in their leadership than I do in the big east. Syracuse must be tting their pants that they're going to get taken out of new york city. What a dumb move they made.

But anyway, it's the ultimate irony, that the new york market, reopened by the Steinbrenners to college football, might just be earned by football programs in Texas and Idaho.

Where's my scotch. Catch y'all later.

 

[businesslawyer]

Here's where the theory that the businesslawyer asked for comes in. I think the big east conference by 2002, would have been stronger moving forward, had Notre Dame been issued the call, join for football, or get out completely,a nd if they decided not to join, ejected.

Because, in doing that, the conference would have clearly, 100% shown to the likes of Miami, reigning national champion in football, that the conference was looking to support the football interests, and either get stronger as a football conference, by adding Notre Dame, or end the foolishness of letting them be independant in football and not have to find a conference home in the bowl series system.

This was not the case in 1995, when Notre Dame contributed heavily to the survival of the big east conference. If Notre dame was given the call then, and not allowed in, the ocnfernce likely splits. Which is why way back when in this epic, I asked businesslawyer about when specifically he was talking about any time between today and the day in 1995 when Notre Dame joined.

And make no mistake, that the likes of Miami, with their multiple national titles in football was very jealous of Notre Dame's ability to reamin independant.

I didn't reply because I thought I was giving you a break. But here goes:

Your theory is that Miami, which had a football relationship with Notre Dame but was never in a football conference with Notre Dame, would not have left the Big East for the ACC, despite the added money, geographic nearness, academic prestige and lack of a hybrid structure, if Notre Dame, with whom they weren't playing football anyway, was no longer a basketball member of the conference?

Look, it didn't happen so no one can prove that you're wrong, but that really doesn't seem Roswellian to you? You really think that makes sense to someone who is looking in from the outside and doesn't have their mind made up already? Unless, of course, you actually have some reason to believe Miami wanted ND out of the basketball conference? But, every time I ask people to post where a school (not fans or a coach but a school) wanted the Irish out, all I get in a response is the sound of crickets.

 

[ruskin]

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

I think UConn has a warrior in charge in Dr. Herbst. At this point, that's all Iwant. Wouldn't be surprised if Geno was asked to play the bad cop role today re ND. Also think the #BegHarder folks around here are going to be eating crow when this is over.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think UConn has a warrior in charge in Dr. Herbst. At this point, that's all Iwant. Wouldn't be surprised if Geno was asked to play the bad cop role today re ND. Also think the #BegHarder folks around here are going to be eating crow when this is over.

No they won't. Trust me. Never happens around here.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I didn't reply because I thought I was giving you a break. But here goes:

Your theory is that Miami, which had a football relationship with Notre Dame but was never in a football conference with Notre Dame, would not have left the Big East for the ACC, despite the added money, geographic nearness, academic prestige and lack of a hybrid structure, if Notre Dame, with whom they weren't playing football anyway, was no longer a basketball member of the conference?

Look, it didn't happen so no one can prove that you're wrong, but that really doesn't seem Roswellian to you? You really think that makes sense to someone who is looking in from the outside and doesn't have their mind made up already? Unless, of course, you actually have some reason to believe Miami wanted ND out of the basketball conference? But, every time I ask people to post where a school (not fans or a coach but a school) wanted the Irish out, all I get in a response is the sound of crickets.

My theory is that Miami was pissed off at the image of the big east, coming off a national championship and having the media paint a picture of the conference as weak, basketball oriented, everything we know about. Miami wasn't in a football conference with notre dame, and stopped playing them for a while after 1989, b/c they were both independant until 1990, when the big bowls got together and formated the coalition, or alliance or whatever and tied themselves to conference champions.

Miami wanted a stable, and well respected football conference. They wanted Notre Dame iether in or out, not half way. Getting Notre Dame in - ideal. Getting Notre Dame out- solidarity.

The ACC offered a lot that makes sense to Miami, as you noted. What they didn't offer was Notre Dame. What Notre Dame IN would have done, is immediately validated the Big EAst conference as a football power, which would have taken the media tarnish that the 2001 national championship had. Notre Dame being ejected from teh big east, OUT - would not have done the same thing, media wise to validate Miami's presence as national champion, but it would have been the most clear sign, and it still would be the most clear sign, that the conference was no longer being ruled by basketball interests, and therefore would have been stronger in the future.

Would ejecting Notre dame have prevented Miami from eventually leaving? WHo knows. You didn't ask for a theory as to how Miami could have been prevented from leaving.

But had Notre Dame been given the call in 2002? I believe if they were ejected in 2002, the conference would have been stronger going forward, because to eject Notre Dame, would take leadership that valued football above anything else.

 

[businesslawyer]

My theory is that Miami was pissed off at the image of the big east, coming off a national championship and having the media paint a picture of the conference as weak, basketball oriented, everything we know about. Miami wasn't in a football conference with notre dame, and stopped playing them for a while after 1989, b/c they were both independant until 1990, when the big bowls got together and formated the coalition, or alliance or whatever and tied themselves to conference champions.

Miami wanted a stable, and well respected football conference. They wanted Notre Dame iether in or out, not half way. Getting Notre Dame in - ideal. Getting Notre Dame out- solidarity.

The ACC offered a lot that makes sense to Miami, as you noted. What they didn't offer was Notre Dame. What Notre Dame IN would have done, is immediately validated the Big EAst conference as a football power, which would have taken the media tarnish that the 2001 national championship had. Notre Dame being ejected from teh big east, OUT - would not have done the same thing, media wise to validate Miami's presence as national champion, but it would have been the most clear sign, and it still would be the most clear sign, that the conference was no longer being ruled by basketball interests, and therefore would have been stronger in the future.

Would ejecting Notre dame have prevented Miami from eventually leaving? WHo knows. You didn't ask for a theory as to how Miami could have been prevented from leaving.

But had Notre Dame been given the call in 2002? I believe if they were ejected in 2002, the conference would have been stronger going forward, because to eject Notre Dame, would take leadership that valued football above anything else.

Good duck*ing God. Stop it. The choice was not between Notre Dame all in or Notre Dame all out. Notre Dame wasn't joining. What Miami would have done if Notre Dame was all in is totally irrelevant to reality.

The choice was Notre Dame in for basketball or Notre Dame out for basketball. That was the only choice. And having Notre Dame out for basketball would not have come near changing the fact that the Big EAst was perceived to be the weakest of the major conferences in football because, at that time, it was the weakest. It had six schools that weren't total crap (because at that time Temple and Rutgers were), and of those Pitt was going through a long period of mediocrity, BC was in an insolated football region with a history of no national importance and WVU and VPI were rising but had no historical market prestige. And the entire conference was based in a region of the country that didn't give a damn about college football since Army and the Ivy League were stripped of their historical importance. Notre Dame being out for basketball didn't change any of that.

I am really, really going to try to stop posting on this for a while, so please don't ask me to respond. UConn joined the weakest big time football conference, and it did so because no other major conference would have touched us with a ten foot pole. Unfortunately, the weakest conference is now imploding. Not because of the leadership in Providence (which is not to say they've done a good job), not because of Notre Dame (which had zippo to do with our football conference) and not because the football conference is associated with catholic basketball schools. The football conference is failing because before we got stronger by building the programs one by one (which was in fact happening), stronger competitors decided to eat us alive. It is that simple, but I apparently can't make people accept that so I'm just going to stop until something new actually happens.

Good evening all.

 

[Section205]

BL, have a drink on me!!!

 

[Carl Spackler]

drinks all around on me.

you asked for a theory, I gave you one. The choice, the issue at hand, was never about notre dame basketball in or out. It's all about football. You keep brining up basketball. Notre dame made it clear that they wanted football independance. The big east didn't need to accept that, that is the choice. You're operating from the basketballcentric universe perspective still. Embrace the heliocentric universe. The earth is not flat.

The choice was notre dame football in, or everything notre dame out, same choice we have today for the conference. Same choice we had in 1995. Same choice that the ACC commissioner made public today.

THe strongest this conference has ever been, was in 2001-2002 when Miami won the football national championship. Notre Dame and UConn women's b-ball was dominating and winning national cahmpionships. UConn men's b-ball was 2 years removed from a national championship. Tech won the gator bowl, and was nationally ranked. Syracuse won their bowl game and was ranked.

THe media though, the media played the big east as the black sheep, and the commissioner did nothing to stop it. Miami was pissed. ANother poster gave an example of heisman advertising for a west coast ncaa team player in times square, while the big east was doing nothing for football as an organization.

It was the perfect time to squeeze notre dame football, and the conference I think, most definitely would have been better off either with or without Notre Dame at that point moving forward.

And the reason is simple, if notre dame football joined - no need to explain. But if Notre Dame football did not join, and the entire program left......the ONLY way that happens, is if big east leadership is clearly valuing football as top priority and if football is top priority, it never gets to the point that all of the original northeast football independants beside Penn State end up in the ACC.

 

[Mr.Phat]

Why not. Blaming Notre Dame is like blaming Marinatto. It prevents someone from having to say "we're screwed primarily because not enough people care about UConn football."

Put a vastly better team on the field and a lot more people will "care about UConn football." Maybe cruel but true. UConn football is not our ugly offspring that we're either morally obligated to love or do love because he or she is kin. There is not much to love about this UConn football team.

Passion for a sports team is like that for a beautiful woman. You can't help but be a fan.