Geno Auriemma thrashing Notre Dame for not joining in football

[Druken Friar]

No it doesn't, try reading boy. He hates the hypocrisy associated with college football, not college football. Stop searching for scapegoats.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...etired-rather-than-deal-with-fragile-big-east

 

[BlueMAB]

But Carl,

ND was never going to join. They've made that clear. And the football schools could have split if that was the sticking point, and they didn't.

So why would any football school still be here, if the conference leadership had pushed the conference to get rid of one of it's schools? (something no conference president is going to do anyway).

 

[Carl Spackler]

I can't. But he doesn't get the job without support from the football schools. It's 8-8, some football schools had to support him...then there's this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11bigeast.html

In his final interview with a panel of Big East presidents and athletic directors in the fall, Marinatto established himself as the runaway choice in a field that included the former Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg.
“The final meeting was one of the most impressive interview sessions I had participated in in 35 years of conducting interviews,” Pittsburgh’s chancellor, Mark Nordenberg, said. “It was the perfect combination of thoughtful professionalism.”

Right. Somewhere in this above, I think in the post you quote, I wrote that Marinatto earned the job. Marinatto is the guy, not Tranghese, that really wanted to keep football and basketball together in the same conference.

I'm pretty sure he did actually earn unanimous support.

The problem in what you said, is taht Marinatto is a Tranghese clone.

I don't think he is. I hope he isn't, because if he does become a Tranghese clone, te conference is really going to die a slow agonizing death.

My problem with Marinatto, is that I don't think he's cut throat enough, in a cut throat world.

The heart and the fist - great book by a really, really, unique human being. Eric Greitens. Greenpeace humanitarian turned navy seal.

There's a time to be compassionate, and a good guy, and there's a time to be cold blooded killer. The dichotomy of the world. You can't have one without the other.

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No it doesn't, try reading boy. He hates the hypocrisy associated with college football, not college football. Stop searching for scapegoats.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...etired-rather-than-deal-with-fragile-big-east

Then he should have tried to change it, instead of kick it to the curb.

 

[BlueMAB]

Right. Somewhere in this above, I think in the post you quote, I wrote that Marinatto earned the job. Marinatto is the guy, not Tranghese, that really wanted to keep football and basketball together in the same conference.

I'm pretty sure he did actually earn unanimous support.

The problem in what you said, is taht Marinatto is a Tranghese clone.

I don't think he is. I hope he isn't, because if he does become a Tranghese clone, te conference is really going to die a slow agonizing death.

My problem with Marinatto, is that I don't think he's cut throat enough, in a cut throat world.

The heart and the fist - great book by a really, really, unique human being. Eric Greitens. Greenpeace humanitarian turned navy seal.

There's a time to be compassionate, and a good guy, and there's a time to be cold blooded killer. The dichotomy of the world. You can't have one without the other.

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

Ok, fair enough, they aren't the same guy. But you said "leadership", you didn't say "Tranghese, but not Marinatto". And that doesn't really get to my point anyway. The football schools could have split over ND (and offered Marinatto a job), they didn't. I just don't see how more "support" from the conference leadership would have changed anything.

 

[Carl Spackler]

But Carl,

ND was never going to join. They've made that clear. And the football schools could have split if that was the sticking point, and they didn't.

So why would any football school still be here, if the conference leadership had pushed the conference to get rid of one of it's schools? (something no conference president is going to do anyway).

Here's where the theory that the businesslawyer asked for comes in. I think the big east conference by 2002, would have been stronger moving forward, had Notre Dame been issued the call, join for football, or get out completely,a nd if they decided not to join, ejected.

Because, in doing that, the conference would have clearly, 100% shown to the likes of Miami, reigning national champion in football, that the conference was looking to support the football interests, and either get stronger as a football conference, by adding Notre Dame, or end the foolishness of letting them be independant in football and not have to find a conference home in the bowl series system.

This was not the case in 1995, when Notre Dame contributed heavily to the survival of the big east conference. If Notre dame was given the call then, and not allowed in, the ocnfernce likely splits. Which is why way back when in this epic, I asked businesslawyer about when specifically he was talking about any time between today and the day in 1995 when Notre Dame joined.

And make no mistake, that the likes of Miami, with their multiple national titles in football was very jealous of Notre Dame's ability to reamin independant.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Ok, fair enough, they aren't the same guy. But you said "leadership", you didn't say "Tranghese, but not Marinatto". And that doesn't really get to my point anyway. The football schools could have split over ND (and offered Marinatto a job), they didn't. I just don't see how more "support" from the conference leadership would have changed anything.

i don't know what I wrote anymore where. I need a drink. A nice scotch, and a shower.

All I know is taht the big east is a conference among the power players in teh BCS. The media is biased. The fotoball world is biased against us. For good reason. As long as the BCS exists and we've got enough teams, we'll be at the table.

Friar tuck has a real good chance, to make it all good. But he's got to shake the basketball dominance of the intercollegiate landscape mold, and he's got to channel the warrior mentality. Being the good guy, the peacemaker, isn't going to get us through this valley. We need Eric Greitens Fist, not the heart.

If you're going to cut yourself a market share in the northeast, in New York City, Boston, Washington, Philadelphia, you better be bringing your brass balls and walk in with all guns blazing.

I think that ACC has proven that, by repeatedly failing to kill the big east. I have less confidence in their leadership than I do in the big east. Syracuse must be tting their pants that they're going to get taken out of new york city. What a dumb move they made.

But anyway, it's the ultimate irony, that the new york market, reopened by the Steinbrenners to college football, might just be earned by football programs in Texas and Idaho.

Where's my scotch. Catch y'all later.

 

[businesslawyer]

Here's where the theory that the businesslawyer asked for comes in. I think the big east conference by 2002, would have been stronger moving forward, had Notre Dame been issued the call, join for football, or get out completely,a nd if they decided not to join, ejected.

Because, in doing that, the conference would have clearly, 100% shown to the likes of Miami, reigning national champion in football, that the conference was looking to support the football interests, and either get stronger as a football conference, by adding Notre Dame, or end the foolishness of letting them be independant in football and not have to find a conference home in the bowl series system.

This was not the case in 1995, when Notre Dame contributed heavily to the survival of the big east conference. If Notre dame was given the call then, and not allowed in, the ocnfernce likely splits. Which is why way back when in this epic, I asked businesslawyer about when specifically he was talking about any time between today and the day in 1995 when Notre Dame joined.

And make no mistake, that the likes of Miami, with their multiple national titles in football was very jealous of Notre Dame's ability to reamin independant.

I didn't reply because I thought I was giving you a break. But here goes:

Your theory is that Miami, which had a football relationship with Notre Dame but was never in a football conference with Notre Dame, would not have left the Big East for the ACC, despite the added money, geographic nearness, academic prestige and lack of a hybrid structure, if Notre Dame, with whom they weren't playing football anyway, was no longer a basketball member of the conference?

Look, it didn't happen so no one can prove that you're wrong, but that really doesn't seem Roswellian to you? You really think that makes sense to someone who is looking in from the outside and doesn't have their mind made up already? Unless, of course, you actually have some reason to believe Miami wanted ND out of the basketball conference? But, every time I ask people to post where a school (not fans or a coach but a school) wanted the Irish out, all I get in a response is the sound of crickets.

 

[ruskin]

The big east conference needs a warrior in charge right now.

I think UConn has a warrior in charge in Dr. Herbst. At this point, that's all Iwant. Wouldn't be surprised if Geno was asked to play the bad cop role today re ND. Also think the #BegHarder folks around here are going to be eating crow when this is over.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think UConn has a warrior in charge in Dr. Herbst. At this point, that's all Iwant. Wouldn't be surprised if Geno was asked to play the bad cop role today re ND. Also think the #BegHarder folks around here are going to be eating crow when this is over.

No they won't. Trust me. Never happens around here.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I didn't reply because I thought I was giving you a break. But here goes:

Your theory is that Miami, which had a football relationship with Notre Dame but was never in a football conference with Notre Dame, would not have left the Big East for the ACC, despite the added money, geographic nearness, academic prestige and lack of a hybrid structure, if Notre Dame, with whom they weren't playing football anyway, was no longer a basketball member of the conference?

Look, it didn't happen so no one can prove that you're wrong, but that really doesn't seem Roswellian to you? You really think that makes sense to someone who is looking in from the outside and doesn't have their mind made up already? Unless, of course, you actually have some reason to believe Miami wanted ND out of the basketball conference? But, every time I ask people to post where a school (not fans or a coach but a school) wanted the Irish out, all I get in a response is the sound of crickets.

My theory is that Miami was pissed off at the image of the big east, coming off a national championship and having the media paint a picture of the conference as weak, basketball oriented, everything we know about. Miami wasn't in a football conference with notre dame, and stopped playing them for a while after 1989, b/c they were both independant until 1990, when the big bowls got together and formated the coalition, or alliance or whatever and tied themselves to conference champions.

Miami wanted a stable, and well respected football conference. They wanted Notre Dame iether in or out, not half way. Getting Notre Dame in - ideal. Getting Notre Dame out- solidarity.

The ACC offered a lot that makes sense to Miami, as you noted. What they didn't offer was Notre Dame. What Notre Dame IN would have done, is immediately validated the Big EAst conference as a football power, which would have taken the media tarnish that the 2001 national championship had. Notre Dame being ejected from teh big east, OUT - would not have done the same thing, media wise to validate Miami's presence as national champion, but it would have been the most clear sign, and it still would be the most clear sign, that the conference was no longer being ruled by basketball interests, and therefore would have been stronger in the future.

Would ejecting Notre dame have prevented Miami from eventually leaving? WHo knows. You didn't ask for a theory as to how Miami could have been prevented from leaving.

But had Notre Dame been given the call in 2002? I believe if they were ejected in 2002, the conference would have been stronger going forward, because to eject Notre Dame, would take leadership that valued football above anything else.

 

[businesslawyer]

My theory is that Miami was pissed off at the image of the big east, coming off a national championship and having the media paint a picture of the conference as weak, basketball oriented, everything we know about. Miami wasn't in a football conference with notre dame, and stopped playing them for a while after 1989, b/c they were both independant until 1990, when the big bowls got together and formated the coalition, or alliance or whatever and tied themselves to conference champions.

Miami wanted a stable, and well respected football conference. They wanted Notre Dame iether in or out, not half way. Getting Notre Dame in - ideal. Getting Notre Dame out- solidarity.

The ACC offered a lot that makes sense to Miami, as you noted. What they didn't offer was Notre Dame. What Notre Dame IN would have done, is immediately validated the Big EAst conference as a football power, which would have taken the media tarnish that the 2001 national championship had. Notre Dame being ejected from teh big east, OUT - would not have done the same thing, media wise to validate Miami's presence as national champion, but it would have been the most clear sign, and it still would be the most clear sign, that the conference was no longer being ruled by basketball interests, and therefore would have been stronger in the future.

Would ejecting Notre dame have prevented Miami from eventually leaving? WHo knows. You didn't ask for a theory as to how Miami could have been prevented from leaving.

But had Notre Dame been given the call in 2002? I believe if they were ejected in 2002, the conference would have been stronger going forward, because to eject Notre Dame, would take leadership that valued football above anything else.

Good duck*ing God. Stop it. The choice was not between Notre Dame all in or Notre Dame all out. Notre Dame wasn't joining. What Miami would have done if Notre Dame was all in is totally irrelevant to reality.

The choice was Notre Dame in for basketball or Notre Dame out for basketball. That was the only choice. And having Notre Dame out for basketball would not have come near changing the fact that the Big EAst was perceived to be the weakest of the major conferences in football because, at that time, it was the weakest. It had six schools that weren't total crap (because at that time Temple and Rutgers were), and of those Pitt was going through a long period of mediocrity, BC was in an insolated football region with a history of no national importance and WVU and VPI were rising but had no historical market prestige. And the entire conference was based in a region of the country that didn't give a damn about college football since Army and the Ivy League were stripped of their historical importance. Notre Dame being out for basketball didn't change any of that.

I am really, really going to try to stop posting on this for a while, so please don't ask me to respond. UConn joined the weakest big time football conference, and it did so because no other major conference would have touched us with a ten foot pole. Unfortunately, the weakest conference is now imploding. Not because of the leadership in Providence (which is not to say they've done a good job), not because of Notre Dame (which had zippo to do with our football conference) and not because the football conference is associated with catholic basketball schools. The football conference is failing because before we got stronger by building the programs one by one (which was in fact happening), stronger competitors decided to eat us alive. It is that simple, but I apparently can't make people accept that so I'm just going to stop until something new actually happens.

Good evening all.

 

[Section205]

BL, have a drink on me!!!

 

[Carl Spackler]

drinks all around on me.

you asked for a theory, I gave you one. The choice, the issue at hand, was never about notre dame basketball in or out. It's all about football. You keep brining up basketball. Notre dame made it clear that they wanted football independance. The big east didn't need to accept that, that is the choice. You're operating from the basketballcentric universe perspective still. Embrace the heliocentric universe. The earth is not flat.

The choice was notre dame football in, or everything notre dame out, same choice we have today for the conference. Same choice we had in 1995. Same choice that the ACC commissioner made public today.

THe strongest this conference has ever been, was in 2001-2002 when Miami won the football national championship. Notre Dame and UConn women's b-ball was dominating and winning national cahmpionships. UConn men's b-ball was 2 years removed from a national championship. Tech won the gator bowl, and was nationally ranked. Syracuse won their bowl game and was ranked.

THe media though, the media played the big east as the black sheep, and the commissioner did nothing to stop it. Miami was pissed. ANother poster gave an example of heisman advertising for a west coast ncaa team player in times square, while the big east was doing nothing for football as an organization.

It was the perfect time to squeeze notre dame football, and the conference I think, most definitely would have been better off either with or without Notre Dame at that point moving forward.

And the reason is simple, if notre dame football joined - no need to explain. But if Notre Dame football did not join, and the entire program left......the ONLY way that happens, is if big east leadership is clearly valuing football as top priority and if football is top priority, it never gets to the point that all of the original northeast football independants beside Penn State end up in the ACC.

 

[Mr.Phat]

Why not. Blaming Notre Dame is like blaming Marinatto. It prevents someone from having to say "we're screwed primarily because not enough people care about UConn football."

Put a vastly better team on the field and a lot more people will "care about UConn football." Maybe cruel but true. UConn football is not our ugly offspring that we're either morally obligated to love or do love because he or she is kin. There is not much to love about this UConn football team.

Passion for a sports team is like that for a beautiful woman. You can't help but be a fan.

 

[The Funster]

I'm with you Carl. Some people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Football was going to drive the bus nationally and everyone saw that it wasn't going to be that way in the Big East. Miami, VT and BCU left because they saw that the BE was never going to aggressively pursue FB the way it had to be pursued. Syracuse would have left then too if not for their loyalty to the BE.

Was the BE the weakest of the major conferences? Yes, and because of the hybrid model it was destined to stay that way. I mean, the BE football side stayed at 8 because that was the minimum needed to keep the AQ. What kind of ambition was that? Why didn't the BE proactively add more FB schools? Oh right, that would have made things unwieldy for the BB onlies. Football was never going to drive the bus in the Big East. Basketball and ND were given more credence and that is why the football side has eroded.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You know, the only reason we can be screwed in this whole situation, is if our leadership doesn't get the job done, and done right this time. Why is 12 teams good now, but in 2004? or 2010 for that matter?

the answer is because football always was riding backseat, not even shotgun, to basketball in this conference.

It cannot be that way anymore, if this conference is to survive. Football needs to take the driver's seat.

It's sad,to me, that we had to lose all the original teams in the region for it to come to this.

But with the power of the new york market behind us, and I argue a major share of Boston as well, we're going to be just fine when all this eventually clears. I see a lot more UConn headlines in the boston media than I see other major colleges.

I welcome NBC with open arms.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Put a vastly better team on the field and a lot more people will "care about UConn football." Maybe cruel but true. UConn football is not our ugly offspring that we're either morally obligated to love or do love because he or she is kin. There is not much to love about this UConn football team.

Passion for a sports team is like that for a beautiful woman. You can't help but be a fan.

This is exactly right. We've got no choice right now, but to blaze ahead and win football games, regardless of who we play and where. Who the heck knows what the college football post season will be like in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years.

We've got to become a recruiting powerhouse for football. We're on the right track.

I'm so very glad that we've got people with decades of experience in successfully recruiting for football programs in the northeast. Everything happens for a reason, so the saying goes.

Back in the 80's, these guys were recruiting for the likes of Yale, Syracuse and Rutgers when they weren't affiliated with any bowl games. Worst case scenario, they finish their coaching careers building successful teams the same way they started, in the same places, but with a lifetime of experience to use and pass along to the next generation.

 

[whaler11]

There is so much insanity in this thread it's hard to believe. None of this is Notre Dame's fault. This has been coming for years and the writing has been on the wall the entire time. Of course when you point out that you can read the writing on the wall, that just means you hate the Big East and UConn...

You can welcome NBC with open arms, but I'm not sure what you think they are going to give you... I don't know exactly what teams are going to be in the Big East 3 years from now, but I can promise you the league as a whole will be complete dogcrap. I just hope it's someone else's problem.

 

[whaler11]

We've got to become a recruiting powerhouse for football. We're on the right track.

How exactly do you have enough information to determine that UConn is on the right track to become a 'recruiting powerhouse for football'. Because it sounds good to say and is a key plank in your platform? How about they actually get the current class signed and enrolled in this zombie conference before we crown anyone King of Recruiting?

If Air Supply goes back to into the studio do you expect a platinum record because they had a lot of hits in the 80s? It's time to let go of Yale - the world is a different place.

Whatever you do, don't let reality get in the way of your opinion.

 

[Carl Spackler]

There is so much insanity in this thread it's hard to believe. None of this is Notre Dame's fault. This has been coming for years and the writing has been on the wall the entire time. Of course when you point out that you can read the writing on the wall, that just means you hate the Big East and UConn...

You can welcome NBC with open arms, but I'm not sure what you think they are going to give you... I don't know exactly what teams are going to be in the Big East 3 years from now, but I can promise you the league as a whole will be complete dogcrap. I just hope it's someone else's problem.

I really don't understand what good you see in the University of Connecticut and why you write here. It's so odd.

Of any college in the northeast USA right now, that has the potential to survive on it's own with the help of a single media outlet (like NBC) behind it - it's UConn.

UConn women's basketball is a big television draw. UConn men's basketball is a big television draw. UConn football is a big enough television draw in less than two years of you know, actually being on TV regularly, and every game STILL isn't available....but still - with that limited coverage, it's been enough ratings wise that SNY is expanding it's coverage in the market.

Susan Herbst is driving a ferrari right now. If the big east can't get things done right, we might just need to take this thing for a ride around the tracks on our own for awhile.

 

[Carl Spackler]

How exactly do you have enough information to determine that UConn is on the right track to become a 'recruiting powerhouse for football'. Because it sounds good to say and is a key plank in your platform? How about they actually get the current class signed and enrolled in this zombie conference before we crown anyone King of Recruiting?

If Air Supply goes back to into the studio do you expect a platinum record because they had a lot of hits in the 80s? It's time to let go of Yale - the world is a different place.

Whatever you do, don't let reality get in the way of your opinion.

Yet again......why are you here? Did we lose anybody from 2011? Do we have players transferring out to other BCS conference teams? Do we have player(S) transfering IN from other BCS conference teams?

Go away.

 

[whaler11]

I really don't understand what good you see in the University of Connecticut and why you write here. It's so odd.

Of any college in the northeast USA right now, that has the potential to survive on it's own with the help of a single media outlet (like NBC) behind it - it's UConn.

UConn women's basketball is a big television draw. UConn men's basketball is a big television draw. UConn football is a big enough television draw in less than two years of you know, actually being on TV regularly, and every game STILL isn't available....but still - with that limited coverage, it's been enough ratings wise that SNY is expanding it's coverage in the market.

Susan Herbst is driving a ferrari right now. If the big east can't get things done right, we might just need to take this thing for a ride around the tracks on our own for awhile.

Ok, if all those things are true... why are Syracuse and Pittsburgh in a league that will survive and UConn is in a league that is 100% completely dead. Why is Louisville at the top of a list to get into the Big 12 when Missouri finally declares and UConn is flapping in the wind?

I live here on Earth in reality, so let me let you in on a few things. A: Nobody gives a #*$& about women's basketball. B: UConn has as much chance of surviving 'riding around the tracks on their own for awhile' as a human being does surviving on the surface of Venus.

NBC is going to save UConn and the Big East now? By putting them on some cable network buried deep in systems that no one will watch?

Either the administration somehow gets UConn into the ACC or Big 10 - or it's going to be 22,000 people at Rentschler half-watching UConn and ECU.

 

[whaler11]

Yet again......why are you here? Did we lose anybody from 2011? Do we have players transferring out to other BCS conference teams? Do we have player(S) transfering IN from other BCS conference teams?

Go away.

Have they lost any signees yet? Nope. Is it signing day yet? Nope.

Players transferring in from BCS schools? Yeah, that's something to get worked up about. Usually the way to gridiron greatness is to load up on players that couldn't make it at other schools.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Count me among those who understand that nothing could have saved the Big East. Well, short of going back in time and explaining to NBC that Notre Dame will soon have to give up its independence in football unless you also decide to invest in the Big East in a major way.