Geno Auriemma thrashing Notre Dame for not joining in football

[Rumrunner]

Tearing them apart at the media day.

Calls them unconcerned as BE upheavel continues.

ND holds future of BE in the "palm of their hand"

BC, Miami, Va Tech would still be here but for Notre Dame

Says he is "pissed"

 

[businesslawyer]

Why not. Blaming Notre Dame is like blaming Marinatto. It prevents someone from having to say "we're screwed primarily because not enough people care about UConn football."

 

[BlueMAB]

From another thread:

I love Geno, but he's wrong.

Using his analogy, Notre Dame was up front about their insistence on seeing other people from the start. The Big East is in love and wants exclusivity. But Notre Dame isn't going to agree to that, and was up front from the beginning about that. Don't blame anyone but yourself for thinking you could make a girl fall in love when all she really wants is to date and have fun. ND isn't joining, and they aren't the reason the Big East collapsed. Blaming the collapse on their lack of a commitment to Big East football, when they have made it very clear they were never committed to Big East football, is intellectually dishonest and borderline pathetic.​

 

[Yonick]

The bottom line, regarding ND, is the BE agreed to this in the early 90's. Had Trangese insisted ND join in football, or go elsewhere we don't haver these problems today.

 

[businesslawyer]

What problems: We wouldn't have Notre Dame. Exactly what would that be solving?

 

[BlueMAB]

The bottom line, regarding ND, is the BE agreed to this in the early 90's. Had Trangese insisted ND join in football, or go elsewhere we don't haver these problems today.

Yes we would.

 

[The Funster]

Notre Dame is one leg of the three legged conference called the Big East. All three legs were of different length and thus all three contributed to the instability of the league. I'm of the opinion that the Big East's capitulation towards ND's non participation in Big East football while being allowed the possibility of replacing a Big East team in a bowl underlined the tepid leadership of the conference. If ND didn't want to participate in BE FB, fine, then go it alone in that regard.

As one of the three legs, I think it's only natural that ND draw some fire and deservedly so.

 

[BlueMAB]

If ND didn't want to participate in BE FB, fine, then go it alone in that regard.

So you're pissed at ND for accepting the Big East's offer, rather than pissed at the Big East for extending the offer? Interesting.

 

[The Funster]

So you're pissed at ND for accepting the Big East's offer, rather than pissed at the Big East for extending the offer? Interesting.

Read the post.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm of the opinion that the Big East's capitulation towards ND's non participation in Big East football while being allowed the possibility of replacing a Big East team in a bowl underlined the tepid leadership of the conference.

We wouldn't have gotten some of those bowl games without capitulation to ND.

You can pretend that the Big East was always strong and never needed ND, but history tells us otherwise.

 

[IMind]

The silly thing is that people on here crap all over the instability of the Big East... and the football/basketball hybrid... but the only way UConn would ever have been able to upgrade to a BCS conference is with the Big East. UConn is still the only school to go from I-AA/FCS to a BCS game. It just wouldn't have been possible anywhere else... so before you get in your time machine and form a eastern football super-conference or block Notre Dame... think about that. It's just silly to try to blame this on Notre Dame. The same reason Notre Dame is able to park their non-football sports in a high level conference is the same reason UConn was able to upgrade.

 

[businesslawyer]

We wouldn't have gotten some of those bowl games without capitulation to ND.

You can pretend that the Big East was always strong and never needed ND, but history tells us otherwise.

But it doesn't matter. Whether or not we were aligned with ND, whether we would be as strong in football without ND, the choices are we'd be where we are now or worse. Not one theory has been floated as to why we would be in a better position today had ND never been let in. If someone has one, I'm all ears.

I have ND as much as everyone else, but I just don't see how this can rationally be placed at their feet.

 

[BlueMAB]

Read the post.

Ok....you're pissed at ND for accepting the Big East's offer. It's still dumb. The problem is the Big East and the lack of prestige/fanbases, etc of the remaining school. Not the fact ND was always honest about never wanting to join.

 

[nycscooby]

Why not. Blaming Notre Dame is like blaming Marinatto. It prevents someone from having to say "we're screwed primarily because not enough people care about UConn football."

Bizlaw, you've posted this a few times already and I don't understand the point as it applies to conference realignment. For the record, from the beginning I've also said that it takes decades to build a noteworthy college FB program. That when we made the move to D1A, it would take minimum 15-20 years to build up a sizeable and bankable fanbase that would support the brand and at least that long, to build a FB reputation. I still believe that to be the case. When people on this board question why SU or Pitt or BC are better FB products then UConn, tradition and history are the primary reasons. Whether that will be the case in 2031 is an entirely different matter.

This institution has a track record of athletic growth and excellence over the past two decades that cannot be ignored. The rise of UConn athletics since the mid 80's to present is unparalleled in college athletics over that period. The support of the instituion by the state and it being the "only show in town" cannot be underestimated. Remember, many people said the same thing about our BB program and how you couldn't become a national power in Storrs and look what that's become. Factor in also, the expansion of the campus and the rise in quality of the students which not only impacts the academic rank and prestige of the school but should translate to more "well heeled" alumni and more alumni presence in Boston, NYC and other large cities. The projection is an easy sell. While I certainly agree that Pitt and SU are more traditional football powers and admitting them is easier for the ACC members to swallow from a football perspective, I personally do not believe that was the most important factor to our being bypassed.

I think blame falls partially on our own administration, maybe we're just a difficult institution to have as a partner? But, mostly I blame the league office for sticking their collective heads in the sand for years. ND should have been forced in as all sports or booted long ago.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why not. Blaming Notre Dame is like blaming Marinatto. It prevents someone from having to say "we're screwed primarily because not enough people care about UConn football."

Having trouble following your argument, because Pitt and Syracuse are playing in front of friends and family lately.

 

[businesslawyer]

Having trouble following your argument, because Pitt and Syracuse are playing in front of friends and family lately.

And yet, a modest college football fan in Dubuque is more likely to tune in Syracuse vs Wake than Uconn vs. Wake, and is more likely to give Wake credit for beating UConn than Syracuse. Go figure.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

And yet, a modest college football fan in Dubuque is more likely to tune in Syracuse vs Wake than Uconn vs. Wake, and is more likely to give Wake credit for beating UConn than Syracuse. Go figure.

If you say so.

 

[businesslawyer]

Bizlaw, you've posted this a few times already and I don't understand the point as it applies to conference realignment. For the record, from the beginning I've also said that it takes decades to build a noteworthy college FB program. That when we made the move to D1A, it would take minimum 15-20 years to build up a sizeable and bankable fanbase that would support the brand and at least that long, to build a FB reputation. I still believe that to be the case. When people on this board question why SU or Pitt or BC are better FB products then UConn, tradition and history are the primary reasons. Whether that will be the case in 2031 is an entirely different matter.

This institution has a track record of athletic growth and excellence over the past two decades that cannot be ignored. The rise of UConn athletics since the mid 80's to present is unparalleled in college athletics over that period. The support of the instituion by the state and it being the "only show in town" cannot be underestimated. Remember, many people said the same thing about our BB program and how you couldn't become a national power in Storrs and look what that's become. Factor in also, the expansion of the campus and the rise in quality of the students which not only impacts the academic rank and prestige of the school but should translate to more "well heeled" alumni and more alumni presence in Boston, NYC and other large cities. The projection is an easy sell. While I certainly agree that Pitt and SU are more traditional football powers and admitting them is easier for the ACC members to swallow from a football perspective, I personally do not believe that was the most important factor to our being bypassed.

I think blame falls partially on our own administration, maybe we're just a difficult institution to have as a partner? But, mostly I blame the league office for sticking their collective heads in the sand for years. ND should have been forced in as all sports or booted long ago.

That was a great post until the end. So let me try one more time to be as clear as possible.

1. Given the choice between all-in and all-out in the Big EAst, we know for a metaphysical fact that Notre Dame would elect all out. They have said that, and, given they could all-in to the Big Ten, there is no rational reason they should have committed all-in to the Big East.

2. Unless you disagree with 1., you need to set forth a clear reason as to why the Big EAst would be in better shape today if Notre Dame were all-out. Because, having nothing to do with you, this argument continues on and not one poster has hypothesized even a stupid reason as to how the Big EAst would be better off.

 

[The Funster]

Ok....you're pissed at ND for accepting the Big East's offer. It's still dumb. The problem is the Big East and the lack of prestige/fanbases, etc of the remaining school. Not the fact ND was always honest about never wanting to join.

OK, first off, where do I say "I'm pissed"? Let's start off by not putting words into my mouth. Secondly, I'm of the opinion that the Big East has been flawed for a very long time. It is the only major conference that has basketball only schools, football only schools and one school that is in for everything except football. It is also the only major conference that is being forced to it's knees by other major conferences. It's not a dumb idea to suggest that the construction of the Big East made it susceptible to what is happening (and has happened already). Were there other mitigating circumstances both for and against ND? Certainly. But the thought that ND is some innocent bystander who just happened to accept a sweetheart deal is a bit of a reach. But that's just my opinion. You can have your opinion. I won't intimate that it's "dumb" though.

 

[IMind]

And yet, a modest college football fan in Dubuque is more likely to tune in Syracuse vs Wake than Uconn vs. Wake, and is more likely to give Wake credit for beating UConn than Syracuse. Go figure.

I'm not even sure that's it. A lot of the guys making the decisions about college football realignment are old... and they remember Syracuse and Pitt being national brands and UConn hasn't yet established itself as a national brand in football. We're a "basketball school." We don't have decades worth of NFL alumni. They dismiss us the way we dismiss other basketball programs because they don't have 10-15 guys on current NBA rosters.

It's like when you're first out of college and get a bad credit score just because you haven't had time to build a credit history. *shrug*

 

[businesslawyer]

OK, first off, where do I say "I'm pissed"? Let's start off by not putting words into my mouth. Secondly, I'm of the opinion that the Big East has been flawed for a very long time. It is the only major conference that has basketball only schools, football only schools and one school that is in for everything except football. It is also the only major conference that is being forced to it's knees by other major conferences. It's not a dumb idea to suggest that the construction of the Big East made it susceptible to what is happening (and has happened already). Were there other mitigating circumstances both for and against ND? Certainly. But the thought that ND is some innocent bystander who just happened to accept a sweetheart deal is a bit of a reach. But that's just my opinion. You can have your opinion. I won't intimate that it's "dumb" though.

It is not a "dumb idea" to think that the hybrid nature of the BEC contributed to its disadvantage. But it would be a mistake to think the hybrid nature was a bigger issue than the lack of relative market power of the football schools.

 

[businesslawyer]

I'm not even sure that's it. A lot of the guys making the decisions about college football realignment are old... and they remember Syracuse and Pitt being national brands and UConn hasn't yet established itself as a national brand in football. We're a "basketball school." We don't have decades worth of NFL alumni. They dismiss us the way we dismiss other basketball programs because they don't have 10-15 guys on current NBA rosters.

It's like when you're first out of college and get a bad credit score just because you haven't had time to build a credit history. *shrug*

I'm not sure we're saying anything different.

 

[IMind]

I'm not sure we're saying anything different.

Probably not. I get a bit annoyed at the whole 'fan base' argument you brought up earlier... because if it were strictly about fan base ECU and West Virginia would be first on the list. It's this weird sort of in between... Essentially we're stuck with decisions being made not based on any real future projection or study... it's almost like if they're calling my mom and asking her if she knew the school played big time football or not... but I guess that's the point.

This pains me to say... but want to bet if we had beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl last year... we'd be talking about playing Duke twice a year in basketball instead of the merits of Houston vs. Memphis.

 

[ruskin]

Geno is right as the situation stands on 10/20/11. ND no-football deal was OK in 1995, a little less OK after 2003-4. Yes, ND's deal had a small role in UConn upgrade. But no football is not OK anymore.

ND needs to quit being selfish (which seems to be part of Geno's point) and become a real member of a conference. Forget the Big East, pick the B.I.G. or ACC. But pick one so the football dominoes can start falling.

Maybe ND is thinking it can attach itself to the Catholic Big East schools for hoops etc. when this all shakes out, or Horizon League or something like that. But the football Big East schools should not be enabling ND.

BTW, I thought it was shortsighted to drop the ND series because they wouldn't come here. I didn't have a problem going to Foxboro or Meadowlands. Wouldn't mind playing BC at Gillette every year, either.

 

[The Funster]

That was a great post until the end. So let me try one more time to be as clear as possible.

1. Given the choice between all-in and all-out in the Big EAst, we know for a metaphysical fact that Notre Dame would elect all out. They have said that, and, given they could all-in to the Big Ten, there is no rational reason they should have committed all-in to the Big East.

2. Unless you disagree with 1., you need to set forth a clear reason as to why the Big EAst would be in better shape today if Notre Dame were all-out. Because, having nothing to do with you, this argument continues on and not one poster has hypothesized even a stupid reason as to how the Big EAst would be better off.

Wait a second. How about someone demonstrating why the BE was better off having ND? They ran into the BE open arms after they decided not to join the Big 10 for all sports. Where did ND compete in O sports before it came to the BE? Why didn't they just stay there unless the BE offered a better opportunity? Why have the BE FB coaches been pushing the BE to get a once and for all answer from ND, re: joining for FB? I'm sure you'd disagree but one could make the argument that ND needed the BE just as much if not more than the BE needed ND.

What major conference would have accepted ND if the BE hadn't?

Assuming none, which is a profound statement in itself, what other conference would have added ND?