Generational Players-when can you tell?

[hoophuskee]

What are you talking about? He had all the size he needed in Natalie Butler (15 min/game), who was wasted at Uconn. In and out of Geno's dog house her entire time there. Would have lead team in rebounding if given playing time. Azura Stevens was also wasted at 20 min a game the next year. Why is a top draft choice sitting on the bench? Only in Geno world.

Natalie Butler? Is this a joke? Your posts are click-bait. Shame on me for not recognizing the ignore button. Seriously -- Natalie Butler.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I wasn't around then. To me Wilt benefited by being a guy that was a generation ahead of everybody else physically. There was nobody else like him in the 60s. Kareem was about a decade behind Wilt, he didn't put up the same kind of rebounding numbers but he was pretty darn dominant in the late 60s/throughout the 70s. Their careers only overlapped a little.

To me you take any of the big, athletic and talented centers from the 80s/90s, transport them back to 1959 and they do the same thing Wilt did. Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Olajuwon, they all would've annihilated the competition from that era. Wilt was a physical freak who was just ahead of his time.

 

[VidNick]

ssell made those guys. But Cousy, Sharman and Macauley were winning nothing befre Russell.


Natalie Butler? Is this a joke? Your posts are click-bait. Shame on me for nto recognizing the ignroe buton. Seriously -- Natalie Butler.

Led the nation in rebounding after leaving Uconn and scored 15 pts/game. Averaged 13.9 ppg and 13.4 rpg as Freshman at Georgetown. So I ask you, what the hell are you talking about like she is some Kyla Irvin. Only a fool would believe she was not used properly. I guess that would be you!

 

[geordi]

So if a “generational” player is based on championships, Dan Marino and Barry Bonds are not ‘generational’ despite their career accomplishments! Tyler Olander is???

 

[Zanzman]

Tyler is generational on the men’s board for sure

 

[Buzzyboy]

This entire thread could be retitled, “In your opinion what constitutes a generational player?” So to answer your question, “Yes,” IMO EDD is not a generational talent because she did not win a championship, and I will hold the same opinion for Ionescu if the Ducks fall short this year.

As to whether Stiles, EDD or Ionescu are “great” players, there is absolutely no doubt about it based on facts or opinions.

I usually agree with most everything that you say but I think that using National championships to determine who might be a generational player is totally idiotic. If that person is a fantastic player and playing on a mediocre or worse team and was playing at the same time that Breanna and company were winning four consecutive titles but made that team so competitive that they narrowly lost those four national championship games, you would somehow diminish her and degrade her impact or lesson her abilities because she was playing against another extraordinary player who had a much, much, much better supporting cast???? That is about as lame as anything I've ever heard. To insinuate that loses you an enormous amount of credibility with anyone who has any common sense. If Breanna was playing on a scrub team, there would have been NO possibility of her winning four championships and close to zero chance of her winning any at all. She had an amazing team with enormous depth. She herself was embarrassed that she was awarded the Final Four MVP over Moriah Jefferson one year. I think Vegas would have given odds so high against four championships that they would have been off the charts. I think you'd have gotten wonderful odds that she would even get to a championship game if her teammates were mediocre players, at best.

 

[VidNick]

I usually agree with most everything that you say but I think that using National championships to determine who might be a generational player is totally idiotic. If that person is a fantastic player and playing on a mediocre or worse team and was playing at the same time that Breanna and company were winning four consecutive titles but made that team so competitive that they narrowly lost those four national championship games, you would somehow diminish her and degrade her impact or lesson her abilities because she was playing against another extraordinary player who had a much, much, much better supporting cast???? That is about as lame as anything I've ever heard. To insinuate that loses you an enormous amount of credibility with anyone who has any common sense. If Breanna was playing on a scrub team, there would have been NO possibility of her winning four championships and close to zero chance of her winning any at all. She had an amazing team with enormous depth. She herself was embarrassed that she was awarded the Final Four MVP over Moriah Jefferson one year. I think Vegas would have given odds so high against four championships that they would have been off the charts. I think you'd have gotten wonderful odds that she would even get to a championship game if her teammates were mediocre players, at best.

I agree. This is people protecting the status of the Uconn greats at the expense of these other great players. Put Wilt (instead of Russell) on the Celtics or Ted Williams (instead of Joe D) on the Yankees and the results would have been the same. Now when you have someone like Griner surrounded by a pretty darn good cast, winning just once, that player is not 'generational' in my mind.

 

[oldude]

I usually agree with most everything that you say but I think that using National championships to determine who might be a generational player is totally idiotic.

While I truly enjoy engaging in a spirited disagreement with one of the many knowledgeable posters here on the BY, when you call someone "totally idiotic" your argument loses its credibility. Unfortunately, I recognize that our society has increasingly replaced respectful disagreement with name-calling and divisive rhetoric. It is my sincere hope that here on the BY, we can disagree without being disagreeable.

 

[Grad1990]

Imo there has been 5 generational since 1995. Holdsclaw and Parker from Tennessee and Taurasi, Moore and Stewart from Uconn! These 5 players dominated college basketball like no others! 14 National Championships between them and if Candace stayed 1 more year! Maybe Uconn doesnt win in 2009 but none of them played each other in college!

No Brittany Griner? The most dominant, game changing player in WCBB History? Is there seriously any doubt that had she been surrounded by the players your top five were surrounded by that she would have even lost a game during her career?

 

[Grad1990]

This entire thread could be retitled, “In your opinion what constitutes a generational player?” So to answer your question, “Yes,” IMO EDD is not a generational talent because she did not win a championship, and I will hold the same opinion for Ionescu if the Ducks fall short this year.

As to whether Stiles, EDD or Ionescu are “great” players, there is absolutely no doubt about it based on facts or opinions.

Your position that a player can only be considered generational depending on who she plays with and the results thereof is, imo, not a logical argument.

Your position emphasizes external factors to define generational rather than the implicit gifts an individual player might have.

If EDD had stayed at Uconn...she would have had four National Championships on a team that was centered around her.

 

[VidNick]

No Brittany Griner? The most dominant, game changing player in WCBB History? Is there seriously any doubt that had she been surrounded by the players your top five were surrounded by that she would have even lost a game during her career?

Brittany did not and still does not have the 'fire', the will to win the others do. The talent yes. Also, she was on a heck of a team with Odyssey Sims that lost an early game in the tournament that should never have happened. Still, to me its more about the grit and determination. She appears to be a laid back person who may enjoy her life more than those who live and die by the W's. But I don't know that.

 

[j66kicker]

Brittany did not and still does not have the 'fire', the will to win the others do. The talent yes. Also, she was on a heck of a team with Odyssey Sims that lost an early game in the tournament that should never have happened. Still, to me its more about the grit and determination. She appears to be a laid back person who may enjoy her life more than those who live and die by the W's. But I don't know that.

I think you're spot on. Griner has been laid back like that ever since she arrived in Phoenix, and needs Taurasi to get her fired up. (But she will go Barnastle every now and then if Glory Johnson throws scissors at her or Kristine Anigwe gets in her face a little too much for her liking.)

 

[BostonBay]

Boston dominating tonight once again. Effortless double-double. Super efficient. No one has dominated in their Freshman year like she has done. Better numbers & impact than Aja in her Freshman year. That is generational.

 

[nwhoopfan]

No one has dominated in their Freshman year like she has done.

Anigwe was pretty darn good as a Fr. 20.5 ppg shooting .570, 9.3 rpg.

But never mind that, you might want to look at Courtney Paris' Fr. year production. Blows Boston out of the water, not even remotely close. I think you are falling victim to some recency bias.

(in case you don't feel like looking it up, 21.9 ppg shooting .614, 15 rpg, 3.3 bpg)

 

[oldude]

Boston dominating tonight once again. Effortless double-double. Super efficient. No one has dominated in their Freshman year like she has done. Better numbers & impact than Aja in her Freshman year. That is generational.

Uhm.....there was this kid named Stewart.......

 

[nwhoopfan]

Uhm.....there was this kid named Stewart.......

Wasn't she kind of up and down as a Fr? She was really good when it counted most in the Tourney of course.

 

[oldude]

Wasn't she kind of up and down as a Fr? She was really good when it counted most in the Tourney of course.

Well, it depends what you mean by up and down. Stewie started out great, scoring 20+ in 3 of her first 4 games while filling up the stat sheet. Over her first 10 games she scored more points than any other player in UConn history. That includes DT & Maya.

But Geno, who saw Stewie’s enormous potential, wasn’t satisfied with her performance, so he pushed her hard, eventually pulled her out of the starting lineup and she struggled through the middle of the season.

In the end, Geno’s tough love paid off. Starting in the BE tournament and continuing through the Big Dance, Stewie was the best player in the country, earning her first of 4 MOP’s.

 

[bballnut90]

Boston dominating tonight once again. Effortless double-double. Super efficient. No one has dominated in their Freshman year like she has done. Better numbers & impact than Aja in her Freshman year. That is generational.

Boston has been great, but to say "no one has dominated like she has as a frosh" is just inaccurate. Off the top of my head:
-Kristine Anigwe
-Candace Parker
-Seimone Augustus
-Maya Moore
-EDD
-Britney Griner
-Courtney Paris
-Candice Wiggins
-Tasha Humphrey
-Kelsey Mitchell
-Diamond Deshields
-Sabrina Ionescu
-Brianna Turner
-Jessica Shepard
-Janel McCarville

All had similar or superior numbers than Boston does as freshmen. Boston is a unique player and incredibly talented but at this point she's having a more typical FOY campaign compared to an all time great one like Maya Moore/Candace Parker/Tamika Catchings/etc.

Brianna Turner at ND is actually a pretty good comparison when analyzing their freshman seasons. Numbers are strikingly similar and both are playing on a true title contender.

 

[bballnut90]

Well, it depends what you mean by up and down. Stewie started out great, scoring 20+ in 3 of her first 4 games while filling up the stat sheet. Over her first 10 games she scored more points than any other player in UConn history. That includes DT & Maya.

But Geno, who saw Stewie’s enormous potential, wasn’t satisfied with her performance, so he pushed her hard, eventually pulled her out of the starting lineup and she struggled through the middle of the season.

In the end, Geno’s tough love paid off. Starting in the BE tournament and continuing through the Big Dance, Stewie was the best player in the country, earning her first of 4 MOP’s.

The ending of the year was legendary but on the whole it was definitely up and down. She barely played in some big games (ex. Baylor) and struggled in many her freshman year. It wasn't a year like Maya's where she came in as one of the best players in the country and thrived the entire time.

 

[Buzzyboy]

While I truly enjoy engaging in a spirited disagreement with one of the many knowledgeable posters here on the BY, when you call someone "totally idiotic" your argument loses its credibility. Unfortunately, I recognize that our society has increasingly replaced respectful disagreement with name-calling and divisive rhetoric. It is my sincere hope that here on the BY, we can disagree without being disagreeable.

I do have to agree that my choice of words was totally unwarranted. I do apologize for that, sincerely.

 

[cbraarj]

No Brittany Griner? The most dominant, game changing player in WCBB History? Is there seriously any doubt that had she been surrounded by the players your top five were surrounded by that she would have even lost a game during her career?

Taurasi in 03 & 04! Who was she surrounded by!!! Know your history!!!

 

[hoophuskee]

No Brittany Griner? The most dominant, game changing player in WCBB History? Is there seriously any doubt that had she been surrounded by the players your top five were surrounded by that she would have even lost a game during her career?

I don't know which players to put on but your comment imo is comical. She HAD a great team vs Louisville - far superior talent-wise- yet she was part of one of the greatest upsets in wcbbb history. There's some history for you in case you forgot. What I think you don't understand is that 3pt shooting counts. She obviously couldn't affect it vs Louisville. Care to thrown another dart?

In football the most important position is the QB. In basketball not sure centers are the most valuable. They can't affect the perimeter much. SO I know we can look at her frosh year in which she got badly abused by Tina Charles. Then in her senior year she was part of a team that allowed a super upset in which she was powerless to affect the other team defensively. Same in her soph year - her team was favorite but again powerless to affect guard play. ANd you call this "the most dominant?" Is that you Mrs Griner? WHo knows about "literally most dominant." She was favored to win 2 times and lost and another year got completely schooled. When you have superior teams and you cant win- that's a huge indictment.

 

[sivad40]

I don't know which players to put on but your comment imo is comical. She HAD a great team vs Louisville - far superior talent-wise- yet she was part of one of the greatest upsets in wcbbb history. There's some history for you in case you forgot. What I think you don't understand is that 3pt shooting counts. She obviously couldn't affect it vs Louisville. Care to thrown another dart?

In football the most important position is the QB. In basketball not sure centers are the most valuable. They can't affect the perimeter much. SO I know we can look at her frosh year in which she got badly abused by Tina Charles. Then in her senior year she was part of a team that allowed a super upset in which she was powerless to affect the other team defensively. Same in her soph year - her team was favorite but again powerless to affect guard play. ANd you call this "the most dominant?" Is that you Mrs Griner? WHo knows about "literally most dominant." She was favored to win 2 times and lost and another year got completely schooled. When you have superior teams and you cant win- that's a huge indictment.

Are you sure Baylor was the overall favorite to win in Griner's sophomore year? That was year Texas A&M won the national championship and Maya Moore's senior season.

 

[JonathanXIV]

No one has dominated in their Freshman year like she has done. Better numbers & impact than Aja in her Freshman year. That is generational.

No one? Take a look at Maya’s freshman year.

 

[bballnut90]

Are you sure Baylor was the overall favorite to win in Griner's sophomore year? That was year Texas A&M won the national championship and Maya Moore's senior season.

IIRC, they were a consensus top 3 team with Stanford and UCONN, sort of like this year with Oregon/SC/Baylor. Tennessee was excellent that year too. Most thought the big 3 were locks for the Final Four and would duke it out for a title. ND and A&M stole the show.