Generational Players-when can you tell?

[cbraarj]

Ehhh. If Phil Jax had not had Michael Jordan then he wouldn't have gotten the Laker job either; meaning he'd have won little. Had Red Aurebach not had Bill Russell . . .

The point is Geno hasn't wasted his opportunities when he has had these superstars resulting in others to follow. I wouldn't be surprised DT saw how the offense was run so she picked UCONN. Then Maya saw how the offense was run with a superstar like DT and then Stewie did the same with Maya.

I can remember arguing with a very sharp poster years ago when Maya committed to UCONN she thought UCONN would still be too small and that UCONN still needed a pf and Maya would just end up taking KG's minutes. I felt all along Maya could play the pf. Her counter was - wait until a team like Georgia has a tandem of 6'4 players- (not sure they ever got them) how is Maya going to defend that? I countered how are they going to guard Maya from shooting 3's? The superstar offensive player sees that Geno is going to do everything to help bring out their amazing talents. And when you have such a supreme player - more than likely you give that supreme player enough talent-- they'll win. It's the style Geno coaches to that attracts these supreme players.

The point is -- the superstar players- non-centers seem to visualize their style being successful in Geno's system just as the Lakers management visualized Shaq and Kobe working well in Phil Jax's system. He wouldn't have gotten that job if it wasn't for Jordan. So how many titles would he have had?

Now ofc this is a UCONN homer post-- but if I'm a supreme scorer or a supreme athletic big - I couldn't wait to play with Paige. Don't know why some bigs haven't come to UCONN in the past considering how great players like Tina and Stef turned out.

Taurasi a Lakers fan whose team had the nickname of Showtime because of their play! Dee said Uconn was the WCBB team who played Showtime basketball and that's where she wanted to go!

 

[hoophuskee]

Taurasi a Lakers fan whose team had the nickname of Showtime because of their play! Dee said Uconn was the WCBB team who played Showtime basketball and that's where she wanted to go!

I didn't know that or forgot that.

But there is different philosophies. Kim Mulkey and Geno are very different for example.

It's unfortunate we lost Boykin. Camara never healthy, and Stevens left after 1 year. You don't need "6'4 and 6'4 size," but you do need "enough size." Last year and this year it appears we don't have "enough size" while you also need to count on experience and enough interior athleticism to counter the other team's bigs.

I prefer "Showtime." Other coaches and fans -- even fans on here -- they don't. IMO players like DT, Maya and Stewie they don't want to play "grind basketball." They want to run; that's "Showtime.". So it makes absolute sense what you're saying about DT.

 

[Alydar]

I didn't know that or forgot that.

But there is different philosophies. Kim Mulkey and Geno are very different for example.

It's unfortunate we lost Boykin. Camara never healthy, and Stevens left after 1 year. You don't need "6'4 and 6'4 size," but you do need "enough size." Last year and this year it appears we don't have "enough size" while you also need to count on experience and enough interior athleticism to counter the other team's bigs.

I prefer "Showtime." Other coaches and fans -- even fans on here -- they don't. IMO players like DT, Maya and Stewie they don't want to play "grind basketball." They want to run; that's "Showtime.". So it makes absolute sense what you're saying about DT.

The Celtics didn't play "grind" basketball, they ran. But they were never "showtime". To me "showtime" is flash, showing off, not the pace of play. James Worthy was showtime. Larry Bird was MVP. I'm glad Taurasi mistook her perception of what the Huskies were about but Geno has never been a showtime coach.

If you have to debate if an athlete was a generational player they weren't Ask anyone if Tiger Woods was a generational player and except for those who simply hate him the answer is quickly, yes.

Basketball? Wilt. He dominated the sport from his rookie year to when he left. Jordan didn't dominate until Bird and Johnson retired. Wilt scored 50 in like 25 straight games. Scored 100 in a game.

Football? I think Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor.

Baseball? Babe Ruth and Mariano Rivera.

 

[hoophuskee]

The Celtics didn't play "grind" basketball, they ran. But they were never "showtime". To me "showtime" is flash, showing off, not the pace of play. James Worthy was showtime. Larry Bird was MVP. I'm glad Taurasi mistook her perception of what the Huskies were about but Geno has never been a showtime coach.

If you have to debate if an athlete was a generational player they weren't Ask anyone if Tiger Woods was a generational player and except for those who simply hate him the answer is quickly, yes.

Basketball? Wilt. He dominated the sport from his rookie year to when he left. Jordan didn't dominate until Bird and Johnson retired. Wilt scored 50 in like 25 straight games. Scored 100 in a game.

Football? I think Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor.

Baseball? Babe Ruth and Mariano Rivera.

You're right regarding "Showtime" That was all Lakers. . I was using DT's context. And UCONN is a "show" to opposing fans imo. But it isn't "Lakers Showtime." You're right. I enjoy UCONN's offensive execution which to me is a show. ANd it must've been for DT.

For me-- I love fastbreak basketball. The Celts and the Lakers played uptempo basketball. Geno looks to push his teams to play fast-paced uptempo basketball.

Off-topic: But . . . are you trying to say Bird and Johnson were greater than Jordan though? I enjoyed Bird the most because I love shooters that can score. But you aren't suggesting Bird was greater than Jordan, are you? Or Magic?

 

[VidNick]

I said this about Taurasi and so did everyone else over 15 years ago! Especially her coach! So nice try!

Then I brought it back to the forefront. However, the context I used it in was different: To point out that 9 of Geno's 11 Championships included players that were among the top players of all time, not just because of their talent, but their will to win. I pointed it out as a counter to Geno can walk on water posters.

 

[sivad40]

The Celtics didn't play "grind" basketball, they ran. But they were never "showtime". To me "showtime" is flash, showing off, not the pace of play. James Worthy was showtime. Larry Bird was MVP. I'm glad Taurasi mistook her perception of what the Huskies were about but Geno has never been a showtime coach.

If you have to debate if an athlete was a generational player they weren't Ask anyone if Tiger Woods was a generational player and except for those who simply hate him the answer is quickly, yes.

Basketball? Wilt. He dominated the sport from his rookie year to when he left. Jordan didn't dominate until Bird and Johnson retired. Wilt scored 50 in like 25 straight games. Scored 100 in a game.

Football? I think Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor.

Baseball? Babe Ruth and Mariano Rivera.

Jordan won his first NBA championship against Magic Johnson and the Lakers and Bird was still an active player when that happened.

 

[VidNick]

Uh oh, UCLA coach Cori Close just called Ionecu a generational player during an interview. Somebody send her a link to this thread.

She is. When I saw her blow up the McDonalds game her senior HS season, I thought she had a chance. She has been the leader of the Oregon team since her freshman season.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Sabrina has blown away the record for triple-doubles, and her team has become hugely successful. I’d call that generational.

 

[hoophuskee]

Then I brought it back to the forefront. However, the context I used it in was different: To point out that 9 of Geno's 11 Championships included players that were among the top players of all time, not just because of their talent, but their will to win. I pointed it out as a counter to Geno can walk on water posters.

Those posters are correct. The context of your point imo is wrong.

 

[VidNick]

Those posters are correct. The context of your point imo is wrong.

So Geno walks on water? I would take Muffet in a game situation any time. It has only been the last few years that she has taken recruiting to a Uconn level.

 

[VidNick]

As a Uconn grad I took an interest in the Women around 1991 or so. Developed an interest in women's basketball in general. Saw many Uconn games in person till moving out of State. Anyway, in talking about generational players, the best woman's player college player I have ever seen is Jackie Stiles. She played the game like the men. A tremendous pure shooter who could also take it to the basket. She took a nothing team to the final four. Over 50% shooter in all four years. 45% three-point shooter. She was WNBA rookie of the year and then boom: one significant injury after another. She would have been an all-time great as a pro.

 

[hoophuskee]

So Geno walks on water? I would take Muffet in a game situation any time. It has only been the last few years that she has taken recruiting to a Uconn level.

Yes -- just don't take it literal. He isn't God. But if you tone it down a notch in terms of context and consider he is "Phil Jackson" and "Red Auerbach"-- if those guys "walked on water" then so has Geno.

As for the bold-- please define "the last few years" vs how many years has she been competing vs UCONN? Unfortunately we can''t go back-and-forth much more. After this post - you can have last word. The mods won't want a lot of back-and-forth so have at it.

You take Muffett I'll easily take Geno. His 36-1 team from 3 years ago in which his team had no business going 36-1 was nothing short of amazing. Transforming Gabby to being such a "NATIONAL" beast as an inside forward and winning so much and being so dominant for such a small team was amazing. IMO you put way too much emphasis on a last second jump shots in one-and-done tournament specifically designed to try to get upsets.

The fact that you are trying t take away in any manner success form Geno because he has gotten DT, Maya and Stewart is just preposterous.

The campus of UCONN is not as flashy as other campus such as ND. The conference UCONN is currently in stinks. Yet how many more excuses will you and others keep providing if UCONN gets Fudd? Geno promotes a style of play which gets these type of players. You might mistakenly isolate this by calling it "recruiting only." But style of play is more that recruiting too as i gave the Maya Moore example previously. Some coaches would have had her play sf. When Geno/UCONN got DT she thought of UCONN as "Showtime." That's part of coaching. Yet you seem to want to minimize style of play. That's part of coaching. That's teh same style Stewart sees etc.

A final point. There was a poster on here whom I think got a few "likes" identified the 36-1 team from years ago as "less than stellar." Can you imagine what that poster along with others who agreed would have been thinking as a ND fan in the 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 seasons in which his team got upset in the S16 and E8 even though they were a favorite / and a number 1 seed? How was Mufftet's in game coaching then?

So yeah -- in context- if you win 11 championships you can claim you have walked on water.

 

[Scud49]

Basketball? Wilt. He dominated the sport from his rookie year to when he left. Jordan didn't dominate until Bird and Johnson retired. Wilt scored 50 in like 25 straight games. Scored 100 in a game.

And Bill Russell outfoxed him and the Celtics won time after time after time. Wilt was tremendous, but Russ was THE team player of that era - and knew how to win.

 

[sivad40]

You take Muffett I'll easily take Geno. His 36-1 team from 3 years ago in which his team had no business going 36-1 was nothing short of amazing. Transforming Gabby to being such a "NATIONAL" beast as an inside forward and winning so much and being so dominant for such a small team was amazing. IMO you put way too much emphasis on a last second jump shots in one-and-done tournament specifically designed to try to get upsets.

Geno did have something to work with. That UConn team had a player who was the consensus ran #1 coming out of high school, 3 other players who ranked in the top 10 coming out of high school, and another player who was ranked as the best player coming out of her country.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Is someone suggesting Larry Brod wasn't a show-off? Ha.

 

[hoophuskee]

Geno did have something to work with. That UConn team had a player who was the consensus ran #1 coming out of high school, 3 other players who ranked in the top 10 coming out of high school, and another player who was ranked as the best player coming out of her country.

Where did I say he had nothing to work with? But he had no size. Can you tell me which center he had? You quoted all the all-american numbers. Who were his bigs? 6'1 - 6'2 thin Collier and and he transformed a 5'11 guard into a national beast in the paint.

Unless you are telling me right now size doesn't matter at all vs recruiting rankings? Or are you going to count Lou as "size" and a low post defender in the paint?

 

[VidNick]

And Bill Russell outfoxed him and the Celtics won time after time after time. Wilt was tremendous, but Russ was THE team player of that era - and knew how to win.

That's ridiculous! Russell had some of the best players of the era around him, year after year. The only time Wilt played on a really good Philly team, they clobbered the Celtics and are considered one of the great all-time teams.

 

[VidNick]

Where did I say he had nothing to work with? But he had no size. Can you tell me which center he had? You quoted all the all-american numbers. Who were his bigs? 6'1 - 6'2 thin Collier and and he transformed a 5'11 guard into a national beast in the paint.

Unless you are telling me right now size doesn't matter at all vs recruiting rankings? Or are you going to count Lou as "size" and a low post defender in the paint?

What are you talking about? He had all the size he needed in Natalie Butler (15 min/game), who was wasted at Uconn. In and out of Geno's dog house her entire time there. Would have lead team in rebounding if given playing time. Azura Stevens was also wasted at 20 min a game the next year. Why is a top draft choice sitting on the bench? Only in Geno world.

 

[Alydar]

You're right regarding "Showtime" That was all Lakers. . I was using DT's context. And UCONN is a "show" to opposing fans imo. But it isn't "Lakers Showtime." You're right. I enjoy UCONN's offensive execution which to me is a show. ANd it must've been for DT.

For me-- I love fastbreak basketball. The Celts and the Lakers played uptempo basketball. Geno looks to push his teams to play fast-paced uptempo basketball.

Off-topic: But . . . are you trying to say Bird and Johnson were greater than Jordan though? I enjoyed Bird the most because I love shooters that can score. But you aren't suggesting Bird was greater than Jordan, are you? Or Magic?

The only thing about Jordan, and it's not really about him, is that he and the Bulls had no worthy adversary during their string. Bird and Johnson had each other and each challenged the other. Jordan and the Bulls never faced adversity.
That, and the fact that Jordan, even with 50 points, lost to Bird and the Celtics. But that's just my fandom showing.

 

[VidNick]

Yes -- just don't take it literal. He isn't God. But if you tone it down a notch in terms of context and consider he is "Phil Jackson" and "Red Auerbach"-- if those guys "walked on water" then so has Geno.

As for the bold-- please define "the last few years" vs how many years has she been competing vs UCONN? Unfortunately we can''t go back-and-forth much more. After this post - you can have last word. The mods won't want a lot of back-and-forth so have at it.

You take Muffett I'll easily take Geno. His 36-1 team from 3 years ago in which his team had no business going 36-1 was nothing short of amazing. Transforming Gabby to being such a "NATIONAL" beast as an inside forward and winning so much and being so dominant for such a small team was amazing. IMO you put way too much emphasis on a last second jump shots in one-and-done tournament specifically designed to try to get upsets.

The fact that you are trying t take away in any manner success form Geno because he has gotten DT, Maya and Stewart is just preposterous.

The campus of UCONN is not as flashy as other campus such as ND. The conference UCONN is currently in stinks. Yet how many more excuses will you and others keep providing if UCONN gets Fudd? Geno promotes a style of play which gets these type of players. You might mistakenly isolate this by calling it "recruiting only." But style of play is more that recruiting too as i gave the Maya Moore example previously. Some coaches would have had her play sf. When Geno/UCONN got DT she thought of UCONN as "Showtime." That's part of coaching. Yet you seem to want to minimize style of play. That's part of coaching. That's teh same style Stewart sees etc.

A final point. There was a poster on here whom I think got a few "likes" identified the 36-1 team from years ago as "less than stellar." Can you imagine what that poster along with others who agreed would have been thinking as a ND fan in the 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 seasons in which his team got upset in the S16 and E8 even though they were a favorite / and a number 1 seed? How was Mufftet's in game coaching then?

So yeah -- in context- if you win 11 championships you can claim you have walked on water.

The one and done jump shots were made by the appropriate player under the circumstances. In some of those games, the Huskies have looked lost in those moments. One and done tournaments meant to spring upsets? What should they do, make them the best of three or five? Don't forget, despite all the rhetoric, there are only a half dozen teams in a given year who have a chance to win it all.

 

[Alydar]

Jordan won his first NBA championship against Magic Johnson and the Lakers and Bird was still an active player when that happened.

His first. Most of the years that the Bulls won the title there wasn't a single team even close to the level of the Lakers and Celtics when Bird and Johnson were at their prime.

 

[Alydar]

You're right regarding "Showtime" That was all Lakers. . I was using DT's context. And UCONN is a "show" to opposing fans imo. But it isn't "Lakers Showtime." You're right. I enjoy UCONN's offensive execution which to me is a show. ANd it must've been for DT.

For me-- I love fastbreak basketball. The Celts and the Lakers played uptempo basketball. Geno looks to push his teams to play fast-paced uptempo basketball.

Off-topic: But . . . are you trying to say Bird and Johnson were greater than Jordan though? I enjoyed Bird the most because I love shooters that can score. But you aren't suggesting Bird was greater than Jordan, are you? Or Magic?

Notice that the only player I named was Wilt.

 

[VidNick]

The Celtics didn't play "grind" basketball, they ran. But they were never "showtime". To me "showtime" is flash, showing off, not the pace of play. James Worthy was showtime. Larry Bird was MVP. I'm glad Taurasi mistook her perception of what the Huskies were about but Geno has never been a showtime coach.

If you have to debate if an athlete was a generational player they weren't Ask anyone if Tiger Woods was a generational player and except for those who simply hate him the answer is quickly, yes.

Basketball? Wilt. He dominated the sport from his rookie year to when he left. Jordan didn't dominate until Bird and Johnson retired. Wilt scored 50 in like 25 straight games. Scored 100 in a game.

Football? I think Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor.

Baseball? Babe Ruth and Mariano Rivera.

At their best, Geno's teams run the offense like the 60's Celtics: a thing of beauty. Layups are still the best shot so Geno runs when given the chance, just like any great coach would run. The Lakers of the 80's were a one-off collection of players with unique but complementary skills. Definitely fun to watch. Bird would have fit right in with the Lakers. Instead, he fit in with some absolutely great talent in Boston playing a brand of basketball that had a semblance of the 60's teams. Magic would have fit in with the Celtics too.

 

[Alydar]

And Bill Russell outfoxed him and the Celtics won time after time after time. Wilt was tremendous, but Russ was THE team player of that era - and knew how to win.

I couldn't agree more. But as far as being dominant Wilt is both literally and figuratively head and shoulders above everyone else in NBA history.
I remember Russell saying that he knew he couldn't stop Wilt in a game but he would save himself until late in a close game and then block one of Wilt's shots when it mattered. Wilt would have 35 & 20 but the celtics would win the game.

 

[BostonBay]

1969 NBA Finals. LA had, by far, the better individual talent (Jerry West, Wilt, Elgin Baylor in their primes) but C's behind Russell beat them in 7 based on team basketball. Jerry West brought home the series MVP, while the C's brought home another Title.