Game of Thrones Season 8 | Page 12 | The Boneyard

Game of Thrones Season 8

Dany sucks at military strategy and thought she was invincible cause of her dragons.
 
I'm at the point of hate-watching this final season. I hate that I hate it but every character has become paper thin, making decisions and dealing with consequences that fit neatly into the plot. Every character has gotten so stupid. Almost none of them actually think anymore, none use a sliver of logic. The conveniences for the sake of plot are deflating. Characters should drive the plot, not the other way around. Last season was bad enough, this season has been so far from typical GOT that feels like an underwhelming show you'd find on AMC at 10:30 PM on a Tuesday.

1. Arya is the best assassin in the world. She just killed the Night King, an 8,000-year-old superpowered ice demon. How about we send her by herself to Kings Landing to kill Cersei? Not to mention she knows Kings Landing inside and out. All the top people in Winterfell are having their strategy session about the south--and mention their concern about limiting casualties--and no one thinks to ask Arya about doing it. And the icing on the cake, Cersei is on Arya's list and Arya is now traveling south to do it anyway. Plan A: send her, give the troops in the north time to recover, if she fails then proceed with your hairbrained Plan B (the current actual Plan A).

2. Bronn strolls into Winterfell, armed with a giant crossbow, and finds two of the most important men in the Northern Army who are sitting in some random room inside a giant castle. Maybe a few guards would have stopped him? Maybe Bronn would have struggled to find them since it's a massive castle at night? This is minor and I don't really care but I couldn't help but notice how absurd the whole thing was and how we never had conveniences like this in earlier seasons. Writers' Room: "Okay, we'll have Bronn get from KL to Winterfell in like two days, then have him stroll into the castle armed with a big ass weapon and find the Lannisters and threaten them." Okay, boss!

3. Euron is the worst character in the series. He's a comic book-level bad guy. How many times is he going to be in the right place at the right time, to do something completely absurd--flawless shooting of a dragon from a boat (but only to kill the first one, then they turn into Stormtroopers who can't hit Dany's dragon when it's right in front of them). Not to mention all Dany had to do was fly around the rear of the fleet and burn them all. Lastly, why stop the ambush and let the survivors on the beach get away? Made no sense. Of course, on top of all of this, how does Dany not notice his fleet? If they're hiding behind those rocks, there's no line of sight for multiple perfect arrow shots. How does Euron know they're sailing for Dragonstone anyway? D&D said "word of the North's victory over the AotD had reached the south by now." Why would the north ever send word? It would be in their best interest to not send word south, to let Kings Landing believe that the Great War up north still raged on; or even better that everyone was killed by White Walkers.

4. I can let the first three points slide, I guess. Whatever, they weren't that egregious but still stupid. The part that killed me, that made me realize the showrunners are completely lost, was the final scene with Cersei. This is a woman who blew up a sept full of hundreds of innocent people. She is vile and evil and will do anything to keep the Throne and protect her children (unborn or otherwise). There is no way her character wouldn't try to end the war right then and there. Twenty-five Unsullied and a handful of higher-ups. She has the castle, she has the numbers, she has the higher ground, she has the artillery: Loose the arrows, fire the giant arrow canons, hell--have your army right behind the gate ready to charge them in the open field. Cersei had the opportunity to eliminate the biggest threat to her throne and to her unborn child's life and she let Dany walk away. Everything we know about Cersei as a character was flushed down the toilet to set up a fun battle at Kings Landing. Plus, it was the perfect opportunity for Cersei to look like a hero to the citizens of Kings Landing. She killed the crazy dragonlady who was going to burn the entire city and murder thousands of innocents. No one would question if it was just or not, she saved most of their lives. Easy spin for Cersei.

I can suspend belief and give in to creative/dramatic license only so much. This season shows exactly why GRRM can't write the final two books. He's backed himself into a corner that's nearly impossible to get out of. I think he gave D&D the main bullet points of how things end but even GRRM, a far superior writer, can't figure out how to do it in a way that makes sense.
 
Varys has always been true to his calling, the "Insider for the People". Sadly, I think his time is now short. My question: does Tyrion turn on him or Dany. He has to pick one.
 
The plot holes get worse and worse every week. How in the world did Dany not see Euron's fleet before he was able to get those shots off? How did they not expect Cersei might be planning an ambush at Dragonstone this whole time the North was fighting off the white walkers? What in the world were Dany and Tyrion thinking walking up to the King's Landing gates with zero protection and not thinking Cersei would wipe them out? Even worse, WHY DIDN'T CERSEI WIPE THEM OUT?!

Worst of all...Jon couldn't even walk over and pat Ghost on the head when he was leaving him forever? WTF DUDE?! You just sent him out on the front lines against the army of the dead, and he somehow came back in one piece. WHAT THE HELL MAN?!

It's a shame that the show has gone downhill so badly. The first few seasons were so good, and the last two have been terrible. And the two dullest characters are the ones that are most likely going to end up on the throne. Ugh.
 
Rico444 said:
What in the world were Dany and Tyrion thinking walking up to the King's Landing gates with zero protection and not thinking Cersei would wipe them out? Even worse, WHY DIDN'T CERSEI WIPE THEM OUT?!
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That scene may have been the low point of the entire series. When Varys and Tyrion were talking, I thought Tryion meant Dany should "talk" to Cersei, meaning send a raven. I couldn't believe they were stupid enough to walk right up to the gates of Kings Landing with 25 people and only one remaining dragon and request Cersei's surrender. Only an idiot would think that'd work. Okay, Dany is young and inexperienced and turning into the Mad Queen--I get why she may think it's a good idea; she's a bit unhinged at the moment. But why in the world does Tyrion, one of Westeros' sharpest minds, think it's a good idea?

I can only imagine what the actors felt when they read through this season's scripts.
 
Re: Kings Landing negotiation: I think that Dany was supposed to be out of range of the archers and the artillery, but the location where they shot the scene was too small. I am willing to give a pass on that. Cersei also can't act like a complete lunatic all the time or she won't be credible.

GoT has dealt with cartoon villains before (see: Ramsay Bolton and Joffrey Baratheon), and I can live with Euron.

The ambush has all kinds of logistical problems. Euron would have to be waiting there for like a month.

The show has to find a home for all the characters. Tormund was not killed off, although I doubt we see him again. Same with Yara. I am OK with a few goodbyes that are not wrapped with a bow, such as Ghost's goodbye.

It is bad enough that Arya was not really consulted about the next stage of the plan, but then she and the Hound, two of the best warriors the North has, walk out the front door and no one notices they are gone.

While GoT got its rep for not being afraid to kill off characters, the show has also learned there is a reason you don't kill off all your main characters. They are not always easy to replace. Losing Robb and Ned was a hit. The show never really recovered from losing Tywin. Losing Renly, Stannis, Mance, the High Sparrow, and the Tyrells as stand alone players in the game took a lot of the depth away from the show.
 
.-.
nelsonmuntz said:
Re: Kings Landing negotiation: I think that Dany was supposed to be out of range of the archers and the artillery, but the location where they shot the scene was too small. I am willing to give a pass on that. Cersei also can't act like a complete lunatic all the time or she won't be credible.
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Yeah, it's just weird, especially after seeing the scorpions being fired at great range from Euron's ship a few scenes earlier. But I assume that's what the showrunners were going for: being at a safe distance. Just a sliver of cleverness on Cersei's part is all that's needed though: have an ambush circle in from behind and trap them. Have a ton of soldiers hiding behind the gate and rush Dany's troops in the open field. The dumbest part was Dany and Tyrion going there; there's no way Tyrion is stupid enough to think Cersei would accept a surrender. That should have been a lose-lose situation they walked into.

As I mentioned in my other post, I think Cersei's lunacy would have been justified in that situation. Heck, I don't know if I'd even classify it as lunacy. She can tell the people of KL she just ended the threat: the crazy dragonlady who wanted to burn the entire city and kill tons of innocents. I think that's far less crazy than blowing up the sept. By her not killing Dany there, hundreds or thousands of lives will now be lost that would have been spared.

The show has to find a home for all the characters. Tormund was not killed off, although I doubt we see him again. Same with Yara. I am OK with a few goodbyes that are not wrapped with a bow, such as Ghost's goodbye.
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I agree, I think these were perfect. The freefolk don't care about quarrels of the Seven Kingdoms. It would have been silly to have Tormund go south; he has no motivation to do so. I was worried they'd make him follow Brienne south (if she went) because they made him such a horn-dog. Yara may return to fight Euron, who knows at this point.
 
ZooCougar said:
This show is getting anticlimactic. It’s like they defeated Hitler and now it’s time to set their sights on Hillary Clinton.
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Unfortunately, for 40% of America that would not be anticlimactic.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Not seeing the boats, and no one considering the fact that Euron may surprise attack someone else, is a plot hole. He already took out one fleet, and no one thought he might try it again?

From what I could find online, Qyburn's scorpions could realistically have a range of about 500 meters shooting parabolically, but the range would be maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of that shooting directly at the Dragons. The Dragon's are probably flying 200 mph, making a parabolic shot impossible and a direct shot basically miraculous.

I looked it up, and King's landing is 1,000 LEAGUES from Winterfell, which is 3,000 miles. Realistically, an army may be able to walk 20 miles in a day, which would beat the snot out of them, but possible for a while. It would take 150 days to get from Winterfell to King's Landing. Has an army ever marched that far in history? Either there was a time jump or they teleported.

My biggest problem with the episode is that Brienne would have killed Jaime on the spot once she realized he was deserting. Her duty is to Sansa, and Sansa would have wanted Jaime killed. Furthermore, there is no way Brienne would have allowed Jaime to switch sides.

I wonder if all the infighting is simply the writers' leading up to leaving us in a world where they are all still fighting at the end. I could live with that ending.
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Ugh. You think they're just going to Sopranos the ending? I have trouble seeing that, if for no other reason than if Martin ever intends to sell more books, people have to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the damn things will conclude and not just cut off.
 
businesslawyer said:
Ugh. You think they're just going to Sopranos the ending? I have trouble seeing that, if for no other reason than if Martin ever intends to sell more books, people have to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the damn things will conclude and not just cut off.
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I loved the Sopranos ending. There was a pile of bodies behind them, but the Sopranos emerged unscathed.
 
Tactical blunders beyond belief. I don’t blame the characters, I blame the writers who are nitwits when it comes to scripting battle scenes.
 
.-.
The Brienne/Jamie hook-up spoiled that relationship too. I took them more as a professional/honor based friendship, not a budding romance.
 
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coachcap said:
This episode takes suspending one's disbelief to a new plane.
Dany not seeing Euron's fleet from above, not circling behind & lighting said fleet up like so many match sticks, Arya turning down the proposal after years of going doe-eyed over Gendry.
There was some predictability: Varys showing his true colors-his allegiance has always been as predictable as the wind blowing. He is, however, correct about the secret of Jon's true identity not staying secret for long.
The key message of last night's episode was Dany's realization that Jon is the charismatic leader that the general public will rally around. She now has deep trust issues with the Starks & other leaders of her alliance. The question to be answered in the last 2 episodes is will she be able to mend fences to keep said alliance intact, or will she travel down the road of her Mad King Father to her eventual undoing.
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At least it wasn't filmed in the dark.
 
ZooCougar said:
Tactical blunders beyond belief. I don’t blame the characters, I blame the writers who are nitwits when it comes to scripting battle scenes.
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The battle scenes are either two long, or too short. They need Goldilocks.
 
Lefty2one said:
That scene may have been the low point of the entire series. When Varys and Tyrion were talking, I thought Tryion meant Dany should "talk" to Cersei, meaning send a raven. I couldn't believe they were stupid enough to walk right up to the gates of Kings Landing with 25 people and only one remaining dragon and request Cersei's surrender. Only an idiot would think that'd work. Okay, Dany is young and inexperienced and turning into the Mad Queen--I get why she may think it's a good idea; she's a bit unhinged at the moment. But why in the world does Tyrion, one of Westeros' sharpest minds, think it's a good idea?

I can only imagine what the actors felt when they read through this season's scripts.
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I was shocked that this scene happened. The dragon was landed in the background with about 4-5 giant cross bows pointed at it. Totally unrealistic and impossibly stupid.
 
.-.
John said:
The Brienne/Jamie hook-up spoiled that relationship too. I took them more as a professional/honor based friendship, not a budding romance.
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Hormones are gonna be Hormones. After fighting the battle to save mankind , professionalism /honor can take a break. It was Jamie’s civic duty to do that. It was time.
 
Horatio said:
I was shocked that this scene happened. The dragon was landed in the background with about 4-5 giant cross bows pointed at it. Totally unrealistic and impossibly stupid.
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Rewatched the last half hour of the latest episode at 10:30 on one of the alternate HBOs to confirm my recall. Dany, Tyrion, Varos, Greyworm & Co. standing within arrow range to dictate terms of surrender. Cersi & Co. smiling smugly from their vantage point.
The writers COULD have justified this scene if only Dany's forces were flying a white flag of truce for this parlay. NOPE. Something simple, & the script "brain trust" couldn't even get THAT right.
 
Another thought:
Cersei was only being true to her own persona with her "Queen of Hearts" butchering of Missandei. At least she gave condemned Miss M. the opportunity to say her piece before sentence was carried out.
But Missandi: The reason that Dany loved her so much was because of M. being the voice of reason & her speaking for the masses. As a "freed slave" she gave Dany great counsel. So I was semi-surprised that, knowing the inevitability of her situation, she voiced the code word meaning "Burn them all to HELL!" Goes totally against her character.
 
I'm pretty good at suspending disbelief, but that dragon scene was bad. The first 25 minutes was cringe worthy as well. At this point, I think Cersei winning is the only acceptable ending.
 
.-.
Mots010 said:
I'm pretty good at suspending disbelief, but that dragon scene was bad. The first 25 minutes was cringe worthy as well. At this point, I think Cersei winning is the only acceptable ending.
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She just has better tech/ weapons at her disposal. Giant cross bows on ships and the walls, etc. She probably rigged several areas on the battle field with that green explosive.
She’ll win on the battlefield but will be done in by an assassin, Qyburn or Greyjoy
 
coachcap said:
This episode takes suspending one's disbelief to a new plane.
Dany not seeing Euron's fleet from above, not circling behind & lighting said fleet up like so many match sticks, Arya turning down the proposal after years of going doe-eyed over Gendry.
There was some predictability: Varys showing his true colors-his allegiance has always been as predictable as the wind blowing. He is, however, correct about the secret of Jon's true identity not staying secret for long.
The key message of last night's episode was Dany's realization that Jon is the charismatic leader that the general public will rally around. She now has deep trust issues with the Starks & other leaders of her alliance. The question to be answered in the last 2 episodes is will she be able to mend fences to keep said alliance intact, or will she travel down the road of her Mad King Father to her eventual undoing.
Expand ...
Regarding Dany, if she drives dragons like my wife drives a car I could totally see her not noticing anything up ahead
 
businesslawyer said:
You think that's a sign of stupidity. More likely she's playing the game (and that she'll ultimately come out in pretty good shape).
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more likely she broke a promise to her brother and will get yet another family member killed.

Arya didnt break her promises.

Only fat mouth spoiled Sansa
 
August_West said:
more likely she broke a promise to her brother and will get yet another family member killed.

Arya didnt break her promises.

Only fat mouth spoiled Sansa
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You know they're not working together? You know that Sansa didn't send Arya to kill Cersei and put the North in charge of the whole Kingdom? You give little credence to Arya telling Jon that Sansa is the smartest person she knows?

We'll see what happens.
 
.-.
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