Game of Thrones - Season 4 | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Game of Thrones - Season 4

Upon further review, HBO appears to have picked a path with the assassination that Martin did not do in the books. I actually thought that there were two separate plots to kill Joffrey in the book and that Tywin suspected one or both of them and allowed them to happen anyway.
 
I was reading a thread on another board that pointed out there is evidence of another group behind the assassination of Joffrey. It is not clear what happened.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I was reading a thread on another board that pointed out there is evidence of another group behind the assassination of Joffrey. It is not clear what happened.
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Watch the last scene again.
 
ZooCougar said:
Watch the last scene again.
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I have seen it, and I have seen the breakdown of the necklace. I get that. But at some point in the books, 3 different groups allude to taking credit for killing Joffrey, and no explanation is ever given for why these three would ever cooperate. So they are either separate plots, one or more of them is lying, or there will hopefully be an explanation for why the three of them conspired together.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I have seen it, and I have seen the breakdown of the necklace. I get that. But at some point in the books, 3 different groups allude to taking credit for killing Joffrey, and no explanation is ever given for why these three would ever cooperate. So they are either separate plots, one or more of them is lying, or there will hopefully be an explanation for why the three of them conspired together.
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The book was pretty clear, unless you think what Sansa is told is a complete lie (And a very good one based on the evidence)
 
.-.
Pmurph678 said:
The book was pretty clear, unless you think what Sansa is told is a complete lie (And a very good one based on the evidence)
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Littlefinger lies all the time and he never explains why the Tyrells would let him in on their scheme.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I was reading a thread on another board that pointed out there is evidence of another group behind the assassination of Joffrey. It is not clear what happened.
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It is not yet entirely clear what happened in the books. It is entirely clear what happened in the HBO series. Not the first ( or last ) the show changes up the books.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I have seen it, and I have seen the breakdown of the necklace. I get that. But at some point in the books, 3 different groups allude to taking credit for killing Joffrey, and no explanation is ever given for why these three would ever cooperate. So they are either separate plots, one or more of them is lying, or there will hopefully be an explanation for why the three of them conspired together.
Expand ...
I read all the books and have no recollection of these 3 groups, but then again there is a lot from the books I have forgotten. From my memory of the books, GRRM really only takes one angle regarding Joffrey's murder, the angle that has been discussed already in this thread. Alas, I digress...

The below article is a really good read. It links to a lot of different fan theories and sites and then even quotes GRRM's Rolling Stone interview regarding Joffrey's murder. NOTE, if you have not read the books DO NOT read the article.

http://flavorwire.com/451715/how-game-of-thrones-book-fans-investigated-joffreys-murder/
 
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So...am I late to the party, or did you know that Shae (Tyrian's whore played by Sibel Kikelli) used to be a star? Ummm, there is a lot of really clips out there on your favorite site if you search on her real name. Enjoy.
 
BUHusky said:
I read all the books and have no recollection of these 3 groups, but then again there is a lot from the books I have forgotten. From my memory of the books, GRRM really only takes one angle regarding Joffrey's murder, the angle that has been discussed already in this thread. Alas, I digress...

The below article is a really good read. It links to a lot of different fan theories and sites and then even quotes GRRM's Rolling Stone interview regarding Joffrey's murder. NOTE, if you have not read the books DO NOT read the article.

http://flavorwire.com/451715/how-game-of-thrones-book-fans-investigated-joffreys-murder/
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Littlefinger may have been part of the plot, or simply known about it. I am not, by the way, saying that Olenna and Margaery didn't kill Joffrey. The Tyrells are probably the strongest players after Littlefinger and Tywin, and Joffrey was dangerous to them. I am just saying I am not 100% sure. Even Martin's own comments point out that he has more to reveal about the events of the Purple Wedding.

I watched the episode again last night:

1) Olenna and Tywin are talking about how the Iron Bank always gets paid.
2) Cersei sends off the Pycelle, the one person that might have known how to save Joffrey, for a contrived reason.

I am going to let this sit for a while. For those just watching the show without reading the books, there are a few minor spoilers in this thread, but you will also note that even among the readers, and the author himself, there seems to be some ambiguity about this event.
 
.-.
Deepster said:
So...am I late to the party, or did you know that Shae (Tyrian's whore played by Sibel Kikelli) used to be a smut star? Ummm, there is a lot of really clips out there on your favorite site if you search on her real name. Enjoy.
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Did not know that. Interesting. For some reason, she doesn't really do it for me. Ygritte, on the other hand, is awesome. If you told me she had done smut, I would be buying every video I could find right this second. Much like with the book, you wonder WTF Jon Snow was thinking. She was ready to run off with him, and he chooses to stay with a bunch of freaks and convicts in the middle of nowhere to fight zombies. Idiot.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Did not know that. Interesting. For some reason, she doesn't really do it for me. Ygritte, on the other hand, is awesome. If you told me she had done smut, I would be buying every video I could find right this second. Much like with the book, you wonder WTF Jon Snow was thinking. She was ready to run off with him, and he chooses to stay with a bunch of freaks and convicts in the middle of nowhere to fight zombies. Idiot.
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Listen. I'm not saying Shae is my favorite on the show....but seeing her in that "sort of role" wasn't the worst thing I've had to watch...
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Even Martin's own comments point out that he has more to reveal about the events of the Purple Wedding.
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This I agree with. He basically says he's leading the reader to that conclusion, but doesn't say whether it's the correct conclusion . . .
 
Deepster said:
Listen. I'm not saying Shae is my favorite on the show....but seeing her in that "sort of role" wasn't the worst thing I've had to watch...
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She certainly has a wide array of talents . . .
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Did not know that. Interesting. For some reason, she doesn't really do it for me. Ygritte, on the other hand, is awesome. If you told me she had done smut, I would be buying every video I could find right this second. Much like with the book, you wonder WTF Jon Snow was thinking. She was ready to run off with him, and he chooses to stay with a bunch of freaks and convicts in the middle of nowhere to fight zombies. Idiot.
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Jon Snow has these funny things going on in his head. They are called values. I guess he is smart enough to know that even if he runs off with his girlfriend, then the rest of his world will still be up the creek.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Littlefinger lies all the time and he never explains why the Tyrells would let him in on their scheme.
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Littlefinger wasn't let in on the scheme. He instigated the scheme when arranging the marriage. He's the reason why Grandma Tyrell thought to ask Sansa about Joffrey as a person---I believe the answer, once coaxed out of a frightened Sansa, was something along the lines of he's a monster---Grandma was looking for confirmation of something she was warned about.
 
.-.
I bet Martin's slow pace on the books has already created some problems for the show's producers, which may explain the meetings with Martin over the last year. The show needs to adapt the book to the small screen, and has made several logical cuts by consolidating characters and cutting out secondary story lines. The producers need to know what Martin's plans are very various characters now before they cut them out, since some of the storylines from the current season already extend into Book 5.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I bet Martin's slow pace on the books has already created some problems for the show's producers, which may explain the meetings with Martin over the last year. The show needs to adapt the book to the small screen, and has made several logical cuts by consolidating characters and cutting out secondary story lines. The producers need to know what Martin's plans are very various characters now before they cut them out, since some of the storylines from the current season already extend into Book 5.
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As a reader of the books I think the TV producers have done a great job adapting the books. The Purple Wedding was done almost exactly the same way in the book. My biggest issue with the adaptation was with The House of The Undying scene in Book/Season 2. They left out so many of Dany's visions that seem to foreshadow so many events. I also wish they would have included the scene where Myra told Bran the story of The Knight of The Laughing Tree. So much can be see from that.
 
O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.
 
I haven't read the books but here's my take.

The one thing that didn't sit right with me is why the drunken knight was there, ready to whisk Sansa off when it all went down. Upon viewing it a 2nd time, Granny Tyrell talks to Sansa, touches the necklace the drunken knight gave her and says "What kind of monster kills a man at a wedding?" Supposedly, that's about Robb Stark, right?

Joff's goblet is in front of Granny Tyrell right before he drinks and starts choking. Once he starts choking, the drunk knight takes Sansa away knowing exactly what happened. Him meeting Sansa with the necklace story was clearly a plant by the Tyrell's. I have to think that Granny poisoned him with the wine or Marjorie did with the cake.
 
Deepster said:
I haven't read the books but here's my take.

The one thing that didn't sit right with me is why the drunken knight was there, ready to whisk Sansa off when it all went down. Upon viewing it a 2nd time, Granny Tyrell talks to Sansa, touches the necklace the drunken knight gave her and says "What kind of monster kills a man at a wedding?" Supposedly, that's about Robb Stark, right?

Joff's goblet is in front of Granny Tyrell right before he drinks and starts choking. Once he starts choking, the drunk knight takes Sansa away knowing exactly what happened. Him meeting Sansa with the necklace story was clearly a plant by the Tyrell's. I have to think that Granny poisoned him with the wine or Marjorie did with the cake.
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Who do you think the drunken knight works for? Who else showed an interest in Sansa in the past? The only way you get Sansa out of court is if Joffrey is dead.
 
businesslawyer said:
O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.
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According to the producers, this scene is edited in such a way that you are supposed to be able to tell. So you have to watch what the director/editor is showing and when. Look for where the cup starts and where it ends up and who put it there. Also, closely watch the exchange between Olenna and Sansa early on.
 
.-.
businesslawyer said:
O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.
Expand ...
Even with help from @ZooCougar I didn't see it until I read this spoiler link. Then you can rewatch and see it clearly. The link gives a little away about what happens next, but it's not too big a deal.
 
jleves said:
Even with help from @ZooCougar I didn't see it until I read this spoiler link. Then you can rewatch and see it clearly. The link gives a little away about what happens next, but it's not too big a deal.
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The television version isn't as clear as the books. I don't think I would have picked up on it unless I already knew and was watching for it. The rest of the conspiracy will be made even more clear, though, tomorrow night.
 
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Last night was a throwaway episode. It didn't move the ball much at all.
 
ZooCougar said:
Last night was a throwaway episode. It didn't move the ball much at all.
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If you want a lot of action, GoT will frequently disappoint. The books and the shows are much more about the characters than they are about action. One of my favorite HBO shows ever was Big Love when Harry Dean Stanton was on the show. I remember seeing an interview with the show's producer that an executive at HBO said him that the network likes shows about families in unusual situations. The Sopranos was ultimately a show about a family, just one in a very unusual situation. Same with Big Love.

GoT is a show about families. The relationships are much more important than the action. Everything happens because a character is responding to some kind of family strain or motivation. Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are constantly rebelling against their father. Theon, Roose Bolton and Jon Snow desperately seek their fathers' approval and it resulted in them making terrible decisions. Robb Stark went to war for his father, although in reality is mother started it. Stark is ultimately murdered for disrespecting Walder Frey's family. Robert's strained relationships with his brothers caused them to first, not be there to protect Robert (Renly abandons the hunt where Robert is killed), and then to turn on each other, resulting in Renly's death when he was the strongest of the 5 kings. The Martell's want revenge for murder of Oberyn and Doran's sister. Danearys experience growing up with the Beggar King completely influences her perspective.

I know you already appreciate this, but this show is not Lord of the Rings with simple battle lines drawn between good and evil, this is much more complicated.

Last night's episode was fine with me.

- Tywin gets the best scenes in the show. His face offs with Arya, the Queen of Thorns, Joffrey and now Oberyn are awesome. He deserves an Emmy a lot more than Emelia Clarke does.

- the show is doing a great job showing just how emotionally broken both Arya and The Hound are.

- Tywin's speech to Tommen was great and wasn't in the books. Tywin is not one for sentimentality, and it doesn't seem like he is even a little upset about what happened. I liked the original Tommen better for the part, but it would get a little creepy on TV unless you made the actor at least an adolescent.

- At least for me, it took me a while into the books and the show to get all that excited about what was going on with the Night's Watch. It is starting to get really interesting.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
If you want a lot of action, GoT will frequently disappoint. The books and the shows are much more about the characters than they are about action. One of my favorite HBO shows ever was Big Love when Harry Dean Stanton was on the show. I remember seeing an interview with the show's producer that an executive at HBO said him that the network likes shows about families in unusual situations. The Sopranos was ultimately a show about a family, just one in a very unusual situation. Same with Big Love.

GoT is a show about families. The relationships are much more important than the action. Everything happens because a character is responding to some kind of family strain or motivation. Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are constantly rebelling against their father. Theon, Roose Bolton and Jon Snow desperately seek their fathers' approval and it resulted in them making terrible decisions. Robb Stark went to war for his father, although in reality is mother started it. Stark is ultimately murdered for disrespecting Walder Frey's family. Robert's strained relationships with his brothers caused them to first, not be there to protect Robert (Renly abandons the hunt where Robert is killed), and then to turn on each other, resulting in Renly's death when he was the strongest of the 5 kings. The Martell's want revenge for murder of Oberyn and Doran's sister. Danearys experience growing up with the Beggar King completely influences her perspective.

I know you already appreciate this, but this show is not Lord of the Rings with simple battle lines drawn between good and evil, this is much more complicated.

Last night's episode was fine with me.

- Tywin gets the best scenes in the show. His face offs with Arya, the Queen of Thorns, Joffrey and now Oberyn are awesome. He deserves an Emmy a lot more than Emelia Clarke does.

- the show is doing a great job showing just how emotionally broken both Arya and The Hound are.

- Tywin's speech to Tommen was great and wasn't in the books. Tywin is not one for sentimentality, and it doesn't seem like he is even a little upset about what happened. I liked the original Tommen better for the part, but it would get a little creepy on TV unless you made the actor at least an adolescent.

- At least for me, it took me a while into the books and the show to get all that excited about what was going on with the Night's Watch. It is starting to get really interesting.
Expand ...

Please. I have seen every episode I know what the show is. Last night was dead space.
 
Rewatching the episode last night, I understand why the scene in the throne room with Joffrey's body is so controversial. I also don't understand why the show went in that direction with Jaime and Cersei.
 
.-.
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