Game of Thrones - Season 4

[businesslawyer]

O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.

 

[Deepster]

I haven't read the books but here's my take.

The one thing that didn't sit right with me is why the drunken knight was there, ready to whisk Sansa off when it all went down. Upon viewing it a 2nd time, Granny Tyrell talks to Sansa, touches the necklace the drunken knight gave her and says "What kind of monster kills a man at a wedding?" Supposedly, that's about Robb Stark, right?

Joff's goblet is in front of Granny Tyrell right before he drinks and starts choking. Once he starts choking, the drunk knight takes Sansa away knowing exactly what happened. Him meeting Sansa with the necklace story was clearly a plant by the Tyrell's. I have to think that Granny poisoned him with the wine or Marjorie did with the cake.

 

[ZooCougar]

I haven't read the books but here's my take.

The one thing that didn't sit right with me is why the drunken knight was there, ready to whisk Sansa off when it all went down. Upon viewing it a 2nd time, Granny Tyrell talks to Sansa, touches the necklace the drunken knight gave her and says "What kind of monster kills a man at a wedding?" Supposedly, that's about Robb Stark, right?

Joff's goblet is in front of Granny Tyrell right before he drinks and starts choking. Once he starts choking, the drunk knight takes Sansa away knowing exactly what happened. Him meeting Sansa with the necklace story was clearly a plant by the Tyrell's. I have to think that Granny poisoned him with the wine or Marjorie did with the cake.

Who do you think the drunken knight works for? Who else showed an interest in Sansa in the past? The only way you get Sansa out of court is if Joffrey is dead.

 

[ZooCougar]

O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.

According to the producers, this scene is edited in such a way that you are supposed to be able to tell. So you have to watch what the director/editor is showing and when. Look for where the cup starts and where it ends up and who put it there. Also, closely watch the exchange between Olenna and Sansa early on.

 

[jleves]

O.K., I've watched the wedding three additional times after reading this thread and can't figure out what you guys are referring to? Someone want to clue me in on what I'm missing in the video? privately if not here?

Thanks.

Even with help from @ZooCougar I didn't see it until I read this spoiler link. Then you can rewatch and see it clearly. The link gives a little away about what happens next, but it's not too big a deal.

 

[Scalito]

Even with help from @ZooCougar I didn't see it until I read this spoiler link. Then you can rewatch and see it clearly. The link gives a little away about what happens next, but it's not too big a deal.

The television version isn't as clear as the books. I don't think I would have picked up on it unless I already knew and was watching for it. The rest of the conspiracy will be made even more clear, though, tomorrow night.

 

[ZooCougar]

Last night was a throwaway episode. It didn't move the ball much at all.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Last night was a throwaway episode. It didn't move the ball much at all.

If you want a lot of action, GoT will frequently disappoint. The books and the shows are much more about the characters than they are about action. One of my favorite HBO shows ever was Big Love when Harry Dean Stanton was on the show. I remember seeing an interview with the show's producer that an executive at HBO said him that the network likes shows about families in unusual situations. The Sopranos was ultimately a show about a family, just one in a very unusual situation. Same with Big Love.

GoT is a show about families. The relationships are much more important than the action. Everything happens because a character is responding to some kind of family strain or motivation. Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are constantly rebelling against their father. Theon, Roose Bolton and Jon Snow desperately seek their fathers' approval and it resulted in them making terrible decisions. Robb Stark went to war for his father, although in reality is mother started it. Stark is ultimately murdered for disrespecting Walder Frey's family. Robert's strained relationships with his brothers caused them to first, not be there to protect Robert (Renly abandons the hunt where Robert is killed), and then to turn on each other, resulting in Renly's death when he was the strongest of the 5 kings. The Martell's want revenge for murder of Oberyn and Doran's sister. Danearys experience growing up with the Beggar King completely influences her perspective.

I know you already appreciate this, but this show is not Lord of the Rings with simple battle lines drawn between good and evil, this is much more complicated.

Last night's episode was fine with me.

- Tywin gets the best scenes in the show. His face offs with Arya, the Queen of Thorns, Joffrey and now Oberyn are awesome. He deserves an Emmy a lot more than Emelia Clarke does.

- the show is doing a great job showing just how emotionally broken both Arya and The Hound are.

- Tywin's speech to Tommen was great and wasn't in the books. Tywin is not one for sentimentality, and it doesn't seem like he is even a little upset about what happened. I liked the original Tommen better for the part, but it would get a little creepy on TV unless you made the actor at least an adolescent.

- At least for me, it took me a while into the books and the show to get all that excited about what was going on with the Night's Watch. It is starting to get really interesting.

 

[ZooCougar]

If you want a lot of action, GoT will frequently disappoint. The books and the shows are much more about the characters than they are about action. One of my favorite HBO shows ever was Big Love when Harry Dean Stanton was on the show. I remember seeing an interview with the show's producer that an executive at HBO said him that the network likes shows about families in unusual situations. The Sopranos was ultimately a show about a family, just one in a very unusual situation. Same with Big Love.

GoT is a show about families. The relationships are much more important than the action. Everything happens because a character is responding to some kind of family strain or motivation. Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are constantly rebelling against their father. Theon, Roose Bolton and Jon Snow desperately seek their fathers' approval and it resulted in them making terrible decisions. Robb Stark went to war for his father, although in reality is mother started it. Stark is ultimately murdered for disrespecting Walder Frey's family. Robert's strained relationships with his brothers caused them to first, not be there to protect Robert (Renly abandons the hunt where Robert is killed), and then to turn on each other, resulting in Renly's death when he was the strongest of the 5 kings. The Martell's want revenge for murder of Oberyn and Doran's sister. Danearys experience growing up with the Beggar King completely influences her perspective.

I know you already appreciate this, but this show is not Lord of the Rings with simple battle lines drawn between good and evil, this is much more complicated.

Last night's episode was fine with me.

- Tywin gets the best scenes in the show. His face offs with Arya, the Queen of Thorns, Joffrey and now Oberyn are awesome. He deserves an Emmy a lot more than Emelia Clarke does.

- the show is doing a great job showing just how emotionally broken both Arya and The Hound are.

- Tywin's speech to Tommen was great and wasn't in the books. Tywin is not one for sentimentality, and it doesn't seem like he is even a little upset about what happened. I liked the original Tommen better for the part, but it would get a little creepy on TV unless you made the actor at least an adolescent.

- At least for me, it took me a while into the books and the show to get all that excited about what was going on with the Night's Watch. It is starting to get really interesting.

Please. I have seen every episode I know what the show is. Last night was dead space.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Rewatching the episode last night, I understand why the scene in the throne room with Joffrey's body is so controversial. I also don't understand why the show went in that direction with Jaime and Cersei.

 

[babysheep]

Yeah because learning that Baelish has gone how deep and has waited how long (all the way back to setting Joffrey and Marjorie up?) to orchestrate Sansa's departure from King's landing, which now further implicates major character Tyrion in the assassination, is just a throw-away detail.

 

[Scalito]

Yeah because learning that Baelish has gone how deep and has waited how long (all the way back to setting Joffrey and Marjorie up?) to orchestrate Sansa's departure from King's landing, which now further implicates major character Tyrion in the assassination, is just a throw-away detail.

I don't think it's likely that Littlefinger orchestrated Joffrey's assassination in order to spring Sansa from King's Landing. He's heavily involved in the Game of Thrones, and likely viewed the opportunity to nab Sansa as a mere bonus. If freeing Sansa was a priority, after all, he could have accomplished it far sooner than he did and spared her from both Joffrey's cruelty and marriage to a whoring Imp twice her age and half her size.

Littlefinger is one of the Game of Thrones' true meastros. Yeah, he has a weakness for Sansa because she's the daughter of Cat Tully. But the weakness is one of lust, not love. He would sacrifice her on the altar of ambition without a moment's regret.

 

[Excalibur]

I don't think it's likely that Littlefinger orchestrated Joffrey's assassination in order to spring Sansa from King's Landing. He's heavily involved in the Game of Thrones, and likely viewed the opportunity to nab Sansa as a mere bonus. If freeing Sansa was a priority, after all, he could have accomplished it far sooner than he did and spared her from both Joffrey's cruelty and marriage to a whoring Imp twice her age and half her size.

Littlefinger is one of the Game of Thrones' true meastros. Yeah, he has a weakness for Sansa because she's the daughter of Cat Tully. But the weakness is one of lust, not love. He would sacrifice her on the altar of ambition without a moment's regret.

Sansa Stark is an important piece in the chess game. It is more likely, I think, that Littlefinger agreed to support the assassination because he could make off with Sansa, and that is has nothing to do with whether he just wants to nail her or has genuine affection.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Actually, Baelish did try to get her out and she didn't want to come

Sansa has been a useful pawn to this point. The Tyrell's wanted to marry her to one of theirs, and then the Lannisters married her to Tyrion, and now Baelish wants to use her for exactly the same reason. If all the male heirs to Winterfell are dead, she is next in line. The north loves the Starks, and no one has much confidence that Roose and his band of misfits will hold onto things in the North for long.

Baelish also has the most to gain from Tyrion's execution, which would explain the set up.

 

[Scalito]

Sansa Stark is an important piece in the chess game. It is more likely, I think, that Littlefinger agreed to support the assassination because he could make off with Sansa, and that is has nothing to do with whether he just wants to nail her or has genuine affection.

I won't venture to guess whether Sansa's more important to Littlefinger because she's Ned Stark's heir or Cat Tully's daughter right now. I think that's open to debate (even Littlefinger thinks with his little head now and then I presume). Either way, I disagree that Sansa was a motivating factor behind Littlefinger's involvement in Joffrey's assassination. I think Littlefinger wanted the Lannister's weakened for his own reasons and would have supported the conspiracy under any circumstances. Sansa was a bonus, only, in that particular plot.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I won't venture to guess whether Sansa's more important to Littlefinger because she's Ned Stark's heir or Cat Tully's daughter right now. I think that's open to debate (even Littlefinger thinks with his little head now and then I presume). Either way, I disagree that Sansa was a motivating factor behind Littlefinger's involvement in Joffrey's assassination. I think Littlefinger wanted the Lannister's weakened for his own reasons and would have supported the conspiracy under any circumstances. Sansa was a bonus, only, in that particular plot.

Agree.

 

[Scalito]

Actually, Baelish did try to get her out and she didn't want to come.

In the HBO series or the books?

 

[Scalito]

Agree.

How often does that happen? We must be right.....

 

[babysheep]

Yeah I'm not saying Baelish necessarily orchestrated the assassination, but that he could have been that deeply involved, and we know he's in with the Tyrelles.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sansa is the presumed heir to Winterfell and the North. The south believes all the Stark boys to be dead. Tywin said this before he married her to Tyrion.

Littlefinger is a climber, said so himself.

 

[babysheep]

But now the Boltons know the boys are still alive, which means the South will find out, right?

 

[August_West]

But now the Boltons know the boys are still alive, which means the South will find out, right?

No, it is in their interests to keep that to themselves.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

In the HBO series or the books?

both

 

[ZooCougar]

Yeah because learning that Baelish has gone how deep and has waited how long (all the way back to setting Joffrey and Marjorie up?) to orchestrate Sansa's departure from King's landing, which now further implicates major character Tyrion in the assassination, is just a throw-away detail.

70% of that episode is fluff. This is why I am not worried about the show outpacing the books. They can have a few episodes with guys talking about why they are bisexual to keep the NYC/True Blood segment of the fanbase happy and trade time for space.

 

[Scalito]

70% of that episode is fluff. This is why I am not worried about the show outpacing the books. They can have a few episodes with guys talking about why they are bis e xual to keep the NYC/True Blood segment of the fanbase happy and trade time for space.

Have you read all of the books yet? I'm afraid that the books themselves become fluffier and fluffier from here on out. Fatso starts to loose control of his series, and indulges in writing about new tangential characters and food. Lots and lots of verbiage about the different types of food the non-essential characters are eating and tasting. Meanwhile, everyone important is wandering or ping-ponging about doing nothing. Sometimes things happen to them, but mostly by accident, kinda like earthquakes or bolts of lightning from the sky.