FSU and Clemson to Big XII?

[metsfan2323]

I personally don't understand the need to trash our new members, I'm glad these schools wanted to join the Big East. The only alternative under UCONN's control, and I emphasize the word control, was to join Conference USA or the MAC. I'm really glad we have a home going forward that isn't named the MAC or CUSA.

In spite of all the gloom and doom being distributed on this board I still think the Big East football product will improve over what it has been the last 8 years with 8 very mediocre teams.

 

[zls44]

The only alternative under UCONN's control, and I emphasize the word control, was to join Conference USA or the MAC. I'm really glad we have a home going forward that isn't named the MAC or CUSA.

We did, and we do.

 

[metsfan2323]

We just became academically prominent recently. Our exposure through sports was a factor that helped catapult our academic status. The campus looks nothing like what it did 20 years ago. The purpose of the Big East seems to have been developing schools and athletic departments, riding the backs of some powerful Catholic schools. We need a tournament involving ND, SMU and BYU. That would be interesting, too.

It's unreal how much UConn has developed over the last 25 years. We were a friggin' agricultural school!

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

 

[Adios]

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

He's the boss. Where you been?

 

[Pudge]

Id like to throw in that, like Fishy, I too know folks high up on the Syracuse food chain. Theyre thrilled, donations are way up, and it's because of the move, NOT the number one ranked team.

Carl is so deep in denial, it's sad. He seems like a genuinely nice chap. Hes just wrong on this. Completely.

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland. They will never get a Stadium once that old mausoleum becomes functionally & physically obsolescent. Swirling down the toilet ... and they have been begging to get away from us for a full 8 years. Congrats. I'm not surprised that they are celebrating & raising more money.

But I live in upstate NY. Their market sucks. BC sucks in the greater Boston market. UConn has potential & we have not had a leader since Lew left that really has driven this ship. The AD hire is most important. Why? Cause I believe this College Sports landscape has not come to any level of stabilization. Fact is ... College Football is really about the SEC with some regional interest in Texas, B1G and Pac 10whatever. The ACC? Not keeping up. Will we get $5m or $14m in the next contract? You & I both know that Fishy gets his information from SU biased media experts. Trade journals full of SU Newhouse people. I believe this new BE sucks ... but I think we need to do something in life than bitch for the next 5 years.

 

[zls44]

Members of the Syracuse BOT, media journals, whats the difference- oh, wait, it's actually huge.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Not a chance in hell that any team leave even the depleted ACC for the Big whatever-you-want-to-call-it. None. Zero.

You are probably right, but it is not impossible. This all comes down to money. How much do you think networks will offer an ACC without FSU and Clemson when their current deal expires?

 

[Drumguy]

Drumguy, think academics. Boise, Houston - good football, Memphis - good bball, but all are below the academic standard of Pitt / Cuse and below what would be our peer institutions academically in the ACC. It may not factor into what the fans of the athletic department wants, but it factors into what Herbst and the trustees are thinking.

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

 

[MattMang23]

For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost.

Haha, Miami? I think you need to do your homework.

 

[Fishy]

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland.

I don't know any Syracuse media types, so spare me.

We just invited Memphis, UCF, San Diego State, Houston and Boise.

We aspire to cultural wasteland and this conference will be a serious drag on the athletic program. Blow smoke up your own ass if you'd like, but this is a bad, bad spot for us.

We're a gold coin that was just flicked into a pile of mid-major s***.

I don't think Boston College has the chops to succeed in the ACC just as they didn't have them to win in the Big East as it was. Syracuse and Pitt might or they might not - one thing is for certain, the sledding will be easier for them than it will be for us.

 

[junglehusky]

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

If there's a snowball's chance in hell that we could get into the Big 10 I'd be delighted and would hope that Herbst would pursue it with zeal. But their intentions are harder to read than a bad translation of Dostoyevsky, so I wouldn't bet on it. I'm sure back in the fall phone lines were being worked hard to Indy, both from Storrs and from Piscataway. I guess travel would be slightly better going to the carolinas versus, say, Wisconsin/Minnesota (central time zone), but the other factor is we probably have more UConn alumni and prospective students in the Atlantic coast than from the upper midwest. Either conference has plenty of what UConn would consider peer institutions.

And as much as people like to disparage Miami and FSU academically they are light years ahead of Boise/Memphis (or for that matter, PC, SHU). FSU actually is a high tier research university, surprisingly enough. Miami's research is bigger than what you might expect from a private university. The UNC / Miami football programs on probation are primarily a sports issue, I'm sure Shalalalala is worried about it affecting undergrad admissions but research mission, not so much.

 

[MattMang23]

People, you need to stop with the "Miami is a bad school" thing. They're the 38th ranked school in the country according to US News & World Report.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-miami-1536

 

[HartbeatHusky]

You are probably right, but it is not impossible. This all comes down to money. How much do you think networks will offer an ACC without FSU and Clemson when their current deal expires?

Their current deal will never expire. That is the real ESPN plan. They will be going to 2026 as is once Pitt and Cuse join. If they invite us and Rutgers I'm guessing they won't hit the open market again until 2030.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Big FFFFing Deal. This is the Same Behavior that we saw from the Big BC clan back in 2003. It has gotten them more money; but, they are in a cultural wasteland. They will never get a Stadium once that old mausoleum becomes functionally & physically obsolescent. Swirling down the toilet ... and they have been begging to get away from us for a full 8 years. Congrats. I'm not surprised that they are celebrating & raising more money.

But I live in upstate NY. Their market sucks. BC sucks in the greater Boston market. UConn has potential & we have not had a leader since Lew left that really has driven this ship. The AD hire is most important. Why? Cause I believe this College Sports landscape has not come to any level of stabilization. Fact is ... College Football is really about the SEC with some regional interest in Texas, B1G and Pac 10whatever. The ACC? Not keeping up. Will we get $5m or $14m in the next contract? You & I both know that Fishy gets his information from SU biased media experts. Trade journals full of SU Newhouse people. I believe this new BE sucks ... but I think we need to do something in life than bitch for the next 5 years.

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

 

[Fishy]

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

Not to get in the middle of that pissing contest, (I prefer the "we own you, nyah, nyah" contests - more fun!), but I don't think the market hurts Syracuse as much as does BC. Boston College is in a great market that literally does not give a duck* that they exist - better to be in a worse market that is actually inclined to your product. (Next person to tell me how great the Orlando market is gets punched in the throat - every TV there is tuned to UF games.)

Let's all be honest here - we're all near the tail end of the expansion games and we were all standing along the same wall a couple of months back while the other conferences beer goggled at us. There are no SEC or Big Ten level programs here.

SU, Pitt and WV got out first - great for them. I hope we follow at some point because this monkey pile of s*** schools is giving me hives.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We became prominent because of sports? Not because "HuskyHawk" attended?

So "HuskyHawks" prestigious degree was built on the backs of academic stalwarts like Chris Smith, Nadav Henefeld, Dan Cyrulic, Cliff Robinson, and Donyell Marshall and not our association with St Johns?

I guess since the Big East became prominent because of Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Patrick Ewing and Pearl Washington, HuskyHawk also owes some of his academic presitge to those guys.

Since I attended at the time of Cliff Robinson...I'll choose otherwise.

I will also choose to believe that the UConn 2000 effort lead to the improved rankings. Hoops helped. Exposure drives applications, and more applications drives selectivity. SAT scores go up.

 

[Waquoit]

I will also choose to believe that the UConn 2000 effort lead to the improved rankings. Hoops helped. Exposure drives applications, and more applications drives selectivity. SAT scores go up.

Hoops didn't "help". Hoops was the the reason UConn 2000 saw the light of day.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Here's the thing, sport.

I actually know the people I'm talking about.

I don't give a rat's a@@ who you say you know, or who you actually know. Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically. The university has seen a constant decline over the past decade. They've gone the route of the backstabbing and secured a guaranteed paycheck for awhile, by selling evrything they've got athletically, to ESPN. That's what's happened.

SU, most definitely was invited to the ACC in 2003, and Virginia Tech and the state government of Virginia blocked it. THe people that were excited then, most certainly are excited now. Doesn't include everyone, pal. And there are plenty of people that are certainly beginning to regret what's happening, well before it's even happened.

you keep on complaining though.

I, on the other hand, prefer to see the positive side of things, and focus on the things that matter, and can be controlled. THe future of the University of Connecticut is quite bright, and most importantly - our future is in our own hands.

Syracuse, and it's success, athletically, is now tied directly to it's only home and home annual partner - Boston College. All of their media rights, - ALL of it, is owned by ESPN for the next quarter century.

 

[upstater]

The Upstate market may "suck" - and the economy has for the longest time - but somehow Syracuse still draws more fans than every other team in America not named "Kentucky" at home, and not named "Duke" on the road. We are hardly BC. If you live in Upstate, you know that.

I agree with Pudge on this. Very little attention is paid to college sports in Albany, Buffalo and Rochester. I see almost none of it everywhere I go. Maybe a little more in Rochester than the other 2. I don't know what Binghamton's like, I never lived there.

I don't think this is a question of selling tickets. Even in Buffalo, you have 50 hockey games a year selling out at VERY HIGH ticket prices on average, not to mention 8 pro football games. These cities can attract fans especially in the heart of winter.

 

[RS9999X]

I don't give a rat's a@@ who you say you know, or who you actually know. Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically. The university has seen a constant decline over the past decade. They've gone the route of the backstabbing and secured a guaranteed paycheck for awhile, by selling evrything they've got athletically, to ESPN. That's what's happened.
.

The university and Syracuse area were in decline in the 70s when I lived there. Football was an embarrassment and basketball was new. Carrier Corp and others were down-sizing and moving production South. Who in their right mind would build that White Elephant? Ahhh...a Governor desperate for re-election. A governor who knew a monstrosity, an obscene gesture of government excess was needed to prove he cared about Central New York as something more than a bunch of wallets to be raped by Albany and New York City. Selling the naming rights? Brilliant! Controversial at the time but UTC/Carrier needed some good press to justify their exodus from Central New York. (The exact same ploy as the UTC/Pratt PR move that built The Rent. Here's a bone, some vacant land, to make you feel better about the jobs we're shipping overseas).

BC has a little different problem. The Carrier Dome funding process, at its heart ,is like the Romans building a colliseum for gladiator matches in the provinces while they rape the local resources and bed the pretty women. Another NY Governor will come along and need those upstate votes again and a place for press opportunities during the State Fair and gladiator matches and Tractor Pulls..

 

[Waquoit]

Who in their right mind would build that White Elephant?

Let's be honest, the buliding has been used too many times over too many years by too many people to be labeled a White Elephant.

 

[gioff23]

Pick this all up from the East Coast?

From someone that actually follows the B12 and lives in B12 territory, the league itself is actually quite fine. It's quieter and more peaceful than it has been in the last 10 years. As much as people want to see the B12 explode, it's not going to. The league weathered a storm that has been brewing since 1996, took some hits, came out the other side.

Thinking that the B12 is going to fall apart is nothing but naive, wishful thinking.

Does that mean you live in Morgantown?
While you may continue to believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, the B12 is on life support (er, Bevo support). The conference stays together as long as either Larry Scott says so or UT starts looking away from its "committed" partners. I am not wishing for it - heck, I wish everything would go back a few years - but I will make you a quiet little bet that the B12's future is as perilous as the Colts in Baltimore were in the mid 70s.

 

[Jericho]

Doesn't matter if the ACC is stuck in a bad deal until the middle of the next decade while the B12 will be on the open market in 3 years.

What bad the deal? The ACC is negotiating a new deal right now. While it does not match the Pac 12/Big 10 deals and is long running, it's not wildly bad either. Why is there optimism in the unknown that the Big 12 is going get a big money deal better than everyone else? You're effectively paying for Texas and OU

 

[RS9999X]

Let's be honest, the buliding has been used too many times over too many years by too many people to be labeled a White Elephant.

Today yes. Before it was built and when it was proposed? A crazy ass idea. In hindsight it's the original "build it and they will come". No one admits opposing the Dome today.

The good old days: Back when Upstate NY was seriously proposing secession and a two-state solution creatively called Upstate and Downstate with Albany given an ultimatum to finally decide between the two.

It's back in play again (and in all bad economies)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_New_York#Upstate_secession

Then there was the 1969 attempt to free NYC from the small, white minds of Upstate NY by Normal Mailer......

 

[Jericho]

I've seen it reported higher but for the sake of argument even if it's $15M now that is the same thing the ACC is going to lock themselves into until 2026 when they finalize with ESPN. The B12 has the potential to make way more money in the near term. When the B12 signs a new contract in 2015 they'll easily be in the ballpark with the P12 and B10.

Maybe so, but $20 million (in the ballpark with the Pac 12/Big 10) is not the same as $35 million (what's supposedly being "promised"). And is the roughly $5 million a year going to be enough to make Clemson move? Color me skeptical...

 

[RS9999X]

As to the original point: The funding for the Carrier Dome, past, present and future, has nothing to do with BC and Conte and anything else Boston. The funding of a new football stadium in Western Mass for UMass? That's a far better analogy for building a huge white elephant in the Springfield area. A Coliseum that says to Western Mass and Springfield: "Boston still cares-- you bankrupt crime-ridden hellhole".

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Maybe so, but $20 million (in the ballpark with the Pac 12/Big 10) is not the same as $35 million (what's supposedly being "promised"). And is the roughly $5 million a year going to be enough to make Clemson move? Color me skeptical...

That's the question. However there can be no doubt that they would make much more over the course of the next decade in the B12 than they can hope to make in the ACC. An extra $5M a year between 2016 and 2026 is an extra $50M per school. That's a whole lot of coin. I think they are in wait and see mode. If the renegotiated deal really is only an extra million or two I think the chances are high that they would explore their options.

 

[Jericho]

I have given that thought and if academics meant anything we'd actually be joining our brethren in the big10, where most of the schools are state universities with big research programs. For all the crowing about how academically superior the ACC is I think FSU, Miami,and several other schools in the ACC are almost as bad as our doormats, maybe not quite as bad but almost. And all the schools on probation compared to the BE well, the ACC is not as perfect a fit as we like to think.

Academics mean a ton to a university president and they sign off on an switch of conferences. Does not matter what the fans or coaches or even AD wants. The President will have to be sold on any move.

The important part of your post is the claim of "joining our brethren in the big10". It would happen in a nanosecond if it was a viable option. The problem is the Big 10 doesn't want UConn (no reason to add UConn). But they'd never consider a West Virginia (due to academics).

And as has been pointed out, Miami is a quite good school. Here's a quick breakdown with rankings using the US News and World Report link posted earlier:

ACC: Duke (10), Virginia (25), Wake Forest (25), North Carolina (29), Boston College (31), Georgia Tech (35), Miami (38), Maryland (55), Pittsburgh (58), Syracuse (62), Clemson (68), Virginia Tech (71), Florida State (101), NC State (101)

Big East: Notre Dame (19), Georgetown (22), UConn (58), Smu (62), Rutgers (68)

Note - I stopped at 101 since the ACC had no schools left

 

[upstater]

Academics mean a ton to a university president and they sign off on an switch of conferences. Does not matter what the fans or coaches or even AD wants. The President will have to be sold on any move.

The important part of your post is the claim of "joining our brethren in the big10". It would happen in a nanosecond if it was a viable option. The problem is the Big 10 doesn't want UConn (no reason to add UConn). But they'd never consider a West Virginia (due to academics).

And as has been pointed out, Miami is a quite good school. Here's a quick breakdown with rankings using the US News and World Report link posted earlier:

ACC: Duke (10), Virginia (25), Wake Forest (25), North Carolina (29), Boston College (31), Georgia Tech (35), Miami (38), Maryland (55), Pittsburgh (58), Syracuse (62), Clemson (68), Virginia Tech (71), Florida State (101), NC State (101)

Big East: Notre Dame (19), Georgetown (22), UConn (58), Smu (62), Rutgers (68)

Note - I stopped at 101 since the ACC had no schools left

Notre Dame is trying to stay in a conference with Memphis, Boise and Houston when it could join the Big 10 whenever it wanted.

That's how much academics mean to university presidents.

 

[zls44]

Syracuse University is not in great shape. Not academically, not financially, and not athletically.

This just isn't true. I don't know any better way to explain it.