From Lou to Eternity: The Monumental Recruiting Topic Drift Thread

[hoophuskee]

The '15-'16 year is when there WILL be issues. Your outline looks similar to mine except with fewer minutes for Chong, but that's an example of what I'm talking about. You CAN jam them in there if you: A) remove Tuck and Williams from the roster, B) give players like Chong and Edwards 10 minutes a piece.


[mod edit; transfer talk; two strikes]

From another post you had made:

She's (Durr) a great talent who normally you'd love to have. What I am saying is that if you get her you're going to have to live with multiple players leaving, and also that the message sent to future recruits MIGHT to problematic

I think a lot of our issues upon the degree of what you mean by “there WILL be issues” and the degree of your meaning for “problematic.” If you have a deep concern I don’t share it. A lesser concern – ok. A few points:

1---- I’ve provided a prior post in which I’ve shown 10 times over the past 10+ years that UCONN has over-recruited vs. another player. So we’ve done it in the past and have maintained incredible success– so I don’t see over-recruiting as a significant issue or much concern over the degree it may be “problematic.” Thus I am not sure if we are disagreeing.

2--- The four newcomers of 2015-2016 season won’t be making any issue of playing time in their first year. You may find one rare example- but any top-tier top-ten recruits that have come, they won’t stir much because they will get come time anyways – maybe one doesn’t get too much- but there will be many blowouts. Anyhow for 15 years plus super player have come to UCONN and in their 1st year haven’t caused any issues or made it problematic.

3--- Last year with Chong and this year’s class- we haven’t gotten a consensus top ten recruit in these classes (due to Gabby's injury I don't count her.) . Looking at history UCONN issued to getting top ten kids nearly every year. With Gabby’s injury and Kia from Canada we’re not sure about that and last year Chong’s ranking was all over the place. I can’t believe the kids in these two classes didn’t expect to possibly be over-recruited when we have shown a history of doing it. Thus I don’t see ti as problematic. These kids had to know it when they 1tscommitte.

4--- But I think they see something special in terms of even if they don’t start – they have a chance to play professional ball which many have the aspiration. Not all recruits will fit well enough that will lead them to play well. Unfortunately not all recruits will be healthy. IMO if Brianna Banks had a healthy soph and jr year, she’d still be on our team. I wouldn’t call this type of issue problematic for the team if they have the bench. For the kid going through all this, I can never know how they feel and it’s terrible. But we do over-recruit.

5--- A point you haven’t brought up; Potential REDSHIRT. It’s irrelevant who. No point throwing out names. You never know who will be great etc.

 

[hoophuskee]

If you look back over the best players in UConn history, really only Ralph and Charles fit under that 25 minute mark, and Shea's lack of minutes had at least something to do with her injury issues/history. Look at the numbers for the rest:

Tarausi: 24, 29, 32, 32

Moore: 30, 31, 28, 33

Lobo: 23, 32, 29, 29

Sales: 22, 27, 27, 27

Bird: 28, 28, 30


It's probably true that quality freshmen in '15 will ease the load a bit, but I still think Stewart and Jefferson will play a ton their senior seasons.

I agree here in terms of 30 minutes we estimated for these two spectacular players in their sr year. You want other players to learn how to play off of them and of course vice-versa.

 

[Paul1969]

There's no such thing as too much ice cream!

 

[meyers7]

This is yet another example. Again, my point about Stewart and Jefferson? Completely ignored. You just sort of build any argument you like and then go after it.

Like talking to a wall.

Your point was that lot's of minutes were given to players this year (specifically Jefferson and Stewart) but your assertion is that it had nothing to do with UCONN's lack of other players to play those minutes (i.e depth). hint hint it did. It's not that hard a concept to get, really. If a team only has 7-8 players, those players are gonna get a lot of minutes.

Back in 2000-2001 when UCONN had lots of players (depth) and lots of good players (i.e. eventual 5 1st team AA's, 9 WNBA players, 2 NPOY's, 5 Olympians), I mean that team had a hell of a lot of talent. Anyway with that many good players minutes went like so:
Bird 27, Abrosimova 24, Cash 23, Ralph 23, Taurasi 23, Williams 19, Jones 19, Johnson 17, Schumacher 16, the rest spread out between Battle, Conlon, Rigby, Czel.

So see, when there are lots of players, there are less minutes per player. When there is no depth, there are more minutes per player. Not rocket science here.

But I'll go along with the strawman. Depth was a terrible, horrible problem this past year, what with the 40-0 record, 35-pt average margin of victory, and one opponent that challenged them (Baylor). If only they had a few more players they might've accomplished something.

How they did this year is irrelevant to the fact that UCONN did not have a lot of depth this year. They could have done very well (40-0) or poorly (39-1) and either way the depth wouldn't change.

These are not hard concepts. Why are you having so much trouble grasping them???

 

[meyers7]

JS - Is there any way to IGNORE an entire thread so it doesn't appear on my screen?

And miss this mess???

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Like talking to a wall.

Your point was that lot's of minutes were given to players this year (specifically Jefferson and Stewart) but your assertion is that it had nothing to do with UCONN's lack of other players to play those minutes (i.e depth). hint hint it did. It's not that hard a concept to get, really. If a team only has 7-8 players, those players are gonna get a lot of minutes

Contrary to what you might think, it was not a necessity to play Stewart or Jefferson 30 minutes a game with the point spreads they had. There were plenty of opportunities to put one or both walk-ons plus three others not named Stewart or Jefferson on the court earlier in many of those games. They weren't losing games with massive leads no matter who was on the court. You can pretend to be intellectually superior 'till the cows come home but it doesn't change any of that.

Would you like to make a wager on the minutes of Stewart and Jefferson for the upcoming season? If Tuck is healthy, UConn will have 10 scholarship players. Seven of them were HS AA's and two others may have been had they qualified. The walk-ons shouldn't have to play. Surely this means a reduction in time for Stewart and Jefferson using your non rocket science logic. Maybe 25 for each? Let's bet on it.

 

[dtbtbtb]

Contrary to what you might think, it was not a necessity to play Stewart or Jefferson 30 minutes a game with the point spreads they had. There were plenty of opportunities to put one or both walk-ons plus three others not named Stewart or Jefferson on the court earlier in many of those games. They weren't losing games with massive leads no matter who was on the court. You can pretend to be intellectually superior 'till the cows come home but it doesn't change any of that.

Would you like to make a wager on the minutes of Stewart and Jefferson for the upcoming season? If Tuck is healthy, UConn will have 10 scholarship players. Seven of them were HS AA's and two others may have been had they qualified. The walk-ons shouldn't have to play. Surely this means a reduction in time for Stewart and Jefferson using your non rocket science logic. Maybe 25 for each? Let's bet on it.

We have only 2 more seasons to enjoy the amazing talents of Stewie and MoJeff in UConn uniforms...we want to see them play 30 min. a game

 

[Tonyc]

Let me make a point. This team is so good that most games will be over in the first half. Geno will sub non starters then. This season we graduate KML and Kiah. Butler will replace Kiah. The following season we graduate Stewart and Mojeff and maybe MT if she doesnt get a red shirt and I think she will. That will free up over two seasons the point and 2/3 wing/forward positions. I dont see a problem with playtime. Really we have terrific players and they will all get minutes. We will get the minutes because we will graduate players and we will blow out many teams in the 1st half . You know if Im a recruit and I read this stuff I would be hesitant to come to UConn for fear of not getting enough minutes. If Im an opposing coach and Im recruiting Asia Durr or somebody else really good, I would make a copy of this thread and give it to her. Then Geno and his coaching staff would have to re recruit her. I dont think they would like that.

 

[Sonny44]

I love ya Tony, but I think you overestimate the importance of our prattle.

 

[Buzzyboy]

They'll lose 4 players between 15-16, either 3+1 or 2+2 depending on whether Tuck gets another year (and what is taking so long with that decision?).

I agree that Williams is a question mark, unfortunately. I have not seen Nurse in a game though, just some highlights. Based on what I've read I think she'll be a good player. Maybe never great but good.

I keep trying to figure out the '15 minutes situation and I just can't, partly because I think KLS and Collier are immediate impact players. Something like:

Stew-30
MoJeff-30
Butler-25-30 (call it 27)
KLS-22
Collier-18
Nurse-20
Ekmark-18
Chong-18
Edwards-10

You suggested that KLS & Collier are impact players and yet you've got Nurse who you praised but also suggested may "never be a great player". That suggested that you thought Nurse was a shade lesser of a ballplayer than the two previously named players and thus I found it odd that you were giving Nurse more minutes than you were Collier. By the way, in a much earlier post, you had an identical amount of minutes (I think, or close to it) posted and I sent a reply that I felt was a little more likely, taking away a few minutes from Stewie, MoJeff, and Butler as well as Chong. With the lineup that we can field, I don't think Geno will have Stewie & MoJeff out there as long as you suggest under normal conditions. In a tight game (Notre Dame, maybe?) I could see them getting those minutes and more, maybe)! In any case, I think my formula would give something like an additional 12 minutes to be distributed to whomever and though the minutes may vary from game to game, I can see the averages work out in my scenario. JMHO.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Buzzyboy,

We'll see. I find it unlikely that Geno will restrict an all-time great like Stewart to 25 minutes as a senior. Or even Jefferson for that matter. He certainly didn't this past season, and depth really isn't a reason. The team had an average MOV of 35. He definitely could've sat those two more but he likes them on the court.

Your reassessment of my scenarios makes for 19 more minutes, but that's w/out Tuck and Williams and w/ Boykin getting just 7. If everyone's healthy it'll be interesting.

I'm sorry and I apologize but I hadn't read your response until this minute and in a post a few moments ago, I commented again, with almost the same type distribution of minutes scenario. I do think it's plausible but it didn't need to be brought up again and I'm sorry! Thanks for your response.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

We have only 2 more seasons to enjoy the amazing talents of Stewie and MoJeff in UConn uniforms...we want to see them play 30 min. a game

I agree wholeheartedly. They're a ton of fun to watch. And Geno likes them on the floor which is why I don't see any way their playing time gets reduced just because the depth of the rosters increases.

I'm sick of the PT subject myself. Sorry I brought it up, in fact. That said there is plenty of talent to soak up the minutes of Stokes, KML, Stewart, and Jefferson once they leave. KLS and Collier will imo be 25-30 minute players pretty quickly, maybe as SOPHs. We shall see about the incoming four.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Geno likes to play good basketball and with 7/8 scholarship players and 2 walk-ons that he was only going to play in the last minute, you had to have 2-3 starters on the floor at all times except the last minute. With only three tall players two of the three would play most of the time - there were a few minutes a game he played all three and few that he played only one. As for wings/guards ... Banks spent about six weeks dealing with a tender ankle and both she and Chong seemed to hit a wall and were not playing very good basketball at the end of the season so the team was down to 6 reliable players with another two players he was only comfortable playing to give wing/guards a breather and two walk-ons he only played in the last minute. Thus a lot of minutes for the starters.
When he had a full roster with solid bench players he trusted he played his 'star' players about 25 minutes a game. That is likely to be the pattern in 2015-16 IF all the recruits and current players turn out as good as everyone here believes they will. And there will likely be a slight bias to upper classmen over freshman.

You are so right about how often this past season UConn only played with six players that Geno really trusted to be on the floor (at least,in the later part of the season) which put an awful burden of minutes on those six. His lack of confidence in Banks and Chong (even when Banks was healthy enough to play) was evident and there was a serious concern as to whether those six would be able to sustain themselves or break down at some point. That's why I'm thrilled with the amount of talented recruits that we have coming in these next two classes. I'm hopeful that the minutes distribution works well enough to keep everyone content "until their time comes" kind of thing. Geno is usually more apt to give the upper class players more minutes, assuming that they've displayed the level of talent and the work ethic that he requires of everyone so if these kids prove themselves, the minutes will work out reasonably well for those it should. At UConn you EARN your minutes and Geno has said that to every kid he's ever recruited or so I've been told.

 

[Godfather]

They'll lose 4 players between 15-16, either 3+1 or 2+2 depending on whether Tuck gets another year (and what is taking so long with that decision?).

I agree that Williams is a question mark, unfortunately. I have not seen Nurse in a game though, just some highlights. Based on what I've read I think she'll be a good player. Maybe never great but good.

I keep trying to figure out the '15 minutes situation and I just can't, partly because I think KLS and Collier are immediate impact players. Something like:

Stew-30
MoJeff-30
Butler-25-30 (call it 27)
KLS-22
Collier-18
Nurse-20
Ekmark-18
Chong-18
Edwards-10

That's 193 which leaves 7 minutes for Boykin, and that lineup doesn't include Tuck or Williams who I took out in a worst-case scenario. And of course Durr isn't factored in either since she's still a hypothetical at this point.

What makes you think KLS and Collier will be impact players and everyone not? they haven't had one uconn practice yet

 

[hoophuskee]

What makes you think KLS and Collier will be impact players and everyone not? they haven't had one uconn practice yet

Depends on the defintion of "impact player." Many of us probably hold a different pov on the defintion.

 

[Godfather]

I was asking SIuconn who made the statement, but you can feel free to give your pov as well

 

[DaddyChoc]

40,000 is very possible

btw UConn is family... Stewie and Jefferson wouldnt be upset if they played only 25mpg this coming season. I think the goal is to win championships not who gets 35 mpg.
with all the transfers, awols, injuries etc. UConn is still the Top Dog

 

[asuwish]

Let me make a point. This team is so good that most games will be over in the first half. Geno will sub non starters then. This season we graduate KML and Kiah. Butler will replace Kiah. The following season we graduate Stewart and Mojeff and maybe MT if she doesnt get a red shirt and I think she will. That will free up over two seasons the point and 2/3 wing/forward positions. I dont see a problem with playtime. Really we have terrific players and they will all get minutes. We will get the minutes because we will graduate players and we will blow out many teams in the 1st half . You know if Im a recruit and I read this stuff I would be hesitant to come to UConn for fear of not getting enough minutes. If Im an opposing coach and Im recruiting Asia Durr or somebody else really good, I would make a copy of this thread and give it to her. Then Geno and his coaching staff would have to re recruit her. I dont think they would like that.

Durr doesn't sit, someone else does! Durr like Maya is the player that separates a contender from the rest. I hear that she is a team player and a great fit for Uconn. With the players we can put around her teams will be unable to double team her and her game will thrive. Durr should play for the coach most likely to prepare her to compete for one of say 5 guard spots on the 2020 Olympic team, and that coach, more than any other is Geno and I think she also knows this.

 

[hoophuskee]

For KLS-
1---- there is some history --- since 1999 - UCONN has gotten seven number 1 ranked players or number 2 ranked. I don't consider Chong number 1 ranked. Five of the seven were impact players. SO if UCONN gets a number 1/2 recruit - 70% of the time we see "impact."

2--- When I read that a player that is 6'3 that is able to shoot in the way she has been described along with from what I read is a tough rebounder, I think that type of combination of size, skill and strength translates very well in the college game. Because of that size and skill - every game she comes out - she is a mismtach. Now I don' expect a/a her frosh year. But these combos I think are a great formula for potential greatness.

3--- The moment I read she is a tough rebounder and with her size, I fully expect if she is tough she'll learn how to punish smaller players inside the way Stewie does (though not as effective inside as Stewie.) . At 6'3 she'll be among the tallest players on the court. So she'll offer versatility at an extreme level. Bigs will have a problem guarding her from three. She'll either shoot over smaller wings or she'll be able to go on different poessessions (the team offense will be more versatile from possession to possession because she can be such a mismatch) and punish the smaller player in the paint. It is probably inevitable that she learns how to punish "the mouse in her house" because of her physcial strength (the tough rebounder as mentioned is a key to show she has significant strength.) .

4--- Her supposed best fundamental strength is shooting from what I've read. She's a physical mismatch on the perimter. She has a/a high school guards surrounding her and will actively look for her to shoot because of her unique combo of size mismatch and efficiency shooting skill. They'll make the game easier for her. Some if not all- though "all" maybe is too strong - the guards some will become "UCONN high quality caliber."

5--- Because of her shooting she opens up the lane making it easier for big players or quick players to have more room to operate in the paint. Because of her efficiency and unique size on the perimeter, her mere presence can open up the lane, even if she is missing.

In summary from what I've seen in the past a player with that size, and with supposed toughness that I read which can lead to being pretty good punishing small players along with FREAKISH 3pt shooting efficiency so she can more easily get off shots as she has all-amercian h/s guards which I expect to evolve at worst a capable level (but really expect more); this forumla tends to lead to an eventual "impact player."

I can speak to NC - if you want. I did see a video of her and another I think was her . .. And ... I slept at a Holiday Inn last night.

Do you agree with any of this?

.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

What makes you think KLS and Collier will be impact players and everyone not? they haven't had one uconn practice yet

It's simply based on what I've seen of them. I've seen quite a bit of Collier and enough of KLS. I could certainly be wrong though. Collier has the basketball IQ to really alter games even without scoring, and I'm not the only one who has noticed this. KLS's early impact may depend more on offense but when you shoot 62% from the floor and 53% from three as a junior, and you can get your shot off faster than any player--male or female--it makes me a believer.

 

[meyers7]

Contrary to what you might think, it was not a necessity to play Stewart or Jefferson 30 minutes a game with the point spreads they had.

Contrary to what you might think, yea, it was. The point spreads didn't have anything to do with it, except "limiting" their minutes. It was necessary (in Geno's mind) due to the shortened bench.

Would you like to make a wager on the minutes of Stewart and Jefferson for the upcoming season? If Tuck is healthy, UConn will have 10 scholarship players. Seven of them were HS AA's and two others may have been had they qualified. The walk-ons shouldn't have to play. Surely this means a reduction in time for Stewart and Jefferson using your non rocket science logic. Maybe 25 for each? Let's bet on it.

Next season has nothing to do with your misunderstanding of last season. And no I don't make silly bets like that where I have no control over anything. (like injuries, practice habits, etc. ) Besides I don't play this silly futures minutes game anyway.

I believe you also have a misunderstanding of walk-on roles.

 

[Godfather]

It's simply based on what I've seen of them. I've seen quite a bit of Collier and enough of KLS. I could certainly be wrong though. Collier has the basketball IQ to really alter games even without scoring, and I'm not the only one who has noticed this. KLS's early impact may depend more on offense but when you shoot 62% from the floor and 53% from three as a junior, and you can get your shot off faster than any player--male or female--it makes me a believer.

They haven't been through one practice yet but that is your opinion I don't think anyone has said "impact players" as freshman, they should be very good players for UConn with every opportunity to rise to top level players, the same can be said of the 2014 class, I'm sure some said the same thing about Stokes who has started to come into her own and will be a "impact players" next season, but came in as a freshman and after her first practice they realized she would need more work to be ready to play at the level Geno demands, some of the 2014 and 2015 class will be in the same situation, we look at YouTube videos and say a kid will be this or that, but have never seen there work ethics all we see are there offensive moves and scoring and maybe a flashy pass to a wide open player but what if that player can't play defense, or understand defensive positioning and has a hard time picking up the Concept of defense trust me it it a major part of why some "top players" don't play as much, when we do evals those are some of the things we look at and that is one of the complaints that we hear from college coaches, now some can go to a bunch of schools and they will play as they try to give them OJT but UConn is not one of them,

 

[ochoopsfan]

For KLS-


In summary from what I've seen in the past a player with that size, and with supposed toughness that I read which can lead to being pretty good punishing small players along with FREAKISH 3pt shooting efficiency so she can more easily get off shots as she has all-amercian h/s guards which I expect to evolve at worst a capable level (but really expect more); this forumla tends to lead to an eventual "impact player."

Do you agree with any of this?

.

She, and her sisters, also have one additional asset. They all shoot over 90% from the FT line. Foul her and you will almost always pay with 2 points, or 3 pts, every time. Bonnie missed one FT this past season and Karlie had an "off season" by missing 4 FT's.

 

[BooRadley]

Ummm, I suppose I should do my BY citizen's duty in reaching 500 & 40,000.... so here goes::

"So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the 18th and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

Carl 'Boo' Spackler

 

[meyers7]

Ummm, I suppose I should do my BY citizen's duty in reaching 500 & 40,000.... so here goes::

"So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the 18th and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

Carl 'Boo' Spackler

It's in the hole.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Contrary to what you might think, yea, it was. The point spreads didn't have anything to do with it, except "limiting" their minutes. It was necessary (in Geno's mind) due to the shortened bench.

Ah, I see. So Geno put them out there; hence, it was necessary. Well that's simplistic and not unexpected.

You're right. There is no way Stewart and Jefferson could've averaged fewer than 30 minutes per game last year with a +34 point differential. Twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven minutes? Not even plausible.

Next season has nothing to do with your misunderstanding of last season. And no I don't make silly bets like that where I have no control over anything. (like injuries, practice habits, etc. ) Besides I don't play this silly futures minutes game anyway.

I believe you also have a misunderstanding of walk-on roles.

What you believe and what is actually the case isn't meshing too well.

 

[chrissaran]

It won't matter what the score is; if you're not practicing the way you should, you're not on the floor for Geno. Just ask Kiah.

 

[FollowerCT]

Because team dynamics and skills change so markedly with the graduation of two players and arrival of four new players (all with a vast range of growth potential) [without Natalie as a player in games], speculation on minutes is premature as there are too many factors to come up with even a close approximation of time on court in games ... experience with team dynamics and skills in the fall season through observation in games will give us a better idea of who will play and when and for how long ...

 

[meyers7]

Ah, I see. So Geno put them out there; hence, it was necessary. Well that's simplistic and not unexpected.

And the truth. I told you this wasn't rocket science, it is pretty simple.

You're right. There is no way Stewart and Jefferson could've averaged fewer than 30 minutes per game last year with a +34 point differential. Twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven minutes? Not even plausible.

Well sure, I suppose is possible (not plausible though). Heck he could have started Lawler and Pulido and let them play 40 minutes each and sat Stewart and Jefferson and they would have gotten 0 minutes. But most of us live in reality, and in reality that's not gonna happen. In reality what's gonna happen is Geno is going to play his better players. And when he has 7-8 better players, they are going to get more minutes each. When he has 10-12 better players, they are going to get less minutes each.

What you believe and what is actually the case isn't meshing too well.

How so?

 

[BooRadley]

I know what some of you are thinking... That this thread is too long... that it has out-lived its usefulness... that it is time for it to be over.... BUT, here's what I say to that!!!!

What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Senator John 'Booluto' Blutarsky