From Lou to Eternity: The Monumental Recruiting Topic Drift Thread

[intlzncster]

The message is UConn recruits the best players it can.

In recent years it arguably cast too narrow a net. Now the worst that can be concluded is that it widened its net slightly (maybe; that's not as clear to me as natural recruiting cycles).

And then, for a variety of excellent reasons, the past few years exceeded even the usual lofty UConn expectations.

If that disappoints any player or players who expected to be more prominent based on less internal competition, it's unfortunate.

Absolutely spot on with the bold point. I was disappointed how few girls we were recruiting at one point a few years ago. And it's not that there weren't any that could have played at UCONN. I think the staff got a little skittish after our mid 2000's recruiting scuffle and misfires.

The fact remains, every single team in the country wants to have the 'problem' of too much talent. Let the girls battle it out and have the cream rise to the top. That's what people come to UCONN for anyway!

Who cares if people want to transfer. It's going to happen no matter what you do. There's a philosophy in drafting players for professional leagues (specifically with regards to the NFL) where you take the top rated player on your board no matter what your need is. This makes total sense, as why would you accept an inferior player just to fill a need. You wind up getting worse on average over time in this fashion.

You never know what can happen at positions you already filled (injury/change minds/etc). I feel like this dovetails with recruiting as well.

 

[dtbtbtb]

Della Donne's reasons for transferring were unusual and a completely different situation. Many of those others listed had injury issues or, quite honestly, were just not all that good by UConn standards. It's one thing for the 150th talent in a class to get limited minutes. It's another to ask several top-20 players to sit for the majority of their four years because you brought in top five players immediately afterwards despite having more than enough to win.

Does anyone think even three of the four incoming freshmen come to UConn if Durr had verballed to the school before them?

You make some good points and your comments are thought provoking.
What is Geno supposed to do? Stop recruiting for 2 years because we have (on paper) so many great players? If those players want to make it to the WNBA or play professionally, fighting for a position or minutes will be a regular thing and going through the UConn system will be great preparation for them. I do hope the Durr wants to come UConn and that Geno takes her as she is a real special player from all we heard. Will we be the best team for the next few years without her? Probably. Will we have a team for the ages with her? Most probably. Will we be the favorites for NC for the next 4 seasons (starting with the 2015/16 season) with her and all the other amazing players we have? For sure!

 

[UConnChapette]

You act as though UConn can accept everyone who wants to come. At some point it's too much. Let's say Gorecki had verballed, then Durr and Ogunbowale were to do the same. Are you okay with a full 15-player roster in which at least five players would have to transfer? I guess you're saying that will all work itself out. If I'm a future recruit and I think UConn will just bring in better talent over me despite a loaded roster, I'd have second thoughts about coming.

To borrow a line from True Grit - "I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough."

Gorecki did not verbal, so we will never know what impact that might have had. Durr and Ogunbowale might...or they might not. When, or even if, that happens, I'll spend some time debating this issue. In the mean time...carry on.

 

[rvwsleep]

Della Donne's reasons for transferring were unusual and a completely different situation. Many of those others listed had injury issues or, quite honestly, were just not all that good by UConn standards. It's one thing for the 150th talent in a class to get limited minutes. It's another to ask several top-20 players to sit for the majority of their four years because you brought in top five players immediately afterwards despite having more than enough to win.

Does anyone think even three of the four incoming freshmen come to UConn if Durr had verballed to the school before them?

Maybe 3 of the 4 would not have signed their letters if they knew that Durr was coming the next year. Maybe. But the fact is they don't have a crystal ball and they can't possibly know which players will be recruited and accept offers one or two years down the line. They have to make their choices based on academics, basketball program, head coach etc., just like every other recruit does. I'm sure all of us would make different decisions in our lives if we knew what was going to happen in the future. But we don't. We try to make the best decision based on the information available to us at the time we have to make the decision. Maybe there will be transfers if Durr verbals to UConn. Maybe not. This year's class has one recruit recovering from major knee surgery. Tuck has had major knee surgery. Can you ensure Geno that those two will be fully recovered ? Or how certain is it that all 4 freshman this year, even if healthy, will be impact players ? And exactly when should Geno withdraw offers so he doesn't have too many good players ?
Unfortunately, recruiting is an inexact science. Some years recruits will be knocking down your door and the next year avoid you like the plague. Geno ( like almost every other coach) offers more scholarships than there are spots to fill on the roster. Will we potentially have a lot of great players in the 2015-16 season ? Yes, but the market usually finds it's own equilibrium.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think this is a rather callous attitude. I'm not specifically saying anything about Durr.

BUT if a team keeps bringing in the new and tossing out the old, and building a reputation for doing that, it will hurt us in the future. And yes, not playing a hard working talented kid who came in hoping to play and improve the team is tantamount to "tossing them out", at least it could be in their minds and in the minds of future prospects.

I worked for a company which yearly grossly over-hired PhDs and tossed out the losers when the next crop came in. It didn't work that well, especially from a company culture standpoint.

If you had stocks in a company that had a lot of capable people in management and was doing okay but were aware of the availability of someone who was extraordinary who could guarantee the company earnings would escalate dramatically for the appreciable future and ownership decided against it so as not to hurt the feelings of his capable employees, how would you feel??? I understand loyalty and appreciate it but you aren't replacing anyone at all. What you are doing is trying to improve the team and if in doing that, other players start getting less minutes because they aren't as capable or hard working, that's just the way it is. Maybe you're someone who thinks that every little leaguer should get exactly the same amount of minutes and everyone who plays should get a medal or a trophy but sometimes it may actually be a bad idea. Competition is really one of the things that brings out the best in most everyone and if you aren't pushed, you may never achieve that of which you are capable of. JMO!

 

[UCONNfan1]

Della Donne's reasons for transferring were unusual and a completely different situation. Many of those others listed had injury issues or, quite honestly, were just not all that good by UConn standards. It's one thing for the 150th talent in a class to get limited minutes. It's another to ask several top-20 players to sit for the majority of their four years because you brought in top five players immediately afterwards despite having more than enough to win.

Does anyone think even three of the four incoming freshmen come to UConn if Durr had verballed to the school before them?

To answer your last question, possibly not. But it seems to me that Geno is one of the most honest coaches in all of WCBB, sometimes brutally so (anyone remember "Willnett Crockett is not currently a part of the Uconn basketball team"? He made that comment based on her lackadaisical practice habits over a stretch of time. Anyway I think it was Willnett. Apologies if it was another player). I honestly think he's brutally honest with recruits - come to Uconn and the only thing I guarantee you is the chance to be coached by the best, play with the best, compete for NC's, and EARN your playing time on the court.

Someone also astutely pointed out that Uconn had recently cast too short a net. Going back about 10 years or so, Uconn's policy was to not recruit a kid till their junior year. That worked fine till right around the time Uconn got Ann Strother and her class. The following year (I think) he landed Sherwood, Wright and Robinson. IIRC, none of those kids were his top choices, but he missed out on the better players because he simply started recruiting them too late. So what did he do? Started recruiting kids in their sophomore years, or earlier.

Fast forward 5-10 years. Now Uconn recruits the kids earlier, but they still cast a very narrow net. That resulted in single player classes of Kelly and Saniya. Also, the fact that Delle Donne had been committed to Uconn for so long before she finally left, Uconn simply didn't recruit any other players. They had a shot at Sykes (maybe dodged a bullet there), but with so narrow a net, they didn't have a replacement player for her.

Fast forward to 2013-2014. Transfers of Walker, Johnson and England. Injuries to Morgan and KML meant we were down to literally 7 players. KML came back but Chong and Banks were not effective so we were down to a roster of 6. Way too few players and the result of too narrow a net.

So yet again, Geno changes with the times. He starts going after more kids, and earlier as well. Lands a class of 4 in 2014. Would have been 5 if Wilson came. Now has a class of 3 in 2015, and will be 4 if Durr comes. Best problem to have - more than enough talented kids.

Side note not mentioned - these kids all have tried out for something that they've probably not made. Many of these kids tried out for USA national teams of some sort - U16, U17, etc etc. They choose the best kids. Some even pay their own way. The kids not chosen are cut. However, no one is cut from Uconn. Geno doesn't fire the kids. BUT he will play the best players who work the hardest. If that's not nice enough for someone, then they should never verbal to Uconn in the first place...

 

[Buzzyboy]

You act as though UConn can accept everyone who wants to come. At some point it's too much. Let's say Gorecki had verballed, then Durr and Ogunbowale were to do the same. Are you okay with a full 15-player roster in which at least five players would have to transfer? I guess you're saying that will all work itself out. If I'm a future recruit and I think UConn will just bring in better talent over me despite a loaded roster, I'd have second thoughts about coming.

What I think is that based on what's been written about her, Durr is a special player. That suggests that you may not see someone of her caliber at her position AGAIN for a number of years. Could you turn your back on someone of that ability because you have a number of kids coming in who you feel have good skills and work ethic? As has been mentioned, recruiting is an inexact science and players come in who just don't live up to theirs and your expectation. Someone not too long ago listed some of the most highly rated kids (meaning top 10) over the last ten years and it amazed me how many were "duds" in that they fell far short of the expectations of their high school ratings. The number one rated kid in last years class played at Tennessee this year and didn't do much at all. She underperformed and though she may eventually be the player that recruiting services saw, there are absolutely no guarantees that she will. It happens and it happens much more frequently in players that are ranked 15 through 30 in the ratings. To presume that all our recruits coming in this fall are going to be highly successful is a little presumptuous. We can hope but we've had top 25 players transfer because they came in and didn't have the level of success to earn a lot of playing time. To not recruit Durr seems to me to be a mistake but I'll leave that in Geno's court to decide what to do if she decides she wants to play at UConn.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

To borrow a line from True Grit - "I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough."

Gorecki did not verbal, so we will never know what impact that might have had. Durr and Ogunbowale might...or they might not. When, or even if, that happens, I'll spend some time debating this issue. In the mean time...carry on.

Why can't we talk of hypotheticals? Durr coming is a hypothetical and we're talking about how the roster and playing time would break down with her on it since she's apparently still on UConn's radar.

Gorecki specifically isn't the issue. I'm using her as an example to ask the question of what you do if UConn used all available scholarships.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

- come to Uconn and the only thing I guarantee you is the chance to be coached by the best, play with the best, compete for NC's, and EARN your playing time on the court.

I agree, but there are only so many minutes to earn. Have you tried breaking down the minutes for 2015? You're going to need a shoehorn to wedge them all in. Just because you earn minutes doesn't mean time will be available with that type of roster. Unless some of these players turn out to be significantly worse than they're labeled to be.

 

[UConnChapette]

Why can't we talk of hypotheticals? Durr coming is a hypothetical and we're talking about how the roster and playing time would break down with her on it since she's apparently still on UConn's radar.

Gorecki specifically isn't the issue. I'm using her as an example to ask the question of what you do if UConn used all available scholarships.

Relax, Francis. I was speaking for myself...I did not say "We (or even you) cannot talk of hypotheticals" I quoted "I do not entertain hypotheticals". I stated "when, or even if, that happens I will spend time debating the issue". I even encouraged everyone to "carry on". Jeepers...I was expressing an opinion from my own point of view. If you thought I was implying that you or anyone else should not entertain hypotheticals, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Relax, Francis. I was speaking for myself...I did not say "We (or even you) cannot talk of hypotheticals" I quoted "I do not entertain hypotheticals". I stated "when, or even if, that happens I will spend time debating the issue". I even encouraged everyone to "carry on". Jeepers...I was expressing an opinion from my own point of view. If you thought I was implying that you or anyone else should not entertain hypotheticals, I don't know what to tell you.

Okay. Not sure why you needed to say you're not interested in debating the subject. Not posting would've made the same point.

 

[UConnChapette]

Okay. Not sure why you needed to say you're not interested in debating the subject. Not posting would've made the same point.

Well, technically no it wouldn't have. If I stayed silent, how would you know I even had a point of view?

Relax, I'm just playing with you now.

 

[Shenandoah]

Who is this Samuelson I keep hearing so much about? Is she any good?

Didn't he play for the Whalers? Pretty good defenseman as I recall...

 

[MilfordHusky]

Who is this Samuelson I keep hearing so much about? Is she any good?

Paul A. Samuelson. His doctoral dissertation became a classic grad level reference in Econ. His undergrad text was legendary. First American Nobel Laureate in his field. As smart as anyone. He'd be a certain Gampel Wall of Honor selection.

 

[UConnChapette]

Who is this Samuelson I keep hearing so much about? Is she any good?

Joan Benoit Samuelson? I hear she is very well conditioned and can run up and down the court for HOURS!

 

[MilfordHusky]

Joan Benoit Samuelson? I hear she is very well conditioned and can run up and down the court for HOURS!

Yep, Joan can run 3 hours or so without stopping. I'm not sure if her cap fits the team dress code, though.

Joan would make Moriah look tall.

 

[Zorro]

Paul A. Samuelson. His doctoral dissertation became a classic grad level reference in Econ. His undergrad text was legendary. First American Nobel Laureate in his field. As smart as anyone. He'd be a certain Gampel Wall of Honor selection.

Yeah. Ol Paul's dissertation was "only 24 pages long, but they were damned good pages!"

 

[DaddyChoc]

this is a record shattering thread...

 

[ABachelor6CR]

Hold the phone. I haven't seen anything official but Mike is one of those people who tend to know. So take this for what it is worth....Skip to the Katie Lou my darling...

Mike Flynn
@UconnWBB gets huge commit fr phenom @33katielou prior to @USAB #u17trials this wknd. @BlueStarMedia1 @espnW @womhoopsguru @klhoops @TDNike

This makes me happy.

I like to think Husky Bill has something to do with all these great gets.....

 

[Zorro]

Bump.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Bump.

all you had to do was "view" it... but bumping makes us even more curious of the new comment about KLS

 

[meyers7]

Della Donne's reasons for transferring were unusual and a completely different situation. Many of those others listed had injury issues or, quite honestly, were just not all that good by UConn standards.

You said None of those situations would be like this one, you were wrong. I separated them out for you and explained it so you could see.

 

[meyers7]

You act as though UConn can accept everyone who wants to come.

Not at all. UCONN doesn't even hand out that many scholarship offers. But you don't turn down Durr if she wants to come. Maybe you don't realize how good she is.

At some point it's too much.

Not until you get to 16. And even then (see below)

Let's say Gorecki had verballed, then Durr and Ogunbowale were to do the same. Are you okay with a full 15-player roster in which at least five players would have to transfer?

I'm content with a 15 player roster. And NO, they DON'T have to transfer out. They may if they decide to, but they don't HAVE to. Sauer and Hansmeyer didn't. They got recruited over. Banks did. That's fine, that's their decision for their life/career.

And when was the last time we had a 15 player roster??? Way back in 2000-2001 we had 16 players. But by the end of the year we had Ralph, Abrosimova, Walters, Battle all out from injury and JMoore r/s.

In 98-99 we had 16 players also (would have had 17 but Clark xfr out), but had Rigby r/s, Ralph, Bird and Walters injured.

So yea, to answer you next question......it does always work out.

I guess you're saying that will all work itself out.

It always does. Injuries, transfers, small recruiting classes. We haven't had TOO many players in a long time (if ever).

If I'm a future recruit and I think UConn will just bring in better talent over me despite a loaded roster, I'd have second thoughts about coming.

If you are a future recruit afraid of competition or not confident in your abilities, UCONN is probably not gonna be recruiting you.

And if some recruit decides not to come here because Durr is here.......Durr is here....we win. Sure some recruits may not have looked at UCONN (or UCONN may not have been looking) because Stewart is here.....but we got Stewart....we win.

 

[xHunt3r]

..... so we were down to a roster of 6. Way too few players and the result of too narrow a net....

Undefeated season and a 9th nation championship(2nd in a row)... looks to me like things worked out just fine with this "narrow net" approach.

 

[intlzncster]

Undefeated season and a 9th nation championship(2nd in a row)... looks to me like things worked out just fine with this "narrow net" approach.

Sure, it worked out last year. Law of averages says it usually won't. Certainly did not work out in 2001.