For the first time, I believe we may actually be screwed in the long run of conference realignment | Page 3 | The Boneyard

For the first time, I believe we may actually be screwed in the long run of conference realignment

Notre Dame will never join a conference because that's what makes, and keeps, then Notre Dame. Being in a conference year in and year out they'd be exposed. Imagine finishing outside the top 3 in the ACC the last few years as they would have with the teams they have fielded. Each year's mediocrity will build on to the next, making ND look bad if it can't even win the 3rd best league.

Being independent allows ND to feel special and act special while getting a clean slate every year. Being independent means there's no pesky conference rankings to remember and bring up each year.
 
Seriously, I applaud anyone on here who really still cares. The writing is on the wall............for UConn, for ESPN, for college athletics. It sucks being the first to this party, but it won't end well for anyone involved.
 
whaler11 said:
Sorry I should have said Notre Dame's problem isn't going to be revenue going forward. That was Upstaters point.
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Notre Dame will think it's a problem when they find themselves not even a top-20 program in revenue after having always been top-5 since the age of television. It doesn't matter if it's actually a 'problem.' They're not going to be OK with not being a top-20 program in generating revenue. Ego is a large part of who they are. They won't let themselves start to fall behind in money. And that will happen if they don't join a league. This isn't 1990. They won't continue to live off weak OTA ratings while the conferences continue to get richer.
 
TerryD said:
This discussion is taking too much of this thread, and I am certain the wrath of other posters is coming my way. :)

At the risk of a final post, here is a link to the Rivals team recruiting rankings over the years. ND always recruits pretty well.

https://n com/team_rankings/2017

(Looks like its behind a paywall, sorry. ND is currently # 6 this class, was #14 last year, was #11 the year before that, #11 the year before that and was #3 in 2013--coming off the 2012 12-0 regular season).
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don't pay too much attention to the rating services - they just look for the biggest clicks/subscription drivers.
 
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kyleslamb said:
Notre Dame will think it's a problem when they find themselves not even a top-20 program in revenue after having always been top-5 since the age of television. It doesn't matter if it's actually a 'problem.' They're not going to be OK with not being a top-20 program in generating revenue. Ego is a large part of who they are. They won't let themselves start to fall behind in money. And that will happen if they don't join a league. This isn't 1990. They won't continue to live off weak OTA ratings while the conferences continue to get richer.
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But they could make one call and join the ACC so if they thought revenue was an issue...

The Big Ten just made a deal going back towards OTA...

I really think they care more about independence than $10-20 million a year. Maybe a half decade of losing like this season would change their mind - but as long as they are good I don't see them changing course.
 
whaler11 said:
The Big Ten just made a deal going back towards OTA...
.
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Notre Dame will have to continue to play when most other teams aren't if they want to maximize OTA revenue. And as a general rule, it really helps to win in prime time.
 
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Seaa Blue said:
Notre Dame will have to continue to play when most other teams aren't if they want to maximize OTA revenue. And as a general rule, it really helps to win in prime time.
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Sure we can talk about the future - but they can still schedule games like next Saturday in Jacksonville which is on CBS.

They can show up in any stadium around the country and it's still a huge deal...
 
BUConn10 said:
Notre Dame will never join a conference because that's what makes, and keeps, then Notre Dame. Being in a conference year in and year out they'd be exposed. Imagine finishing outside the top 3 in the ACC the last few years as they would have with the teams they have fielded. Each year's mediocrity will build on to the next, making ND look bad if it can't even win the 3rd best league.

Being independent allows ND to feel special and act special while getting a clean slate every year. Being independent means there's no pesky conference rankings to remember and bring up each year.
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Isn't ND in the ACC? I didn't think you can call yourself independent while being a member of a conference. Aren't those two things mutually exclusive?
 
HoopsFan21 said:
Isn't ND in the ACC? I didn't think you can call yourself independent while being a member of a conference. Aren't those two things mutually exclusive?
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Football isn't in any conference. So, no.
 
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TerryD said:
Football isn't in any conference. So, no.
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I think your definition of independence is different than everyone else's. ND is contractually obligated to play a certain number (half?) of games against ACC teams. When you are forced to play a large number of your games against teams from a single conference you are effectively part of that conference if not officially. Some may prefer to do mental gymnastics to keep on believing in independence, but we all eventually grow up and figure out that a man in a red suit isn't squeezing down millions of chimneys in one night to deliver presents under a decorated pine tree. Besides that, the other 20 ND sports are all full members of the ACC, so even if football was absolutely independent, ND still cannot realistically call themselves independent when 95% of their sports are full members of a conference and are forced to operate under the ACC's rules and regulations. Operating under someone else's rules and regulations is not my idea of independence.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
I think your definition of independence is different than everyone else's. ND is contractually obligated to play a certain number (half?) of games against ACC teams. When you are forced to play a large number of your games against teams from a single conference you are effectively part of that conference if not officially. Some may prefer to do mental gymnastics to keep on believing in independence, but we all eventually grow up and figure out that a man in a red suit isn't squeezing down millions of chimneys in one night to deliver presents under a decorated pine tree. Besides that, the other 20 ND sports are all full members of the ACC, so even if football was absolutely independent, ND still cannot realistically call themselves independent when 95% of their sports are full members of a conference and are forced to operate under the ACC's rules and regulations. Operating under someone else's rules and regulations is not my idea of independence.
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ND football is not part of the ACC, officially or unofficially. So, ND football is independent. This is nothing new since ND's other sports were in the Big East since 1995.

Nobody in the Big East thought ND football was part of that conference. Nobody in the ACC (or in South Bend) think that ND football is part of the ACC.

It is only ND's opinions and stances on this issue that really matter, since they are the ones who decide their status.

P.S. I haven't believed in mythical creatures like Santa, the Easter Bunny or any deity since I was about seven, but nice try on the chimney jibe.
 
TerryD said:
\
It is only ND's opinions and stances on this issue that really matter, since they are the ones who decide their status..
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Call me crazy, but in some cultures, what everyone else thinks > what your clan thinks.

And in other cultures it's really quite rude to make you and yours the center of the universe.

Not true on web discussion forums of course, but in some places...
 
Seaa Blue said:
Call me crazy, but in some cultures, what everyone else thinks > what your clan thinks.

And in other cultures it's really quite rude to make you and yours the center of the universe.

Not true on web discussion forums of course, but in some places...
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My point is that only ND officials will decide the status of ND football, not opposing fans.

It is only what they think that really counts, not others. It is called self determination.

It isn't up to a popular vote of other fans. They are really irrelevant to that issue.

P.S. What division of the ACC is ND football currently allocated to, the Atlantic or the Coastal?
 
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It will soon be 30 years since Notre Dame won a national championship in football....those halycon top dog days are receding into the past with each passing season and will continue to recede as we move forward.

As long as those who make the decisions at the Golden Dome are content with being very good, but not winning the championship, they will remain independent.

The Irish, I think, will not sniff a playoff unless they are undefeated and a couple of conference champs have two losses.
 
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TerryD said:
My point is that only ND officials will decide the status of ND football, not opposing fans.

It is only what they think that really counts, not others. It is called self determination.

It isn't up to a popular vote of other fans. They are really irrelevant to that issue.

P.S. What division of the ACC is ND football currently allocated to, the Atlantic or the Coastal?
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If ND officials say the moon is made of cheese do you believe them? Like I said, 95% of your student-athletes wear an ACC logo on their uniforms, including the most visibly successful program, the WCBB team, and must follow ACC rules. Even your independent football team is FORCED to play an, albeit abbreviated, ACC conference schedule. How can you continue to believe ND is independent when they aren't even allowed to choose their opponents? Sounds like someone else is calling the shots there. I guess it all comes down to having your own TV contract and having to play Wake Forest only every three years? Also, how can you be an ND grad and claim you don't believe in any deity? Your school's raison d'etre is rooted in deities.
 
@HoopsFan21 Notre Dame gave the ACC all of its sports except the one it wants, football. Why do this? To become the natural landing zone if/when football decides to call home. Until then, ND football gets to showcase their overrated team 5x a season to the ACC; in part to emphasize to them how much the ACC needs their television ratings..
You can say they are affiliated all you want but dont make the mistake in assuming whos holding the cards here. The ACC has no leverage as to when, if, or where Notre Dame eventually locates football or any of their olympic sports.
 
CAST-BONE said:
The ACC has no leverage as to when, if, or where Notre Dame eventually locates football or any of their olympic sports.
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Not quite true. There's a few contracts that limits Notre Dame's options for the next 20 years or so.
 
So two pages of talk about Notre Dame in a thread about UConn being screwed. Notre Dame will be fine, whatever they choose to do. They will never again have the cache or brand power they did 20-30 years ago, whatever they choose to do.

As for UConn, we are at the mercy of others unfortunately. Football and football attendance has to improve. I do think hockey moving in the right direction is helpful in the eyes of the Big 10, but they aren't doing anything soon.
 
UConn Provost Mun Y. Choi to be named president of the University of Missouri. Can one mean one thing: UConn to the SEC!!​

Seriously, I have been watching from a distance and lurking on this board. I hope for he best for you guys, but the scenarios seem very difficult. I just wonder, as others have, if the Big East had seen more clearly the future importance of football, how different UConn's situation and the so-called P5 alignment would have been today.
 
whaler11 said:
Sorry I should have said Notre Dame's problem isn't going to be revenue going forward. That was Upstaters point.
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So what do think it will be? Access to the playoffs?
 
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Western PA said:
I just wonder, as others have, if the Big East had seen more clearly the future importance of football, how different UConn's situation and the so-called P5 alignment would have been today.​
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Depends how you look at it:

--If the Big East had decided to focus on football in the 80s/90s, then UConn would currently be in the Atlantic 10 with Villanova/Georgetown/Providence and playing FCS football. In this alternate world, Penn St and Florida State would currently be in the Big East and it would be THE East Coast power conference (and rival the B1G/SEC for conference supremacy and $).

--If the Big East had decided to focus on football in the 00s, then UConn would currently be in the Big East with FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, etc. Essentially, UConn would be in what is currently called the ACC, but it would instead be called the Big East. It would basically be the current ACC, minus Notre Dame and Wake Forest, but including Maryland, Rutgers, and UConn.

--And yet another way to look at it is--if UConn had more clearly seen the future importance of football in the early 80's instead of the late 90's, then UConn would currently either be in the B1G or the ACC.



Lot's of would've/could've s for UConn in conference realignment. Wrong place, wrong time.

But I am also 30 pounds lighter with a full head of hair and am in early retirement in this alternative universe as well. ;)​
 
Early 1990s an all sports conference (similar to what Paterno proposed) forms with Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers, Boston College, Temple and Virginia Tech.
A few years later, UConn steps up football and joins. Perhaps Maryland and/or UVA are enticed. Would the independent Florida State have been interested? If so, the response to further conference realaignment could have been UCF and South Florida.

I know. I know. If my aunt had a ...
 
kyleslamb said:
Notre Dame will think it's a problem when they find themselves not even a top-20 program in revenue after having always been top-5 since the age of television. It doesn't matter if it's actually a 'problem.' They're not going to be OK with not being a top-20 program in generating revenue. Ego is a large part of who they are. They won't let themselves start to fall behind in money. And that will happen if they don't join a league. This isn't 1990. They won't continue to live off weak OTA ratings while the conferences continue to get richer.
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I respect your opinion but for a school like ND whose media deal is just a small piece of the pie.,Conference membership carries with it the risk of diminishing the bigger revenue stream. When you join a conference unless you dominate it your just one if the guys.
As much as I love to hate on ND if we could ever get them to play UConn here.
They would either have to move out of state or the ticket prices at the Rent would be through the roof . I can't think of anyone even comparable.
Not Ohio Stste or Alabama.
I never was an ND fan but it's silly to deny their mystique and Independence contributes to that mythology.
 
AZHuskiePop said:
I respect your opinion but for a school like ND whose media deal is just a small piece of the pie.,Conference membership carries with it the risk of diminishing the bigger revenue stream. When you join a conference unless you dominate it your just one if the guys.
As much as I love to hate on ND if we could ever get them to play UConn here.
They would either have to move out of state or the ticket prices at the Rent would be through the roof . I can't think of anyone even comparable.
Not Ohio Stste or Alabama.
I never was an ND fan but it's silly to deny their mystique and Independence contributes to that mythology.
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Know how successful businesses go under? Relying on doing things the same way just because it used to always work.

Acting like Notre Dame will always be elite just because of their mystique is the quickest way to become irrelevant. Brand names cease to be brand names after a new generation of people have failed to see continual success. You can't act like a $15 million tv deal is going to continue to cut it when some conferences will be bringing in $35-45 million a year. You can choose to think mystique will continue to cut it. Me? I prefer to be realistic and see the trend of where the money is going.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
I think your definition of independence is different than everyone else's. ND is contractually obligated to play a certain number (half?) of games against ACC teams. When you are forced to play a large number of your games against teams from a single conference you are effectively part of that conference if not officially. Some may prefer to do mental gymnastics to keep on believing in independence, but we all eventually grow up and figure out that a man in a red suit isn't squeezing down millions of chimneys in one night to deliver presents under a decorated pine tree. Besides that, the other 20 ND sports are all full members of the ACC, so even if football was absolutely independent, ND still cannot realistically call themselves independent when 95% of their sports are full members of a conference and are forced to operate under the ACC's rules and regulations. Operating under someone else's rules and regulations is not my idea of independence.
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Whoa, I don't know about the man in the red suit, but Santa is able to do it....I still believe!
 
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