For the first time, I believe we may actually be screwed in the long run of conference realignment

[upstater]

I don't fear such a thing, at all, sorry. That is not something that ND fans really are worried about. People have been predicting NBC would drop ND for about fifteen or more years. NBC renewed every time the deal was close to ending and doubled the deal's time frame in 2015.

ND fans are pissed a Kelly for this season but he won 12, 9, 8 and 10 games the four seasons before this one. ND is likely much closer to returning to 9-10 wins than likely having 3-9 seasons beyond this year.

I know people want ND football to join a conference and keep trying to come up with Doomsday scenarios since Lou Holtz left in 1996 but there is nothing on the horizon except that 4x16 playoff issue that ND is remotely concerned about regarding its status.

You could not find more than one or two ND fans on any CR site. CR is not really ever talked about on ND boards. It is not something that remotely concerns them.

I'm writing as someone that just doesn't see the appeal of ND for young kids, not the appeal I knew it had growing up. I think you're way too overconfident as well.

 

[TerryD]

I'm writing as someone that just doesn't see the appeal of ND for young kids, not the appeal I knew it had growing up. I think you're way too overconfident as well.

I have three kids, six nephews and five grand nephews/nieces. They are all ND fans despite several graduating from other universities. My family is similar to thousands of other ND fan base families. I think that overstate the "lack of appeal" for ND to young people.

Two of my sons were born/raised in Baton Rouge and graduated from LSU. They dislike the Tigers and root for ND.

I think that overstate the "lack of appeal" for ND to a lot of young people, especially from multi-generational ND families.

Time will tell. Take care.

 

[upstater]

I have three kids, six nephews and five grand nephews/nieces. They are all ND fans despite several graduating from other universities. My family is similar to thousands of other ND fan base families. I think that overstate the "lack of appeal" for ND to young people.

Time will tell. Take care.

No doubt it will always have appeal to ND people. I'm talking about young recruits, football players.

 

[TerryD]

No doubt it will always have appeal to ND people. I'm talking about young recruits, football players.

This discussion is taking too much of this thread, and I am certain the wrath of other posters is coming my way.

At the risk of a final post, here is a link to the Rivals team recruiting rankings over the years. ND always recruits pretty well.

https://n com/team_rankings/2017

(Looks like its behind a paywall, sorry. ND is currently # 6 this class, was #14 last year, was #11 the year before that, #11 the year before that and was #3 in 2013--coming off the 2012 12-0 regular season).

 

[upstater]

This discussion is taking too much of this thread, and I am certain the wrath of other posters is coming my way.

At the risk of a final post, here is a link to the Rivals team recruiting rankings over the years. ND always recruits pretty well.

https://n com/team_rankings/2017

(Looks like its behind a paywall, sorry. ND is currently # 6 this class, was #14 last year, was #11 the year before that, #11 the year before that and was #3 in 2013--coming off the 2012 12-0 regular season).

Well, that goes against what I'm saying. He's recruiting well.

 

[kyleslamb]

The gap has already widened. Seriously, take a look back at the revenue of Notre Dame now to its peers and check what it was 10-20 years ago. Arguing that Notre Dame isn't falling behind is ignoring reality. It's not happening drastically, but it's most definitely been happening gradually. In 2002, they were in top-5 in revenue. Now, they're like 15th. There's been a slow but clear trend. As conference media revenue continues to grow and Notre Dame's ratings continue to remain stagnant or even fall, they're falling further behind.

 

[TerryD]

Well, that goes against what I'm saying. He's recruiting well.

Right. ND is reruiting well. Kelly is not coaching very well this season.

Take care.

The gap has already widened. Seriously, take a look back at the revenue of Notre Dame now to its peers and check what it was 10-20 years ago. Arguing that Notre Dame isn't falling behind is ignoring reality. It's not happening drastically, but it's most definitely been happening gradually. In 2002, they were in top-5 in revenue. Now, they're like 15th. There's been a slow but clear trend. As conference media revenue continues to grow and Notre Dame's ratings continue to remain stagnant or even fall, they're falling further behind.

They are not going to fall that far, not enough to make a difference. In any event, money is not the main driver regarding whether ND stays indy.

ND could have called Jim Delany in 2012 if it were. Would he have taken ND as a full member? I think that he would have.

ND knew all of this and voluntarily chose to go in a different direction. That was my only point in this thread, that TV money is not the main issue regarding the status of ND football as an independent.

 

[kyleslamb]

Right. ND is reruiting well. Kelly is not coaching very well this season.

Take care.



They are not going to fall that far, not enough to make a difference. In any event, money is not the main driver regarding whether ND stays indy.

ND could have called Jim Delany in 2012 if it were. Would he have taken ND as a full member? I think that he would have.

ND knew all of this and voluntarily chose to go in a different direction. That was my only point in this thread, that TV money is not the main issue regarding the status of ND football as an independent.

And again, it's not the main issue right now but it will be when the trend continues over the next 10 years. Wait until you see the gap in 2025 if Notre Dame still isn't in a conference. If you think NBC is going to continue to view them as the golden goose with the ratings as they have been, you'll be sorely mistaken.

 

[whaler11]

Notre Dame's problem isn't revenue.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

ND fans are pissed at Kelly for this season but he won 12, 9, 8 and 10 games the four seasons before this one. ND is likely much closer to returning to 9-10 wins than likely having 3-9 seasons beyond this year.

Given your defensive implosion this year, is there any chance you guys want your old DC back and get the band back together from the glory days of the Kelly era?

We'll split the cost of the $5MM buyout for Diaco with you.

Deal?!

Please!

Please!

Pretty, please!

 

[kyleslamb]

Notre Dame's problem isn't revenue.

No one said it is...

 

[whaler11]

No one said it is...

Sorry I should have said Notre Dame's problem isn't going to be revenue going forward. That was Upstaters point.

 

[BUConn10]

Notre Dame will never join a conference because that's what makes, and keeps, then Notre Dame. Being in a conference year in and year out they'd be exposed. Imagine finishing outside the top 3 in the ACC the last few years as they would have with the teams they have fielded. Each year's mediocrity will build on to the next, making ND look bad if it can't even win the 3rd best league.

Being independent allows ND to feel special and act special while getting a clean slate every year. Being independent means there's no pesky conference rankings to remember and bring up each year.

 

[djct1999]

Seriously, I applaud anyone on here who really still cares. The writing is on the wall............for UConn, for ESPN, for college athletics. It sucks being the first to this party, but it won't end well for anyone involved.

 

[kyleslamb]

Sorry I should have said Notre Dame's problem isn't going to be revenue going forward. That was Upstaters point.

Notre Dame will think it's a problem when they find themselves not even a top-20 program in revenue after having always been top-5 since the age of television. It doesn't matter if it's actually a 'problem.' They're not going to be OK with not being a top-20 program in generating revenue. Ego is a large part of who they are. They won't let themselves start to fall behind in money. And that will happen if they don't join a league. This isn't 1990. They won't continue to live off weak OTA ratings while the conferences continue to get richer.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

This discussion is taking too much of this thread, and I am certain the wrath of other posters is coming my way.

At the risk of a final post, here is a link to the Rivals team recruiting rankings over the years. ND always recruits pretty well.

https://n com/team_rankings/2017

(Looks like its behind a paywall, sorry. ND is currently # 6 this class, was #14 last year, was #11 the year before that, #11 the year before that and was #3 in 2013--coming off the 2012 12-0 regular season).

don't pay too much attention to the rating services - they just look for the biggest clicks/subscription drivers.

 

[whaler11]

Notre Dame will think it's a problem when they find themselves not even a top-20 program in revenue after having always been top-5 since the age of television. It doesn't matter if it's actually a 'problem.' They're not going to be OK with not being a top-20 program in generating revenue. Ego is a large part of who they are. They won't let themselves start to fall behind in money. And that will happen if they don't join a league. This isn't 1990. They won't continue to live off weak OTA ratings while the conferences continue to get richer.

But they could make one call and join the ACC so if they thought revenue was an issue...

The Big Ten just made a deal going back towards OTA...

I really think they care more about independence than $10-20 million a year. Maybe a half decade of losing like this season would change their mind - but as long as they are good I don't see them changing course.

 

[Seaa Blue]

The Big Ten just made a deal going back towards OTA...
.

Notre Dame will have to continue to play when most other teams aren't if they want to maximize OTA revenue. And as a general rule, it really helps to win in prime time.

 

[whaler11]

Notre Dame will have to continue to play when most other teams aren't if they want to maximize OTA revenue. And as a general rule, it really helps to win in prime time.

Sure we can talk about the future - but they can still schedule games like next Saturday in Jacksonville which is on CBS.

They can show up in any stadium around the country and it's still a huge deal...

 

[HoopsFan21]

Notre Dame will never join a conference because that's what makes, and keeps, then Notre Dame. Being in a conference year in and year out they'd be exposed. Imagine finishing outside the top 3 in the ACC the last few years as they would have with the teams they have fielded. Each year's mediocrity will build on to the next, making ND look bad if it can't even win the 3rd best league.

Being independent allows ND to feel special and act special while getting a clean slate every year. Being independent means there's no pesky conference rankings to remember and bring up each year.

Isn't ND in the ACC? I didn't think you can call yourself independent while being a member of a conference. Aren't those two things mutually exclusive?

 

[TerryD]

Isn't ND in the ACC? I didn't think you can call yourself independent while being a member of a conference. Aren't those two things mutually exclusive?

Football isn't in any conference. So, no.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Football isn't in any conference. So, no.

Which works out well for ND, but over time I think it's toxic to the conference.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Football isn't in any conference. So, no.

I think your definition of independence is different than everyone else's. ND is contractually obligated to play a certain number (half?) of games against ACC teams. When you are forced to play a large number of your games against teams from a single conference you are effectively part of that conference if not officially. Some may prefer to do mental gymnastics to keep on believing in independence, but we all eventually grow up and figure out that a man in a red suit isn't squeezing down millions of chimneys in one night to deliver presents under a decorated pine tree. Besides that, the other 20 ND sports are all full members of the ACC, so even if football was absolutely independent, ND still cannot realistically call themselves independent when 95% of their sports are full members of a conference and are forced to operate under the ACC's rules and regulations. Operating under someone else's rules and regulations is not my idea of independence.

 

[Seaa Blue]

"Mental Gymnastics"?

 

[TerryD]

I think your definition of independence is different than everyone else's. ND is contractually obligated to play a certain number (half?) of games against ACC teams. When you are forced to play a large number of your games against teams from a single conference you are effectively part of that conference if not officially. Some may prefer to do mental gymnastics to keep on believing in independence, but we all eventually grow up and figure out that a man in a red suit isn't squeezing down millions of chimneys in one night to deliver presents under a decorated pine tree. Besides that, the other 20 ND sports are all full members of the ACC, so even if football was absolutely independent, ND still cannot realistically call themselves independent when 95% of their sports are full members of a conference and are forced to operate under the ACC's rules and regulations. Operating under someone else's rules and regulations is not my idea of independence.

ND football is not part of the ACC, officially or unofficially. So, ND football is independent. This is nothing new since ND's other sports were in the Big East since 1995.

Nobody in the Big East thought ND football was part of that conference. Nobody in the ACC (or in South Bend) think that ND football is part of the ACC.

It is only ND's opinions and stances on this issue that really matter, since they are the ones who decide their status.

P.S. I haven't believed in mythical creatures like Santa, the Easter Bunny or any deity since I was about seven, but nice try on the chimney jibe.