OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[uconnfan68]

A good run every 30 years?

Didn’t they play in multiple NC games in the last decade?

Ok, I googled it. In NC game 2015, 2016, 2018, and 2019. Won it in 2016 and 2018.

I would consider that previous success.

 

[Dove]

What kind of monsters put chili on pasta? That's just wrong.

Me

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Florida is the most plaintiff friendly state in America (Texas is a close second), so filing in a Florida court and trying to beat the GOR under state law gives FSU a decent chance to win. The precedent if FSU won would be devastating to businesses in Florida, so the court would have to split a hair that any ruling voiding a media sale contract was limited to FSU. But Florida courts have no problem with the precedent of “we are making this up as we go along”, so I think FSU is going to win.

I gotta tell you, I did backflips when I heard FSU got shafted in the playoffs. They think they got a raw deal, gee that’s too bad. I hope FSU sinks into Florida quicksand.

 

[uconngb]

Didn’t they play in multiple NC games in the last decade?

Ok, I googled it. In NC game 2015, 2016, 2018, and 2019. Won it in 2016 and 2018.

I would consider that previous success.

I would say that constitutes more than a “good run”. They also won a NC in the 80s. How many other programs have had that “good a run”.

 

[CL82]

I’m no FSU fan, but I’ve never heard that they pushed to take Louisville over us because we were mean and sued people previously. They wanted a school that was a safer bet from a football perspective. Nothing wrong with that, other than it wasn’t in our interest,

I think that was most of it, but I also think that there was some pushback that FSU felt subordinate to the tobacco road schools. Part of it was FSU flexing its muscles.

 

[CL82]

Me

And somehow I am not the least bit surprised.

 

[UCan3]

Minimal media deal?

It's huge. The damage to the rest of the conference is going to be considerable.

The Florida courts are going to rule for the Florida home team, but the ACC will just take it to North Carolina and they'll get a hometown ruling there themselves.

No TV partner is going to want to get into the middle of this fiasco. Although with the addition of SMU and Stanford, you know ESPN is itching to blow up the entire contract. They'd love it if 7 or 9 or whatever left. But they're not in the position of giving more $$ to whichever conference adds the new schools, and neither is Fox.

ESPN seems to imploding - numbers/viewership/down and their attempt to tilt scales during realignment is coming back to haunt them.

I love to see the 2 entities that put stuck us in the back (ESPN and ACC) are now seriously struggling and becoming the ”has beens” / outside looking in.

What goes round comes around as they say. love it and want no part of the ACC mess.

 

[Excalibur]

Being a dork, I read the complaints. Obviously the venue matters, but the FSU complaint is pure dog$#*t. Lots of colorful language, but not much in the way of legally actionable claims. They make a pretty weak attempt to set up a claim of duress and breach of fiduciary duty. In a neutral setting, I’m not sure those survive a motion to dismiss. Maybe their competition-based claims have merit — I don’t know enough on that topic to say one way or the other. The ACC’s complaint is far better. Sets out a clear timeline and articulation for the relief they are seeking.

Still, I don’t think the ACC gets specific enforcement of the GOR. Exiting a GOR has always been about determining damages, and everyone that has looked at trying to break one has determined that it would be too expensive. My guess is they win, but their remedy is damages if FSU decides to leave.

Whoever suggested that FSU could try to argue that the GOR can’t be enforced against a state entity, that’s a loser of an argument. They warranted to the conference and its members that the agreement could be enforced against them. If they make that claim, then the ACC sues for breach of warranty, and the damages are pretty easy to calculate.

I’d love to see the chaos of FSU leaving the ACC without consequence. I don’t think it’s likely.

 

[uh-no]

Being a dork, I read the complaints. Obviously the venue matters, but the FSU complaint is pure dog$#*t. Lots of colorful language, but not much in the way of legally actionable claims. They make a pretty weak attempt to set up a claim of duress and breach of fiduciary duty. In a neutral setting, I’m not sure those survive a motion to dismiss. Maybe their competition-based claims have merit — I don’t know enough on that topic to say one way or the other. The ACC’s complaint is far better. Sets out a clear timeline and articulation for the relief they are seeking.

Still, I don’t think the ACC gets specific enforcement of the GOR. Exiting a GOR has always been about determining damages, and everyone that has looked at trying to break one has determined that it would be too expensive. My guess is they win, but their remedy is damages if FSU decides to leave.

Whoever suggested that FSU could try to argue that the GOR can’t be enforced against a state entity, that’s a loser of an argument. They warranted to the conference and its members that the agreement could be enforced against them. If they make that claim, then the ACC sues for breach of warranty, and the damages are pretty easy to calculate.

I’d love to see the chaos of FSU leaving the ACC without consequence. I don’t think it’s likely.

THe accusation that the ACC lied about the nature of the ESPN negotiations in order to get them to sign the GoR could be interesting. Discovery will show who showed what and when, but if there is an omission, and FSU can show that it might have materially impacted their decision to sign the GoR, or the extension, then it could get interesting.

I'll just have my popcorn ready.

 

[B1GEast]

FSU has an undefeated football team, and it’s outside looking in on the football playoffs. There are those in the FSU administration that believe if they were in the SEC and Alabama was in the ACC, they would be in the playoffs and Alabama would be out. I think they probably have a point.

Guessing that was a final straw type of thing that probably helped initiate the suit. If nothing else it probably increases leverage for getting a bigger piece of the ACC pie if they have to remain.

This was the final straw. FSU is tired of being in a conference that does nothing for them, but the real problem is, is that bigger conferences are more interested in state schools like UNC and Virginia.

The ACC in terms of their revenue doesn't make sense. They have a bad deal and it's not going to improve any time soon.

IMO this is just a knee jerk reaction to not playing in the championship bowls.

They expanded to 12 teams, so next year FSU has a better shot, but with Texas and Oklahoma joining the SEC, it's possible that the SEC gets 5 teams or more in and with ND now with a seat at the table, those 8 extra spots may end up benefitting both the SEC and B1G, so FSU will do anything to break up the SEC.

I think they'll in for a surprise when other SEC teams get invited before they do.

I think the ACC is done and I will be glad to see them gone.

 

[willie99]

Programs that have abandoned their conferences have not fared well. I suppose there may be a couple of exceptions, but I just haven't seen success. I've seen the opposite

Colorado
Nebraska
Miami
Cuse
BC
Pitt
VA Tech
WVU
Mizzu
A & M

I mean, there's a rare occasional semi-decent season, but chasing titles and being highly regarded is toast at this point.

Miami was, emphasis on was, highly regarded in both football and baseball. Nebraska in football. Cuse in hoops. Pitt, VA Tech, WVU used to be on the fringe. BC wasn't always a perennial cellar dweller.

Karma? Recruiting? Geography? IDK

But we're going to see many more opportunities to test this process in the near future.

I know the schools are getting paid, but fans want to win

 

[Ha Who]

Programs that have abandoned their conferences have not fared well. I suppose there may be a couple of exceptions, but I just haven't seen success. I've seen the opposite

Colorado
Nebraska
Miami
Cuse
BC
Pitt
VA Tech
WVU
Mizzu
A & M

I mean, there's a rare occasional semi-decent season, but chasing titles and being highly regarded is toast at this point.

Miami was, emphasis on was, highly regarded in both football and baseball. Nebraska in football. Cuse in hoops. Pitt, VA Tech, WVU used to be on the fringe. BC wasn't always a perennial cellar dweller.

Karma? Recruiting? Geography? IDK

But we're going to see many more opportunities to test this process in the near future.

I know the schools are getting paid, but fans want to win

You can add FSU. Imagine when every game is Clemson?

 

[B1GEast]

Programs that have abandoned their conferences have not fared well. I suppose there may be a couple of exceptions, but I just haven't seen success. I've seen the opposite

Colorado
Nebraska
Miami
Cuse
BC
Pitt
VA Tech
WVU
Mizzu
A & M

I mean, there's a rare occasional semi-decent season, but chasing titles and being highly regarded is toast at this point.

Miami was, emphasis on was, highly regarded in both football and baseball. Nebraska in football. Cuse in hoops. Pitt, VA Tech, WVU used to be on the fringe. BC wasn't always a perennial cellar dweller.

Karma? Recruiting? Geography? IDK

But we're going to see many more opportunities to test this process in the near future.

I know the schools are getting paid, but fans want to win

But Financially those universities are better off.

It's about financial stability. If they get the right AD and coach they can easily turn things around, but you can't do that without money.

 

[willie99]

But Financially those universities are better off.

It's about financial stability. If they get the right AD and coach they can easily turn things around, but you can't do that without money.

You mean we have their money?

Or UNC & Dook? In the very Conference they're complaining about? BTW: Clemson is in the ACC and won at football too

You would think be now one of those schools would have found the right AD or Coach, no?

 

[UConn990411]

I’m no FSU fan, but I’ve never heard that they pushed to take Louisville over us because we were mean and sued people previously. They wanted a school that was a safer bet from a football perspective. Nothing wrong with that, other than it wasn’t in our interest,

Yup, I remember quotes at the time that FSU was tired of the Carolina schools calling all the shots and didn’t want another “northeastern basketball school.”

I understood that sentiment from their perspective. But adding Louisville because they were ranked at football at the time turned out to be extremely short-sighted and yet another horrible addition by the ACC.

 

[Hamms30]

At what point to the networks drop the hammer and tell the conferences that just because they're on a conquest of acquisition, that doesn't mean they're just going to keep throwing more and more money to them? At a certain point, Pepsi, Coke, Viagra, AB aren't going to care that the B1G wants Virginia or UNC and they're not going to pay whatever inflated prices the networks are charging for ad space.

 

[Yardigan]

Wow, so colleges also want to become free agents now.

The agents for these colleges must make crazy dough

 

[Yardigan]

I don't understanding all the conferencing drama that's been going on, but if FSU wins this suit, doesn't that mean the ACC is pretty much guaranteed to implode?

If a court rules that their exit fee is unenforceable, why wouldn't all the football-first schools immediately try to bolt?

It's not an "if". FSU is gone, it's just a cost and time equation that needs to be worked out.

 

[Waquoit]

Didn’t they play in multiple NC games in the last decade?

Ok, I googled it. In NC game 2015, 2016, 2018, and 2019. Won it in 2016 and 2018.

I would consider that previous success.

Yeah, a good run that seens to be over. Like the good run they had with Charlie Pell 40 years ago.

 

[John]

You mean we have their money?

Or UNC & Dook? In the very Conference they're complaining about? BTW: Clemson is in the ACC and won at football too

You would think be now one of those schools would have found the right AD or Coach, no?

Those schools have financial flexibility to hire and terminate coaches. You remember the ****show when we terminated our last mbb coach? That was some real small time stuff.

 

[bendm]

SEC: FSU & Clemson or Miami
BIG: UNC & Miami or UVA

 

[B1GEast]

SEC: FSU & Clemson or Miami
BIG: UNC & Miami or UVA

SEC - UNC / Virginia
B1G - FSU / Clemson
Big 12 - Miami and a few more value teams

 

[UConnJim]

When I took a business law course in grad school, the professor taught us that contracts work when both parties are satisfied over the life of a contract. If a contract becomes too one sided, there will be attempts to void the contract and litigation. And, people will put in penalty clauses in contracts that may be struck down in a court if they are deemed excessive.

I don't know if FSU will win their challenge to the GORs, but we will finally find out if they can after all of these years of internet speculation.

 

[jostar1]

Yup, I remember quotes at the time that FSU was tired of the Carolina schools calling all the shots and didn’t want another “northeastern basketball school.”

I understood that sentiment from their perspective. But adding Louisville because they were ranked at football at the time turned out to be extremely short-sighted and yet another horrible addition by the ACC.

This is from 2012:

"Not particularly, no," Florida State Board of Trustees Chairman Andy Haggard said of whether he would be in favor of the conference adding Connecticut and Rutgers. "But I would have to hear more about it. I'd have to see where Connecticut is, and Connecticut is playing good football right now, and where Rutgers is football wise, basketball wise, TV exposure, the elements of the country that they are in and all that.

"It certainly wouldn't be my pick but it wouldn't be my decision; it would be Swofford's and the ACC presidents. But I've heard a lot of backlash against Connecticut and Rutgers coming in because it would make us more of a basketball (conference) not a football (conference). That's what I get from fans, alumni, boosters and so forth."

As Haggard has noted before, schools with more traditionally strong football programs would be a better fit for the ACC as far as FSU is concerned.

 

[B1GEast]

When I took a business law course in grad school, the professor taught us that contracts work when both parties are satisfied over the life of a contract. If a contract becomes too one sided, there will be attempts to void the contract and litigation. And, people will put in penalty clauses in contracts that may be struck down in a court if they are deemed excessive.

I don't know if FSU will win their challenge to the GORs, but we will finally find out if they can after all of these years of internet speculation.

When I took business law I learned that when you sign a contract you're bound to it unless one of the parties does not follow through with what was agreed upon in the contract.

If FSU manages to escape the GOR it most likely will be from a majority of the teams agreeing to break up the conference

 

[UConnJim]

SEC - UNC / Virginia
B1G - FSU / Clemson
Big 12 - Miami and a few more value teams

Here's my view. ESPN could find a home for most schools and ultimately pay less than they are paying the ACC now. My premise is that the P2 and Big 12 each go to 20 schools:

Wild card is Notre Dame which would change the adds.

SEC: FSU/Clemson/Miami/Georgia Tech
Big 12: Louisville/Pitt/NC State/Virginia Tech
Big 10: UNC/Virginia

Out: Syracuse/Boston College/Duke/Wake Forest/Stanford/SMU/Cal

 

[ZooCougar]

I could see all 4, UNC, UVA, FSU, and Clemson.

I could see UNC and UVA.

I think that the B1G wants UF.

 

[UConnJim]

When I took business law I learned that when you sign a contract you're bound to it unless one of the parties does not follow through with what was agreed upon in the contract.

If FSU manages to escape the GOR it most likely will be from a majority of the teams agreeing to break up the conference

My business law professor wasn't speaking to the legality of a contract but to the practicality of a contract. In my business career, long term one sided contracts almost always leads to litigation and then compromise.

 

[jostar1]

 

[jostar1]