Florida Over Tennessee

[Kaizen]

IMHO, Tenn has 2 choices:
1. Let the coach go (not possible now)
2. Let the not cooperated players go (painful, but this can reset Tenn to start from fresh)

 

[Hongster]

It's the CURSE of LV.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The problem is that Holly is being held hostage by several of the "most talented" players

How do they do that while playing merde basketball? I don't get that. And who are they other than DD. Mercedes "Don't Bump Me" Russell. Who?

 

[johnnyc]

How do they do that while playing merde basketball? I don't get that. And who are they other than DD. Mercedes "Don't Bump Me" Russell. Who?

I think the op was alluding to not a specific threat but the possibility of transfer if they are benched. You have to be willing to make a statement even if it means playing walk-ons and/or having a few 're-building' seasons to re-establish the program.

 

[EricSD]

How do they do that while playing merde basketball? I don't get that. And who are they other than DD. Mercedes "Don't Bump Me" Russell. Who?

The players I'm referring to are Cooper and Deshields. I don't specifically know about the attitudes of the rest of the team, or even specifics about theirs, but I've read a lot about it and am putting 2 + 2 together.

As for other talented players, Russell was a top 3 kid and Nared was at least a top 10, maybe top 5. Cooper was top 8 per ASGR but 16 per BS and 12 per HG. And don't forget Graves was a top 5 kid too. It's the same old same old for them. Every year they say "but next year will be special because we have so many top kids coming back". They conveniently forget that last year, they graduated Massengale and Burdick - a pair of top 4 kids coming out of HS, and they also lost Harrison who was a top draft pick and ended up having a terrific career in spite of her "lower" HS ranking.

I'm not sure if you were asking what top players they have, or what top players are causing a chemistry issue. I can't speak with certainty on the 2nd, but I can certainly guess, which is what I've done...

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The players I'm referring to are Cooper and Deshields. I don't specifically know about the attitudes of the rest of the team, or even specifics about theirs, but I've read a lot about it and am putting 2 + 2 together.

As for other talented players, Russell was a top 3 kid and Nared was at least a top 10, maybe top 5. Cooper was top 8 per ASGR but 16 per BS and 12 per HG. And don't forget Graves was a top 5 kid too. It's the same old same old for them. Every year they say "but next year will be special because we have so many top kids coming back". They conveniently forget that last year, they graduated Massengale and Burdick - a pair of top 4 kids coming out of HS, and they also lost Harrison who was a top draft pick and ended up having a terrific career in spite of her "lower" HS ranking.

I'm not sure if you were asking what top players they have, or what top players are causing a chemistry issue. I can't speak with certainty on the 2nd, but I can certainly guess, which is what I've done...

Cooper is not developing and that is not strange, since Tenn has no system that can develop a quality guard. She'd do well to transfer. DD - could she transfer? Physical question mark. 3 is a charm? I suspect she just becomes the consummate chucker in the hopes of finding a WNBA home for chuckers at the end of 2017 season.

 

[Nuyoika]

Cooper is not developing and that is not strange, since Tenn has no system that can develop a quality guard. She'd do well to transfer. DD - could she transfer? Physical question mark. Head case. 3 is a charm? I suspect she just becomes the consummate chucker in the hopes of finding a WNBA home for chuckers at the end of 2017 season.

Watching the game last night I was thinking she would leave early... like what would be the advantage for her staying? She will likely already have her degree. I think it is at least 50/50 on her leaving for the WNBA at the end of the 2016-2017 season.

 

[sarals24]

Watching the game last night I was thinking she would leave early... like what would be the advantage for her staying? She will likely already have her degree. I think it is at least 50/50 on her leaving for the WNBA at the end of the 2016-2017 season.

Oh I'd say the odds are like 80-20 she leaves. Maybe even higher.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A few quotes from her...

"I'm telling them to drive and they are shooting 3's" (Diamond 0-5, Coooper 1-5, Nared 0-2, Middleton 0-3 - Hey Holly how about sitting the players who jacked up five 3-pointers against your instructions?)

On shot selection "It wasn't impatience because we were going deep into the clock. I don't know. Ask them. I'm saying one thing and they are doing another"... (see my comment above. Bench players who don't listen)

"Tonight we weren't just missing a leader - we were missing the whole team"

The rest of the presser is pretty much more of the same - team didn't do what the coaches wanted them to do. The solution is rather simple, but hard to implement. She needs to bench players who don't listen in favor of those who do and not let them off the bench until they do what the coaches want. If that means sitting the problem players for 1 game or 5 games until they get the message.

Heck, Geno sat Morgan and Stewie for an entire game last season. Message received. Play the way we want, and the way we know you are capable of playing, or ride the pine. If that pisses players off, tough . If they want to transfer because they don't want to listen to the coaches, then fine - team chemistry will be better down the road. The problem is that Holly is being held hostage by several of the "most talented" players on the team and until she grows a pair, it will be more of the same.

I was too lazy to do the work, but pretty fascinating stuff huh! Her demeanor: If I act a little puzzled and disgusted I can skate on my own responsibility. I'm increasingly thinking she thinks she's Pat Summit.

 

[Kaizen]

Cooper is not developing and that is not strange, since Tenn has no system that can develop a quality guard. She'd do well to transfer. DD - could she transfer? Physical question mark. 3 is a charm? I suspect she just becomes the consummate chucker in the hopes of finding a WNBA home for chuckers at the end of 2017 season.

Who wants those players I just doubt? They can do the same things repeatedly.

 

[Carnac]

I watched the first quarter, went back to my piano and then checked back at the end
Amazing, amazing, amazing as ole Casey used to say.
They were so dominant at the top with good strong D
And getting the ball inside to Mercedes and Graves, even hitting 3's
Up by how much? 10, 11?
How could they lose?
A team that takes it foot off the gas, I suppose and forgets what got them there.
Talk about a badly coached team.
And their savior, Miss Diamond, is just not right, she looks awful.

I perused the game "comments" section of ESPN's scores right after that game. The natives are restless. Of the approx. 35 posts there, not one was positive. Most of them questioned her coaching skill, judgement and acumen, while others were calling for her immediate dismissal.

One common question was how could a team with so much talent be so unorganized and undisciplined. Many complained that there appeared to be a lack of leadership from the bench and on the floor. Some also questioned why most of their top recruits have not developed as expected up to this point. One poster feared a mass exodus of players from the program, including DeShields.

One supporter indicated that he was done!! He was turning in his "booster club card", and no longer following the program until such time as Holly is no longer the coach (ouch).

To say that these are troubling times in the Lady Volunteer kingdom is an understatement.

 

[Icebear]

RE: Holly's lack of control.

Here's what I don't understand. I have to believe that the LV players are as competitive as those on any other team, and want to return Tennessee to its former greatness. And it's pretty clear that when they go off script, the results are often disastrous.

So what compels them to repeat self-destructive behavior? If there is underlying antipathy towards the coaching staff, then why not transfer to a better situation?

There is a complete lack of trust between players and coaching staff.

 

[EricSD]

One thing I would like to point out is that it's super easy to be a fan of UCONN when they have basically won 50% of the NC's in the past 16 years. We are blessed and lucky as a fan base. Someday Geno will retire and we will be faced with a successor who likely will enjoy not even close to the success Geno has enjoyed. It's even possible that UCONN will never win another NC once Geno is gone. This is what Tennessee fans are facing.

Not only has the recruiting been dwindling

1. 2014 - Nared (#6, 19 and 25), Middleton (#28, 22, 46) and Dunbar (#78, 74, 65)
2. 2015 - Cooper (#12, 16, 8 Jackson (#49, 28, 35)
3. 2016 - No one recruited. No one left on the board except Ionescu (who's staying west) and top 40 kid Harris

Looking ahead to next year, they would have:

1. SR - Carter, Jones, Reynolds
2. JR - DD, Russell, Dunbar Middleton, Nared
3. SO - Cooper, Jackson
4. FR - Nobody

Assuming that both Russell and DD stay until their senior years, they would need a plethora of top players from 2017 to still be competitive. I suppose you could start Cooper, Middleton, Nared, DD and Russell, but that leaves a bench of Dunbar, Jackson, and whoever they get from 2017. I'm unconvinced that top kids will continue to look at Tennessee the disarray the team is currently in. Let's hope they don't land any top 10 kids in 2017 either - then the slide will almost be complete!

Lastly, if DD and/or Russell leave early, and I think it's more likely DD would than Russell, then they are in even deeper trouble from a talent standpoint.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Their current problems are also showing up at the ticket office. UTenn was once a lock to be the WCBB attendance leader, year after year. Half way through this year's home games, attendance is down almost 15% from just two years ago. Unless something changes they will not break 10K/game for the 1st time that I can remember.

 

[asuwish]

74 - 66. Lady Vols with all that talent shoot 29%.

[LINK] to stats

2 years ago DD took something like 167 3's and shot about 29%. Sit her if she shoots them. As for players not following the coaches direction she MUST pull them out of the game and make the statement to the team - follow my game plan or sit. This isn't the NBA. They have depth and no one player should be so important (especially if the aren't following the coaches lead) that she can't bench any player she needs to. Many coaches are nervous to bench a starter for fear of losing the game, but it's about the season not one game.

 

[choochoo]

How come no one is posting about South Carolina barely beating Vandy last night. They looked like they were playing in slow motion till the last few minutes and won by 10 on free throws. Big sub par effort by the gamecocks IMHO!

 

[Nuyoika]

How come no one is posting about South Carolina barely beating Vandy last night. They looked like they were playing in slow motion till the last few minutes and won by 10 on free throws. Big sub par effort by the gamecocks IMHO!

Mainly because that is who they are. They are a fourth quarter team. They are not elite in the sense that they will be taking people people out in the second or third quarter. When you watch them play, it is almost as if they are more comfortable when the game is close. Keep in mind they spent a lot of last year playing from behind in games vs ranked opponents and in the NCAA tourney. It is just their nature so it is not really all that surprising. They always manage to pull it out though, well for the most part.

 

[sivad40]

Not to single anyone out and there are rumors of injuries in both years but ...
Freshman of the year shooting percentages: .426/.279 while taking 24% of the teams shots and 25% of their threes - A/TO 0.75
Red Shirt Sophomore numbers: .391/.233 while taking 24% of teams shots and 28% of their threes - A/TO 0.76

And the PG of the future that made the Danger superfluous to requirements is second on the team in shots (15%) and three attempts shoots (21%) is hitting at .328/.217 with an A/TO of 0.85.

Those numbers of course look worse than they really are when you consider the whole team shoots .404/.231 with an A/TO of 0.81

A co-worker of mine who is a Tennessee fan is convinced that Diamond in order for to be effective, Holly has has to let Diamond shoot 20 or more shots per game. He realizes that she's a volume shooter but he doesn't mind her going 6 for 20 this game because she might go 12 of 20 the next game. IMO, you won't win a title having your two worst shooters taking over 39% in shots and over 50% in three point attempts. The reason Diamond's stats at UNC could be glossed over is because she had better offensive players around her that made up for her deficiencies. Cooper came in as not being a three point shooter and her AAU foul prone ways have continue on the collegiate level. I also have noticed that Cooper will only look to pass the ball to certain players and overlook others and you don't need your PG to have that type of mindset.

I'm not surprised that chemistry issues that UNC had followed Diamond to Tennessee. Her style of play forces her post players to become putback players or they have to come out to the high posts and become stretch fours or else they won't get their touches. That's the reason why Xylina McDaniel had to go out on the perimeter and start shooting and making threes because she wasn't getting her shots in post and I speculate that some of the reasons why Graves and Russell often have to come out in out high post to get the ball. I said from day 1 that Holly's biggest issue for this team is how will she be able to control Diamond and things aren't going to turn around until she does.

 

[Kaizen]

A co-worker of mine who is a Tennessee fan is convinced that Diamond in order for to be effective, Holly has has to let Diamond shoot 20 or more shots per game. He realizes that she's a volume shooter but he doesn't mind her going 6 for 20 this game because she might go 12 of 20 the next game. .

Well, she might get 3 of 20 the next game also. If a player is so inconsistent she must have problems.

 

[Zorro]

Watching the game last night I was thinking she would leave early... like what would be the advantage for her staying? She will likely already have her degree. I think it is at least 50/50 on her leaving for the WNBA at the end of the 2016-2017 season.

She could leave for overseas earlier than that.

 

[Woof 101]

Excellent point Nan.

And this is why, if the AD fires Holly, the entire coaching staff must go too. An entirely new culture must be brought to the program that includes accountability on the players part.

Yes time for a UCONN protégé! This would put the final stamp on the old battle and have us play them every year to start a new one! We could cheer for Rocky Top except for once or twice a year!

 

[cabbie191]

For those who watched the game, I am curious to what extent Tennessee employed a full court press.

It seems that this has been pretty good for them in recent games resulting in sparking energy and offensive production. Wonder if they threw up this egg despite using the press or if they went away from using a tactic that had been successful. If the latter, then one really has to question the coaching acumen at Rocky Top.

 

[Dougie]

For me it is this simple. With Geno and a healthy Tuck next year I like our chances better than anyone else's. Without Tuck it is a more even race but with Geno as the jockey I would still bet UCONN to win come April 2017.

I don't know whether Geno would like the "jockey" reference. Maybe he'd prefer pilot or something.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I don't know whether Geno would like the "jockey" reference. Maybe he'd prefer pilot or something.

Dougie: Geno used the reference last spring, when asked for the umpteenth time about having the best players, he said something like "the best jockeys ride the best horses." It might have been just an impromptu thought which he wouldn't otherwise use. Who knows?

 

[Samanthabrown3]

One thing I would like to point out is that it's super easy to be a fan of UCONN when they have basically won 50% of the NC's in the past 16 years. We are blessed and lucky as a fan base. Someday Geno will retire and we will be faced with a successor who likely will enjoy not even close to the success Geno has enjoyed. It's even possible that UCONN will never win another NC once Geno is gone. This is what Tennessee fans are facing.

I was thinking that as I was reading Vol Nation. That new coach's first year will be pivotal.

But Pat was having team troubles even a couple of years before she retired. Remember that team that didn't get out of the first round of the NCAAs?

 

[Dougie]

Dougie: Geno used the reference last spring, when asked for the umpteenth time about having the best players, he said something like "the best jockeys ride the best horses." It might have been just an impromptu thought which he wouldn't otherwise use. Who knows?

Thanks. I missed that one.