End state relationship with and tax breaks for ESPN NOW | Page 2 | The Boneyard

End state relationship with and tax breaks for ESPN NOW

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WhereistheDove? said:
The original point I made in this thread (and what you responded to), was that it would be ridiculous to stop the tax breaks and potentially lose ESPN if they didn't pressure some conference into taking us or gives us a better contract... which you agree with? I'm really not sure what your point is here.
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I would get a little nasty.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
This is all working under the assumption that UConn academics will crumble and cease to exist at a meaningful level altogether due to us not being invited to the ACC, and that this can be completely controlled by the executives at ESPN. Bottom line is that more than likely UConn gets sucked up in the inevitable next round of realignment. UConn isn't going to end up in division 3 and the world is not going to end. So for a couple million bucks for a couple of years, no it's not worth potentially driving away a major employer and taxpayer. Your hysterics are getting a little over the top.
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There's a difference between "hysterics" and "getting tough at the bargaining table", the latter of which Connecticut as a whole is not real good at when it comes to big-time sports. Goes back to being played like hicks by Peter Karmanos (bribing Lowell Weicker with Compuware board spot), Robert Kraft. Malloy strolls into office and throws money at ESPN at almost the very same time they're telling the ACC to get two more teams which they knew was going to blow up the Big East.

Now maybe they were thinking that UConn was going to be one of the two and were surprised by BC's balloon knot-ness. But once it was clear UConn was out on an island they should have been working every single back-channel they had to help. There's zero evidence they have.

No one is saying "UConn academics will crumble". But all the advancement of the 1990s and 2000s will go in reverse if this doesn't end the right way, and we'll be back with URI, UMass, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine sooner than you think.

ESPN isn't going anywhere. If they put their minds to fixing this it would get fixed. They just need to pushed a little bit.
 
ruskin said:
There's a difference between "hysterics" and "getting tough at the bargaining table", the latter of which Connecticut as a whole is not real good at when it comes to big-time sports. Goes back to being played like hicks by Peter Karmanos (bribing Lowell Weicker with Compuware board spot), Robert Kraft. Malloy strolls into office and throws money at ESPN at almost the very same time they're telling the ACC to get two more teams which they knew was going to blow up the Big East.

Now maybe they were thinking that UConn was going to be one of the two and were surprised by BC's -ness. But once it was clear UConn was out on an island they should have been working every single back-channel they had to help. There's zero evidence they have.

No one is saying "UConn academics will crumble". But all the advancement of the 1990s and 2000s will go in reverse if this doesn't end the right way, and we'll be back with URI, UMass, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine sooner than you think.

ESPN isn't going anywhere. If they put their minds to fixing this it would get fixed. They just need to pushed a little bit.
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I meant to say you're assuming that UConn athletics will crumble. Regardless, your hypothetical downside of UConn not being in the ACC (both academically and athletically) is way over the top, and until you realize that the world is not ending and UConn will not return to being a subpar school, there is really nothing to be talked about. I'm a little dumbfounded by your position.
 
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upstater said:
I'd threaten them.
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Do you think companies won't start moving jobs elsewhere if they can get more financially advantageous deals elsewhere? The concept of the state's leverage in this situation is so far blown out of proportion. Please though, just stop it. The net effect of UConn not being taken by a major conference YET is so minor compared to not only the state's, but UConn's budget as a whole. Just stop it, this is getting absurd.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Do you think companies won't start moving jobs elsewhere if they can get more financially advantageous deals elsewhere? The concept of the state's leverage in this situation is so far blown out of proportion. Please though, just stop it. The net effect of UConn not being taken by a major conference YET is so minor compared to not only the state's, but UConn's budget as a whole. Just stop it, this is getting absurd.
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They're not increasing taxes on them... Subtle jabs of a lack of tax breaks in the future.

Sure they can move to New Jersey, and then what? Lose hundreds of millions in creating a new campus?
 
upstater said:
They're not increasing taxes on them... Subtle jabs of a lack of tax breaks in the future.

Sure they can move to New Jersey, and then what? Lose hundreds of millions in creating a new campus?
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I'm done with this. Your opinion on the priorities of this state right now are so far out of whack that there is just no point in saying the same things back and forth.
 
Shouldn't some of this ire be directed to NBC Sports who is also receiving tax breaks. I mean, they were the one with the low ball offer that only required ESPN to match. So if you want to take away everything from ESPN, take away everything from NBC Sports too. Throw in the hedge fund, Jackson Labs and every other tax break for jobs while you are at it just because they must have some blame in all of this too.
 
CBS is only paying $2M for some Tier 2 basketball stuff - I say we scramble their signal inside the state of Connecticut.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Do you think companies won't start moving jobs elsewhere if they can get more financially advantageous deals elsewhere? The concept of the state's leverage in this situation is so far blown out of proportion. Please though, just stop it. The net effect of UConn not being taken by a major conference YET is so minor compared to not only the state's, but UConn's budget as a whole. Just stop it, this is getting absurd.
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I want $100MM in state subsidies for my business, and I promise not to do anything to hurt UConn. Therefore, my business is more deserving than ESPN, right?
 
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WhereistheDove? said:
The net effect of UConn not being taken by a major conference YET is so minor compared to not only the state's, but UConn's budget as a whole. Just stop it, this is getting absurd.
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Let me ask you this: other than employing people, does ESPN have any other responsibilities to the state when it accepts tax benefits? You know, like being a good neighbor and helping the flagship university?

Your position seems to be that ESPN's presence in Connecticut is of such vital importance that we even must sacrifice our own self-interest lest we piss them off and they pick up stakes and leave. If anything is overstated here, it's the idea that ESPN would pick up and move at the drop of a hat if we dared to ask them what in their universe is a relatively small favor.

The larger issue is that Malloy made all these deals with already highly profitable and stable companies that weren't considering leaving. If I were king I would have given the $$ to smaller, less stable business which are leaving the state. But now that the deal has been made, we ought to get something for our money. If this state loses big-time college football and basketball -- which is more at risk than some here think (take YET out of the first sentence above) -- it will lose one of the few things which make living here bearable.
 
ruskin said:
Let me ask you this: other than employing people, does ESPN have any other responsibilities to the state when it accepts tax benefits? You know, like being a good neighbor and helping the flagship university?
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No, they don't.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I want $100MM in state subsidies for my business, and I promise not to do anything to hurt UConn. Therefore, my business is more deserving than ESPN, right?
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That is the state's plan. Give out lots of tax breaks so they can get a fraction of it back through UConn's TV contract.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I want $100MM in state subsidies for my business, and I promise not to do anything to hurt UConn. Therefore, my business is more deserving than ESPN, right?
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I don't know. How many people do you employ and where are you currently situated? I'd probably need see your financials or at least 5 years tax returns.
 
BTW, I doubt that the state was sufficiently forward thinking to put in "if you cause the demise of the conference to which UConn is affiliated, the deal is off" clause in it's contract, but I'd definitely agree that ESPN should never, ever get another dollar from the state, or any break anywhere in CT. He'll I'd do a state tax audit on them to make sure they don't have unreported out of state purchases that they didn't pay tax on. Hold them to the letter of law from here on out.
 
What the State of CT should do is tell ESPN that they have to retract ESPN's tax break because they need to give the taxes they collect from ESPN to UCONN Athletics to help makeup for the lousy conference TV contract. That would be hilarious :)
 
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WhereistheDove? said:
That is the state's plan. Give out lots of tax breaks so they can get a fraction of it back through UConn's TV contract.
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I love how you minimize the value of UConn being in a stable conference compared to the worth of being the home of the great vaunted World Wide Leader If you want to sneeze at $12-$15 million a year, go ahead. You know that's just a starting point, right? Compare the economic impact of Michigan coming here compared to, oh, say, South Florida and Memphis? Maryland vs. Buffalo? And that's just football. And that's not counting the non-athletic donations a successful big-time college program brings in.
 
ruskin said:
I love how you minimize the value of UConn being in a stable conference compared to the worth of being the home of the great vaunted World Wide Leader If you want to sneeze at $12-$15 million a year, go ahead. You know that's just a starting point, right? Compare the economic impact of Michigan coming here compared to, oh, say, South Florida and Memphis? Maryland vs. Buffalo? And that's just football. And that's not counting the non-athletic donations a successful big-time college program brings in.
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You think I'm minimizing the value of UConn not being in a stable athletic conference and I think you're severely overstating the benefits of not being in a stable athletic conference for the next couple of years until there is another inevitable round of realignment. And yes, $12-15 million a year is something to scoff at when compared with the economic benefit of ESPN to the state.
 
I hope you're right about the "inevitability" of realignment.
Oh well. You the CT taxpayer (I assume) have no problem with a company that gets state aid cutting the state U. at the knees. I the CT taxpayer have a major problem with it. Just hope whatever business you're in doesn't get steamrolled by another company getting a hand from the state.
 
I will put it simply. ESPN as part of Disney exists to generate returns for its shareholders. It's job is to maximize revenues and minimize expenses. That's it.

Sometimes you invest in the short term to generate better long term returns. Sometimes you capitalize on market dislocations.

It doesn't "feel" right. But if your paycheck depended on making those decisions you would do the same thing.
 
I haven't read every post so someone might have touched on this.
Forget about the lost revenue to UConn. Thats Chump change compared to the lost revenue to the state of Connecticut by a diminished UConn athletic Department.
The loss of business in downtown Hartford during basketball and the maintainence of a partially full state owned Rent .
The state gets a cut on every ticket sold,every car rented every meal eaten etc..

Its not only UCONN but every tax payer in the state who will shoulder this revenue loss.
This has potential to become is a huge political issue. Especially if ESPN is a player.

Start with your state legislature
Political hay can be and should be made on this issue.
 
06029 said:
Shouldn't some of this ire be directed to NBC Sports who is also receiving tax breaks. I mean, they were the one with the low ball offer that only required ESPN to match. So if you want to take away everything from ESPN, take away everything from NBC Sports too. Throw in the hedge fund, Jackson Labs and every other tax break for jobs while you are at it just because they must have some blame in all of this too.
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Pretty much... Hell - lets cut off the Yankees if the Pinstripe Bowl goes by the wayside!

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130311/PRINTEDITION/303089975

"Some are even calling Connecticut the sports media capital of the world with ESPN, NBC Sports, Yes Network and Hartford's fledgling golf lifestyle channel Back9Network, now calling the Nutmeg State home."
 
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J187Money said:
I will put it simply. ESPN as part of Disney exists to generate returns for its shareholders. It's job is to maximize revenues and minimize expenses. That's it.

Sometimes you invest in the short term to generate better long term returns. Sometimes you capitalize on market dislocations.

It doesn't "feel" right. But if your paycheck depended on making those decisions you would do the same thing.
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Wow. I had no idea how business worked. Thanks.

Back to the argument. Why should state taxpayers pick one business out of a hat and give it $100MM? Why not take the billions of targeted tax breaks given to favored corporations and just make everyone's taxes lower? Funny how all these Blumenthal and Malloy haters never thought of that.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
No, they don't.
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For what it's worth, I fully disagree with this. As a part owner of a business. I think you are just as over the top in the other direction. Tax breaks should cause state and private parties to be working cooperatively.
 
businesslawyer said:
For what it's worth, I fully disagree with this. As a part owner of a business. I think you are just as over the top in the other direction. Tax breaks should cause state and private parties to be working cooperatively.
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They are working cooperatively. The state is providing them tax breaks and ESPN is rewarding that by being a major employer and taxpayer. It is not their responsibility to look out for the best interests of UConn. It is their responsibility to look out for the best interests of Disney's shareholders. I get it, people are angry that UConn was left out in the cold, but most of this vitriol aimed towards ESPN just seems like fans desperately searching for someone to blame for our situation.
 
ruskin said:
There's a lot of infrastructure in Bristol that would not be cheap to replicate elsewhere.

ESPN should be asked/pushed to do something to truly help UConn. Doesn't have to be confrontational, but the words "anti-trust" being used wouldn't hurt.
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You guys saying this realize another state would pay to replicate their infrastructure to have them right? States are playing for keeps to attract high profile jobs.
 
businesslawyer said:
For what it's worth, I fully disagree with this. As a part owner of a business. I think you are just as over the top in the other direction. Tax breaks should cause state and private parties to be working cooperatively.
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This is true. The disconnect for some is the level of control ESPN has. They don't control Florida State or Boston College.
 
whaler11 said:
This is true. The disconnect for some is the level of control ESPN has. They don't control Florida State or Boston College.
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Let's go back to the summer of 2011. The ACC has a 10 year contract that is suddenly way below market. The only way to reopen that contract is with ESPN's sole consent. In Whaler's world, ESPN has absolutely no influence in that situation, and the people with the long-term below market deal have all the power. Got it.
 
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