Dupree and DT Join - BG still being evaluated [merged thread]

[easttexastrash]

Lavendar can hit the 15-18 footer the little I saw of her. Which is part of the reason why I don't see Steph beating her out. I could be wrong but the little I saw from LA she showed she could hit outside shots a bit. And if she was as good as she was in Europe, I suspect she was also hitting them there. I could be wrong - maybe some people that watched her in LA could advise.

Lavender has a very nice shot from 15 to 20 feet. That is actually one of her strengths.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cambage is not going to beat the USA by herself and I don't believe Australia will be that strong this year given Jackson's absence. People are touting Spain and France as the best of the rest.

To be fair, that was what people said about the 2012 Olympics, when Penny Taylor could not play due to injury. And that team led the U.S. at the half.

But yes, Australia will not beat the U.S. without Lauren Jackson, just like it would not have defeated the U.S. without Penny Taylor. Nevertheless, the Opals can make a game interesting, and Australia is a heavy favorite to earn a medal.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think Lavender vs Dolson is a moot point as I believe BG will be approved to travel before the WCs begin. She should be able to step right in and play without too much of an adjustment period.

 

[Vowelguy]

I think Lavender vs Dolson is a moot point as I believe BG will be approved.

Is it moot? I view BG as someone recovering from an injury and thus she could still get reinjured. If I were on the committee, I still think I'd want a backup.

 

[pap49cba]

To be fair, that was what people said about the 2012 Olympics, when Penny Taylor could not play due to injury. And that team led the U.S. at the half.

But yes, Australia will not beat the U.S. without Lauren Jackson, just like it would not have defeated the U.S. without Penny Taylor. Nevertheless, the Opals can make a game interesting, and Australia is a heavy favorite to earn a medal.

Not disagreeing as I don't follow the Opals but they recently lost a scrimmage to Canada. Don't know who played and who didn't. The USA did not lose to Canada even though DT and Dupree were not available.

 

[UcMiami]

Looking at stats from this year in the WNBA they are quite similar - the things that stand out to me (even when regularized to 36 minutes) is that Lavender scored about 50% more while shooting a 30 points higher and fouled significantly less - Dolson had about 0.5 assists and 0.5 rebounds more and about 1 block more per 36 minutes but also had just under 1 TO more.
Dolson was not a starter and Lavender was so presumably Lavender spent more of her time playing against other starters than Dolson did, and Dolson played in the Eastern conference which only had one team over .500 which presumably means the competition was weaker though overall the centers in the Eastern conference might be better?
I can't say either of them fills me with a lot of confidence should they need to play extended minutes against a good team. Thank goodness Charles is healthy and BG is still possible. I feel the same way about the competition for the young guard - I don't think any off them is really ready for USA basketball.
Of course Sue Bird in 2002 scored 4.3 ppg on 33% shooting, had 3 assists, 6 steals, and 7 rebounds in total over the seven games played. Of course by the 2004 Olympics she was doing much better at 2.9 ppg on 30% shooting with 8 assists, 2 steals, and 6 rebounds in total over the same seven game stretch! But DT made a bigger splash in her debut in 2004 - 8.5 ppg at 38% shooting with 8 assists, 7 steals, 24 rebounds, AND 3 blocks total over the seven games.
I just put those numbers up there to remind us all that even the current stars of USA basketball took a few years on the team to get going. If we are depending on our back-up center, fourth guard, or third forward to win the WC, then the team is already in trouble.

 

[Dickers]

No intention to screw up this excellent Stef v Lavender debate, but has anybody been able to confirm that ESPN 3 will stream the USA v Australia game tomorrow at 11:30 AM??

 

[Kibitzer]

Until this thread morphed into a Stef v. Lavender competition, it seemed tha Cambage was to be feared as the female reincarnation of Wilt or Kareem and some posters based their Boneyard projections of the USA roster with her as their focus.

In a different setting in an earlier era, Wilt and Kareem for all their 7'+ greatness, were beaten in NBA championship playoffs (best of seven) by teams with centers named Cowens and Russell, both about 4" shorter than their illustrious counterparts.

And long before auditioning for Secretary of State, Dennis Rodman outrebounded lots of taller guys.

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

 

[UcMiami]

No intention to screw up this excellent Stef v Lavender debate, but has anybody been able to confirm that ESPN 3 will stream the USA v Australia game tomorrow at 11:30 AM??

Just checked ESPN3 and do not see anything listed for tomorrow.

 

[UcMiami]

Until this thread morphed into a Stef v. Lavender competition, it seemed tha Cambage was to be feared as the female reincarnation of Wilt or Kareem and some posters based their Boneyard projections of the USA roster with her as their focus.

In a different setting in an earlier era, Wilt and Kareem for all their 7'+ greatness, were beaten in NBA championship playoffs (best of seven) by teams with centers named Cowens and Russell, both about 4" shorter than their illustrious counterparts.

And long before auditioning for Secretary of State, Dennis Rodman outrebounded lots of taller guys.

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

Good point - but Russell and Cowens were a lot stronger/heavier than say Bird or Havlicek who likely would have been overwhelmed by either Wilt or Kareem

 

[hoophuskee]

I was at the game and only once was it Stef's fault when the very tall very slender person she was guarding took her off the dribble. the other times she tried to help aqnd her man got free with no weak side help.

I don't agree with your take. I was watching the game -missed the 1sthalf ---and quite a bit what Carolyn Peck was talking in 2nd half was regarding the defense -was lack of interior defense. Anyone on the boneyard here that listened to the 2nd half couldattest to that. It sounds like what you're saying is - Dolson wasn't the problem it was everybody else." So the rookie got it all down, everyone else was messing up?

Nope - I don't see it that way. Secondly help and recover is also important. Bottomline Peck was saying our inside defense was the weaknest part - I didn't see great inside defense overall. And help and recover is also a key ingredient for "defense."

 

[VAMike23]

My point? Ability to play team offense (fast break or half-court) and team defense overcomes size or scoring of any team with a couple stars of any size.

I think that's generally true but it bears repeating that personnel can be key in particular matchups, as it was in the Olympics last time around. Putting the right body (Asjha Jones) on Cambage made a difference because AJ was able to do what was needed in the matchup against Cambage; namely, root her out of the post. It was a pretty simple equation. We got someone strong enough and experienced enough to do that (Tina also contributed a lot but AJ's contribution was decisive, IMO) and it wasn't so much of a defensive scheme or help defense that did the trick. Once Asjha got her away from the basket, she was less much less effective to begin with (go figure, she's 6'8") and also the rest of the defense had a better shot at giving help from that position. But the crucial 'chore' fell to the individual defender to get a tough job done.

My 2 cents only

 

[RadyLady]

Is it moot? I view BG as someone recovering from an injury and thus she could still get reinjured. If I were on the committee, I still think I'd want a backup.

Additionally when she gets in she's not having played with this group of players or under this coach, and not knowing the offensive sets and so forth and the defense that Geno asks for, she's got a bit of a learning curve ahead of her.

 

[UConnCat]

I think that's generally true but it bears repeating that personnel can be key in particular matchups, as it was in the Olympics last time around. Putting the right body (Asjha Jones) on Cambage made a difference because AJ was able to do what was needed in the matchup against Cambage; namely, root her out of the post. It was a pretty simple equation. We got someone strong enough and experienced enough to do that (Tina also contributed a lot but AJ's contribution was decisive, IMO) and it wasn't so much of a defensive scheme or help defense that did the trick. Once Asjha got her away from the basket, she was less much less effective to begin with (go figure, she's 6'8") and also the rest of the defense had a better shot at giving help from that position. But the crucial 'chore' fell to the individual defender to get a tough job done.

My 2 cents only

Actually, it was Tina who guarded Cambage; AJ guarded Lauren Jackson for the most part. I re-watched the game not too long ago. Cambage's ineffectiveness in the 2nd half (0 points) was a combination of fatigue and Tina putting her body on her before she could set up in the lane. AJ played 10 very effective minutes and contained LJ.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Tina has banged against Cambage, Stef and Jantel...I wonder what she's telling Geno?

 

[doggydaddy]

I don't agree with your take. I was watching the game -missed the 1sthalf ---and quite a bit what Carolyn Peck was talking in 2nd half was regarding the defense -was lack of interior defense. Anyone on the boneyard here that listened to the 2nd half couldattest to that. It sounds like what you're saying is - Dolson wasn't the problem it was everybody else." So the rookie got it all down, everyone else was messing up?

Nope - I don't see it that way. Secondly help and recover is also important. Bottomline Peck was saying our inside defense was the weaknest part - I didn't see great inside defense overall. And help and recover is also a key ingredient for "defense."

I try to never use what the announcers say, especially Peck, to help back a point I'm trying to make. They tend to find one thing wrong and beat it to death.

They were a little sloppy in covering the interior. It happens when you are together for a short time. I would expect improvement in the following games.

I certainly don't think it's an indication of a problem with the team or with Dolson.

I think Geno might have an idea on Dolson's capability and won't use one game to judge her.

 

[UConnCat]

Where's Cat? She has great perspective on these things, and I'd like to hear what she has to say....

Here I am. Just home from work and I'm too tired to read the entire thread but if the choice is between Lavender and Dolson and if I understand the role to be filled on the team I'd take Dolson. Full disclosure, I am not a fan of Lavender's and never have been. I think she plays soft. She's done better as a pro than I expected but considering the role needed on Team USA, I'd take Dolson as a bigger body, better (and harder) screener and better passer. Having said all that, I'd hope neither would need to play significant minutes much like Jayne Appel didn't play much in Prague in 2010.

 

[JoePgh]

I think anyone who honestly viewed the Canada game would accept the proposition that Stef cannot effectively guard a somewhat smaller but faster forward -- a player like Nneka or Dupree on the opposing team. If Nneka played against Stef, she would get to the basket pretty easily, as Canada's post did.

But Stef should be effective against players like Cambage: wide bodies who are big, strong and physical but not particularly fast or quick. Many European centers are of that stripe.

But the other side of the coin is offense. There, Stef can screen and pass probably better than anyone else the USA team, including Tina. I haven't seen a lot of Lavender, but those skills were not in evidence in the two games that I watched in the last week.

So if the opponent has a smaller, faster center as Canada did, then either Stef stays on the bench and Geno lets Stewie, Dupree, or Nneka guard their bigs, or USA plays a zone to protect Stef from having to guard those players 1-on-1. If their center is of the Mack truck variety, then Stef can play defense as well as anyone -- and get past that player on offense.

 

[baggerbob]

All I know is is give my right arm to see Sue, Maya, DT, Stewie, and Tina, on the court at the same time. That's the all-time UConn starting five once Breanna is done!

That lineup would have Cambage in foul trouble early, unless she has gotten a lot Quicker then 2 years ago in the WNBA.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Nope, I watched Lavender for 4 years in the Big 10 and was sadly disappointed by her performance every time. BTW, it isn't Steph. You clearly were watching the wrong player if she was called Steph.

Wow really...what Jantel Lavender were you watching lol....Ohio State's All time leading scorer and the Big Ten's all time leading rebounder, that Jantel Lavender? Or the Jantel Lavender that set a record for most consecutive double digit scoring games? Come on Mr Ice Bear...Ms Lavender was something serious in college, despite winning any Championships!

 

[dtbtbtb]

Just found out that the games will be shown on TV (NBA TV chanel 1632) starting on 9/27

 

[RadyLady]

Just found out that the games will be shown on TV (NBA TV chanel 1632) starting on 9/27

Someone posted earlier that the games this weekend will be shown on espn3. Sometimes espn3 doesn't show the offering until just as it starts so I'm going to hold off saying probably wrong until tomorrow when I look for it and it's not there at tip off.

 

[hoophuskee]

I try to never use what the announcers say, especially Peck,

We can agree to disagree here doggyd.

1—I’ll use any announcer if I think he or she is right.

2—I value Peck’s opinion on things. It’s easy to pick apart anyone. Sometimes I disagree sure. In fact many times I often disagree with Rebecca but love her to death. I used to despise Debbie Antonelli – no longer I like her a lot. If I think any or all are right I’ll use their opinion over another and reference it.

3—Peck has predicted the National Team what I did to some extent and vive-versa so in a small way I am seeing what she is seeing.

to help back a point I'm trying to make. They tend to find one thing wrong and beat it to death.

Beat it to death imo is irrelevant with the discussion I was having. IMO I agreed with what she was saying. The inside defense was their worst aspect maybe other than shooting. So it doesn’t matter how many times she says it. For my argument I agreed with it.


They were a little sloppy in covering the interior.

What you call “a little sloppy” I call “no good” in comparison to their talent.

It happens when you are together for a short time. I would expect improvement in the following games.

Okay but how does that change what I saw and what Peck said needs to be worked on?

I certainly don't think it's an indication of a problem with the team or with Dolson.

I’m not sure what you’re point is here. They won’t lose imo and they will blow everyone out. For player number 12 we can pick the worst player in the WNBA and we’ll still probably blow every team out. So just to baseline our issue of “problem with the team.” I agree as they play more together there won’t be a “problem” or the problem will be masked.

Anyhow, we’ve always heard great coaches look at points of improvement. IMO I think Peck a former coach nailed a position that needs improvement. And I believe Geno will focus on. i.e “the worst posts in America.”


I think Geno might have an idea on Dolson's capability and won't use one game to judge her.

Sure and as I stated before-- practices will be important of which I and everyone else can’t see. But as I also referenced before of her play in Washington – also stating that pro ball is a lot different than college. So my opinion is much more aligned with Peck.In addition, I believe what I saw with Washington is more of value than other posters referencing/valuing her college days more than I would.

In summary, I know what I saw and it wasn’t good defense. I know the little I saw in Washington as well- she needs to keep working of which I expect she will. Of what I saw in WNBA of Lavendar this year – imo she’s just better plus the references of her good play in overseas . I predict SD will surpass JL one day soon but I don’t’ see it yet.

On these posts I can’t reference every play otherwise I’d write a novel. Your reference “one game” it’s just one point of argument I had made. As for SD as stated- imo her attributes are size, passing and familiarity with Geno/UCONN system and any former UCONN connection players. I didn’t see the impact on defense with Washington, nor at this past exhibition game. You disagree? Why? I wasn’t referencing just Canada.

 

[doggydaddy]

I try to never use what the announcers say, especially Peck,

We can agree to disagree here doggyd.

1—I’ll use any announcer if I think he or she is right.

Right. You will use an announcers opinion to back your point if it agrees with you. Makes sense, but it doesn't make either of you right. Especially when it's Peck.

2—I value Peck’s opinion on things. It’s easy to pick apart anyone. Sometimes I disagree sure. In fact many times I often disagree with Rebecca but love her to death. I used to despise Debbie Antonelli – no longer I like her a lot. If I think any or all are right I’ll use their opinion over another and reference it.

We can agree to disagree here. I think Peck is a blithering idiot. Yeah, maybe that is a little harsh, but she either states the obvious over and over or can't get out a sentence that makes any sense. And most announcers know no more than the posters here. So their opinions to me are just noise trying to make the game more interesting. Even they don't believe what they say half the time.

3—Peck has predicted the National Team what I did to some extent and vive-versa so in a small way I am seeing what she is seeing.

Yes, you see what she is saying that she is seeing. I'm saying that doesn't make it any more valid.

to help back a point I'm trying to make. They tend to find one thing wrong and beat it to death.

Beat it to death imo is irrelevant with the discussion I was having. IMO I agreed with what she was saying. The inside defense was their worst aspect maybe other than shooting. So it doesn’t matter how many times she says it. For my argument I agreed with it.

I would have to disagree that it's irrelevant to the discussion. When an announcer harps on the say idea over and over, it gets overplayed and people tend to overstate the issue. Saying you agreed with Peck only hurts your argument.

They were a little sloppy in covering the interior.

What you call “a little sloppy” I call “no good” in comparison to their talent.

Ok, let's go with "no good" then. It was still overstated by Peck.

It happens when you are together for a short time. I would expect improvement in the following games.

Okay but how does that change what I saw and what Peck said needs to be worked on?

It doesn't change what you saw. As I said before, it's one game. They hadn't practiced much and Canada took advantage of it. I think it's a one game problem. You appear to think it's a team weakness.

I certainly don't think it's an indication of a problem with the team or with Dolson.

I’m not sure what you’re point is here. They won’t lose imo and they will blow everyone out. For player number 12 we can pick the worst player in the WNBA and we’ll still probably blow every team out. So just to baseline our issue of “problem with the team.” I agree as they play more together there won’t be a “problem” or the problem will be masked.

My point is it was one poor defensive interior performance, not a weakness in the team. You seem to think it's a Dolson problem. She only played 8 minutes in that game.

Anyhow, we’ve always heard great coaches look at points of improvement. IMO I think Peck a former coach nailed a position that needs improvement. And I believe Geno will focus on. i.e “the worst posts in America.”

She nailed a position that needs improvement based on their first exhibition game. Short sighted and "announcer speak" in my opinion.

I think Geno might have an idea on Dolson's capability and won't use one game to judge her.

Sure and as I stated before-- practices will be important of which I and everyone else can’t see. But as I also referenced before of her play in Washington – also stating that pro ball is a lot different than college. So my opinion is much more aligned with Peck.In addition, I believe what I saw with Washington is more of value than other posters referencing/valuing her college days more than I would.

I'll say it one more time. Peck is not helping you here, IMO. I don't find her to be insightful or very intelligent. Yes, pro ball is different. But I have read several reviews of Dolson's rookie season and I didn't see any talking about her weak post defense. I saw several of her games this season. Yes, at times she got lost out there and at times she had to cover quicker players. But I think you and Peck are overstating the problem.

In summary, I know what I saw and it wasn’t good defense. I know the little I saw in Washington as well- she needs to keep working of which I expect she will. Of what I saw in WNBA of Lavendar this year – imo she’s just better plus the references of her good play in overseas . I predict SD will surpass JL one day soon but I don’t’ see it yet.

You didn't see the first half and you say you saw little in Washington yet you seem to know how she plays defense in totality. I just think you need more info. She only played a few minutes.

On these posts I can’t reference every play otherwise I’d write a novel. Your reference “one game” it’s just one point of argument I had made. As for SD as stated- imo her attributes are size, passing and familiarity with Geno/UCONN system and any former UCONN connection players. I didn’t see the impact on defense with Washington, nor at this past exhibition game. You disagree? Why? I wasn’t referencing just Canada.

Again, she played only 7 minutes. I don't see how it's fair to make a judgement on her defensive abilities based on that small sampling. And you said you only say "little" Washington games. Another small sampling. And while "one game" was not your only point, your posts are around 90 about that game. It was your main point.

I also watched a few Washington games. Maybe I saw the 3 games where she blocked 4 shots, or the several excellent rebounding games.

I guess my main point is that Dolson will not be selected or cut based on this one 7 minute stint in an exhibition game, but over practices and the next several games in totality and that the issues of defense in the interior by Dolson will be long forgotten.



Thanks a a fun debate and keeping it that way.

 

[Kibitzer]

This debate (DD vs. HH) lends credence to the notion that The Boneyard Never Sleeps!

(It's 5:58 a.m. now, so where is Daddy Choc?)